Resolving the Apparent Infield Logjam

[stringer bell]

The Twins head into 2024 with an apparent "good problem" on the horizon. Brooks Lee is nearly ready to step into the majors as a regular infielder. The Twins already have Edouard Julien penciled in as their regular second baseman, Carlos Correa as their shortstop on the second year of a six-year guaranteed no-trade contract and Royce Lewis at third base after a shortened (but monster) rookie season.

Lee has played shortstop in college and as a pro with a few games at third base. He looks the part of a major league SS, but is projected to be an excellent third baseman if a position switch was made. Additionally, there is little doubt that he'd be able to handle second base, as well. 

Julien is a hitter first, but made tangible strides on defense last year for the Twins. He did play a couple of games at first base in 2023 and acquitted himself satisfactorily. Correa is the veteran at 29, he previously won a Platinum Glove as the top defender in baseball and was a finalist for a Gold Glove last year. Lewis was also a shortstop, now switched to third base. His defense there was satisfactory last year and he has played some outfield in the minors and Arizona Fall League. Royce suffered his second ACL tear while playing in center field for the Twins in 2022, his only major league game at that position.

How do the Twins resolve this situation? Could one of the younger guys be traded? Does someone switch positions? Could all four be regulars by using one as a DH? Lots of possible answers! On the poll, I'll list "none of the above" as an answer--please give your solution in the thread if you choose that answer. Thanks!

[Original_JB]

With the number of injuries plaguing this team the last few years, at this point, I wait until the logjam actually appears before I spend too much time worrying about it. Unless magically, a trade opportunity arises where we're picking up a frontline pitcher and the other team wants an infielder, and even then, worry about that if/when it happens.

[tony&rodney]

Perhaps the title perfectly describes why nothing will be done for several months at least. The logjam is only apparent at this time as you state.

Is Kirilloff healthy enough to play on a regular basis? If he is then 1B is set for quite some time because that swing will play in any lineup.

Does Julien continue with his strengths at the plate while making additional strides as a fielder? If so, 2nd is set.

Will Lewis blossom as all hope and expect? If so, 3rd looks set.

Can Wallner make the needed adjustments to be a full time regular? If so, he is a lock in the lineup.

Can all of these players avoid injuries? The depth is solid now with Farmer, Castro, Martin, and others ready to play.

I believe Brooks Lee will be a very good MLB player. How will he do early this year in AAA?

It seems to me that the Twins have a full year to see how each of their young players develops before they need to make any decisions on moving someone to another position or making a guy available in a trade. They certainly had conversations about all of these players with other clubs during the offseason and decided to hold for now. 

Got to know when to hold em.

 

[Jocko87]

I'm a none of the above, this is one of those 6 for 4 things that will sort itself out.  Ultimately it needs to be Lewis, Correa and Lee in some order at the infield skill positions. AK, Julien, Miranda will get most of their time between 1B, DH and left field.  I'm not excited about Julien at 1B anymore than 2B, I'm putting him in left field if everyone is full strength.

The logjam is at a manageable level with Polo gone and we are a full season away from Lee being a 140 game written in pen solution.  

I've been on the trade Julien square out of these options but I'd like to see him win a batting title to maximize his value first.  (mostly kidding) I've somewhat shifted the AK as the trade candidate of the group but if he's healthy I'd get off that quickly.

[nicksaviking]

#1 if you remove Lewis from that list. As much as I like the other two, he's clearly in a different class of player. The other two should still be excellent equity to headline a trade.

And I love Julien, I'm not dismissing how talented he and Lee are.

[Doctor Gast]

Julien should have been moved to 1B or traded for a post-season SP before trading Polanco. Now we are stuck with him at 2B (until Lee is ready & he shouldn't be rushed) because we have yet to have an INF logjam. When Lee is ready we'll have our INF cemented. It'd be too late to trade Julien for a postseason SP so our only option is to move Julien where he belongs to 1B/ DH.

[nicksaviking]

3 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

Julien should have been moved to 1B or traded before trading Polanco. Now we are stuck with him at 2B (until Lee is ready & he shouldn't be rushed) because we have yet to have a logjam. When Lee is ready we'll have our INF cemented. It'd be too late to trade Julien for a postseason SP so our only option is to move Julien where he belongs to 1B/ DH.

I'm fine moving Julien if the Twins get the top arm I want, but presuming Lee will ever be better than what Julien was last year is setting Lee up for disappointment. No prospect in the history of the game has promised to cement his spot in the starting lineup. He should be good, but Julien already has proven he is really, really good. 

[tony&rodney]

None of Kirilloff, Julien, Lewis, or Wallner have even one year at the MLB level. Lee (Happy Birthday to him) has just 168 PA at AAA. We are getting way ahead of ourselves here. Does anyone remember a player by the name of Jose Miranda? 

[Nashvilletwin]

When the time comes, and it’s coming this year because Lee is going to make it happen, there is no log jam.  Plain and simple.

We have five positions for seven players. The five positions are: 1B, 2B, 3B, SS and DH.  The seven players, this season, are: Correa, Lewis, Lee, Julien, Kiriloff, Farmer and Santana.

Let’s examine the playing options of each player (primary first and then secondary)

Correa - SS, DH (LH)
Lewis - 3B, SS, 2B, DH (LH)
Lee - 2B, SS, 3B, DH (RH, LH). 
Julien - 2B, 1B, DH (RH). 
Kiriloff - 1B, COF, DH (RH). 
Farmer - Defensive substitute, full time injury replacement SS, 3B, 2B. 
Santana - 1B, defensive substitute, DH (RH, LH)

Assumption: At least one Twins position player (excluding C) across the entire lineup is on the IL 80% of all games post May 1.

Solution: Five of those IF players start every game with each one getting a day off every seven games or so depending on need and matchups. Farmer plays as a late inning sub unless one of CC, Lewis, or Lee is on the IL. Santana, Julien, and Kiriloff primarily rotate 1B, DH, and PH duties with Julien rotating into 2B when Lee is having an off day or Lee is filling in for CC or Lewis. Kiriloff can be the 5th OF if need be, while Martin and Larnach act as the swing pieces that move back and fourth with St. Paul to keep the number of non C position players on the active roster at 11 (when no one is on the IL).

If things really get tight and/or (God forbid) we are out of contention, one or two of Farmer, Santana, Kepler or Kiriloff (because Severino is ready) gets moved at the deadline.

Easy peasy.  Now, let’s get everyone playing well and make the above happen.
 

[Cory Engelhardt]

They have a logjam (if you want to call it that) because they have a number of talented players for specific roles. That's a good thing.

Injuries have always been a thing. It'll get worked out. When someone gets hurt, we have depth/quality behind them.

I hope/anticipate they will still make a trade. I don't anticipate Lewis being traded anywhere. 

The DH spot is always still available.

 

Basically, I wouldn't worry about this on 2/14/24. Things have a way of working themselves out.

 

[chpettit19]

If we're talking about right now (that's how I read things based on the possible answers) the answer is pretty simple to me, put Lee in AAA until he shows he has mastered that level. There's no logjam yet. Lee hasn't shown he's a major league player. 

If they all perform well this year at the MLB level and show that they deserve everyday roles to start 2025 it'll depend on a lot of other things, but using the DH to rotate them through, moving Julien to 1B (depending on Kirilloff and Miranda), and moving Lewis to the OF would all be possibilities for me.

[nicksaviking]

33 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

When the time comes, and it’s coming this year because Lee is going to make it happen, there is no log jam.  Plain and simple.

We have five positions for seven players. The five positions are: 1B, 2B, 3B, SS and DH.  The seven players, this season, are: Correa, Lewis, Lee, Julien, Kiriloff, Farmer and Santana.

Let’s examine the playing options of each player (primary first and then secondary)

Correa - SS, DH (LH)
Lewis - 3B, SS, 2B, DH (LH)
Lee - 2B, SS, 3B, DH (RH, LH). 
Julien - 2B, 1B, DH (RH). 
Kiriloff - 1B, COF, DH (RH). 
Farmer - Defensive substitute, full time injury replacement SS, 3B, 2B. 
Santana - 1B, defensive substitute, DH (RH, LH)

Assumption: At least one Twins position player (excluding C) across the entire lineup is on the IL 80% of all games post May 1.

Solution: Five of those IF players start every game with each one getting a day off every seven games or so depending on need and matchups. Farmer plays as a late inning sub unless one of CC, Lewis, or Lee is on the IL. Santana, Julien, and Kiriloff primarily rotate 1B, DH, and PH duties with Julien rotating into 2B when Lee is having an off day or Lee is filling in for CC or Lewis. Kiriloff can be the 5th OF if need be, while Martin and Larnach act as the swing pieces that move back and fourth with St. Paul to keep the number of non C position players on the active roster at 11 (when no one is on the IL).

If things really get tight and/or (God forbid) we are out of contention, one or two of Farmer, Santana, Kepler or Kiriloff (because Severino is ready) gets moved at the deadline.

Easy peasy.  Now, let’s get everyone playing well and make the above happen.
 

I think if you have to play a shell game with your defensive positioning to fit everyone in, and you still have plenty of young guys behind them in AA and AAA, it's probably prudent to turn some of that offensive equity into help for the pitching staff.

[Mike Sixel]

48 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

When the time comes, and it’s coming this year because Lee is going to make it happen, there is no log jam.  Plain and simple.

We have five positions for seven players. The five positions are: 1B, 2B, 3B, SS and DH.  The seven players, this season, are: Correa, Lewis, Lee, Julien, Kiriloff, Farmer and Santana.

Let’s examine the playing options of each player (primary first and then secondary)

Correa - SS, DH (LH)
Lewis - 3B, SS, 2B, DH (LH)
Lee - 2B, SS, 3B, DH (RH, LH). 
Julien - 2B, 1B, DH (RH). 
Kiriloff - 1B, COF, DH (RH). 
Farmer - Defensive substitute, full time injury replacement SS, 3B, 2B. 
Santana - 1B, defensive substitute, DH (RH, LH)

Assumption: At least one Twins position player (excluding C) across the entire lineup is on the IL 80% of all games post May 1.

Solution: Five of those IF players start every game with each one getting a day off every seven games or so depending on need and matchups. Farmer plays as a late inning sub unless one of CC, Lewis, or Lee is on the IL. Santana, Julien, and Kiriloff primarily rotate 1B, DH, and PH duties with Julien rotating into 2B when Lee is having an off day or Lee is filling in for CC or Lewis. Kiriloff can be the 5th OF if need be, while Martin and Larnach act as the swing pieces that move back and fourth with St. Paul to keep the number of non C position players on the active roster at 11 (when no one is on the IL).

If things really get tight and/or (God forbid) we are out of contention, one or two of Farmer, Santana, Kepler or Kiriloff (because Severino is ready) gets moved at the deadline.

Easy peasy.  Now, let’s get everyone playing well and make the above happen.
 

Buxton will get some DH time too, even if he is healthy, I'd guess. 

[Doctor Gast]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

I'm fine moving Julien if the Twins get the top arm I want, but presuming Lee will ever be better than what Julien was last year is setting Lee up for disappointment. No prospect in the history of the game has promised to cement his spot in the starting lineup. He should be good, but Julien already has proven he is really, really good. 

I've been a fan of Julien Iong before most have ever heard of him. At the beginning of the '23 season, I advocated to bring him up to play 1B, while Kiriloff was out because I knew his bat was good & his glove was good enough to play 1B.  I love his bat & he belongs in this lineup. But I'm not talking about the lineup, I'm talking about 2B. Julien's glove is below par at 2B.  Cement takes time to set up but by its makeup, you know it will. Maybe Lee's bat won't be as good as Julien's when he debuts (but it could) but there is no doubt that his glove would be better. I'm also not inclined to include Julien in a trade that doesn't include a postseason SP

[nicksaviking]

47 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

I've been a fan of Julien Iong before most have ever heard of him. At the beginning of the '23 season, I advocated to bring him up to play 1B, while Kiriloff was out because I knew his bat was good & his glove was good enough to play 1B.  I love his bat & he belongs in this lineup. But I'm not talking about the lineup, I'm talking about 2B. Julien's glove is below par at 2B.  Cement takes time to set up but by its makeup, you know it will. Maybe Lee's bat won't be as good as Julien's when he debuts (but it could) but there is no doubt that his glove would be better. I'm also not inclined to include Julien in a trade that doesn't include a postseason SP

That is the only thing the Twins should be looking for at this point.

[tony&rodney]

1 hour ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

 

I hope/anticipate they will still make a trade. I don't anticipate Lewis being traded anywhere. 

I agree that Lewis will not be traded. Lewis would be the name in a big trade. I don't think the Twins should trade Lewis. This is why the Twins do not have either Kirby or Gilbert right now. They are not willing to trade Lewis. I agree with that, although I have hesitated and weighed the pros and cons many times.

The Twins have one pitcher that is in their rotation who was developed in the system, Bailey Ober. It is now time to completely remove the limitations from Louie Varland. He belongs in the rotation. Furthermore, i believe he is a key to the staff. Why? Because Varland has stamina and can deliver 180 innings of 4.00 - 4.50 pitching. None of the others considered for the back of the rotation can deliver that production. Varland is a big reason I would not trade Royce Lewis for George Kirby. While Varland will not come close to being the ace that Kirby is, having Lewis at third base along with Varland's more than decent pitching for a #4 starter makes the Twins a better team.

[tony&rodney]

56 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

I've been a fan of Julien Iong before most have ever heard of him.

Just curious - did you see him play when he was in high school or later when he played for Auburn?

[LA Vikes Fan]

This "logjam" may be much more theoretical than real at the current time. We are well stocked at the MLB level if you assume that Kirilloff, Lewis and Julien remain healthy and that none suffers a sophomore slump. We need to keep in mind with Julien in particular that while he hit well in June and July, he had a .638 OPS in August and a low batting average in September, albeit with a .838 OPS because he walked a lot. Kirilloff has not consistently hit in hit MLB ABs, potentially but not assuredly due to injury. Regression is a real possibility here for both or they may settle in at an average or below level. Lewis is less likely to regress based on past experience but has had serious injury risk. One injury or one regression and all of a sudden Brooks Lee is in the majors with a clear path to playing time.

Speaking of Brooks Lee, he has not yet shown that he can hit AAA pitching at a dominant level in a hitter friendly league, much less that he can hit MLB pitching. He had a .841 OPS in AA, but only a .731 OPS in AAA last year. He hit under .200 in spring training last year where he saw some fringe level major-league pitching. I agree that the odds are good he will be an above average major league hitter as he develops someday, but the evidence suggests that today is not yet that day. He still needs some time in AAA.

I think the Front Office is playing this the right way. This is the year to find out if Julien can be your regular second baseman, Lewis your regular third baseman, and Kirilloff your regular first baseman. You bring in experienced backups like Santana and Farmer so you don't have a huge drop-off if in fact one of those three either gets hurt or can't handle the job. In the interim, Lee can develop a AAA and be ready by roughly midseason. If all three are playing well and looking like long term mainstays by midseason AND Lee is tearing up AAA, THEN you have a logjam that gives you some trading flexibility for that number two starter we might need in the playoffs or you move one to the OF. The chances of all four players working out that way, not to mention Wallner needing to cement himself as an everyday MLB player, are not real high. It would be great if they do and then you can tackle the logjam but let's make sure it develops before we make any moves.

[jorgenswest]

I need the option that the logjam is not apparent to me yet.

I also think they would be wise to prepare Lewis for the outfield. That is less due a perceived infield log jam but rather a need for more logs in the outfield.

[tony&rodney]

9 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

I need the option that the logjam is not apparent to me yet.

I also think they would be wise to prepare Lewis for the outfield. That is less due a perceived infield log jam but rather a need for more logs in the outfield.

I think that none of the above may be your initial choice. However, perhaps you want Lewis in the outfield, so there - click that box.

I chose none of the above because the logjam is not apparent yet.

[Doctor Gast]

1 hour ago, tony&rodney said:

Just curious - did you see him play when he was in high school or later when he played for Auburn?

Long time are not the right words, beginning of '22

[Linus]

8 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

Julien should have been moved to 1B or traded for a post-season SP before trading Polanco. Now we are stuck with him at 2B (until Lee is ready & he shouldn't be rushed) because we have yet to have an INF logjam. When Lee is ready we'll have our INF cemented. It'd be too late to trade Julien for a postseason SP so our only option is to move Julien where he belongs to 1B/ DH.

I also think Julien should have been the one traded. He has great value right now. Combined with a prospect we could have received a good controllable pitcher. Polo could handle second and be traded in the off season after Lee shows he is ready for the bigs. Club would be stronger all around. 

[JD-TWINS]

11 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Perhaps the title perfectly describes why nothing will be done for several months at least. The logjam is only apparent at this time as you state.

Is Kirilloff healthy enough to play on a regular basis? If he is then 1B is set for quite some time because that swing will play in any lineup.

Does Julien continue with his strengths at the plate while making additional strides as a fielder? If so, 2nd is set.

Will Lewis blossom as all hope and expect? If so, 3rd looks set.

Can Wallner make the needed adjustments to be a full time regular? If so, he is a lock in the lineup.

Can all of these players avoid injuries? The depth is solid now with Farmer, Castro, Martin, and others ready to play.

I believe Brooks Lee will be a very good MLB player. How will he do early this year in AAA?

It seems to me that the Twins have a full year to see how each of their young players develops before they need to make any decisions on moving someone to another position or making a guy available in a trade. They certainly had conversations about all of these players with other clubs during the offseason and decided to hold for now. 

Got to know when to hold em.

 

So, IMO, Lee is in St Paul until his bat forces him across the river (hopefully not an injury!) ………. June - July - August. The Team toys with things the remainder of the season to see if they can get all the bats in the line-up. Seems to me Kirilloff is at 1B for a few years - Julien, likewise is principally at 2B - Lee is the best long-term guy at 3B - CC is at SS for 2-3 more years minimum. Lewis is plenty good enough athlete to float defensively ……also good enough to play LF without getting hurt.

2025: Lewis in LF for 80 games - DH for 30 games - 1B for 30 games. Wallner in RF……maybe Larnach or Rodriguez in LF and RF depth…………..maybe Lewis finds a home at 1B & Kirilloff goes back to LF?

‘25 line-up: Julien - Lee - Kirilloff - Lewis - Buxton - Correa - Wallner - Jeffers - numerous DH options, maybe even Miranda after a good season in ‘24? ……..on paper, in February ‘24, this looks like a September/October ’24 line-up

[Riverbrian]

#1. Even if Polanco was still on the team... there wouldn't be a log jam. Even if you substitute Brooks Lee for Polanco... there still isn't a log jam. I have never seen a log jam... if I ever see a log jam... Clear your schedule for playoff baseball in October because the Twins would be bullet proof and log jams are good things. If you ever have a log jam... it's not a problem... it's a good thing. Here is how you handle a log jam. Just remove the word BENCH from your head, quit thinking about who is on the BENCH, quit saying the word BENCH, let the manager figure out how to get all of these wonderful players into the lineup and clear your schedule for playoff baseball because in order to have a log jam... all the logs have to be kicking rear end to make the manager have to think about who should be in the lineup and if you have 6 players kicking rear end for 5 positions (Yeah 5... we have the DH Spot to work with)... EVERYBODY WILL PLAY and EVERYONE WILL PERFORM so it doesn't matter who is in the lineup. You have a log jam it's all good. .

If the miracle actually occurs that all 6 players stay healthy for 162 games and somehow someway all 6 players perform at all star level. Just do the math and get a good night sleep free from log jam worry. Here's the math for you: 5 Spots x 162 games / 6 players = 135 games. Oh No... Carlos Correa only plays 135 games... what a travesty. Well... it doesn't matter if Correa only plays 135 games because Mr. Farmer is playing just as well so whoever Rocco puts in the lineup in June vs the Kansas City Royals is going to be a great player. You got a great player in the field and a great player resting. WHAT'S the PROBLEM?  

#2. Brooks Lee is NOT HERE YET. Yes his rise through the system has been impressive. Yes he is the 18th ranked prospect in MLB. I will bet on Brooks Lee becoming a quality Twin in the future but it's important to note that Brooks Lee is NOT HERE YET. He has 706 Plate Appearances total in the Minors to the tune of an .814 OPS. He has spent 168 of those Plate Appearances at the AAA Level to the tune of a .237 BA and .731 OPS. Can we just please for the love of God... Let him show he can hit at AAA before we starting clearing logs out of the way for him and please please keep in mind two very important points. 

#2A. Brooks doesn't need to be placed on the 40 man roster until December of 2025. If you call him up early you will start his clock early and he will be a free agent early. You are rushing him up to the big leagues while he as a .237 BA and .731 OPS in 168 AB's.  

#2B. IF YOU HAVE A LOG JAM... Why do you have to call up BROOKS LEE? Correa, Lewis, Julien, Kirilloff, Santana and Farmer are all healthy and getting the job done. You can argue that they may be getting the job done but Brooks Lee is going to be better. Well if Brooks Lee is better... then you don't have a log jam... you have a player performing better than someone else and that means that LOGS are not JAMMED because the player who is not as good doesn't play as much. This is so easily solved.  

#3. As of right now... we don't have a DH. There is no Nelson Cruz on the roster and Buxton is telling the world that he will be playing CF. This will allow the team to rotate players through the DH position and that is good because we have the depth to rotate logs in this so called jam through the position and therefore additional AB's.  

#4. Kirilloff can play OF and so could Lewis. If Lewis and his agent are insistent on every day at 3B... I'd tell him tough cookies. That isn't helping the team... that's handicapping a manager in regards to putting the best lineup in the field. I'd simply point at Mookie Betts in Dodger Blue and tell him that Mookie Betts plays where ever the team needs him to play. I'd tell him that it's good for him because being capable in multiple positions will increase the number of teams bidding for his services when he reaches free agency. Instead of just the teams looking for a 3B driving up the price... teams looking for a SS, 2B and OF will also be in play and more teams interested will drive up the price and he will get paid more. Locking yourself into a single position isn't good business. Players can play multiple positions. If you don't think so... you haven't been watching players around the league move from position to position just like water flows into low spots on the ground. Flexibility is a by-product of depth or a LOG JAM. There are 8 spots outside of catcher and 11 positions players... there is not a back up for every position. Players have to be flexible if THEY WANT PLAYING TIME. If your team does not have flexibility it is because you don't have a log jam. 

#5. Julien did not face left handers last year. Julien was pinch hit for against left handers entering the game in the 5th inning.  Don't get me wrong... I am a big fan of Julien and I absolutely hated that Julien wasn't allowed to face left handers last year.  Yet... we sit here on February 15th, 2024 and there is a large group of people who seem to forget that Julien did not face lefthanders last year. I know they have forgotten this and I know that they don't seem to think it matters because they were willing to say goodbye to Polanco over log jam concerns and have Julien ready to go for 162 games.

#5A. If it turns out that Julien can't hit lefthanders and he isn't picking it up over time. Guess what... you will have to pour those poor stats against left handers into his overall stats. That .839 OPS will no longer be an .839 OPS when you add 150 AB's of a .446 OPS against left handers to his totals. That OPS is going to plummet to the point where some of our posters are going to wonder what happened to Julien. 

#6. Players get hurt. They get hurt every year without fail. They get hurt for 10 day stints... they get hurt for month stints... they get hurt for entire seasons.  

Thank You for your time. I'll sit back and wait for the next LOG JAM comment on Twins Daily which is sure to come in the near future.    

 

[ashbury]

Cross the bridge when you actually come to it.

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, ashbury said:

Cross the bridge when you actually come to it.

[Mike Sixel]

16 hours ago, Linus said:

I also think Julien should have been the one traded. He has great value right now. Combined with a prospect we could have received a good controllable pitcher. Polo could handle second and be traded in the off season after Lee shows he is ready for the bigs. Club would be stronger all around. 

Which good SP is available, from a team needing immediate help at 2B, that would be traded? Seattle isn't dealing their good SP..... Who else is out there that we are so sure they could just trade a potential star hitter with 5 years of control and get value in return?

[chpettit19]

21 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Which good SP is available, from a team needing immediate help at 2B, that would be traded? Seattle isn't dealing their good SP..... Who else is out there that we are so sure they could just trade a potential star hitter with 5 years of control and get value in return?

Jesus Lazardo was almost traded for Vinnie Pasquantino. Arraez and Julien have both played 1B. Seems like that'd be a possibility.

We don't know Seattle wouldn't have traded their pitching for Julien + prospect. We know they wouldn't trade them for Polanco. Everyone is available if you offer enough. Of course Dipoto is going to say he's not trading his young pitching. What else would he say?

The question is what you define as good value, and how important is the controllability factor to you. Corbin Burnes could've been had for Julien + prospect since Julien is likely more valuable than either Ortiz or Hall, and the Twins could've thrown in their own Comp pick if they wanted. I bet Chicago would love to have Julien + prospect in exchange for Cease. There are trades to be made if you're willing to pay the prices. The Twins weren't/aren't. There's a difference between something not being possible and the Twins not being willing to do it.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, chpettit19 said:

Jesus Lazardo was almost traded for Vinnie Pasquantino. Arraez and Julien have both played 1B. Seems like that'd be a possibility.

We don't know Seattle wouldn't have traded their pitching for Julien + prospect. We know they wouldn't trade them for Polanco. Everyone is available if you offer enough. Of course Dipoto is going to say he's not trading his young pitching. What else would he say?

The question is what you define as good value, and how important is the controllability factor to you. Corbin Burnes could've been had for Julien + prospect since Julien is likely more valuable than either Ortiz or Hall, and the Twins could've thrown in their own Comp pick if they wanted. I bet Chicago would love to have Julien + prospect in exchange for Cease. There are trades to be made if you're willing to pay the prices. The Twins weren't/aren't. There's a difference between something not being possible and the Twins not being willing to do it.

You're suggesting trading 5 years of Julien and more for 1 year of Burnes? Yikes. Sure, the Brewers say yes to that all day, but no way the TWins should have done that. No way.

[chpettit19]

Just now, Mike Sixel said:

You're suggesting trading 5 years of Julien and more for 1 year of Burnes? Yikes. Sure, the Brewers say yes to that all day, but no way the TWins should have done that. No way.

I'm saying it was/is possible to get pitching for Julien. Each person just has to determine what they feel is an appropriate return. That's what the Twins have to do. The Orioles felt they had an "infield logjam" so they traded 6 years of one of their infielders and more for 1 year of Burnes. Yikes, I guess.