Buxton at 1B?

[snellman]

I know it sounds like a very dumb question and a very dumb idea, but hear me out.  Buxton did not play a single out in the field last year.  He also just underwent a 2nd knee surgery and it sounds like the knee may be a chronic issue.  Kirilloff is going to be having shoulder surgery and while the team seems fairly confident he will play, the article posted here definitely raises some questions.  Yes, Buxton's biggest weapon in the field is his ability to cover ground, but who knows if that will ever come back.  He has the bat to play the prototypical 1B and I am assuming that would be easier on his knee that any OF position.  It could possibly get him in the field more and free up the DH spot.  

Thoughts?

[Craig Arko]

Anything is possible.

[DJL44]

I don't think it's a dumb idea. Many players have shifted to 1B as they get older and more injury prone. He's tall and can catch the ball. Not sure how well he will do with grounders but my guess is he will do at least as well as Kirilloff at the position.

[Irishman]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

I don't think it's a dumb idea. Many players have shifted to 1B as they get older and more injury prone. He's tall and can catch the ball. Not sure how well he will do with grounders but my guess is he will do at least as well as Kirilloff at the position.

I think Rod Carew was 1st baseman after Harmon Killebrew signed with KC Royals.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

First base is not the worst idea. However, Buxton needs to want that, and unfortunately no one really knows what Buxton wants except Buxton, and probably not even him. But since he had this new procedure we can wait until he is cleared from that, and give him the offseason to think about it and heal. 

I also think Julien is an internal candidate for first base worth trying out. 

[tony&rodney]

One potential issue (there are several) is that generally first basemen do a fair amount of long stretches. BB has had problems with hamstrings as well as the knee injuries.

We saw Buxton change his swing to alleviate the stress on his legs. The results don't play imho. First Buxton needs to get completely healthy and then he needs to rebuild his swing.

I agree that all options will be considered: 1B, OF, and DH. 

[Fatbat]

He has to play somewhere in the field. DH did not work out at all. I’m holding out hope the CF is still his spot but 1B isn’t a horrible idea. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

18 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

We saw Buxton change his swing to alleviate the stress on his legs.

See, that’s what I wondered about Royce Lewis when Lewis went back into the field for Game 3 and made those terrible swings, but I was told ‘No’ that Lewis’s legs were fine. I could only follow that game online at work anyway.

I will assume Baldelli and coaches watched Buxton swing prior to putting him into Game 4, but that their observation tools or their ‘eye test’ to evaluate his swings and judge him fit for game duty failed them. For his preparation, I wonder if Buxton faced live throwers throwing all out, or just BP throwers, or the even just the pitching machine. There is so much to dig into here, so many questions. If people aren’t curious about this kind of stuff, it’s going to manifest again somehow, and will preclude the Twins from making better decisions or getting any better on the field, or beating a solid team like Houston in the postseason and going any further.

Thank you for your contributions to this site!

[RpR]

3 hours ago, snellman said:

I know it sounds like a very dumb question and a very dumb idea, but hear me out.  Buxton did not play a single out in the field last year.  He also just underwent a 2nd knee surgery and it sounds like the knee may be a chronic issue.  Kirilloff is going to be having shoulder surgery and while the team seems fairly confident he will play, the article posted here definitely raises some questions.  Yes, Buxton's biggest weapon in the field is his ability to cover ground, but who knows if that will ever come back.  He has the bat to play the prototypical 1B and I am assuming that would be easier on his knee that any OF position.  It could possibly get him in the field more and free up the DH spot.  

Thoughts?

It does not sound dumb, it sound like desperation.

First base is not as easy as so many seem to think it is; Kirilloffs less than average play shows that.

[insagt1]

interesting thread indeed. All good thoughts. Who knows where one will land. The Kirilloff situation I fear is more serious than maybe anyone is letting on. He is slipping into the 'chronically injured' category. All kinds of injuries and they all impede him from being what the Twins want.

Buxton is already there. If Twins can get 80 games out of him it will be amazing. And will he get his bat back? He has gone from 'can't miss' to 'boo hiss'. Some athletes just can't overcome injuries especially guys like Buck who must play full out all the time. Blessing and a curse.

If I had to guess, it would be that it is 50-50 at BEST that either one will ever reach the potential expected of them and their own expectations. Sure would love to be wrong on this.

[tony&rodney]

2 hours ago, RpR said:

First base is not as easy as so many seem to think it is; Kirilloffs less than average play shows that.

This belief that just about anyone can be adequate as a first baseman has always confounded. I know others question this as well.

The skills to play the other infield positions require more arm strength and lateral foot speed as well as the ability to understand the speed of the game, who is running and so forth. Each position is different and requires different skills.

While a first baseman might not need to be as athletic as a middle infielder. they (like third baseman) should have quick hands and feet. One of the simple mistakes that less accomplished first basemen make is how they receive a throw and the positioning of their feet. By sliding their feet one way or another the fielder gains up to 18 inches to receive a throw. Not everyone rockets the ball shoulder high directly to the bag like Correa. Take a look on ordinary plays and you will see some pretty awkward foot work. Gallo is a big target and does a good job on turning to throw to second base. He is pretty pedestrian otherwise. Solano was less than ideal, to be polite, but no major complaints. Kirilloff seems to do some things well, such as using the width of the bag but had struggles in other areas. Alex may have been reticent to dive and hesitation is never an athlete's friend. He did not look smooth this year.

A really good first baseman whose footwork, agility, quickness, and ability to dig out every low throw is a real bonus for any team. But, yes teams are more willing to get power and offense from 1B than other positions. Thus, fans often see substandard fielding from that position.

[Dave Lemke]

3 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

One potential issue (there are several) is that generally first basemen do a fair amount of long stretches. BB has had problems with hamstrings as well as the knee injuries.

We saw Buxton change his swing to alleviate the stress on his legs. The results don't play imho. First Buxton needs to get completely healthy and then he needs to rebuild his swing.

I agree that all options will be considered: 1B, OF, and DH. 

I don't think he changed his swing to compensate his knee. I think his knee affected his swing. Tough to drive through the pitch when your back knee isn't strong.

 

[tony&rodney]

2 minutes ago, Dave Lemke said:

I don't think he changed his swing to compensate his knee. I think his knee affected his swing. Tough to drive through the pitch when your back knee isn't strong.

 

Yes, i agree.  Same result. The swings we saw as he was struggling don't make it in MLB.

Hopefully, Byron will be fully healed and rediscover a flatter bat path. The math on his swings while hurt are not good.

[D.C Twins]

Love Buck... but HE. IS. COOKED.

Another random scope is not going to fix his degenerative arthritic knee due to loss/damaged cartilage...

just a good talking point to help maintain current season ticket holders and sign up know ones. 

His offense would not justify being a starting 1B just like it didn't justify being a DH. 

 

 

[jkcarew]

If he doesn’t hit enough to add value at DH…then he’s not going to add relevant value at 1B, either.

For those that say/think he’s an all-star hitter when healthy (I don’t)…do you really think 1B is going to keep him healthy?

The best plan by far is to build a roster that ignores him as a starting option entirely. If he becomes an option health/ability-wise, there will be opportunities via injuries and underperformance elsewhere on the roster for him to return to relevance. Sad…and expensive, but it’s the right path forward.

[JD-TWINS]

4 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

See, that’s what I wondered about Royce Lewis when Lewis went back into the field for Game 3 and made those terrible swings, but I was told ‘No’ that Lewis’s legs were fine. I could only follow that game online at work anyway.

I will assume Baldelli and coaches watched Buxton swing prior to putting him into Game 4, but that their observation tools or their ‘eye test’ to evaluate his swings and judge him fit for game duty failed them. For his preparation, I wonder if Buxton faced live throwers throwing all out, or just BP throwers, or the even just the pitching machine. There is so much to dig into here, so many questions. If people aren’t curious about this kind of stuff, it’s going to manifest again somehow, and will preclude the Twins from making better decisions or getting any better on the field, or beating a solid team like Houston in the postseason and going any further.

Thank you for your contributions to this site!

Nobody comes back from a re-hab assignment without hitting full blown aggressive live pitching. There was nothing lacking in the Team’s ability to assess whether Buxton was ready to go Wednesday - he just got jammed with a good fastball.

[jkcarew]

2 hours ago, Dave Lemke said:

I don't think he changed his swing to compensate his knee. I think his knee affected his swing. Tough to drive through the pitch when your back knee isn't strong.

 

You’re probably right. But his career OBP is 300, below league average…and his career OPS+ is 106, marginally better than league average. Next year will be his 10th year in the league. Whatever the ‘reasons’ are for the muted offensive results, they’re not at all likely to go away at this point.

[terrydactyls]

2 hours ago, jkcarew said:

If he doesn’t hit enough to add value at DH…then he’s not going to add relevant value at 1B, either.

For those that say/think he’s an all-star hitter when healthy (I don’t)…do you really think 1B is going to keep him healthy?

The best plan by far is to build a roster that ignores him as a starting option entirely. If he becomes an option health/ability-wise, there will be opportunities via injuries and underperformance elsewhere on the roster for him to return to relevance. Sad…and expensive, but it’s the right path forward.

I'm not sure I can agree with your first statement.  I think Buxton might be the type of player who hits better when he is actively involved in the defensive side of the game.

[jkcarew]

1 minute ago, terrydactyls said:

I'm not sure I can agree with your first statement.  I think Buxton might be the type of player who hits better when he is actively involved in the defensive side of the game.

Wishful. Maybe. Not something I’d count on when constructing the 2024 roster, though.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

4 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Nobody comes back from a re-hab assignment without hitting full blown aggressive live pitching. There was nothing lacking in the Team’s ability to assess whether Buxton was ready to go Wednesday - he just got jammed with a good fastball.

I think there are a couple of Twins minor leaguers who can reach 98mph. I don’t know if they were the ones throwing the live BP to Buxton, or when that even happened. Buxton has preferred the batting cages, remember. I think we are both Twins fans but maybe watch the game differently. I don’t think Buxton was ready to go Wednesday and I think there is a lot more to this than meets the eye.

Thank you for being a Twins Daily caretaker. 

[Rosterman]

Julien is a man without a position. Might be suited for first base/DH with Kirilloff, with the option of playing second if Polanco goes down.

The next bump is when Lee is ready. Does Lee play short, moving Correa to third, which means Lewis becomes, what...second base? Outfield? Austin Martin is still in the posible infield mix. Or will he be an answer for centerfield if Buxton can't play out there.

We don't need Byron at DH, sorry. It would be a wonderful position to rotate various players thru to give them rest.

On another note, what are the chances that if Buxton comes back, shines a bit better than he has, and becomes a commodity. Do the Twins try and trade his contract with the thoughts that they really have no place for him longterm if he can't play cernterfield and give the gamble of him staying healthy to a contender.

 

[terrydactyls]

59 minutes ago, Rosterman said:

Julien is a man without a position. Might be suited for first base/DH with Kirilloff, with the option of playing second if Polanco goes down.

The next bump is when Lee is ready. Does Lee play short, moving Correa to third, which means Lewis becomes, what...second base? Outfield? Austin Martin is still in the posible infield mix. Or will he be an answer for centerfield if Buxton can't play out there.

 

I think the Twins no longer feel that Martin is an infielder.  He may be playing left field next to Lewis in center.

[RpR]

18 minutes ago, terrydactyls said:

I think the Twins no longer feel that Martin is an infielder.  He may be playing left field next to Lewis in center.

Why on earth would they move Lewis who is a competent infielder to the outfield?

They have Correa at SS and Lewis at Third, to change that would be obtuse.

Martin, not in the near future.

[Boswell]

Scott Hatteberg - Pickin’ machine! (“Tell him, Wash! 😊)

[Althebum82]

You present a completely logical question.  However, I still believe that Buxton is our current day equivalent of Tony Oliva and should keep battling on in a DH only role until he finally realizes it is no longer in his best interest to continue on.  

[twins_89]

Has Buxton played a single inning of infield defense in his entire career? I'm skeptical that making the switch to 1B is something he could be successful at without multiple seasons of work.

[tony&rodney]

We won't know how Buxton has healed until Spring Training. He has a no trade contract. My guess is that all conversations about his position for next year are on hold knowing only that he gets a spot on the 40 person roster. When totally healthy, Byron has supreme talent. Unfortunately, Buck has been addled with injuries and his career a sad example of how injury affects a player. The talent teased and there were hopes that Buxton would become one of the top 2-3 centerfielders in Twins history. The hope has to be that somehow Buxton can return as a good baseball player but the odds seem against him. 

 

[terrydactyls]

10 hours ago, RpR said:

Why on earth would they move Lewis who is a competent infielder to the outfield?

They have Correa at SS and Lewis at Third, to change that would be obtuse.

Martin, not in the near future.

Lee at third is the 'why on earth' answer.

[Jerr]

 

[sun]

I can't conceive of Buxton playing 1B. Not when both Gordon & Farmer are already infielders with better batting averages & can be platooned there. Even Castro has a lot of infield experience. I would also be concerned about Buck being put at risk by having any sort of collision at 1B or by over-stretching his legs. He's a diver but not a good stretcher or he could end up needing to be carted off the field on a stretcher. I'd rather be optimistic that he'll benefit from the surgery. He's geting paid to play the OF & anything less may end up being another failed experiment. No use trying to put a square peg into a round hole. I think that Buxton will either make it back to the OF or else he may need to be retired. If he can't run in the outfield then he won't be able to run the bases or hit the ball like a pro either.

.