The Twins Were Right to Gamble on Julien

[thelanges5]

Julien starting at 1B today!

[LA Vikes Fan]

Isn't that interesting and refreshing! No Gallo! Way to go, Rocco. Watch, now because I said that Julien will strike out 4 times and make 2 errors....

[saviking]

40 minutes ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Youth movement is definitely here  ...

Julien has definitely looked better on defense now than at the beginning  ...

Wallner Also looks better defensively this year than last year  ...

Just like all players you have to make adjustments to stay in the show ...

Youth movement is here , let the good times roll ...

I'm not saying Julien is a plus defender but I think when he came up he was worried about making mistakes and thinking too much which is understandable. Now that he has garnered confidence he's free to just react to the ball. All he has to be is an average defender and Julien is good as gold. 

[Rod Carews Birthday]

9 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I think it's time to stop with the "Julien is a butcher at 2B and will never improve" vibe. He certainly started out as a butcher as do many young players first up to the bigs, and the stats and objective analysis says he's improved. Is he great? Not a chance. Is he better? Absolutely. To those who don't want to acknowledge what the objective data says about his fielding improvement, I can only say look again with an open mind. You're were right that he stunk on D when he came up. Players can and often time's do improve. Julien has and chances are, he will continue to improve in the field if he puts in the work.  Oh, and climate change is real too. 

Conversely, his hitting hasn't been good for the last the last month. The league has adjusted to him, now let's see if he adjusts. By the way, Wallner hasn't looked so great lately either although he is adjusting. We can't expect all young players to come up and immediately excel like Lewis. Lewis is a rare breed. 

We have a quality young player in Julien with a lot of potential and years of low cost control. It would be foolish to trade him now IMHO unless we can get a Ober level or better young starting pitcher in return. That seems unlikely to me so I  think the Twins should keep him, have him field 1000 grounders and throws a day in the offseason at 1B and 2B, and play for the upside.  

Absolutely!  When players come up to MLB for the first time, there is tremendous pressure to perform OFFENSIVELY.  They know that not hitting will get them demoted in short order so unless they are a defensive wonder, putting all of their focus on hitting can make their defense suffer.  As they get comfortable, maybe defending like a butcher for a while, they can start to improve.  It's not uncommon at all.  He is improving and based on everything I see/hear about his athleticism and work ethic,  I think will continue to improve.

He does need to adjust his hitting, but again, his track record says he will.  Give him time to improve and either make himself indispensable to the team or increase his trade value enough to demand a return like Arraez.  I'm very happy that he is good enough to make that a viable thought.

[Blyleven2011]

41 minutes ago, saviking said:

I'm not saying Julien is a plus defender but I think when he came up he was worried about making mistakes and thinking too much which is understandable. Now that he has garnered confidence he's free to just react to the ball. All he has to be is an average defender and Julien is good as gold. 

I would concur on that assumption  ...

[RpR]

50 minutes ago, thelanges5 said:

 

[tony&rodney]

2 hours ago, RpR said:

It does not matter if he makes the play, eventually , the extra time it takes him to throw to first, is all some batters need to beat the throw.

His throws to first need a large First Baseman to stop them from being a wild throw.

Julien is not an excellent defender and may never be one. However, he has made the plays. He does look stiff and obviously, from the comments from many on TD, he makes some fan nervous when the ball is hit to him. Still, the outs are made and nobody has been safe at first base yet because Julien took too long to throw the ball. His feeds to second base and turns on double plays are shaky as well but, again, the outs are made. Worrying is just wishing for bad luck. I'm hoping that Julien, and several other Twins, improve defensively. In the meantime, I'm watching to see if the outs are made. As rough as Julien has looked, the plays have been made thus far.

[old nurse]

Julien is no longer a prospect. The fans have turned on him

[Mike Sixel]

I really like Julien, but this FO wanted him in AAA this year. He's only playing because polanco got hurt twice. 

 

[MN_ExPat]

3 hours ago, MGM4706 said:

Ah, please stop saying his fielding has improved. 

Ahh.... No.

[Shaitan]

37 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I really like Julien, but this FO wanted him in AAA this year. He's only playing because polanco got hurt twice. 

 

His presence in the starting lineup suggests otherwise.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, Shaitan said:

His presence in the starting lineup suggests otherwise.

He was demoted after polanco came back the first time, right? 

[gman]

I'm constantly amazed by how many people on this site are so ready to knock players who haven't made the Hall of Fame by their 20th game in the majors. So for those of you too lazy to do any research the following:

2019 - Julian was drafted  but didn't play because of an arm injury. Part of the reason he was available n the 18th round.

2020 -No minor league season

2021 - Julian's first season in professional ball

2022 - second season in professional ball

2023 -- That's this year for some of you, his third season.

He played 167 games at second base, prior to his time with the Twins. So it just might take him a little time to be come a gold glove level player.  But he does lead the Twins in OBP and of the top six Twins in OBP the list includes Julian, Jeffers, Lewis, Wallner and Kirilloff., the sixth being Solano.

FYI - Wallner was also drafted in 2019. So for those who are both knocking the front office for bringing up guys too early and too late, at least look to see when a guy got his first minor league playing time.

 

[Shaitan]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

He was demoted after polanco came back the first time, right? 

So what? He's in MLB right now.

[KirbyDome89]

4 hours ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I think it's time to stop with the "Julien is a butcher at 2B and will never improve" vibe. He certainly started out as a butcher as do many young players first up to the bigs, and the stats and objective analysis says he's improved. Is he great? Not a chance. Is he better? Absolutely. To those who don't want to acknowledge what the objective data says about his fielding improvement, I can only say look again with an open mind. You're were right that he stunk on D when he came up. Players can and often time's do improve. Julien has and chances are, he will continue to improve in the field if he puts in the work.  Oh, and climate change is real too. 

Conversely, his hitting hasn't been good for the last the last month. The league has adjusted to him, now let's see if he adjusts. By the way, Wallner hasn't looked so great lately either although he is adjusting. We can't expect all young players to come up and immediately excel like Lewis. Lewis is a rare breed. 

We have a quality young player in Julien with a lot of potential and years of low cost control. It would be foolish to trade him now IMHO unless we can get a Ober level or better young starting pitcher in return. That seems unlikely to me so I  think the Twins should keep him, have him field 1000 grounders and throws a day in the offseason at 1B and 2B, and play for the upside.  

To what extent? Can he be an everyday 2B? That's the real question. Is moving from unplayably awful to just bad enough of an improvement to hand him 2B over the course of a full season? Obviously the amount of pain you're willing to tolerate defensively is tied to his hitting when we're talking about playing time, but the data you're referencing (Idk how much stock you're willing to put into defensive metrics) isn't good, or even ok. Younger players don't look as bad defensively breaking into the majors unless they're actually that bad. The learning curve defensively isn't close to what they face on the hitting side of things. You don't see IF prospects come up and not be able to handle routine plays the same way you might see guys struggle at the plate. 

 

[Rod Carews Birthday]

1 hour ago, KirbyDome89 said:

To what extent? Can he be an everyday 2B? That's the real question. Is moving from unplayably awful to just bad enough of an improvement to hand him 2B over the course of a full season? Obviously the amount of pain you're willing to tolerate defensively is tied to his hitting when we're talking about playing time, but the data you're referencing (Idk how much stock you're willing to put into defensive metrics) isn't good, or even ok. Younger players don't look as bad defensively breaking into the majors unless they're actually that bad. The learning curve defensively isn't close to what they face on the hitting side of things. You don't see IF prospects come up and not be able to handle routine plays the same way you might see guys struggle at the plate. 

 

The numbers cited are actually quite positive and moving in the right direction -- and smill SSS.  Does he look smooth and slick?  Nope, and he doesn't need to.  Actually, lots of IF prospects come up and struggle defensively -- Trevor Plouffe, Corey Koskie, even Rod Carew -- and then they develop, just like they do at the plate.  I like Polanco a lot, but he's a lot less than awesome with the glove too.  Give Julien some time.  At this point he's been playing professional baseball for about 3 years.  I'm willing to forgive a lot for the right offensive profile, and he certainly has that. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

10 minutes ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

The numbers cited are actually quite positive and moving in the right direction -- and smill SSS.  Does he look smooth and slick?  Nope, and he doesn't need to.

Well, at the MLB level, smooth and slick is an indication of fitness. (fielding fitness). Most players who make it to the MLB level have it, they have the footwork and fundamentals and such. That's why it stands out like a sore thumb to see someone as clumsy as Julien, especially with Correa next to him. We have not seen enough of Julien to know whether he can compensate for a lack of fielding skill, or if he can continue making plays despite that, and there's a big obvious risk to giving him enough time in the field to find out if he's the exception. I don't know what the metrics say. If they say Julien is doing pretty good at second, then I think we have to almost question the metrics - not a bad thing for anyone with a scientific or analytical mind, like the front office has, I assume. I can't really tell what the tweet about Success Rate Added Percentage is trying to tell me. Can you go deep to explain this one? It appears some people obviously are buying it and I want to see it too.

I mentioned Kyle Schwarber in an earlier post, so all is not lost for Julien. Nothing wrong with taking a chance on a guy like that. 

There is always more than just making the putouts too. I heard on the radio yesterday that Julien failed to cover a base. I'm not sure a television watcher would have caught that, but thank god for Cory Provus for catching it and passing that on to the radio listeners. Give that man a raise! I have a sick feeling we are going to lose him to football in a few years. 

 

[tony&rodney]

7 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

I heard on the radio yesterday that Julien failed to cover a base. I'm not sure a television watcher would have caught that,

Yes, it was obvious, but had absolutely no effect on the play. It was a mistake that had no consequence, which is the kind to make because every player/person makes mistakes and learns from the event.

[KirbyDome89]

23 minutes ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

The numbers cited are actually quite positive and moving in the right direction -- and smill SSS.  Does he look smooth and slick?  Nope, and he doesn't need to.  Actually, lots of IF prospects come up and struggle defensively -- Trevor Plouffe, Corey Koskie, even Rod Carew -- and then they develop, just like they do at the plate.  I like Polanco a lot, but he's a lot less than awesome with the glove too.  Give Julien some time.  At this point he's been playing professional baseball for about 3 years.  I'm willing to forgive a lot for the right offensive profile, and he certainly has that. 

Overall they aren't though. It's an incredibly SSS. Julien has been a part time 2B since Polanco came back, so yeah, "since July...." sounds a lot better than "3 weeks," which is roughly the number of starter innings he has been in the field over that period of time. Do they? You just listed 3 guys (also Plouffe was not a developmental success on the defensive side) that span nearly 60 years. At some point the exceptions prove the rule right? I would trade some defense for offense in this lineup too.

[Linus]

11 hours ago, Ghost of Kirby Puckett said:

I don't understand this, at all. The hype? He has hit everywhere, literally his entire existence on earth. I don't know what guys like you and Twinstalker need to see, or if you're really seeing it at all. The guy rakes everywhere. He has significantly improved in the field from what I saw several years ago,  to today. It's obvious even to an untrained eye,  you do not need advanced metrics to spell it out for you. 

The only thing I agree with you on is if the Lee train is coming and the Twins are unwilling to move Royce to center, they'll have a log jam at 2b, 3b, 1b and DH. If Julien could net another Lopez type arm, I'd move him. But it'd have to be a really good arm. 

I only care what he hits in the big leagues. He’s been fine but the jury is always out on young players until the league sees them and they see the league for a while. As far as his defense goes he is not good. If you know anything about baseball that is pretty clear. He can get better but passable is his top end result. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

48 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Overall they aren't though. It's an incredibly SSS. Julien has been a part time 2B since Polanco came back, so yeah, "since July...." sounds a lot better than "3 weeks," which is roughly the number of starter innings he has been in the field over that period of time. Do they? You just listed 3 guys (also Plouffe was not a developmental success on the defensive side) that span nearly 60 years. At some point the exceptions prove the rule right? I would trade some defense for offense in this lineup too.

Plouffie was very reliable in the field but had little range. Then one day he dived for a ball in Detroit, and in the process, aggravated a rib injury (painful) and I don’t think he ever went to the ground for another ball after that. He’s a good guy I’m sure. One of this front office’s first organizational transactions was to non-tender Plouffe in favor of Sano. That was the right call. It sounds like Plouffe is providing good analysis on the television broadcasts, which is also a good thing. 

[DocBauer]

To a degree, Julien is a direct replacement for Arraez based on a top of the order bat, but in a different way; more power, higher BB, lower BA, more speed. But he's not a direct replacement as the Twins moved Arraez to 1B. So to a degree Julien might be considered a replacement, but so is Kirilloff. And no matter how much we/I love Arraez, the trade was a smart one.

To those questioning Julien's defense, I have to ask honestly if you're watching the games? I ask that because I watch all or parts of most games through the MLB APP. He looks just fine on a bang-bang kind of play. He's looked "akward" on some more simple plays where he has time to "think" about a play. To me that's a rookie still finding his place and adjusting. And he has looked more smooth lately, which I attribute to being more relaxed and confident that he's HERE. He doesn't have to be a GG 2B to be solid. And FINALLY, they are letting him play some 1B as well. He's got experience there, and unless he just has horrible hands, it increases his versatility for him in the lineup.

Has he slumped a bit offensively lately? Yes. But he's still taking good AB and walking a ton. And he does have to make adjustments. I believe he will. A couple not so great weeks is not uncommon for anyone, rookie or veteran. And he's also had a slight injury, I want to say a hamstring, that might have slowed him a bit as well.

But to pick his game apart for a couple of weeks, or not realize that his defense has gotten at least a little more smooth as the season is going on, is over reaction or a determination to be stubborn, or just not watching the games.

I think there's a CHANCE Julien MIGHT get a shot at LF at some point. And that might be nice. But all he has to do is be solid at 2B/1B and occasionally DH. The bat plays and will continue to play. 

There ARE questions as to where Lewis and Lee eventually end up, and Martin to a degree. But not only are those questions not for this season, but they are fluid for 2024. Any way you look at it, tough questions of how to fit in so many good players in to your lineup/roster is not a bad thing!

I don't know that there is room for BOTH of Farmer AND Polanco for 2024, but I sure wish there was until Lee is ready. And I'm still not sure that Lewis, with all of his athleticism, shouldn't end up in the OF. But the BEST INF the Twins could put together is some combination of Lee, Correa, Lewis, Kirilloff, AND Julien. You add in someone like Polanco, and/or Castro or, maybe Prato, and you have one of the best INF in all of MLB. And a couple of those guys also help the OF depth and versatility.

But any way you slice it, Julien fits! 

[terrydactyls]

I think DocBauer hit the nail on the head.  When Julien just reacts, like on a hard hit ball or a diving stop, his fielding is decent.  It's when it's a routine play and he has time to think about all the possible negative outcomes, he is more prone to a negative outcome.  And, from my perspective, that's not uncommon for a player with limited experience.

[John Belinski]

On 9/6/2023 at 3:05 PM, gman said:

I'm constantly amazed by how many people on this site are so ready to knock players who haven't made the Hall of Fame by their 20th game in the majors. So for those of you too lazy to do any research the following:

2019 - Julian was drafted  but didn't play because of an arm injury. Part of the reason he was available n the 18th round.

2020 -No minor league season

2021 - Julian's first season in professional ball

2022 - second season in professional ball

2023 -- That's this year for some of you, his third season.

He played 167 games at second base, prior to his time with the Twins. So it just might take him a little time to be come a gold glove level player.  But he does lead the Twins in OBP and of the top six Twins in OBP the list includes Julian, Jeffers, Lewis, Wallner and Kirilloff., the sixth being Solano.

FYI - Wallner was also drafted in 2019. So for those who are both knocking the front office for bringing up guys too early and too late, at least look to see when a guy got his first minor league playing time.

 

I was a fan hoping Wallner got more playing time, but his hitting has really gotten worse lately. It appears pitchers know how to pitch to him. He is getting fewer hits and is striking out more. I am not sure he is the answer to solving the Twins need for a good hitting outfielder.