Jump to content
Twins Daily
  • Create Account

Recommended Posts

Posted

With his managerial career possibly being on the line, if he can get the Twins into the playoffs then that would be a mark of success. For now he gets the benefit of the doubt and time will tell. Good luck to him & the Twins.

Posted
2 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

The track record with those young players stinks. But the willingness to use them most is encouraging.

Hopefully they don't even give him a choice this year. No need for Ty France types to be on the Twins next year.

Low level of hope and expectations here, but that was going to be the case with any of the hires.

The organization has to commit to it. 

Posted
3 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

I mean.....didn't a bunch of us try and tell some of you that Falvey would just hire another guy exactly like Rocco?

If you were expecting something else....you let your Rocco hate blind you to the more systemic problems.

How is he exactly like Rocco though? Personality wise they don't seem to be similar at all, mostly because Baldelli never had one. Looking at the team stats, the Pirates appeared to platoon way less, let left handed hitters hit left handed pitching way more and played younger players way more. The Pirates had nearly half as many pinch hitting appearances in 2023-2024 as the Twins did. And that's despite Pittsburgh having an objectively worse offensive roster. Yeah, sounds crazy to say, but both seasons their team OPS was .50 points below the Twins..

Between the two guys with managerial experience, Shelton and Servais, Servais was the one who seemed to be most like Baldelli to me. 

Posted
46 minutes ago, old nurse said:

Just my opinion but from early on good hitters play more so the focus is on learning to hit, working on hitting. Defense comes second. Once a professional, hitting continues to get you playing time, defense is second. Once you get to mlb, hitting gets you paid. Just ask Royce Lewis.  Now when this outfit took over, the focus was 3 outcome baseball. That type of hitter, being athletic was secondary. Fielding is more athletic.  The high draft picks were not athletic, the later round draft picks who were athletic did not get hits. To turn that around cannot be done as easily as retooling the Ford plant. It is more like moving a barge with a john boat with a 9 horse motor rather than a tugboat.  It will get done, but it will take time. 

I've thought about this a lot. More than I should because the actual answers are out of the reach of my living room in North Dakota but I have thought about this a lot.

I think the type of player that they drafted plays a role even the type of player drafted is subject to development criticism because of the 3 outcome focus we should be asking the question... where is our 3 outcome dude to play 1B. That's historically where you put the biggest of the big boppers and we have been Arraez, Solano, France the position since this regime stepped foot in the door. Morrison, Cron were just one year guys that they just kept plugging in every year with diminished talent as the years went by.

In the end... I keep going back to utilization and I have a hard time shaking it. 

I don't have the same complaints on the pitching side of things. They are getting some results... not the results that everybody wants but I'm seeing potential, improvement and I'm seeing utilization. On the pitching side there is no choice. You can't hide any pitchers so if you are on the roster... you are going to get utililzed, you will be allowed to work through some things. It's sink or swim so they all get opportunity and I could be right or I could be wrong but it seems to be working out ok. Again not to the degree that many of us demand but you can see the development working on the mound. At the very least... We just traded a bullpen full of development for fairly decent return packages and they are not filling space with the Bundy's of the world. At least they haven't been in the past few years.  

On the offensive side of things... I don't see the same things at the major league level. I see screwing around. Trying to Frankenstein a roster together. I see all left handed hitters strip mined for parts. Endless string of cheap one year vets filling holes that teams like Milwaukee and Cleveland utilize to the tiny-est degree.

Outside of Arraez and Jeffers... I see nothing successfully developed to a value level that they could acquire something decent in a trade. Maybe some points can be rewarded for Castro... otherwise it is just question marks and failures since covid and perhaps longer. It's a pile of diminished value instead of increased value. Larnach Strip mined for parts, Kirilloff strip mined for parts, Gordon failed, Rooker very succussful after basically being given away to complete a trade. Miranda failed, Celestino OMG, Lewis a big question mark at this point, Julien strip mined for parts heading toward failure, Wallner strip mined for parts. Martin and Lee are incomplete yet and firmly question marks at this point, Keaschall looking amazing so far. Still has to continue performing to really remove the question mark.    

I may have missed some but that's 15 players run through the filters over the past 5 years. 3 Per Year on average in an organization that has to produce an average of at least 5 a year (Including pitching) just to maintain a budget that allows them to offer bigger and better free agents. What are the results... 3 out of 15... Maybe 4 are making anyone comfortable at the moment. It's a big stinking problem.    

And I have seen continually... from those who publish such things... A highly ranked minor league system year after year that just keeps crashing and breaking against the side of the major league wall making it necessary to sign Ty France and play him every day like he's Bryce Harper. 

  

  

Posted
12 hours ago, PerfectGame said:

I think that is the reasoning for the hire. This will be a transition year waiting for the kids in the minors to get a year or two of more seasoning. Plus the lockout is looming after this upcoming season. My guess is there will be a true long term manager hired for 2028. 

I agree with the above (and the others who pretty much said it).  This is just a quiet boring pick to get them through the lockout.  I wouldn't be surprised if the owners move on from Falvey at that time, and probably Shelton too.  But you wouldn't bring in a whole new FO just to manage the last year of a team under financial rules that are about to be upended.   So, I think we can assume -  next year is already a lost year.  Low payroll, lame duck FO, lame duck manager.    And probably clean slate organizational leadership when the new financial landscape is clearer.

And in the meantime, Shelton & Falvey can bet on themselves and do everything to make the 2026 Twins outperform the minimal expectations.  Anything's possible.  At least in theory.

Posted
7 minutes ago, Julian Bernick said:

I agree with the above (and the others who pretty much said it).  This is just a quiet boring pick to get them through the lockout.  I wouldn't be surprised if the owners move on from Falvey at that time, and probably Shelton too.  But you wouldn't bring in a whole new FO just to manage the last year of a team under financial rules that are about to be upended.   So, I think we can assume -  next year is already a lost year.  Low payroll, lame duck FO, lame duck manager.    And probably clean slate organizational leadership when the new financial landscape is clearer.

And in the meantime, Shelton & Falvey can bet on themselves and do everything to make the 2026 Twins outperform the minimal expectations.  Anything's possible.  At least in theory.

No Idea but if I had to guess. Falvey and Shelton would leave at the same time. A new Front office would want their own manager. 

I have no idea if Falvey's back is actually against the wall... but if your back is against the wall. You'd want someone you know and trust in that dugout. 

I guess... my guess is that these two would have to counting on each other and would enjoy or suffer the same fate. 

Posted
47 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Some of the comments here go beyond rude. That's no was to talk about humans that are doing baseball stuff. So sad. 

Yep. It’s almost like certain people come to this site just to be obnoxious, and of course do it anonymously. 

Posted
29 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

No Idea but if I had to guess. Falvey and Shelton would leave at the same time. A new Front office would want their own manager. 

For sure-- I would guess they will live or die together in 2026 and suffer the same fate together after the lockout.  Hey, you never know.  I am a pessimist, but I've been wrong before...   maybe they can overachieve and turn stuff around.   I mean, there's been a lot of failure, they're due for some good luck.  

Posted
15 minutes ago, Julian Bernick said:

For sure-- I would guess they will live or die together in 2026 and suffer the same fate together after the lockout.  Hey, you never know.  I am a pessimist, but I've been wrong before...   maybe they can overachieve and turn stuff around.   I mean, there's been a lot of failure, they're due for some good luck.  

As much as I complain. I'm optimistic every opening day and probably optimistic to a fault but I don't know any other way to be. I like having a reason to get up in the morning. I still think this team is closer than most realize but there is still time to widen that gap before the off-season is over. 

I even stay optimistic in August when it's clear the season is over and they sell like they did because at the very least... they are moving in a direction toward something. 

My optimism gets challenged when they sit still and the past three seasons have been... well... basically sitting still at least until this trade deadline. That just leads to me pointing at the upcoming wall.

Wall! Wall!... You're going to hit a wall!

Luckily... it allowed me to brace for the upcoming crash. How's that for optimism? 

 

 

Posted
3 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

As much as I complain. I'm optimistic every opening day and probably optimistic to a fault but I don't know any other way to be.

My optimism gets challenged when they sit still and the past three seasons have been... well... basically sitting still at least until this trade deadline. That just leads to me pointing at the upcoming wall.

I guess we can at least be "glass half full" about Taj Bradley, Mick Abel, Roden, Kendry Rojas, Gonzalez, Outman and the rest... they traded for a lot of guys and if 3-4 of them are big leaguers, that could improve things. 

I mean, deep down, it was clear that they were going nowhere so changing it around was low-risk and has at least a little upside.

Posted
20 minutes ago, Julian Bernick said:

I guess we can at least be "glass half full" about Taj Bradley, Mick Abel, Roden, Kendry Rojas, Gonzalez, Outman and the rest... they traded for a lot of guys and if 3-4 of them are big leaguers, that could improve things. 

I mean, deep down, it was clear that they were going nowhere so changing it around was low-risk and has at least a little upside.

You just got to squint. The hope is in the small print. 

BTW... I just wrote a line for a song. I Need to go work on a chord progression and melody. 

Posted
3 minutes ago, SoDakTwinsFan said:

At best I see us fighting for the last wild card spot!  SO EXCITED!

I mean I'd love it.  I'd take most anything over trying to decide if it's worse if they bring in Hatch, Cabrera or Kriske in the 5th.

Posted
5 hours ago, big dog said:

Looking at the Twins Daily Top 20 for 2022, the problem that leaps out at me is not many players who "excelled in the minors". We had a lot of players who looked like they might be something someday if things went right. I don't see a lack of major-league level improvement, I see a few players expected to do well who have been okay or better and some payers we hoped would do well but had no real reason to expect it.

If you look at the top 10, you have the following major leaguers:

Martin, who was definitely not a star in the minors

Lewis, obvious injury problems throughout the minors, not a great track record there

Miranda, had one big year but not a great track record

Ryan, not a problem

Duran, that worked out ok

Woods Richardson, work in progress but seems like a pitcher

Winder, never more than a marginal MLer.

In addition you had Balazovic with a cup of coffee then released, Canterino with injuries, and Petty, traded. 

Are there obvious problems there with players who really excelled then never got better in the majors?

Looking at the second 10, we have Miller (traded), Celestino (now in the minors with his 4th organization), Wallner (profiled as exactly who he is today, a questionable prospect), Sands (MLB pitcher), Varland (traded MLB pitcher), Rodriguez (still hurt seems like all the time), Enlow (didn't play in '25), Steer (traded MLB player), Julien (described as a "versatile fielder"??), and Hajiar (traded and retired).

The idea that we had all these excellent players in the minors who fell apart in the majors just doesn't stand up, IMO. I blame Baldelli for a lot of things, but failing to develop superstars from the talent he was given is not on my list.

If you look at failure rates of the ranked top 100 players, outside of the top 20, the failure to develop into a major league player was way over 50%. So out of the top 20 list that you present, the Twins would be successful to have 3 years out from the list making to have produced 2 All Star pitchers, an all star in the making with Varland, a developing solid starter in SWR, a middle reliever, a 3 year major league role player in Steer, and 3 to be determined outfielders. The Mirandas and Julians are not the outlier examples 

Posted

All 4 of the reported finalists were fine...but Shelton seemed the least inspiring.

Flaherty had bench-coach experience with a well-regarded manager (Counsell) and was rumored in connection with multiple openings. It certainly seems like he could become a trendy name in manager searches, and time will tell what if anything the Twins missed out on there. Rowson had the connection to a good recent Twins team, and his succession of jobs since then indicates he has qualities as a coach that MLB organizations like.

A friend with Pittsburgh ties but no particular MN ties asked me today what I thought of the hire, and it occurred to me: the Pirates under Shelton's watch almost seem like the recent Twins' strengths and weaknesses magnified. Some really good starting pitching and a bunch of hitters who can't quite put it together in a sustainable way. It's hard to say how much of that is on the manager (certainly some of it is out of his control); it's also hard to say he got the most out of the talent he was working with.

I'm ready to be wrong, and hoping that by mid-next season, this will look like a great choice in hindsight. Time will tell.

Posted
20 hours ago, knothole61 said:

Many thanks! Also, Shelton is rocking a .410 MLB managerial record so he’ll fit right in. 

Shelton has experience low budget baseball teams. He'll know where the best buffets are on the road to save meal money for his guys.

Posted
1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

My optimism gets challenged when they sit still and the past three seasons have been... well... basically sitting still at least until this trade deadline.

This is about where I reside, always hopeful but very discouraged by the total lack of vision the last three years. I have no idea what the POBO is up to and believe all people can change. A verdict on his rain (pun intended) can be withheld until April. The concern is that our POBO has skated on the players from the previous front office and he has limited ability to perceive the nuances of baseball or adequately judge talent. We should have some sort of an answer in six months. I'm going to be hopeful.

Posted
3 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I've thought about this a lot. More than I should because the actual answers are out of the reach of my living room in North Dakota but I have thought about this a lot.

I think the type of player that they drafted plays a role even the type of player drafted is subject to development criticism because of the 3 outcome focus we should be asking the question... where is our 3 outcome dude to play 1B. That's historically where you put the biggest of the big boppers and we have been Arraez, Solano, France the position since this regime stepped foot in the door. Morrison, Cron were just one year guys that they just kept plugging in every year with diminished talent as the years went by.

In the end... I keep going back to utilization and I have a hard time shaking it. 

I don't have the same complaints on the pitching side of things. They are getting some results... not the results that everybody wants but I'm seeing potential, improvement and I'm seeing utilization. On the pitching side there is no choice. You can't hide any pitchers so if you are on the roster... you are going to get utililzed, you will be allowed to work through some things. It's sink or swim so they all get opportunity and I could be right or I could be wrong but it seems to be working out ok. Again not to the degree that many of us demand but you can see the development working on the mound. At the very least... We just traded a bullpen full of development for fairly decent return packages and they are not filling space with the Bundy's of the world. At least they haven't been in the past few years.  

On the offensive side of things... I don't see the same things at the major league level. I see screwing around. Trying to Frankenstein a roster together. I see all left handed hitters strip mined for parts. Endless string of cheap one year vets filling holes that teams like Milwaukee and Cleveland utilize to the tiny-est degree.

Outside of Arraez and Jeffers... I see nothing successfully developed to a value level that they could acquire something decent in a trade. Maybe some points can be rewarded for Castro... otherwise it is just question marks and failures since covid and perhaps longer. It's a pile of diminished value instead of increased value. Larnach Strip mined for parts, Kirilloff strip mined for parts, Gordon failed, Rooker very succussful after basically being given away to complete a trade. Miranda failed, Celestino OMG, Lewis a big question mark at this point, Julien strip mined for parts heading toward failure, Wallner strip mined for parts. Martin and Lee are incomplete yet and firmly question marks at this point, Keaschall looking amazing so far. Still has to continue performing to really remove the question mark.    

I may have missed some but that's 15 players run through the filters over the past 5 years. 3 Per Year on average in an organization that has to produce an average of at least 5 a year (Including pitching) just to maintain a budget that allows them to offer bigger and better free agents. What are the results... 3 out of 15... Maybe 4 are making anyone comfortable at the moment. It's a big stinking problem.    

And I have seen continually... from those who publish such things... A highly ranked minor league system year after year that just keeps crashing and breaking against the side of the major league wall making it necessary to sign Ty France and play him every day like he's Bryce Harper. 

  

  

Sano was the high ceiling 1b when they got here.. they didn’t plan on an implosion. They drafted Sabato in 2020 for heir apparent. After the Sano implosion, Kirriloff was plan A while Sabato developed. Kaboom. No plan C

Posted
1 hour ago, old nurse said:

Sano was the high ceiling 1b when they got here.. they didn’t plan on an implosion. They drafted Sabato in 2020 for heir apparent. After the Sano implosion, Kirriloff was plan A while Sabato developed. Kaboom. No plan C

Not to mention the trade of Steer and CES. 

Posted
6 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

How is he exactly like Rocco though? Personality wise they don't seem to be similar at all, mostly because Baldelli never had one. Looking at the team stats, the Pirates appeared to platoon way less, let left handed hitters hit left handed pitching way more and played younger players way more. The Pirates had nearly half as many pinch hitting appearances in 2023-2024 as the Twins did. And that's despite Pittsburgh having an objectively worse offensive roster. Yeah, sounds crazy to say, but both seasons their team OPS was .50 points below the Twins..

Between the two guys with managerial experience, Shelton and Servais, Servais was the one who seemed to be most like Baldelli to me. 

They literally hired a guy that Rocco had on his staff.  I don't know what personality I'd assign Rocco or Shelton, because who they are on camera vs. the locker room vs. regular life is a really subjective exercise with little evidence.

Maybe in-game strategy will differ, but the lake they went fishing in was the same one as last time.  Even caught a guy they threw back previously.  That alone indicates that the team isn't changing much.

Posted

They chose wrong.  Rowson was the guy to get!  I just keep wondering....Twins said Rowson interview was amazing...where is he?  Still in NY.  Dang!

Shelton will just be Rocco 2.0.  I just don't see a difference between the two.

As far as coaches, I like both pitching and batting coaches but I have no idea if Shelton will.  Maki has been a great pitching coach, I'm so glad he stepped up. 

Borgschulte is interesting, but still no traction in hitting just yet.  BUT, then look at what Popkins has done in Toronto....so ...just saying...I wonder if there is some other reason that Twin's coaches have such a hard time here in Twins territory?  How will that translate to Shelton?  Is something/someone tying their hands?  Is someone dictating  all this crazy **** in Minneapolis, like LH hitters not hitting LH pitching, or forcing players into positions they are not trained for, or concentration on dingers, or positional hitting?  I certainly hope that Shelton can stand up to that nonsense and say NFW!! 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
The Twins Daily Caretaker Fund
The Twins Daily Caretaker Fund

You all care about this site. The next step is caring for it. We’re asking you to caretake this site so it can remain the premier Twins community on the internet.

×
×
  • Create New...