Braves 6, Twins 4: Keaschall Impresses in Debut, Jax Implodes in Eighth

[Whitey333]

Very frustrating.  Some very nice performances from Keashall and Paddock but bottom line is another loss.  We had a chance to build on that Mets series and blew it.

[CRF]

What is up with Jax? He's just killing us. We need to get him straightened out fast. He's a huge part of the pen and we need him. 

[Doctor Gast]

By far, Paddack's best game was too bad that he didn't get the win. He might end up in the BP, not because he's not a good SP, but more because we might need him in the BP. I hope Stewart comes back strong.

It was exciting to see Keaschal hit. He loves hitting. 87% of the game was enjoyable, the last 13% was not (I went to bed before that). 

[rv78]

37 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

The Dodgers used 565 relief pitchers last year. That is 3.5 per game. 

So you are saying the difference is is Quality? I thought the Twins had the best bullpen in baseball.

[JD-TWINS]

9 hours ago, knothole61 said:

Ouch...even during his short-lived "he's the greatest set-up man in all of baseball" phase, there's been something about Jax that didn't sit well with me. This is not 20/20 hindsight--I've never really trusted his stuff. I'm not sure what this makes me, (a Boomer I guess!) but I base most of my MLB beliefs on observation and intuition rather than on today's endless and incredible array of stats. So...my eye test has always told me that there's some fragility in Jax that will keep him from ever achieving any long term success in MLB. Maybe he will right the ship and become of value to the Twins. Maybe his 11 runs in 8 innings and 11.25 ERA is aberrant, but I genuinely doubt it. Time will tell, and I hope that I'm wrong, but please Rocco use him sparingly for the time being and not as the vaunted set-up man.  

It's all so sad really...I mean, after all of the early season scuffling and ineptitude, the Twins were ready to turn a bit of a corner tonight. A win to start the Atlanta series, that included an impressive rookie debut and a strong performance from Paddack, could well have provided a springboard for this series and beyond. Instead, the much needed come-from-behind win for the struggling Braves has given them the momentum. 

 

 

  

It was Big Time disappointing Friday night! Jax needs to lock down the 8th.

That said, I do not know how you or anyone can say that some eye test would suggest that Griffin Jax doesn’t have elite stuff? He’s electric, when right. His change-up moves left to right at 91-92…….his sweeper can make RH hitters looks foolish routinely……his fastball is typically at 97MPH. His location/command can drift but his stuff is fantastic.

He walked 2 guys - gave up a sharp single - gave up an infield hit that easily could have been played differently into an easy out. That’s it for Friday. His performances lately have had brutal outcomes, no doubt. His stuff is still excellent but he’s struggling with command. It’s unacceptable. He’s still very talented with a bunch of probable upside.

72 innings in ‘24 and a 2.03 ERA……..not sure what you saw last year that suggested he was going to be of some small value to the Twins going forward? 65 innings - 3.36 ERA & 71 innings - 3.86 ERA in two previous years ……200 plus innings over 3 seasons of pretty good results.

[Linus]

His command is off - the stuff is still there. He will get it back but it might take a couple outings. You have to send him out there as we need him if we are going to have a chance. He doesn’t get out of this rut sitting in the bullpen. 

[thelanges5]

7-13 start, same as 2024. Runs scored and runs allowed are nearly identical. At least we’re consistent. Great debut by Keaschall. We need him to provide a spark. Not sure what to make of Jax but 3 losses on him to start the season has my level of concern rising (looking like 22 Pagan). 
 

This should be a stretch where we can get to .500 - ATL, CHISox, LAA. Definitely not a sure thing if last night is any indication.

[JD-TWINS]

12 minutes ago, rv78 said:

So you are saying the difference is is Quality? I thought the Twins had the best bullpen in baseball.

Coulombe - 0.00 ERA …. Duran - 1.08 ERA … Sands - 3.24 ERA …. Topa - 1.35 ERA …. Varland - 2.70 ERA

Alcala - 13.50 ERA & Jax - 11.25 ERA ……if the guys that were supposed to be 7th & 8th inning “guys”…….top 2-4 guys in the PEN, if they were even average the Team would have, arguably, the best PEN in the A.L. - maybe baseball. I lm reality, 2 guys are struggling to be consistent and it reflects on the “entire Pen”.

8th spot has been a mixture of 4 other guys with good results from each, as 3 of them have ERA under 2.00.

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, Peter said:

What happened??  Went to mass twins are up 4-1 only to see them lose 6-4. How many more losses can we take like this? We are better than 7-13 record. This is another devastating loss. How do twins recover from this?

As Tony&Rodney stated above - the sun is up!

7-13 in ‘24 as well……went 23 games over .500 over next 4 months in ‘24. There’s still hope. .500 record by June 1st and they are in the mix for Division Title. IMO.

[TheLeviathan]

2 hours ago, beckmt said:

The problem here is Rocco, Jax should have been used in lower leverage situations until he worked it out.  Twins because of Rocco on well on the way to leading the league in blown saves and it will not be close.  Save the season and find a new manager who understands pitching and does not just go by script. 

What?  Jax is our best reliever. (At least he was as of 6 weeks ago)  He was brought in to to a clean 8th with a three run lead.

That is exactly how you help him work out of his funk and get back on track.  

[jorgenswest]

37 minutes ago, rv78 said:

So you are saying the difference is is Quality? I thought the Twins had the best bullpen in baseball.

I am saying the Dodgers used 565 relievers last year not including the 10 relievers I used as an opener.

[LambchoP]

Awesome to see Keaschal have a great debut. Hopefully he can start to play the field more and force the twins to keep him in the lineup. Paddack is pitching like his job is on the line, which it should be. Jax is a little concerning. Sure looks like our pen isn't as good as advertised. Hopefully Stewart is back soon. Think we may need one or two more pen arms. Is Tonkin the guy? Prelipp could be interesting. Maybe Morris or Raya? Robertson is still a FA :)

[BillyBallLives]

1 hour ago, Peter said:

We are better than 7-13 record. This is another devastating loss. How do twins recover from this?

The more they blow,  the more they won't.

It gets worse when you think about it this way. 

For every blown game, ( a game you really should of won) you have to win 2 games just to get back to where you should be.....what???

Example:

Twins enter Atlanta 7-12. (-5) 

A win puts them at (-4)...but they blow so now they are -6...meaning....just to get back to -4....they have to win two games.

Funny math I know....but it takes two good things to erase one bad thing. That's how damaging blown games are.

Not to mention blowing games has a compounding effect—morale drops, pressure builds, and fans get extra salty. That’s not just math; that’s human nature.

But...the 1991 Twins won 15 in a row on their way to the World Series. Anyone see this team doing that? 

Who knows?  it's why we watch, or eventually stop.

[David Maro]

When you tee up the ball it gets hit. Jax has been doing just that with his slider and or sweeper.

The offense was good when they made Elder work,but had far to many 1 pitch at bats. To start the game Julien 1 pitch and done. Leadoff hitter needs to take some pitches that's his job. Buxton as well did the same thing,also looked like he was back swinging for the fences.

Can't give these games away,because Saturday facing Sale.

[Patzky]

1 hour ago, Peter said:

What happened??  Went to mass twins are up 4-1 only to see them lose 6-4. How many more losses can we take like this? We are better than 7-13 record. This is another devastating loss. How do twins recover from this?

7-13 is our trademark. We are neither better or worse. The only comfort I can offer you is that this is the time they began to turn it around in 2024.. and lo and behold it's the White Sox and Angels in the schedule again next week just like last year.

[Patzky]

19 minutes ago, LambchoP said:

Awesome to see Keaschal have a great debut. Hopefully he can start to play the field more and force the twins to keep him in the lineup. Paddack is pitching like his job is on the line, which it should be. Jax is a little concerning. Sure looks like our pen isn't as good as advertised. Hopefully Stewart is back soon. Think we may need one or two more pen arms. Is Tonkin the guy? Prelipp could be interesting. Maybe Morris or Raya? Robertson is still a FA :)

Tonkin pitched two effective innings for the Mussels last night. Stewart hasn't thrown since Wednesday. I'm hopeful they make the connection.

[Patzky]

46 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

What?  Jax is our best reliever. (At least he was as of 6 weeks ago)  He was brought in to to a clean 8th with a three run lead.

That is exactly how you help him work out of his funk and get back on track.  

The blame Rocco echoes never really die from game to game.

[FlyingFinn]

8 minutes ago, David Maro said:

To start the game Julien 1 pitch and done. Leadoff hitter needs to take some pitches that's his job.

And last year everyone complained that Julien has to swing at strikes. Sometimes players can't win.

[BillyBallLives]

9 minutes ago, David Maro said:

Can't give these games away,because Saturday facing Sale.

Sales era is 6.62 I believe. But he hates losing.  He could easily throw a 3 hit shutout. 

[Patzky]

1 hour ago, rv78 said:

So you are saying the difference is is Quality? I thought the Twins had the best bullpen in baseball.

You must be fun in the Weather v. Climate explanation 

[DJL44]

10 hours ago, Parfigliano said:

3 more often 4 relief pitchers almost every night is not the kind of thing a competitive MLB team does.

Damn near every team uses 3 relievers per night. MLB average was 3.67 relievers per game in 2022.

[insagt1]

Agree with all the comments about Jax. He was the last guy on the staff I figured for this horrible start.

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, Karbo said:

Although I can't blame Rocco or anyone else but Jax, a real weakness is beginning to show, and that's the fact the Twins don't seem to have a reliever capable of throwing multiple innings in a close game. As I've said before, they need a couple of setup guys that can get 2 innings or some of these guys are going to pitch in 100 innings.

The Twins have said they don't want relievers to go back on the mound once they have sat down in the dugout.

[Blyleven2011]

1 hour ago, rv78 said:

So you are saying the difference is is Quality? I thought the Twins had the best bullpen in baseball.

Can't believe everything put to ink or heard ...

I can't believe the responses about Jax  , yes he hasn't been the Jax of last year , but his bad start to this season and everyone wants him demoted , alot of the players are off to slow starts , things aren't working out great so far for Jax but there is no need to sweep him to the gutter just yet ...

Last couple of years everyone praised how Jax pitched,  now the same fans are thinking he is cooked , it's early in the season and time for jax to turn it around , it's not time to be fickle about one player  ...

The twins FO came into this season 2025 as pretenders on contending  , we fans knew it was going to be much of the same from 2024 late season crash  , we just didn't expect jax to be the one to start out this bad ...

Jax for one cannot pitch consecutive days and be effective ( i know he had 1 day off between mets series and Atlanta , but he pitch 2 days consecutively against mets on wed.and thur . ), just like Taylor Roger's couldn't pitch effectively on consecutive days ...

Also when jax is on his game he throws less than 15 pitches to get through the inning , if he's not on his game Rocco should pull him after the 3rd batter but Rocco wants relievers to eat innings and then the results aren't favorable  ...

It was another bad game for jax  , it's been a brutal start to his season  but I'm not ready to throw him overboard for fish food  ...

This is just what my eyes have seen of jax career as a reliever ...

 

[Old Crow]

10 hours ago, jkcarew said:

If one were to only watch Twins games this season, you’d swear that every single team has an elite bullpen…or at least, a better bullpen than the Twins.

Have we ever scored even a few runs after the sixth inning to take a lead or pull away. Once? Against the White Sox, maybe?

Come to think of it we really haven't scored that much in the first six either.

[Blyleven2011]

27 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

The Twins have said they don't want relievers to go back on the mound once they have sat down in the dugout.

Then they shouldn't sit down  , stand and stay loose ...

[Karbo]

40 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

The Twins have said they don't want relievers to go back on the mound once they have sat down in the dugout.

Another example of the analytics becoming a problem. If the starters could go 6-7 innings then that works, but going through 4 relievers a game will come back to haunt them later in the season. Of course, the way they're playing that may not matter.

[Dave Borton]

3 hours ago, Peter said:

We are better than 7-13 record.

No, they are a 7-13 team.

[Danchat]

I understand Jax is the main focus here, but are we going to talk about how Sands allowed the Braves to make the death blow by allowing two hits right after he came in? The game was salvageable if he could have held there.

2 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

What?  Jax is our best reliever. (At least he was as of 6 weeks ago)  He was brought in to to a clean 8th with a three run lead.

That is exactly how you help him work out of his funk and get back on track.  

I agree, though it might be time to bump him back to the 7th inning or lower leverage situations. I don't think it's time to treat him like Colome or Pagan yet but we could be getting there.

[djvang]

Relievers are maddening. They can go from great to worthless in the snap of a finger. And vice versa.