The Time for "Getting Creative" Is Upon Us

[Vanimal46]

This is what we’ve all been waiting for. The most pivotal point in team history. 

[sweetmusicviola16]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

Falvey's idea of being creative is passively sitting back (an oxymoron) & wait for offers from other FO's who want to flip or dump players. & pick the least bad one  & or normally try to find a bargain on the FA salvage heap. On rare occasions, FO comes with a mutually beneficial offer (MIA Lopez/ Arraez) IMO we came out ahead. We had leverage over LAD because they were desperate to unload disgruntled Maeda, I'm happy with Maeda but we could have done much better on who we gave up. The rest we lost & I was vocal about it on each when they happened. The fiasco in '22 where our fantastic catching core was demolished, because of Falvey's signing of FA Josh Donaldson. Many think that the signing of Correa was a mistake. IMO we were lucky to sign Correa. Correa fell into Falvey's lap after Boras couldn't sell him & Falvey had luckily lost out on Story.

When Falvey says he going to be creative, it sends a chill down my back. That means trading someone we need to acquire someone we don't. If they can't fill our real needs then please don't be creative & stay pat. 

"The fiasco in '22 where our fantastic catching corp was demolished,"

How about Doctor if he took advantage of now to fix that? I've  been advocating all off season for a major trade for a young ML ready Catcher. I like Rushing. Ford. Salas. I maybe most like Quero.. Swap top prospects for top prospects. Emrod or Keaschell for Quero. Other pieces to make it work. 

[amjgt]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

Falvey's idea of being creative is passively sitting back (an oxymoron) & wait for offers from other FO's who want to flip or dump players. & pick the least bad one  & or normally try to find a bargain on the FA salvage heap. On rare occasions, FO comes with a mutually beneficial offer (MIA Lopez/ Arraez) IMO we came out ahead. We had leverage over LAD because they were desperate to unload disgruntled Maeda, I'm happy with Maeda but we could have done much better on who we gave up. The rest we lost & I was vocal about it on each when they happened. The fiasco in '22 where our fantastic catching core was demolished, because of Falvey's signing of FA Josh Donaldson. Many think that the signing of Correa was a mistake. IMO we were lucky to sign Correa. Correa fell into Falvey's lap after Boras couldn't sell him & Falvey had luckily lost out on Story.

When Falvey says he going to be creative, it sends a chill down my back. That means trading someone we need to acquire someone we don't. If they can't fill our real needs then please don't be creative & stay pat. 

I can't imagine what it's like to be this type of fan. Must be exhausting.

[IndianaTwin]

2 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Darvish & Musgrave are locked into San Diego for years - King & Cease are both UFA after ‘25. King has a really good track record…. arguably better than Cease!

King is at $8M plus & Cease is at $13M plus in ‘25. I think either can be argued to be superior to the other.

SD is more motivated to move the $13M, IMO.

Z. Matthews - W. Castro - R. Henriquez for Cease. SD gets a very reasonable PEN option and a fringe MLB ready starter and a solid LF that can bring IF depth. They get 3 players and save $5M at a minimum.

Twins trade Paddack - Tonkin - Gonzalez - Julien for Luis Arraez…….SD gets a couple more real MLB arms and shed another $6.5M.

Is the goal to reduce San Diego’s budget? Because that’s adding $11.5M to the Twins.

[old nurse]

4 hours ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

Elias Diaz signs with SD. So their need for a catcher is likely gone. By playing the waiting game this year Falvey will be left with no one to play with. This would have likely been a good off season to get the most value out of Jeffers that he will still have for us. 

San Diego is still in debt ratio limbo. It would have took valuable prospect capital to get them to take Vasquez as well as a lot more capital to match a salary for the player coming back. 

[BillyBallLives]

I hope the first thing the new ownership does is do away with Mr. Creativity. 

[Western SD Fan]

I know many of us, me included, have been dreaming of what a new ownership group would look like and can do for the organization.  I'm not so sure that even new owners would increase spending in the short term, due to the CBA expiring after the 2026 season.  Rumors I have been reading throughout the sport has been there is an uneasiness as this date approaches and MLB owners are willing to lockout the players to control spending, especially the Dodgers.  I am not trying to have that debate at the moment but expressing the concern that even a new ownership may not want to expand payroll with a chance to lose money within the first 5 years of ownership.  

[tarheeltwinsfan]

6 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

not even a little. (I'm not sure he's actually going to be worth $25M in 2025, either; he's declined in value each of the last 2 years, so if that's a trend...) But it's a shame our penurious ownership makes it an utter impossibility to realistically consider. Christian Walker would have been quite a good fit, and we were never in it at all. Goldschmitt might be cooked, but a bounce back season from him would have slotted in very well with his good defense and right-handed bat. Never had a chance there either, and $12M on a 1 year deal wasn't bad.

Pohlad Twins are not gonna spend. So trade it is, hope they can find a good one.

Who are you calling "penurious"? Parsimonious, maybe, but penurious? Your mother wears combat boots.

[h2oface]

9 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Unless the sale is closer than we think and Falvey is already taking orders from a new boss, please, please don't get creative. Just put on your seatbelt, brace for the turbulence, grab the barf bags and then put this thing down in one piece. 'Getting creative' seems like the fastest way to land in the ocean since we don't have the slightest idea which direction we are ultimately heading.

My bet is his creativity is being directed towards how he is packing his bags to be ready, and how quick you can get out of town when the deal goes down......

[big dog]

9 hours ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

"The fiasco in '22 where our fantastic catching corp was demolished,"

 

Serious question- I'm confused about this quote. We traded Garver, who only caught 59 games in 2021 and has caught 67 games in the three years since. Ben Rortvedt has just completed his first full season in the majors, throwing out 15% of runners and hitting barely better than Vazquez. Is that our "fantastic catching corps" or am I missing someone?

[jmlease1]

11 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

Falvey's idea of being creative is passively sitting back (an oxymoron) & wait for offers from other FO's who want to flip or dump players. & pick the least bad one  & or normally try to find a bargain on the FA salvage heap. On rare occasions, a FO comes with a mutually beneficial offer (MIA Lopez/ Arraez) IMO we came out ahead. We had leverage over LAD because they were desperate to unload disgruntled Maeda, I'm happy with Maeda but we could have done much better on who we gave up. The rest we lost & I was vocal about it on each when they happened. The fiasco in '22 where our fantastic catching core was demolished, because of Falvey's signing of FA Josh Donaldson. Many think that the signing of Correa was a mistake. IMO we were lucky to sign Correa. Correa fell into Falvey's lap after Boras couldn't sell him & Falvey had luckily lost out on Story.

When Falvey says he going to be creative, it sends a chill down my back. That means trading someone we need to acquire someone we don't. If they can't fill our real needs then please don't be creative & stay pat. 

This is basically the "I hate our front office" version of the last 6 years. You don't actually know how any of these deals came together, so you're framing them in a way least favorable to Falvey, whom you clearly despise. You don't know who initiated the deals, you don't know if Falvey "sat passively back", etc.

Our "fantastic catching core"? Garver hasn't caught more than 30% of his appearances since he left, and Rortvedt has been injured or bad or both for most of the past 3 seasons (and got traded again). Revisionist history in the extreme...

[Aerodeliria]

Last year we couldn't even get a used Homer Hanky...oh, we got Margot, but a Homer Hanky seems more creative and interesting...

[JD-TWINS]

12 hours ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

I like both deals. I know quite a few are against Arraez but I'd love for him to be back. Like both deals, except, who is going to replace Castro? Arraez would give us depth in infield but the loss of Willi hurts OF and 3B/SS options. I'm OK with moving Zebby, he's not a guarantee and we have options plus then Cease.

Kiersey - Martin - Lee should be able to cover the innings Castro would give over a season. Assuming either Julien/Keaschall/Martin can play 2B (if Lewis doesn’t move over) ……if Lewis is at 2B, Lee/Miranda can cover 3B. Arraez plays 1B most of the time (70%). Lee is SS depth as of today (w/o Castro)……….Willi is gone in ‘26 for sure so that security of versatility is going away - deal with it now!

[big dog]

12 minutes ago, Aerodeliria said:

Last year we couldn't even get a used Homer Hanky...oh, we got Margot, but a Homer Hanky seems more creative and interesting...

And it is basically an equivalent pinch-hitter, except it can't walk to the plate by itself. Smaller strike zone, though, so that's a potential plus.

[Doctor Gast]

1 hour ago, jmlease1 said:

This is basically the "I hate our front office" version of the last 6 years. You don't actually know how any of these deals came together, so you're framing them in a way least favorable to Falvey, whom you clearly despise. You don't know who initiated the deals, you don't know if Falvey "sat passively back", etc.

Our "fantastic catching core"? Garver hasn't caught more than 30% of his appearances since he left, and Rortvedt has been injured or bad or both for most of the past 3 seasons (and got traded again). Revisionist history in the extreme...

Those who initiated these transactions are public knowledge. 

Before the trade, Our catching core of Garver, Jeffers & Rortvedt was ranked as one of the league's top. If the core was kept together & the normal transition From Garver to Rortvedt would have kept them on top. Keeping them together with the Twins, would have better managed them as far as health & productivity. You can't assume that their injuries couldn't be avoided by remaining with the Twins. Falvey hand-picked Jeffers to be the Twins primary catcher. Jeffers as the backup, he's one the best but as the primary catcher he has failed miserably.

I don't despise Falvey. I was a big fan of Falvine. Falvey was hired to create a pitching pipeline, the pipeline is now taking shape. But observing how he operates in everything else & him spinning his shortcomings I don't buy it & I won't let it slide. Thinking he's great in everything & letting him continue to operate the way he is, won't get us where we want to go.

[JD-TWINS]

Linus - anyone out there…….what will the Twins do to replace W. Castro in 2026? He’s not getting extended. Who will/how will they cover his innings?

Is the answer wildly different than what they might do to replace him in ‘25, if traded?

[JD-TWINS]

1 minute ago, Doctor Gast said:

Those who initiated these transactions are public knowledge. 

Before the trade, Our catching core of Garver, Jeffers & Rortvedt was ranked as one of the league's top. If the core was kept together & the normal transition From Garver to Rortvedt would have kept them on top. Keeping them together with the Twins, would have better managed them as far as health & productivity. You can't assume that their injuries couldn't be avoided by remaining with the Twins. Falvey hand-picked Jeffers to be the Twins primary catcher. Jeffers as the backup, he's one the best but as the primary catcher he has failed miserably.

I don't despise Falvey. I was a big fan of Falvine. Falvey was hired to create a pitching pipeline, the pipeline is now taking shape. But observing how he operates in everything else & him spinning his shortcomings I don't buy it & I won't let it slide. Thinking he's great in everything & letting him continue to operate the way he is, won't get us where we want to go.

Guys that stick with the Twins don’t or wouldn’t get hurt?

[Doctor Gast]

4 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Guys that stick with the Twins don’t or wouldn’t get hurt?

I didn't say that. I said you can't assume it. Different conditions have different results. For example, we knew Rogers,  he was great if he wasn't pitched on consecutive games. At SD surprisingly he had a great beginning pitching on consecutive games but unsurprisingly after a while he cratered.

[NeverSeenATwinsPlayoffWin]

I think the best bet would be to hope that the team gets sold in a relatively quick manner, and then use an "updated" payroll to target one of the FAs that linger on the market until May.

Ha-seong Kim won't be ready for a few months, and there are a ton of veteran relief arms that have yet to sign. I think that waiting and then signing makes more sense than trading a good hitter for a good pitcher (or vice versa), especially when there is no available payroll space. It's hard to imagine a trade happening for either Cease or King when their salaries would push the budget into the red (albeit, a Pohlad-imposed red).

 

 

[David Maro]

The organization is not going to do anything to devalue the team at this time. When selling the team with the Polhad's they will put major deals on hold. Everyone will have to wait until a new ownership comes in. This is why the only deals made this off season has been minor league deals. The FO is also going to protect their jobs,hoping to save them.

[Nick Nelson]

17 hours ago, IndianaTwin said:

I think it's doubtful the Twins will work out something with the Padres on Cease. Not because they can't, but because Falvey has always operated below the radar. Perhaps there have been some, but I don't remember any of his biggest moves having been in the rumor mill. If it's rumored, it's doubtful.

And I'm okay with that approach. 

There was buzz about the Twins and Marlins re: Lopez and Arraez for months before it happened. But that's about the only one I can think of.

[DJL44]

16 hours ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

LAD says laugh. They were able to dump Margot AND get SS Miller besides. I'm with the doctor on this one. This was Falvey's idea of creativity last February. That kind of creativity is frightening.

If you want Miller back you'll be able to draft him in the Rule 5 draft next December. He won't be protected.

[big dog]

3 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

I didn't say that. I said you can't assume it. Different conditions have different results. For example, we knew Rogers,  he was great if he wasn't pitched on consecutive games. At SD surprisingly he had a great beginning pitching on consecutive games but unsurprisingly after a while he cratered.

Garver was hurt before he left the Twins. That's why he caught fewer than 60 games in 2021. There was a real question as to whether he would catch in 2022, and he didn't.

[thelanges5]

This idea isn’t very creative. 😥 Are we at the point where we give $5 million to Bader or Grichuk to be our right handed complementary bat?

[Vanimal46]

4 minutes ago, thelanges5 said:

Are we at the point where we give $5 million to Bader or Grichuk to be our right handed complementary bat?

Pictured: Joe and Jim Pohlad

[sweetmusicviola16]

5 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

Those who initiated these transactions are public knowledge. 

Before the trade, Our catching core of Garver, Jeffers & Rortvedt was ranked as one of the league's top. If the core was kept together & the normal transition From Garver to Rortvedt would have kept them on top. Keeping them together with the Twins, would have better managed them as far as health & productivity. You can't assume that their injuries couldn't be avoided by remaining with the Twins. Falvey hand-picked Jeffers to be the Twins primary catcher. Jeffers as the backup, he's one the best but as the primary catcher he has failed miserably.

I don't despise Falvey. I was a big fan of Falvine. Falvey was hired to create a pitching pipeline, the pipeline is now taking shape. But observing how he operates in everything else & him spinning his shortcomings I don't buy it & I won't let it slide. Thinking he's great in everything & letting him continue to operate the way he is, won't get us where we want to go.

Falvey has not addressed the catching situation this off season. He hasn't gotten "creative." It's getting kicked down the road to next off season. And in my opinion has no intent to be creative. It is mere talk to try to keep the fans engaged, even has the good fortune of Cease rumors being floated around. This is just talk until ST starts and fans then are distracted by actual baseball. There is now not one FA left who is, a. realistic for us to sign or b. that I am even interested that we sign, Go with what we have entirely. I'm sick of every article bringing up the "budget."  Let's go to ST and see what we have. I believe we have an 80 win 4th place team myself. The holes this has haven't been addressed either, and they are still there.

[thelanges5]

Rays just gave Boras client, Ha-Seong Kim, a 2yr w/opt out contract. 
 

That’s the kind of “creativity” I’m talking  about here. 

[JD-TWINS]

5 hours ago, thelanges5 said:

This idea isn’t very creative. 😥 Are we at the point where we give $5 million to Bader or Grichuk to be our right handed complementary bat?

Grichuk hit .291 in ‘24…….he also had a 140 OPS+ ………2.2 WAR……..if Santana got $12M as a FA, I can’t imagine getting Grichuk for less than $10M - right?

No Bader please!!

[thelanges5]

11 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Grichuk hit .291 in ‘24…….he also had a 140 OPS+ ………2.2 WAR……..if Santana got $12M as a FA, I can’t imagine getting Grichuk for less than $10M - right?

No Bader please!!

I think Santana was an overpay and right now Grichuk is making zero dollars on his couch. Really don’t like Bader either, but was just throwing a right handed bat out there.

[JD-TWINS]

1 minute ago, thelanges5 said:

I think Santana was an overpay and right now Grichuk is making zero dollars on his couch. Really don’t like Bader either, but was just throwing a right handed bat out there.

My assumption on Grichuk being on the couch is that the market wants to pay him $5-$8M & his agent wants him to sign for $11-$14M. He’ll get signed w/o a problem. 140 OPS+ is pretty attractive, even if it’s a peak season for him.

Santana hit 23 HR’s and won a Gold Glove…..so there’s that upside that probably drove his $12M. Guardians don’t overpay too often!