Twins Announce GM Thad Levine Will Not Return for 2025

[Badgolfer34]

He is the high level fall guy. He wasn’t that involved, Didn’t have  any  interaction during press conferences , he was just riding out contract, Need to tear it down, move several players and have the Pohlads sell the team.

[Danchat]

If Pat Reusse is to be believed, he claims that Levine's contract was up. If true it's not quite a firing, but it's not as if he is immediately taking another job. They're essentially letting him go into free agency.

Still have no idea what he was doing in comparison to Falvey, but I don't mind them letting go some of the current minds in the organization. But it's hard to claim that his replacement will make much difference.

[USAFChief]

If they don't replace him, that seems like a pretty good indication of who was doing what under the PBO/GM model.

 

[Jocko87]

59 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Falvey interview on si.com makes it sound like they will just eliminate the position.

 

Haven't seen the interview yet but that was my first thought.  Looking at the front office from a corporate structure mindset the spot doesn't make a lot of sense.  It's why we don't know who does what and the most important items are fully overlapping.  The GM and assistant GM titles probably go away and they add another vice president of picnic baskets or something.

Or maybe we get some clarity on who did what.

This is also the nature of these jobs. You can only be the right hand man for so long before you have to take a bullet. I've been that guy.

[jdgoin]

21 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

It's a good start. I'm curious on what they'll do at GM and can the new GM fire Rocco if he/she/they think that's the best move? 

No, they would not be able to.

[1985Fan]

28 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Wow... this is definitely a first.  A Griffith apologist.  The list of negative things the Griffith family did to the Twins organization is so long I wouldn't even know where to start.

I have been around long enough to watch games at the Met... The 87' Twins won the WS with arguably the worst team to win a WS in the two-divsion era.  The 1991 Twins won because Scott Erickson had CY worthy season, Jack Morris had a resurgent season, Knoblauch won ROY, and a few others came together.  They went from 74 wins to 95 wins, 2 years later they were back to 71 wins. It was a perfect storm.

I am not saying the FO is without scrutiny, but you discount the growth this organization has seen since Falvy et. al. came on board.   Look at this year.  Look what they got out of what they had on the field due to injury and lack of options until everything died at the end.  To not be able to do anything to improve on last year is not a FO problem, but an ownership one.

As for Miami and Tampa having semi-regular success, it is true.  Lightning does strike for these teams before they trade everyone away.  Imagine how good those teams would be they could compete financially with ownership groups that cared about the team..

Feel free to blame the FO for everything wrong with the team right now.  The last two years ownership gave the FO some financial flexibility to work with, and look how they did.  With nothing to work with this year, the wheels fell off.  To say ownership has no responsibility here is just flat out wrong.

First, I did not defend Griffith; I merely pointed out his strength was talent recognition and player development. Also made some very good trades.
Player development is a weakness of Falvey and he certainly has missed on more trades than he has hit on. And if you want to look at facts, Twins had very good teams under Griffith until the 70’s. Current management hasn’t achieved the same success. 

I didn’t say anything about Tampa or Miami? I noted Cleveland and Detroit have lower payrolls and better teams. It’s not all about payroll! That is an excuse for Falvey and Rocco to hide behind along with the annual injuries excuse. 
 

I don’t understand why you want to disparage two WS teams. They played the games and beat the teams that they had to beat and won both titles on the field, not in some fantasy simulation. Games are won on the field, not in Rocco’s spreadsheet or Falvey stats room. 
 

You can keep buying into this management, but results are what matter. The collapse is a real event that is Falvey and Rocco’ responsibility. Period. Who buys tickets because of perceived advances by the organization?! I watch the team on the field, and they were horrible. 

[S Bart]

1 hour ago, 1985Fan said:

The Pohlad family owned the Twins and won two WS. It was because of player development, a good manager that kept the team focused on fundamentals, and some very savvy trades. It was exciting baseball to watch. I don’t like the Pohlads style, especially the new kid that seems clueless. But the payroll is not the reason this team doesn’t win championships. Cleveland and Detroit have smaller payrolls. They play fundamentally sound baseball and execute. It’s that simple. Falvey and Rocco are responsible for performance of the team, not Joe Pohlad. 
I lived through Calvin Griffith and as hated as he was, he drafted and developed most of the players that went on to win 87 WS. Blaming the owners is another way for Falvey and Rocco to escape responsibility.

It is a totally different business nowadays and comparing the WS days as well as Calvin just does not mesh. I lived through Calvin and even watched Billy manage the team. It was a different world.

Yes, they all have some responsibility but the lack of business sense that Joe Pohlad has shown has placed daggers in this team.  I have posted many examples via TD. When an owner advertises to the public after making a playoff run that funds would not be put forth the following year to improve the team and actually make cuts (Why in the world publicly advertise that information....especially after a playoff run ) and totally bungles a TV deal a few months later which resulted in fans not accessing games,,,he seems to concentrate on the teams' new unform choices and presents them via a modeling show with the players at the Mall of America ,,there is so much more..... so please...look at the facts and also compare the wise moves other team owners have made.  At least Falvey and Rocco have some knowledge of the game. Joe is a 42-year-old with a BA in Communications (which is odd considering how poorly he did with the Gleeman interview) and has run the prior Pohlad businesses that he supervised into the ground. One only needs to look at the multi million loss that took place with the media business that he ran. Skor North mentioned it this week and I fact checked it to for accuracy. Chip Scroggins had an excellent article in the Tribune earlier this week. You can see the picture of Joe at the modeling show.

[Mike Sixel]

7 minutes ago, 1985Fan said:

First, I did not defend Griffith; I merely pointed out his strength was talent recognition and player development. Also made some very good trades.
Player development is a weakness of Falvey and he certainly has missed on more trades than he has hit on. And if you want to look at facts, Twins had very good teams under Griffith until the 70’s. Current management hasn’t achieved the same success. 

I didn’t say anything about Tampa or Miami? I noted Cleveland and Detroit have lower payrolls and better teams. It’s not all about payroll! That is an excuse for Falvey and Rocco to hide behind along with the annual injuries excuse. 
 

I don’t understand why you want to disparage two WS teams. They played the games and beat the teams that they had to beat and won both titles on the field, not in some fantasy simulation. Games are won on the field, not in Rocco’s spreadsheet or Falvey stats room. 
 

You can keep buying into this management, but results are what matter. The collapse is a real event that is Falvey and Rocco’ responsibility. Period. Who buys tickets because of perceived advances by the organization?! I watch the team on the field, and they were horrible. 

I think they aren't disparging the WS teams, but this idea that the teams were even close to good most years they didn't win the WS. This site would have been calling for everyone's head after 1990.....

This idea that Kelly was awesome is odd, given he had more losing than winning seasons. And Rocco has the highest winning percentage of any Twin's manager, if results matter....

[farmerguychris]

53 minutes ago, lake_guy said:

https://www.si.com/mlb/twins/minnesota-twins-news/five-free-agents-the-twins-should-consider-this-offseason-01j9a0hy7c03

Looks like part of the MLB finances sh*t show that's arrived, wonder how much more of the FO is going to get let go.

Why stop at the Front Office.  I bet Rocco can still catch 'some' fly balls to the outfield- bring back the Player/Manager  We certainly don't need live organ music when they can just turn on the radio - that will save a few hundred bucks a game.  What about shutting off the lights during day games?  I'm sure those balls the pitcher sends back because they don't like the feel?  Have the ump toss the same ball right back to the pitcher - gotta get their monies worth out of those baseballs right?

If we've going to go cheap - then darn it, lets really go cheap.

Oh, and revenues to make up for no more TV contracts ?  Advertising - EVERYWHERE.

Think maybe I have a shot at the GM role under this ownership?

 

[Hubie29]

So does anyone know what Levine actually did? Who was more responsible for roster construction, Falvey or Levine?

[Hubie29]

3 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

I really hope the replacement comes from outside the organization. No offense to any of the internal options listed here, but I want a new voice with some new ideas in the room. 

I would change this to "offense to any of the internal options". It's time to change the "Twins way".

[Rigby]

22 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

  The GM and assistant GM titles probably go away and they add another vice president of picnic baskets or something.

 

Twins' new GM and asst. GM.

[Hubie29]

8 minutes ago, farmerguychris said:

Why stop at the Front Office.  I bet Rocco can still catch 'some' fly balls to the outfield- bring back the Player/Manager  We certainly don't need live organ music when they can just turn on the radio - that will save a few hundred bucks a game.  What about shutting off the lights during day games?  I'm sure those balls the pitcher sends back because they don't like the feel?  Have the ump toss the same ball right back to the pitcher - gotta get their monies worth out of those baseballs right?

If we've going to go cheap - then darn it, lets really go cheap.

Oh, and revenues to make up for no more TV contracts ?  Advertising - EVERYWHERE.

Think maybe I have a shot at the GM role under this ownership?

 

I love it!

[Hubie29]

47 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

It's a good start. I'm curious on what they'll do at GM and can the new GM fire Rocco if he/she/they think that's the best move? 

For heavens sake! Bite your tongue!

[Richie the Rally Goat]

2 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Twins GM Talks Draft, Risk-Taking – David Shama's Minnesota Sports Headliners (shamasportsheadliners.com)

Quoted excerpt regarding Levine:

He participated in a lot of decision making with the Rangers and that will certainly be true with the Twins.  What Minnesota fans may wonder is he more of a risk-taker, or a proceed with caution executive?

“I think some of that is circumstantial, so I would tell you I played different roles throughout my career,” Levine said. “I think Texas (the Rangers) by and large was an organization that embraced risk.  It was very risk tolerant, and I think in that environment sometimes I had to play the role of the voice of reason.

“Whereas in my early (time) in Minnesota, I may be more of the person pushing the envelope on the risk-taking side. …But I think the best decision making groups have people who represent all thoughts and all thought processes.

“I think one thing that I have found effective in my career is recognizing what the occasion calls for, and making sure I represent different points of view (so)…that we have everything really evaluated before we ultimately make our final decision.”

End Quote

I don’t read this as “risk taker” as much as “devil’s advocate”

[Craig Arko]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

No reason at all. It could be any number of things. DJL44 has a theory as valid as mine. DJL44... you and I are all watching from the bleachers. Lavine is a risk taker. I believe someone in the front office is because once he arrived we started taking those risks. They have been less risky in the past two years. That would frustrate me if I want to do well in my job. When things fall apart... fingers get pointed. Was Thad being held accountable for the things falling apart. Did he feel it was justified if that was what was happening. Does 2 and 2 add up to 4... I don't know.

It sure seems to me that he had a pretty damn good job but who knows... maybe it was a mental hell.

BTW... Derek Falvey if you are reading this. Give me a call. I'll take the job if offered. Salary negotiable. 

I am admittedly taking pieces from the personal experiences of my personal square peg with no idea if it's a round or square hole at 1 Twins Way. 

What would it take for you to leave your job in Chicago? 

What would it take for you to leave your job in Chicago and not have something else lined up? 

The multiple possible answers to these questions are the only clues that I have to work with. Those clues are not sufficient for the large number of possible explanations or any combinations of. 

 

 

You’d need to switch to a red shirt for this job.

[Battle ur tail off]

Sounds like they are "right sizing" the front office too. They might as well get rid of Rocco while they are at it and just buy a more expensive IPAD that also can shuffle batting orders every game and make pitching or pinch hitting changes based upon the outcomes of any statistical analysis. 

This move does nothing for me. Unless he was the one in charge of the tv deals. Then by all means dump him. 

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Battle ur tail off said:

Sounds like they are "right sizing" the front office too. They might as well get rid of Rocco while they are at it and just buy a more expensive IPAD that also can shuffle batting orders every game and make pitching or pinch hitting changes based upon the outcomes of any statistical analysis. 

This move does nothing for me. Unless he was the one in charge of the tv deals. Then by all means dump him. 

 

 

Every thread a Rocco thread

[bean5302]

33 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Quoted excerpt regarding Levine:

He participated in a lot of decision making with the Rangers and that will certainly be true with the Twins.  What Minnesota fans may wonder is he more of a risk-taker, or a proceed with caution executive?

“I think some of that is circumstantial, so I would tell you I played different roles throughout my career,” Levine said. “I think Texas (the Rangers) by and large was an organization that embraced risk.  It was very risk tolerant, and I think in that environment sometimes I had to play the role of the voice of reason.

“Whereas in my early (time) in Minnesota, I may be more of the person pushing the envelope on the risk-taking side. …But I think the best decision making groups have people who represent all thoughts and all thought processes.

“I think one thing that I have found effective in my career is recognizing what the occasion calls for, and making sure I represent different points of view (so)…that we have everything really evaluated before we ultimately make our final decision.”

End Quote

I don’t read this as “risk taker” as much as “devil’s advocate”

Compared to Falvey and the Pohlads is what I think is relevant. What I feel is being discussed is how Levine fit into the management style of the Twins, and I think it's safe to say it feels like Levine was more aggressive and bullish on risk.

Since the Pohlad family focused on cutting the front office last year to save money, it seems reasonable to conclude they were going to cut the front office to save more money this year.

Not sure if Levine had the option of returning or if he made the decision based on differences of opinion on the direction of the club after the new conservative payroll approach directed by the Pohlad's.

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, gunnarthor said:

It's a good start. I'm curious on what they'll do at GM and can the new GM fire Rocco if he/she/they think that's the best move? 

One solution to that conundrum would be to promote Rocco to the vacant GM chair.  I think he'd have the aptitude for the job.  And it's possible he'd hire someone as manager who was different from himself.

This answer is mostly facetious (the commentariat here would go apesh*t), but I do think a FO role would eventually suit him.  Working against that theory right now is that he probably is not ready to give up the on-field role.

As for the actual question I'm responding to, others have said nearly the same, but it's my assumption that anyone hired as GM would accept the job on the understanding that removing Rocco from the dugout is off-limits until his present contract expires (whenever the hell that actually is).  It's how things played out when FalVine themselves came on board in late 2016 and Paul Molitor remained manager until another losing season would give them cover for making a change.

The idea mentioned in this thread that Falvey alone steers the ship now, without filling the vacancy per se, is one I hadn't considered.  Certainly multiple shifts within the organization would need to occur, in effect promoting several to "assistant GM", with roles pertaining to contract negotiations and so forth.

[Battle ur tail off]

6 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Every thread a Rocco thread

Ok. Here is what I think without talking about Rocco. I think the owner wants to make more cuts. I think they are asking Falvey most likely to take over whatever it is that Levine did. I also think there will be more cuts to payroll and possibly the rest of the organization. 

The owners lost money the last few years. They flat out do not like taking losses. I can see them moving this as far downward as is possible for them to stay relatively relevant. 

And I also feel whoever negotiated this last TV deal and let the owner speak as he did before the season to pour cold water on it should have been fired. Maybe that was Lavine.

[Riverbrian]

2 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

You’d need to switch to a red shirt for this job.

Tough to find a decent job that doesn't require politics, answering to multiple supervisors with conflicting ideas and trying to pull them into one. multi-tasking, making lemonade out of lemons.    

I've been married a while with kids to raise so I'm properly trained for whatever they require of me.   

Unless of course... You mean a Target red shirt. Then... I'll put that redshirt on and study up on what aisle the kitty litters is in.    

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Riverbrian said:

Tough to find a decent job that doesn't require politics, answering to multiple supervisors with conflicting ideas and trying to pull them into one. multi-tasking, making lemonade out of lemons.    

I've been married a while with kids to raise so I'm properly trained for whatever they require of me.   

Unless of course... You mean a Target red shirt. Then... I'll put that redshirt on and study up on what aisle the kitty litters is in.    

Star trek Red shirt....

[ashbury]

3 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Tough to find a decent job that doesn't require politics, answering to multiple supervisors with conflicting ideas and trying to pull them into one. multi-tasking, making lemonade out of lemons.    

I've been married a while with kids to raise so I'm properly trained for whatever they require of me.   

Unless of course... You mean a Target red shirt. Then... I'll put that redshirt on and study up on what aisle the kitty litters is in.    

 

Quote

Star trek Red shirt....

"He's fired, Derek."

[cmoss84]

[Craig Arko]

1 minute ago, cmoss84 said:

Buy out every red shirt on the market.

Btw, many here will have no idea WTH I’m talking about. This makes me both happy and sad.

[Riverbrian]

7 minutes ago, ashbury said:

 

"He's fired, Derek."

Ahh I see.

Derek wouldn't need to fire me. I would just be killed off. 

[ashbury]

19 minutes ago, Battle ur tail off said:

This move does nothing for me. Unless he was the one in charge of the tv deals. Then by all means dump him.

[KirbyDome89]

57 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

If they don't replace him, that seems like a pretty good indication of who was doing what under the PBO/GM model.

 

This should be a bigger story....

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

If they don't replace him, that seems like a pretty good indication of who was doing what under the PBO/GM model.

I don't really disagree, but consider that the two are not really that close in age (11+ years apart), and when Falvey was brought on board there seemed to be a view in the organization that he needed an older partner with more experience.  It always seemed a bit odd that the two were jointly called Boy Wonders by their detractors.

It could be that Levine had served his purpose and now it's time to take the training wheels off for Falvey.  IOW the PBO/GM model evolved under their tenures.

Falvey's still not as old as Levine was when he was hired.