Twins Announce GM Thad Levine Will Not Return for 2025

[bean5302]

52 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Where is this quote? I'd truly like to read that article or interview.

It's hard to find much older stuff on the web now with search engines being designed more for making money than finding relevant information. I think it stems back to Levine's conversations about spending strategy. The "boot to the throat" quote which never came to fruition. Levine always felt like his personal preference was to be more aggressive to me, while Falvey is clearly a Cleveland product, and dirt cheap aligns better with ownership as well.

[bean5302]

Well, first off, as far as public knowledge goes, Falvey and Levine's contracts were up this past season. The fact Falvey is returning means the Twins have extended him either at the end of this year (I have my doubts on that) or secretly after the playoff victory last year as a recent Twins Daily article suggested a few weeks ago.

Levine has interviewed for a couple other GM jobs and he didn't make it past the first round for the Red Sox most recently. Combined with how hidden away he is with Minnesota and the lack of knowledge regarding his actual contributions, it's not a good career move to stick around the Twins any longer at this point.

Perhaps Levine was sticking around to see if he could supplant Falvey? In any case, best of luck to him, whatever opportunities he pursues.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

50 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Twins GM Talks Draft, Risk-Taking – David Shama's Minnesota Sports Headliners (shamasportsheadliners.com)

I appreciate the find.
However, it’s from May 2017, and I don’t think it says what you claim it says. Levine said he came from a risk-taking organization (Texas) and he said he attempts to balance decision making, depending on the situation. Levine does not come out and say “I’m the risk taker here” or anything like that. 

[1985Fan]

17 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

There is an unspoken ceiling with this team.  Unless this team greatly overachieves, has surprises, luck, or all, this team will habitually max out as "good to very good", never great.

The only true needle-moving thing that could happen would be a new owner.

The Pohlad family owned the Twins and won two WS. It was because of player development, a good manager that kept the team focused on fundamentals, and some very savvy trades. It was exciting baseball to watch. I don’t like the Pohlads style, especially the new kid that seems clueless. But the payroll is not the reason this team doesn’t win championships. Cleveland and Detroit have smaller payrolls. They play fundamentally sound baseball and execute. It’s that simple. Falvey and Rocco are responsible for performance of the team, not Joe Pohlad. 
I lived through Calvin Griffith and as hated as he was, he drafted and developed most of the players that went on to win 87 WS. Blaming the owners is another way for Falvey and Rocco to escape responsibility.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

4 minutes ago, 1985Fan said:

The Pohlad family owned the Twins and won two WS. It was because of player development, a good manager that kept the team focused on fundamentals, and some very savvy trades. It was exciting baseball to watch. I don’t like the Pohlads style, especially the new kid that seems clueless. But the payroll is not the reason this team doesn’t win championships. Cleveland and Detroit have smaller payrolls. They play fundamentally sound baseball and execute. It’s that simple. Falvey and Rocco are responsible for performance of the team, not Joe Pohlad. 
I lived through Calvin Griffith and as hated as he was, he drafted and developed most of the players that went on to win 87 WS. Blaming the owners is another way for Falvey and Rocco to escape responsibility.

100% correct. 

[farmerguychris]

51 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Certainly could be.

If you have heard accurately... My next question would be why? 

This part of his press release would be feeding my curiosity. 

 "pursue new challenges and opportunities, both inside and outside of baseball."  

He had a good job inside of baseball. He doesn't appear to have another job lined up and outside of baseball is still possible. 

In the end... it's just my curiosity for details that I'll never get... nor do I deserve to get.

He's gone and the team will carry on.  

 

I gotta say that as a professional, if my owners are limiting my ability to be the best I can be - I would consider leaving as well.  The recently reimposed spending restrictions would certainly make me reconsider staying on if others can provide me with better opportunities to succeed.  Take 'baseball' out of it and look at it as simply an executive role.

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, farmerguychris said:

I gotta say that as a professional, if my owners are limiting my ability to be the best I can be - I would consider leaving as well.  The recently reimposed spending restrictions would certainly make me reconsider staying on if others can provide me with better opportunities to succeed.  Take 'baseball' out of it and look at it as simply an executive role.

Without knowing anything specific.

My mind tends to drift toward what you are saying as plausible. 

Most people when they leave a job... have another lined up. Typically those that don't have another one lined up are being forced out or they leave because they are upset about something. If you don't think the situation is conducive to success... you get those resumes out and find another position.

When things fall apart... fingers get pointed. People don't like being pointed at and they will point back. 

Again... I don't know anything specific. Anything in my head is irresponsible grasping at straws based on some experience on how straws are made in other professions. 

[LA Vikes Fan]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

From what I heard, it was his choice to leave at this time. don't know the internal dynamics, though, and what part that may have played. imo, given the constraints he was given, what more could he do?

We probably should have seen this coming after he went so long on the Boston GM interview trail last winter. I think he's either looking to move up to a more powerful role in a less constrained baseball club, or will move outside of baseball for awhile. I do expect there will be a market for his services so best of luck. 

[Five minute major]

This is not enough.  Rocco needs to go as well.  We need guys who don't just look at numbers but understand the human element of baseball which is massively important.    

Also, his bad trades and personnel decisions far outweighed the good ones:

I will never forgive the CES and Steel trade for Mahle.  Worst trade in Twins history that was predicted by many.      How the heck did we hold on to Jake Cave for so long.  etc.

 

 

[DJL44]

Falvey interview on si.com makes it sound like they will just eliminate the position.

 

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

Since Falvey and Levine (lovingly referred to as Falvine by many),

Do they though? Honestly, I'm happy to put an end to this, they're different people with different responsibilities as evidenced by the disparity in job titles and pay.

I know Levine wasn't near the top of most people's replacement list, but he was near the top of mine. Maybe he's faultless and a scapegoat, but if he's the one who continues to identify these low ceiling castoff players to put on the 26-man roster, I'm happy to try someone new. Whoever is after these guys seems to think veteran players have a safe floor, but this is baseball, everyone has a low floor, there are hardly ANY safe players.

In Levine’s defense I think the scouting department and coaches have a say too as they are signing players with issues they think they can improve on and make work.  Some work out Theilbar, Wisler, Solano, Santana, Rich Hill, Odorizzi, Pineda, Maeda…. And some don’t like Mahle, Jay Jackson, Shoemaker, honestly looking back more moves worked out then not.  
 

But the reality looking forward is there are not many moves to make with the stability of this roster contractually.  Our rotation is pretty set though 2027.  The line up is mostly set too except we will probably trade players to help restock our farm system to let higher ceiling prospects play.  (E Rod and Jenkins). We have depth starters so it’s basically bench and bullpen tweaks the next 3/4 years.  Offseason shop talk will be fun……

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

I really hope the replacement comes from outside the organization. No offense to any of the internal options listed here, but I want a new voice with some new ideas in the room. 

If the new GM is a current assistant GM their replacement could come from outside too giving a new voice.

[Parfigliano]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

I really hope the replacement comes from outside the organization. No offense to any of the internal options listed here, but I want a new voice with some new ideas in the room. 

Bingo.  New ideas cause the old plan is broken.

[Rhyno006]

13 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Falvey interview on si.com makes it sound like they will just eliminate the position.

 

Just saves more money if that's the case... 

/makes fart noise

[DJL44]

14 minutes ago, Brandon said:

If the new GM is a current assistant GM their replacement could come from outside too giving a new voice.

Or they could give the front office a "right-sizing".

[TheLeviathan]

36 minutes ago, 1985Fan said:

The Pohlad family owned the Twins and won two WS. It was because of player development, a good manager that kept the team focused on fundamentals, and some very savvy trades. It was exciting baseball to watch. I don’t like the Pohlads style, especially the new kid that seems clueless. But the payroll is not the reason this team doesn’t win championships. Cleveland and Detroit have smaller payrolls. They play fundamentally sound baseball and execute. It’s that simple. Falvey and Rocco are responsible for performance of the team, not Joe Pohlad. 
I lived through Calvin Griffith and as hated as he was, he drafted and developed most of the players that went on to win 87 WS. Blaming the owners is another way for Falvey and Rocco to escape responsibility.

These things are not mutually exclusive.  They deserve zero defense.  Zero.

[lake_guy]

18 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Falvey interview on si.com makes it sound like they will just eliminate the position.

 

https://www.si.com/mlb/twins/minnesota-twins-news/five-free-agents-the-twins-should-consider-this-offseason-01j9a0hy7c03

Looks like part of the MLB finances sh*t show that's arrived, wonder how much more of the FO is going to get let go.

[TheLeviathan]

I see a few people saying "Bring someone from outside" and "new ideas".  Totally on board in principle.

However, part of what we're hearing is that Levine felt like his more aggressive, riskier inclinations were being rebuffed.  I worry someone new is only going to be hired if they have one really well developed skill: falling on the sword for ownership.

[Brett]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

But people are forgetting how truly awful this organization was before this FO arrived. Truly awful. 

This is literally the money shot here.

Bill Smith and what was left of Terry Ryan ran a rather uninspiring team from 2007 to 2016, wasting the prime Joe Mauer years.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

18 minutes ago, 1985Fan said:

The Pohlad family owned the Twins and won two WS. It was because of player development, a good manager that kept the team focused on fundamentals, and some very savvy trades. It was exciting baseball to watch. I don’t like the Pohlads style, especially the new kid that seems clueless. But the payroll is not the reason this team doesn’t win championships. Cleveland and Detroit have smaller payrolls. They play fundamentally sound baseball and execute. It’s that simple. Falvey and Rocco are responsible for performance of the team, not Joe Pohlad. 
I lived through Calvin Griffith and as hated as he was, he drafted and developed most of the players that went on to win 87 WS. Blaming the owners is another way for Falvey and Rocco to escape responsibility.

Wow... this is definitely a first.  A Griffith apologist.  The list of negative things the Griffith family did to the Twins organization is so long I wouldn't even know where to start.

I have been around long enough to watch games at the Met... The 87' Twins won the WS with arguably the worst team to win a WS in the two-divsion era.  The 1991 Twins won because Scott Erickson had CY worthy season, Jack Morris had a resurgent season, Knoblauch won ROY, and a few others came together.  They went from 74 wins to 95 wins, 2 years later they were back to 71 wins. It was a perfect storm.

I am not saying the FO is without scrutiny, but you discount the growth this organization has seen since Falvy et. al. came on board.   Look at this year.  Look what they got out of what they had on the field due to injury and lack of options until everything died at the end.  To not be able to do anything to improve on last year is not a FO problem, but an ownership one.

As for Miami and Tampa having semi-regular success, it is true.  Lightning does strike for these teams before they trade everyone away.  Imagine how good those teams would be they could compete financially with ownership groups that cared about the team..

Feel free to blame the FO for everything wrong with the team right now.  The last two years ownership gave the FO some financial flexibility to work with, and look how they did.  With nothing to work with this year, the wheels fell off.  To say ownership has no responsibility here is just flat out wrong.

[chpettit19]

16 minutes ago, Brandon said:

If the new GM is a current assistant GM their replacement could come from outside too giving a new voice.

Very true. But who's voice is going to be louder? Does the promoted GM have the same ideas and follow the same philosophies as Falvey but the replacement assistant GM has the different ideas? That isn't a situation I'm interested in as the assistant GM's vote doesn't count as much as the GM's.

I want new ideas with as much power as possible. If the assistant GM is promoted because they don't see things the same way and have the chance to implement some new strategies, great! But putting somebody with the same ideas and philosophies in Levine's spot doesn't help improve things.

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I see a few people saying "Bring someone from outside" and "new ideas".  Totally on board in principle.

However, part of what we're hearing is that Levine felt like his more aggressive, riskier inclinations were being rebuffed.  I worry someone new is only going to be hired if they have one really well developed skill: falling on the sword for ownership.

That's a no win situation then. That's not an outside hire vs internal promotion discussion, that's just Falvey being a bad leader and who takes the spot doesn't matter at all because Falvey isn't going to listen to any ideas anyways.

[TheLeviathan]

Just now, chpettit19 said:

That's a no win situation then. That's not an outside hire vs internal promotion discussion, that's just Falvey being a bad leader and who takes the spot doesn't matter at all because Falvey isn't going to listen to any ideas anyways.

Totally agree.  I might just be trying to snuff my own optimism to save myself the disappointment....

[chpettit19]

15 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Totally agree.  I might just be trying to snuff my own optimism to save myself the disappointment....

What a difference a year makes, huh?

[gunnarthor]

It's a good start. I'm curious on what they'll do at GM and can the new GM fire Rocco if he/she/they think that's the best move? 

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, gunnarthor said:

It's a good start. I'm curious on what they'll do at GM and can the new GM fire Rocco if he/she/they think that's the best move? 

Falvey said they're not making anymore changes to the baseball ops department. No new GM. It's all on Falvey now.

[chpettit19]

47 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Falvey interview on si.com makes it sound like they will just eliminate the position.

 

Interesting. Nowhere left to hide for Falvey and Rocco. Will be interesting to see if there's any drastic changes in strategy next year.

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

I mean ... does there have to be a why beyond ... it was time for him and his career to move on? I think what DJL44 pointed out above could be part of the reason ... I don't see it as a huge conflict but perhaps a difference of philosophy and needing to find a better fit for himself? I guess?

No reason at all. It could be any number of things. DJL44 has a theory as valid as mine. DJL44... you and I are all watching from the bleachers. Lavine is a risk taker. I believe someone in the front office is because once he arrived we started taking those risks. They have been less risky in the past two years. That would frustrate me if I want to do well in my job. When things fall apart... fingers get pointed. Was Thad being held accountable for the things falling apart. Did he feel it was justified if that was what was happening. Does 2 and 2 add up to 4... I don't know.

It sure seems to me that he had a pretty damn good job but who knows... maybe it was a mental hell.

BTW... Derek Falvey if you are reading this. Give me a call. I'll take the job if offered. Salary negotiable. 

I am admittedly taking pieces from the personal experiences of my personal square peg with no idea if it's a round or square hole at 1 Twins Way. 

What would it take for you to leave your job in Chicago? 

What would it take for you to leave your job in Chicago and not have something else lined up? 

The multiple possible answers to these questions are the only clues that I have to work with. Those clues are not sufficient for the large number of possible explanations or any combinations of. 

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

Not replacing him? Money, money, money. Not to mention Falvey likely was told he's fully in charge, prove it. My guesses, of course...

[HerbieFan]

Thanks for everything Thad (seriously).  Given the constraints put on you by Joe Pohlad, I'd jump ship too.  Good luck to you