Who is keeping Camargo out of the lineup?

[Riverbrian]

I have no idea if Camargo belongs in the majors or if he doesn't. I don't care because he is in the majors right now. 

However... I can't help wonder out loud. 

How bad does the manager think you are if the manager won't put you in the lineup with 8 players on the roster hitting under .200. 

How is it even possible to have ANYBODY on the 26 man roster who is getting absolutely no playing time with 8 players on the roster hitting under the Mendoza line. 

[JD-TWINS]

He’s there to allow Jeffers to DH w/o risk. It gives them a comfort feeling and the ability to potentially pinch hit for Vazquez later in a game.

Should another guy have his roster spot - certainly debatable with the shambles that is the present OF. Already have 3 guys to play 1B, so another HITTING outfielder is only option - don’t know who that may be in St. Paul ?

He can only displace Vazquez in the line-up and putting him into a line-up that’s struggling probably isn’t optimal. I get the frustration with offense!!

[TwinsDr2021]

37 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I have no idea if Camargo belongs in the majors or if he doesn't. I don't care because he is in the majors right now. 

However... I can't help wonder out loud. 

How bad does the manager think you are if the manager won't put you in the lineup with 8 players on the roster hitting under .200. 

How is it even possible to have ANYBODY on the 26 man roster who is getting absolutely no playing time with 8 players on the roster hitting under the Mendoza line. 

He should have played Tuesday when Jeffer's DHing. There is no excuse he didn't start that day.

[TwinsDr2021]

1 minute ago, JD-TWINS said:

He can only displace Vazquez in the line-up and putting him into a line-up that’s struggling probably isn’t optimal. I get the frustration with offense!!

That almost sounds like they are afraid he might do good and then they would have to sit their 10 million dollar catcher? I mean with the way Jeffers is hitting he can't be out of the lineup.

[JD-TWINS]

4 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

That almost sounds like they are afraid he might do good and then they would have to sit their 10 million dollar catcher? I mean with the way Jeffers is hitting he can't be out of the lineup.

I just think they are afraid of what pitcher to start him with……when would it make sense? Having him DH instead of how Vazquez did the other day is absolutely mystifying. He’s easily worth a shot in that scenario! He may get a pinch hit opportunity soon. If Jeffers keeps hitting everyday, his time will come. ……,Martin didn’t see the field for a bit - he’s playing now after circumstances changed.

Kepler & Wallner, with minimum expectations of .230 BA & Correa minimum at .260 & Lewis minimum at .280………..,without these guys and LEE being out, the Team can’t absorb Zero from those 5 guys. Looking to Camargo to fill any void isn’t the answer (I get he deserves a chance) ………how about Buxton & Vazquez & others picking it up a bit?

[chpettit19]

17 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

I just think they are afraid of what pitcher to start him with……when would it make sense? Having him DH instead of how Vazquez did the other day is absolutely mystifying. He’s easily worth a shot in that scenario! He may get a pinch hit opportunity soon. If Jeffers keeps hitting everyday, his time will come. ……,Martin didn’t see the field for a bit - he’s playing now after circumstances changed.

Kepler & Wallner, with minimum expectations of .230 BA & Correa minimum at .260 & Lewis minimum at .280………..,without these guys and LEE being out, the Team can’t absorb Zero from those 5 guys. Looking to Camargo to fill any void isn’t the answer (I get he deserves a chance) ………how about Buxton & Vazquez & others picking it up a bit?

Is his defense a significant concern? I haven't really watched him catch in St Paul so I don't know. Weird to have a catcher on your 40-man who you don't trust to catch your pitchers. If you can't start him with any of your pitchers he's a pretty useless player unless you're going to transition him to 1B/DH.

[JD-TWINS]

Just now, chpettit19 said:

Is his defense a significant concern? I haven't really watched him catch in St Paul so I don't know. Weird to have a catcher on your 40-man who you don't trust to catch your pitchers. If you can't start him with any of your pitchers he's a pretty useless player unless you're going to transition him to 1B/DH.

If you just want to be contrary say so. He’s a ROOKIE! Am assuming they have more confidence in interaction with the pitcher from a guy they signed due to his defensive prowess AND the ability to interact with the staff.

Obviously, I think he’s physically capable of catching in MLB.

If Camargo is sent down this morning it has no affect on the Club. He’s insurance to not get into a pinch with Jeffers forced into DH spot.

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

If you just want to be contrary say so. He’s a ROOKIE! Am assuming they have more confidence in interaction with the pitcher from a guy they signed due to his defensive prowess AND the ability to interact with the staff.

Obviously, I think he’s physically capable of catching in MLB.

If Camargo is sent down this morning it has no affect on the Club. He’s insurance to not get into a pinch with Jeffers forced into DH spot.

I'm not being contrary, I asked you a question. I don't know what his defense is considered to be like so I was asking if you felt that'd be a reason they wouldn't trust him to catch.

This thread is asking why Camargo wouldn't get the chance to hit when 8 guys (including Christian Vazquez) are hitting under .200. If the answer is "his defense is so bad behind the plate they don't trust him to catch" then ok, that would make sense. But this thread is literally asking why they wouldn't try him in the lineup when the lineup can't score and it's costing the team games. Vazquez is hitting .133/.156/.233/.390. How bad does Camargo's defense, even as a rookie, have to be to not be trusted over that? 

[Squirrel]

Maybe the pitchers don’t want him to catch them? Who knows. But it’s more likely that everyone from the manager and coaches to the FO are just horrible at their jobs and being nefarious in some way 

[Riverbrian]

17 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

He’s there to allow Jeffers to DH w/o risk. It gives them a comfort feeling and the ability to potentially pinch hit for Vazquez later in a game.

Should another guy have his roster spot - certainly debatable with the shambles that is the present OF. Already have 3 guys to play 1B, so another HITTING outfielder is only option - don’t know who that may be in St. Paul ?

He can only displace Vazquez in the line-up and putting him into a line-up that’s struggling probably isn’t optimal. I get the frustration with offense!!

Jeffers is one of a tiny number of players in the lineup putting a barrel on the baseball at the moment. If Jeffers isn't catching... I'd certainly DH him to keep his bat in the lineup as close to every day as humanly possible at the moment.

So... that puts Camargo on the roster to play the "Gardenhire fear of losing the DH" role? We can't afford that.

If the manager feels that Camargo can't out perform Vazquez even for a game. He must be removed from the roster and replaced with... Umm... 

Just like you... I also don't know who and I won't pretend to.

I'm just wondering how low a player has to be in the eyes of a manager to not be tried in the current circumstances and if he is that low in the eyes of the manager... he has no business being on the roster when the roster is dying for offense. 

I'm not very keen on the Vazquez defensive value discussion when Vazquez played DH against the Tigers.  😉

 

 

 

[Craig Arko]

He’ll go back to St. Paul in a few days when Kepler comes back.

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

He should have played Tuesday when Jeffer's DHing. There is no excuse he didn't start that day.

Or Sunday after the double header or Saturday during one of the games of the double header. 

Or Wednesday when Vazquez was the DH? 

 

[Riverbrian]

14 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

He’ll go back to St. Paul in a few days when Kepler comes back.

That is very safe to assume unless... 

One of Julien, Jeffers, Buxton, Kirilloff, Miranda, Larnach, Martin, Castro, Farmer, Vazquez, Santana or Margot takes a fast ball off his hand or pulls a hammy in the next couple of days. 

 

[Riverbrian]

I'll also add this. 

If the Manager feels that Camargo is too risky to play when the collective team batting average is .193 after 17 games. When Vazquez is sporting a .389 OPS. 

The catcher position wasn't sufficiently covered during the off-season. 

 

[Parfigliano]

43 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Maybe the pitchers don’t want him to catch them? Who knows. But it’s more likely that everyone from the manager and coaches to the FO are just horrible at their jobs and being nefarious in some way 

Im with your horrible at their jobs theory.

[Squirrel]

17 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

Im with your horrible at their jobs theory.

I was being a little bit over the top. While I don't think we have the greatest out there, I don't think we have the worst, either. And I think compared to what most everyone on these boards would do, I think they do better. Most on these boards are without all the details and are way too emotional and reactionary. That said, I don't know why Camargo hasn't played yet. I wish they'd give us a public explanation, but what do they say? 'We don't think he's good enough.' 'He's not ready yet.' 'Our pitchers don't want him.' 'We don't trust him.' 'We're stupid and stubborn and refuse to play him.' I mean, honestly, who knows? It's certainly frustrating to see these rookies get called up only to sit. I mean, play them, for goodness sakes. Who knows who will spark and we certainly need a spark right now. Why bother otherwise? But then, maybe it's just easier for me to detach from these things than others. 

[umterp23]

$10MM per year is the starting point, all other comments from above are valid.  Farmer while not doing in such a long time was touted as an emergency catcher option.  So theoretically, Carmargo isn't needed

[USAFChief]

I don't think anyone from the front office to the manager really wants Camargo on the Twins 26 man roster, but the rules say you gotta have 26, and the 40 man options available were Camargo, Yunior Severino, and Emmanuel Rodriguez.

Rodriguez is probably not an option (in AA).

So one of Severino or Camargo was going to come up, get MLB meal money,  minimum salary, and great seats for a few games. The Twins will effectively play with 12 position players until someone comes off the IL.

When major league pitching staffs take 13 roster spots, one of the unfortunate side effects is pitchers are also going to eat up a huge part of your 40 man. Particularly when a working philosophy is to shuttle relievers back and forth from AAA at the drop of a hat. Position player options get limited quickly.

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, Squirrel said:

Maybe the pitchers don’t want him to catch them? Who knows. But it’s more likely that everyone from the manager and coaches to the FO are just horrible at their jobs and being nefarious in some way 

Then he shouldn't be on the roster.

I don't get calling him up not to play him. It literally makes zero sense to carry a guy you refuse to play. 

[Squirrel]

4 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Then he shouldn't be on the roster.

I don't get calling him up not to play him. It literally makes zero sense to carry a guy you refuse to play. 

I agree. But the question was who's keeping him from playing and why. Can't know that but I think Chief gave the most reasonable explanation. I think I clarified my position in my next post. So keep reading. Yeah, I'd like him to get a chance to play, but it is what it is.

[Riverbrian]

2 hours ago, USAFChief said:

I don't think anyone from the front office to the manager really wants Camargo on the Twins 26 man roster, but the rules say you gotta have 26, and the 40 man options available were Camargo, Yunior Severino, and Emmanuel Rodriguez.

Rodriguez is probably not an option (in AA).

So one of Severino or Camargo was going to come up, get MLB meal money,  minimum salary, and great seats for a few games. The Twins will effectively play with 12 position players until someone comes off the IL.

When major league pitching staffs take 13 roster spots, one of the unfortunate side effects is pitchers are also going to eat up a huge part of your 40 man. Particularly when a working philosophy is to shuttle relievers back and forth from AAA at the drop of a hat. Position player options get limited quickly.

I think you are probably right that 26 and 40 man considerations is the reason he is here. Camargo replacing Kepler on the 26 man is certainly not a defensive match. 

Yet he is here. 

A low bar to clear is a popular metaphor.

Camargo currently has an offensive bar laying on the ground to step over.  

 

[Mike Sixel]

If they won't play him over Vazquez right now, they didn't plan for any injury to a catcher. He's here. Give him a shot. 

[RpR]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

If they won't play him over Vazquez right now, they didn't plan for any injury to a catcher. He's here. Give him a shot. 

I really, really , really do not want to say this, BUT , I agree with you.

Twins could trade Larnach for Rortvedt who is as I type this batting .320; he has zero home runs so maybe he dumped the Twins swing for the fences BS, and just tries to hit the ball.🤯

[Greglw3]

On 4/16/2024 at 11:59 AM, nicksaviking said:

Nothing wrong, but who's getting the boot in St. Paul? Not sure that I see a hitter there that I'd want to replace with Kemp. Tanner Morris I suppose?

It's not a big deal, but this signing should be pointless. If the team gets to the point where they actually need someone like Kemp, there's zero reason why you wouldn't just call up Prato/Williams/Helman or any of the other similar players instead.

 

 

4 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

He’s there to allow Jeffers to DH w/o risk. It gives them a comfort feeling and the ability to potentially pinch hit for Vazquez later in a game.

Should another guy have his roster spot - certainly debatable with the shambles that is the present OF. Already have 3 guys to play 1B, so another HITTING outfielder is only option - don’t know who that may be in St. Paul ?

He can only displace Vazquez in the line-up and putting him into a line-up that’s struggling probably isn’t optimal. I get the frustration with offense!!

You have to believe Camargo can outhit Vazquez. Vazquez hitting .133, Camargo over .280 AAA.

DaShawn Keirsey is a sweet swing outfielder 7/7 in steals and upper .800s OPS. Easy calls. The whole OF is hitting terribly.

[nicksaviking]

If he could pinch run, I'm sure he'd have played every game. It's the only reason why Martin got on the field the first week he was up.

This does seem really odd though. Santana has been terrible and they gave him two days off. They won't do the same to Vazquez who has been just as bad? For as much as Baldelli seems to endear himself to players like Gardenhire, his distaste for young players is much more reminiscent of Kelly.

Think of it this way Rocco, if you put them in the lineup, at least they're out on the field for half the game instead of annoying you on the bench for the full game.

[JD-TWINS]

3 minutes ago, Greglw3 said:

 

You have to believe Camargo can outhit Vazquez. Vazquez hitting .133, Camargo over .280 AAA.

DaShawn Keirsey is a sweet swing outfielder 7/7 in steals and upper .800s OPS. Easy calls. The whole OF is hitting terribly.

I love Kiersey after last year in St Paul - wasn’t sure what he’s doing this year. He’d have to displace Larnach……..may be a while.

Frankly, .280 in AAA may translate to .270 all the way down to .100 in the Show. Nobody knows. I get it, give him a chance!

Vazquez throws (has done it in 3 different games I’ve seen) guys out - handles the pitchers well & is familiar. Camargo has an uphill challenge unless they give him a shot at DH when Jeffers catches. With platooning catchers daily, there is no fatigue issue. He doesn’t move the needle hitting .210 and being no better, for sure, defensively.

[RpR]

7 minutes ago, Greglw3 said:

 

You have to believe Camargo can outhit Vazquez. Vazquez hitting .133, Camargo over .280 AAA.

DaShawn Keirsey is a sweet swing outfielder 7/7 in steals and upper .800s OPS. Easy calls. The whole OF is hitting terribly.

Stevenson was bullying AAA pitching last year, came up, Major League pitchers played games with his bat.

Martin has so far, done what they hoped Stevenson would do last year.

[DocBauer]

I think we've clearly established the "why" he's there. Other than Emma...and you're not starting his clock a this point by promoting him from AA...you've got Severino and Camargo. Every single other position player you might promote would need to be added to the 40 man. So now you've got to release someone, or, put yet another player on the 60 day IL.

So Camargo gives you catching insurance. OK. Understood. Probably the best of the remaining options available.

But considering Camargo is on the 40 man,  considering he spent all but a day or two with the Twins in ST, considering he played in 9 games in ST, you'd THINK he has some ability behind the plate. We've seen he's got some bat ability. So the only reason he's not getting a chance to play over the veteran but POORLY performing Vazquez is stubborness. 

If the kid is good enough to be on your 40 man, and good enough to get a promotion, then he's good enough to get a chance to play, get introduced to the ML level, and see what he can do. What's he going to do at this point, produce worse than Vazquez?

Camargo might only be here as that last man on the bench for a week until being sent down again. So MAYBE the thinking is, just no sense to play the new guy when he's going to be gone right away. But that's incredibly short sighted no matter what angle you take to examine the situation.

[DocBauer]

16 minutes ago, Greglw3 said:

 

You have to believe Camargo can outhit Vazquez. Vazquez hitting .133, Camargo over .280 AAA.

DaShawn Keirsey is a sweet swing outfielder 7/7 in steals and upper .800s OPS. Easy calls. The whole OF is hitting terribly.

I'm hoping Keirsey is a solid, late bloomer. He's really found his game the last year or so, and is off to a good start this season at AAA. But he's not on the 40  man. So you have to DFA someone or move yet another someone to the 60 day IL to add and promote him. 

[LA Vikes Fan]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

I don't think anyone from the front office to the manager really wants Camargo on the Twins 26 man roster, but the rules say you gotta have 26, and the 40 man options available were Camargo, Yunior Severino, and Emmanuel Rodriguez.

Rodriguez is probably not an option (in AA).

So one of Severino or Camargo was going to come up, get MLB meal money,  minimum salary, and great seats for a few games. The Twins will effectively play with 12 position players until someone comes off the IL.

When major league pitching staffs take 13 roster spots, one of the unfortunate side effects is pitchers are also going to eat up a huge part of your 40 man. Particularly when a working philosophy is to shuttle relievers back and forth from AAA at the drop of a hat. Position player options get limited quickly.

This. Severino isn't hitting at all in AAA so Camargo was effectively the only choice. Still, he's here so why not give him 10-15 ABs while he's up instead of making Vasquez a DH? Who knows, we might catch lightning in a bottle. It's not like we got anyone else to play any way and Larnach can go back to AAA when Kepler is ready. Give them both some ABs and let the better hitter win.