The Jorge Polanco Trade Fails the Simplest of Tests

[Cory Engelhardt]

7 minutes ago, Reptevia said:

Literally no one is saying Disco is a Gray replacement. Point is, Gray is gone. The Twins were never going to go out and buy a Gray replacement. With that in mind, is the pitching staff better with Disco and Topa?  Yes. Is it it better to replace and aging injury prone infielder with capable younger guys?  Probably. 

Agreed completely 

[jorgenswest]

DeSclafini and Bundy are very similar. We are hoping on DeSclafini’s good season two years ago. Did we forget that Bundy received Cy Young votes two years prior to joining the Twins? DeSclafini’s ERA last year was 4.88 after a good start. Bundy’s ERA with the Twins was 4.89 after a good start. They have similar strike out rates and walk rates.

Is there a risk that the Twins will keep giving DeSclafini starts because they did not find a better alternative? Would this deal had been better if DeSclafini were not included?

[FlyingFinn]

The Twins have really done exactly what they told us that they would this offseason. Falvey said we are lowering payroll. Check. Rocco says a big move is coming. Check. The Twins really believe in Brooks Lee. I'm surprised they are as open as they have been. Now, did Falvey say it?, we are going to add a RH bat who can play OF or maybe 1B. Duvall really checks those boxes IMO.

[IndianaTwin]

13 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

DeSclafini and Bundy are very similar. We are hoping on DeSclafini’s good season two years ago. Did we forget that Bundy received Cy Young votes two years prior to joining the Twins? DeSclafini’s ERA last year was 4.88 after a good start. Bundy’s ERA with the Twins was 4.89 after a good start. They have similar strike out rates and walk rates.

Is there a risk that the Twins will keep giving DeSclafini starts because they did not find a better alternative? Would this deal had been better if DeSclafini were not included?

The last part of your first question is key. After a good start, Bundy kept getting starts because the alternatives were Anibel Sanchez, Devin Smeltzer, Randy Dobnak, Chi Chi Gonzalez and the 2022 versions of Varland, Woods Richardson and Sands.

I think we're optimistic that this year's 7-12 are better than that crew. If they are, and if DeSclafini is at 4.89, I doubt he gets 29 starts like Bundy did. 

[DocBauer]

Over night to reflect and ponder and consider other opinions.

I'm going to agree with John on this. I still don't like the trade. And the reason I don't like it has nothing to do with the value the Twins got. They got a pen arm that might rival Jax and Stewart, I just don't know enough about his 1 really good season last year to accurately comment. And they got a young, talented top 100 prospect who was Seattle's #3 prospect. They also got $8M thrown in. Adding a low A ball flier and Descalfini as hopefully baseball prayer option to return to his 2021 form aren't even necessary for the Twins to have "won" this trade.

The reason I don't like it...and what I think John is saying...is that it doesn't do anything to help 2024. Polanco is still a really good hitter. He's valuable. There's a reason Seattle really wanted him. And he would still have been valuable for the Twins this coming season seeing time at 2B/DH/possibly 1B and occasionally at 3B even. But he was the right guy to move to add a quality arm to the rotation. And I don't have a problem with him being traded. And the package they got back...based on value...was very good.

But it didn't fulfill the #1 priority for 2024 that remains adding a high quality arm for the rotation. Whether it be Seattle, Miami, or team X, if Polanco was worth a solid pen arm, a top 100 prospect, $8M in cash, and a couple other flier arms, then why on earth couldn't Polanco and a solid prospect or two be put together for a package to bring in that good arm? Isn't that still the #1 priority for this team?

So to me, it's not a "winning value" for the trade. It's about removing a very good hitter from the club and adding a pen arm for 2024 and a cross your fingers and hope rotation arm.

Now, if this move is followed by another move for an arm, and this trade assisted in making that happen in any way, I will completely re-think my opinion of the trade. But as it stands at this moment, I don't like it as I don't think it properly addressed 2024 needs and improvements.

 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

8 minutes ago, IndianaTwin said:

The last part of your first question is key. After a good start, Bundy kept getting starts because the alternatives were Anibel Sanchez, Devin Smeltzer, Randy Dobnak, Chi Chi Gonzalez and the 2022 versions of Varland, Woods Richardson and Sands.

I think we're optimistic that this year's 7-12 are better than that crew. If they are, and if DeSclafini is at 4.89, I doubt he gets 29 starts like Bundy did. 

Dylan Bundy average 89 mph on fastball,  and Desclafani averaging 93 mph (but closer to his average of 94 to 95 mph early in the season when healthy are completely different situations).  Bundy's injuries had already zapped his velocity.  

[Hubie29]

1 hour ago, arby58 said:

We have decent chances to be #2 or #3 in Ober and Ryan. Paddack is probably going to be too innings-limited to reach that level. 

What I am saying is if we could trade for a legit #2 starter, we could make Ryan, Paddack and Ober 3,4,5.  Varland and Winder in the wings.  It would make our rotation pretty good!

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

2 minutes ago, DocBauer said:

The reason I don't like it...and what I think John is saying...is that it doesn't do anything to help 2024. Polanco is still a really good hitter. He's valuable. There's a reason Seattle really wanted him. And he would still have been valuable for the Twins this coming season seeing time at 2B/DH/possibly 1B and occasionally at 3B even. But he was the right guy to move to add a quality arm to the rotation. And I don't have a problem with him being traded. And the package they got back...based on value...was very good.

But it didn't fulfill the #1 priority for 2024 that remains adding a high quality arm for the rotation. Whether it be Seattle, Miami, or team X, if Polanco was worth a solid pen arm, a top 100 prospect, $8M in cash, and a couple other flier arms, then why on earth couldn't Polanco and a solid prospect or two be put together for a package to bring in that good arm? Isn't that still the #1 priority for this team?

So to me, it's not a "winning value" for the trade. It's about removing a very good hitter from the club and adding a pen arm for 2024 and a cross your fingers and hope rotation arm.

 

Saying Desclafani and Topa will not help the team in 2024 is your perspective only.  Now its clear the Twins wanted Miller or Woo and were close, but ultimately its clear the Mariners were not going to part with either.  Polanco was never going to get you that high end starter you want.  If the Twins want to go for that,  its going to cost 1 of 5 players,  Lewis, Julien, Lee or Walker and possibly Soto.   Mariners were the team willing to offer the most for Polanco, end of story, they maximized their value with what the Mariners were willing to give up and they were unwilling to go Miller or Woo.  

Where is that high end starter coming from,  you are also ignoring that the Twins could do something else this offseason or 2 that you may have more pieces to trade for a starter at the deadline.  

I think Topa and Desclafani are more than just a low end pen arm and cross your fingers starter.  Right now its your #3 to #4 reliever, and most likely a #4 to #5 starter that has the possibility at being a strong #3, low end #2.   Also if Desclafani is the real deal,  it allows Varland to become a full time reliever, and now we are talking about a very very strong bullpen.   

Look there is a ton of projection here.  You are also projecting that Polanco can stay healthy.  This trade gave us additional flexibility,  it added to our coffers for another potential move as well.   I will wait to see what the final roster is,  but I like the trade.   

The majority of this trade is tied to Gonzalez though.   

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

I will laugh though if the Twins flip Gonzalez and a prospect or a current pitcher for a high end #2.  Would make a lot of this consternation all for naught.  

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

6 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

Hats off to SEA for trimming their unneeded fat & filling a gaping need that improves their chances of advancing into the postseason. We lost a great clubhouse guy, clutch switch hitter & above average, 2Bman & gained nothing. That's not how trades are supposed to work. It's time to get rid of this FO.

Just to make sure you are calling 8 million dollars,  a very solid reliever,  a top 100 prospect and Desclafani, fat that needed trimmed????

I agree with some of your takes this is just dumb.   Now could the trade go sideways,  absolutely.  Could Polo get injured for the season in spring training, absolutely.  Just as much possibility as Gonzalez raking and having the highest BA in high A ball (like he did in A ball) and establishing himself as one of the top 4 prospects in our system.  

We traded from a position of strength.  Now we have more to do.  If we add an additional right handed bat,  it immensely changes the calculus on this trade.  

If we use one of these parts from this trade or another similar piece to trade for a high end starter,  it changes the calculus on this trade.  Its pretty clear we got the most value that anyone was willing to offer for Polanco.  

I seem to remember similar consternation for the trade of Rogers for Pagan and Paddack.  No offense but the Twins won that trade hands down.  Its taken some time,  and an additional contract,  but we are looking at 2 years of a healthy Paddack and we got a decent Pagan last year.  

The twins management are very willing to take on a lot of risk in their trades.  Over time, and over multiple trades,  that risk taking tends to payoff.  It can take time.  They also have clearly targeted injured players in trade returns.  The biggest trade not working out was Mahle.  However the Rogers for Paddack and Pagan, the twins trade for Maeda obviously worked in the Twins advantage. Paddack has the potential of being a homerun.    

[Doctor Gast]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

They just won the division and advanced in the playoffs, and you want to fire the FO? Unreal.

I guess I'm just frustrated w/ this FO inability to initiate a trade deal. Years past fans complained about lack of trades  & they'd make the excuse that "there were no trades out there", translated meaning no one is approaching them with offers or offers they liked (although those trades would greatly help the team). The truth was there were a lot of trade opportunities to be & were gotten but this FO refused to do so, they'd rather waste money on expensive loser FAs. There are still good trades out there this offseason but our FO is waiting in their office waiting for an offer to come to them that they like.

Note: This FO has made a few good trades but only when they were approached with the offers never vice versa.

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

"still" I mean, sure, if 2-3 months in AAA shows us anything much......He was in AAA less than a year from being drafted, and people say he hasn't shown anything....

Brooks Lee has had an impressive fast rise through the system... that is why you, I and others are very excited about Brooks Lee. 

However... Can we exhibit just a little bit of patience and not punch that clock until we are absolutely sure he is the absolute best option to promote. 

If he is as good as everyone says he is or as good as his meteoric rise suggests he is... Can we at least consider the ramifications of future years of control because if he is as good as everyone says he is... those future years of control are HUGE. Can we at least try to calculate the cost of leap frogging players already on the 40 man roster like Martin for example. 

Brooks Lee doesn't have to be added to the 40 man until December 2025. If you add him to the roster this summer as a 23 year old... he will be a free agent sooner because his clock gets started. 

If you are going to start his clock... I'd rather he demonstrate promotable numbers in AAA first... I'd rather he demonstrate that he is the best option to call up first.

I'd also like to consider Austin Martin and Yunior Severino as well... and Trevor Larnach. Those players are burning options right now... they have moved up in the queue. Larnach has one option left. If you promote Lee over Larnach... you might as well just throw Larnach away just so you can start the clock on Brooks Lee early.

So... the early promotion of Lee not only cost you a year of control but it can cost you a player like Larnach because someone has to come off that 40 man to make room and you just took Larnach's last chance and gave it to Lee so why not Larnach.  If Larnach keeps his roster spot but Lee got his opportunity. Larnach is now Nick Gordon next year... just plain out of options with no wiggle room remaining.

So... please for the love of God... can we wait just a bit and make sure that Brooks Lee is out performing Larnach, Martin and Severino before we rush him into a big league uniform. 

 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

15 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

I guess I'm just frustrated w/ this FO inability to initiate a trade deal. Years past fans complained about lack of trades  & they'd make the excuse that "there were no trades out there", translated meaning no one is approaching them with offers or offers they liked (although those trades would greatly help the team). The truth was there were a lot of trade opportunities to be & were gotten but this FO refused to do so, they'd rather waste money on expensive loser FAs.

Note: This FO has made a few good trades but only when they were approached with the offers never vice versa.

So who realistically do the Twins get that you would be happy with?   It takes 2 to tango.   

I think the Pablo trade,  negates most of the concerns you have.  We found our #1 pitcher,  the hardest thing to find.  I am willing to give the team a chance to find its #2 and it may already be on the team.   

[nicksaviking]

6 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

I guess I'm just frustrated w/ this FO inability to initiate a trade deal. Years past fans complained about lack of trades  & they'd make the excuse that "there were no trades out there", translated meaning no one is approaching them with offers or offers they liked (although those trades would greatly help the team). The truth was there were a lot of trade opportunities to be & were gotten but this FO refused to do so, they'd rather waste money on expensive loser FAs.

Note: This FO has made a few good trades but only when they were approached with the offers never vice versa.

You're kidding right? The front office has traded for a starter just about every year. And there is zero chance, ZERO that you have any knowledge of how those trades transpired. Again. ZERO.

In fact, of Odorizzi, Maeda, Paddock, Gray and Lopez, none of them were traded for prior to February 14th. That's a half month away. And a couple of those guys were acquired in March and April. So maybe you're jumping the gun a bit here. The offseason isn't over.

[Woof Bronzer]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

They just won the division and advanced in the playoffs, and you want to fire the FO? Unreal.

They won a division that literally no other team tried to win (in fact Cleveland and Chicago actively tried to lose)  They "advanced" in a playoff round that did not exist for baseball's first 120 years.  Minnesota sports always has the lowest bar imaginable, but "FO is now untouchable after 1 playoff win in 7 years" is about as low as it gets.  Dream bigger!  

[Doctor Gast]

16 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

Just to make sure you are calling 8 million dollars,  a very solid reliever,  a top 100 prospect and Desclafani, fat that needed trimmed????

I agree with some of your takes this is just dumb.   Now could the trade go sideways,  absolutely.  Could Polo get injured for the season in spring training, absolutely.  Just as much possibility as Gonzalez raking and having the highest BA in high A ball (like he did in A ball) and establishing himself as one of the top 4 prospects in our system.  

We traded from a position of strength.  Now we have more to do.  If we add an additional right handed bat,  it immensely changes the calculus on this trade.  

If we use one of these parts from this trade or another similar piece to trade for a high end starter,  it changes the calculus on this trade.  Its pretty clear we got the most value that anyone was willing to offer for Polanco.  

I tend to agree with you but Polo isn't injury prone. when given the proper time to heal he bounces back pretty quickly so he'll start with a clean slate. But could he be HBP & get a concussion? yes but so could Julien. 

Any of those pieces of the trade wouldn't have any impact of getting the front-end SP that we need if Polanco couldn't by himself. We don't need a CF, certainly not a 1Bman. We have Julien, Kiriloff, Miranda & Farmer. I'd rather have Polanco than any player obtained to jam into CF or 1B.

[jaydanger37]

7 hours ago, Doctor Wu said:

I agree. I don't think the trade makes us worse at all. Polanco was a very good player --- when he was healthy. But age and injury concerns, combined with the need to give our younger players and prospects more playing time  made him expendable. Plus, we got a good bullpen piece and a veteran pitcher who MAY shore up the starting rotation. The young prospects obviously won't factor in the mix this season, but I think we still improved the team with this trade. 

Well said. Polonco was blocking younger (and more productive) guys from playing time and roster spaces. Having too many quality options in the infield is a good problem to have, but moving him for a need (pitching) only makes the team better, not worse. We needed to move him, and there was no way we were going to get a Pablo Lopez level contributor back for him like some people expected. 

[DJL44]

2 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

I tend to agree with you but Polo isn't injury prone

History shows most second basemen in their thirties are injury prone.

[Doctor Gast]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

You're kidding right? The front office has traded for a starter just about every year. And there is zero chance, ZERO that you have any knowledge of how those trades transpired. Again. ZERO.

Only most have been reported as a matter of fact. There might be some minor deals like Romo or Dwyer. that they initiated but not major ones. Even this Polanco trade SEA was the major instigator.

Often you hear FO saying we pursuing this FA or that FA, or we're taking offers. How often have you heard this FO say we pursuing this trade? I have never personally heard them say that. It's a matter of observation & using common sense.

[DocBauer]

17 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

Saying Desclafani and Topa will not help the team in 2024 is your perspective only.  Now its clear the Twins wanted Miller or Woo and were close, but ultimately its clear the Mariners were not going to part with either.  Polanco was never going to get you that high end starter you want.  If the Twins want to go for that,  its going to cost 1 of 5 players,  Lewis, Julien, Lee or Walker and possibly Soto.   Mariners were the team willing to offer the most for Polanco, end of story, they maximized their value with what the Mariners were willing to give up and they were unwilling to go Miller or Woo.  

Where is that high end starter coming from,  you are also ignoring that the Twins could do something else this offseason or 2 that you may have more pieces to trade for a starter at the deadline.  

I think Topa and Desclafani are more than just a low end pen arm and cross your fingers starter.  Right now its your #3 to #4 reliever, and most likely a #4 to #5 starter that has the possibility at being a strong #3, low end #2.   Also if Desclafani is the real deal,  it allows Varland to become a full time reliever, and now we are talking about a very very strong bullpen.   

Look there is a ton of projection here.  You are also projecting that Polanco can stay healthy.  This trade gave us additional flexibility,  it added to our coffers for another potential move as well.   I will wait to see what the final roster is,  but I like the trade.   

The majority of this trade is tied to Gonzalez though.   

I just want to be clear I never said Topa would not help the 2024 Twins. In fact, I called him "a solid pen arm". I think the jury is out as to where he fits in the pen pecking order, but he's a solid add. I'm kind of excited to have him.

The fliers I'm referring to are a 23yo A ball arm and Desclafini. Now, if the 2021 Desclafini would show up this season, WOW, the Twins win this deal every day of the week. But he appeared in only 5 games and threw 19 total innings in 2022 due to injury. He got off to a nice start in 2023 before a bad elbow ended up shutting down his season and he underwent plasma rich treatments. At almost 34yo and two poor, injured seasons in a row, doesn't he qualify as a flier?

Gonzalez is a nice pick up. So is Topa. If the Twins still find a way to add a quality arm to the rotation, then that changes the complexion of this trade. It's not that the Twins got fleeced by the Mariners, my problem is it didn't fill the #1 need the Twins had entering the off season, and still have, which is a quality rotation arm. And my argument remains if Seattle wanted him that bad, and he was worth their #3 prospect, Topa, $8M in cash, plus an A ball flier and Desclafini, then why didn't the Twins add to Polanco in the trade and pry away one of Seattle's younger, better arms? If the Mariners didn't want to do that no matter what, then maybe Polanco was traded to the wrong team?

Again, it's not the Twins getting bad value for Polanco. It's that they moved a really nice player and trade chip without addressing their #1 priority. And that's why I don't like the deal. But you're right, it's my perspective.

 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

8 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

I tend to agree with you but Polo isn't injury prone. when given the proper time to heal he bounces back pretty quickly so he'll start with a clean slate. But could he be HBP & get a concussion? yes but so could Julien. 

Any of those pieces of the trade wouldn't have any impact of getting the front-end SP that we need if Polanco couldn't by himself. We don't need a CF, certainly not a 1Bman. We have Julien, Kiriloff, Miranda & Farmer. I'd rather have Polanco than any player obtained to jam into CF or 1B.

I tend to think back injuries and lower leg injuries can be chronic.  

[Mike Sixel]

44 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Brooks Lee has had an impressive fast rise through the system... that is why you, I and others are very excited about Brooks Lee. 

However... Can we exhibit just a little bit of patience and not punch that clock until we are absolutely sure he is the absolute best option to promote. 

If he is as good as everyone says he is or as good as his meteoric rise suggests he is... Can we at least consider the ramifications of future years of control because if he is as good as everyone says he is... those future years of control are HUGE. Can we at least try to calculate the cost of leap frogging players already on the 40 man roster like Martin for example. 

Brooks Lee doesn't have to be added to the 40 man until December 2025. If you add him to the roster this summer as a 23 year old... he will be a free agent sooner because his clock gets started. 

If you are going to start his clock... I'd rather he demonstrate promotable numbers in AAA first... I'd rather he demonstrate that he is the best option to call up first.

I'd also like to consider Austin Martin and Yunior Severino as well... and Trevor Larnach. Those players are burning options right now... they have moved up in the queue. Larnach has one option left. If you promote Lee over Larnach... you might as well just throw Larnach away just so you can start the clock on Brooks Lee early.

So... the early promotion of Lee not only cost you a year of control but it can cost you a player like Larnach because someone has to come off that 40 man to make room and you just took Larnach's last chance and gave it to Lee so why not Larnach.  If Larnach keeps his roster spot but Lee got his opportunity. Larnach is now Nick Gordon next year... just plain out of options with no wiggle room remaining.

So... please for the love of God... can we wait just a bit and make sure that Brooks Lee is out performing Larnach, Martin and Severino before we rush him into a big league uniform. 

 

I never said to promote him....I said it was odd to say he hasn't shown anything in the minors after 1 year in professional ball when he reached AAA. Not once did I say promote him....I said people judging him as "not all that great" which many here are doing, seems premature. YMMV, of course.

[Mike Sixel]

32 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

They won a division that literally no other team tried to win (in fact Cleveland and Chicago actively tried to lose)  They "advanced" in a playoff round that did not exist for baseball's first 120 years.  Minnesota sports always has the lowest bar imaginable, but "FO is now untouchable after 1 playoff win in 7 years" is about as low as it gets.  Dream bigger!  

I didn't say "untouchable"....I said it was unreal to fire a FO after their best year in decades....a FO which has had them in the playoffs more years than not....

[Danchat]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

I will laugh though if the Twins flip Gonzalez and a prospect or a current pitcher for a high end #2.  Would make a lot of this consternation all for naught.

They certainly have more ammo to move some prospects. I find it funny how much hand-wringing there is over trading our own top prospects, yet we acquire a guy good enough to be #4 in our system and a possible top 100 player and nobody bats an eye. Maybe they feel more comfortable moving Rodriguez, or perhaps they make a big move at the trade deadline involving Gonzalez and others. Let's not forget Gonzalez is by far the most valuable piece to this trade.

37 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

In fact, of Odorizzi, Maeda, Paddock, Gray and Lopez, none of them were traded for prior to February 14th. That's a half month away. And a couple of those guys were acquired in March and April. So maybe you're jumping the gun a bit here. The offseason isn't over.

It's funny because we've done this exact same song and dance a good 5 straight years, yet so many are quick to overreact to no moves happening. That's just how this front office and the league operates. Things go slow.

I have no doubt another $10-15M will be spent and likely one more trade will be made. No idea if it'll be another starter, but there is more to come even if it does end up underwhelming to some as they are going to reduce payroll.

[Doctor Gast]

18 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

History shows most second basemen in their thirties are injury prone.

Please show me that record, because it doesn't make any sense to me. Like I said Polo when given the proper time he bounces back faster than most. Just a personal observation. 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

Just now, Doctor Gast said:

Please show me that record, because it doesn't make any sense to me. Like I said Polo when given the proper time he bounces back faster than most. Just a personal observation. 

I am more worried about the back and lower leg injuries.  

[Riverbrian]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I never said to promote him....I said it was odd to say he hasn't shown anything in the minors after 1 year in professional ball when he reached AAA. Not once did I say promote him....I said people judging him as "not all that great" which many here are doing, seems premature. YMMV, of course.

I never said "that he hasn't shown anything in the minors".

I said

...he still hasn't shown us promotable numbers at AAA.

I am not in the camp that wants him up yesterday and I am not in the camp that says "not all that great". 

 

[nicksaviking]

16 minutes ago, Danchat said:

It's funny because we've done this exact same song and dance a good 5 straight years, yet so many are quick to overreact to no moves happening. That's just how this front office and the league operates. Things go slow.

I have no doubt another $10-15M will be spent and likely one more trade will be made. No idea if it'll be another starter, but there is more to come even if it does end up underwhelming to some as they are going to reduce payroll.

Yeah, completely agree that we get amnesia every year about this stuff.

But seriously, this year I don't want them spend 10-15M more on any free agent. I don't like any of them that are left. There are other players in the system I'd rather the Twins roster. No Joey Gallos or Christian Vazquezs. No to any other names who other fans are interested in, I am not. Hard pass. And I'm not trying to save the Pohlad's money, it's just that these guys all seem to have too many warts to warrant a guaranteed contract. Might as well roll with the more talented young players with warts, even if it does help ownership's pocketbook.

Now trading for someone with a sizable contract, I could be open to that, but don't have anyone of note in mind.

[CCHOF5yearstoolate]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

The truth was there were a lot of trade opportunities to be & were gotten but this FO refused to do so, they'd rather waste money on expensive loser FAs. There are still good trades out there this offseason but our FO is waiting in their office waiting for an offer to come to them that they like.

Note: This FO has made a few good trades but only when they were approached with the offers never vice versa.

Would love to see you prove any of this. 

[IndianaTwin]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

Only most have been reported as a matter of fact. There might be some minor deals like Romo or Dwyer. that they initiated but not major ones. Even this Polanco trade SEA was the major instigator.

Often you hear FO saying we pursuing this FA or that FA, or we're taking offers. How often have you heard this FO say we pursuing this trade? I have never personally heard them say that. It's a matter of observation & using common sense.

Out of curiosity, what's your evidence that Seattle initiated this trade?

 

Overall, I don't think their silence is evidence of their not pursuing people. More likely, I think it's evidence of their preference to work below the radar.