Rumor: Sonny Gray, “Wouldn’t shock me if I didn’t play anymore after this year”

[Dman]

6 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Most rentals aren't as good as Gray....I just looked at 2022, and there were two trades with better players (Soto and Castillo deals).....I don't know if we know what Gray would bring back for sure. Less than Castillo for sure, but more than most. I mean, if they can't get a 45 value prospect (or better) they need to keep him and offer the QO, assuming he doesn't fall on his face the rest of the year.

I don't think either of those players were two month rentals though and that is what Gray would be. Seattle and the Padres will both likely try to extend each player as well unless injury or poor performance.

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, Dman said:

I don't think either of those players were two month rentals though and that is what Gray would be. Seattle and the Padres will both likely try to extend each player as well unless injury or poor performance.

That's my point. No rental was as good as Gray, so we don't know what Gray brings back. 

I think technically Castillo was, but they had an agreement in place, clearly, but I could be wrong.

[Dman]

17 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

That's my point. No rental was as good as Gray, so we don't know what Gray brings back. 

I think technically Castillo was, but they had an agreement in place, clearly, but I could be wrong.

Don't disagree it is impossible to know what he might bring back. We just know it has to pass the bar of the comp pick unless of course the Twins and other teams believe this is his last year then maybe that price comes down which was my point from the beginning.  Others believe his possible retirement would have no bearing on his deadline trade value but that doesn't make sense to me because if he retires after this year then the Twins lose that leverage of the comp pick bar in trade talks.  The Twins get nothing if they can't strike a deal and other teams would know that.

Still the Nat's got the Dodgers to overpay and they passed on comp picks and the Dodgers were prepared to let those players walk so it isn't impossible to still get that value from some team that is desperate enough but, that team has to really like your guy or they can find something comparable for cheaper.  Is Gray a Sherzer\Turner type difference maker?  Maybe?  Still if you know Gray is retiring and the Twins desperate to move him why pay more?  When you can likely get him for less which would still be better than nothing for the Twins.

[IndianaTwin]

Sounds like a middle-aged guy (which he is, in baseball terms) who reached a significant goal (10 years service) and is in a reflective mood. I don't read much more into than that.

(And I appreciate hearing the musings of middle-aged guys in reflective moods, since I'm one of the former and try to be the latter occasionally.)

[LastOnePicked]

Well, this pretty much confirms that a stint with the Twins is enough to make even an all-star pitcher want to quit the game entirely.

Yes, this could be a quip, or a hasty comment or even a joke. But when I see this lifeless, gutless, heartless team take the field, I do often wonder if there's a serious culture problem here. This comment doesn't exactly dispel that notion.

[terrydactyls]

4 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

That family thing, for me, was huge in my decision making about career....so I get that totally. 

Just out of curiosity - by making a career shift, did you leave behind a $20M a year job?

[Craig Arko]

If I’d had the dough to be set for life at 34, I’d walk and not look back, too. Good onya, Sonny.

[terrydactyls]

My opinion is that regardless of whether you think Gray will retire, sign an extension, or opt for free agency, the Twins need to inform the other 29 teams that they are willing to listen to any offer for him.  The Twins can always say "No Thanks" to any offer they don't like.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

2 hours ago, Dman said:

Well I can name one for sure and bet there are others.  The Twins traded Escobar to Arizona for a pretty high level pitcher they didn't want to give up in Duran.  Have to believe before pulling the trigger they had numbers in place to resign him in the offseason and they did jus that. Other wise they probably wouldn't have included Duran in the deal for a rental.

Escobar is a great guy and it’s too bad he missed Arizona’s competitive window by a couple years. 

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, IndianaTwin said:

Sounds like a middle-aged guy (which he is, in baseball terms) who reached a significant goal (10 years service) and is in a reflective mood. I don't read much more into than that.

(And I appreciate hearing the musings of middle-aged guys in reflective moods, since I'm one of the former and try to be the latter occasionally.)

I had a similar reaction but with a different spin: he doesn't seem to have much of a filter on his internal monologue.

[Mike Sixel]

48 minutes ago, terrydactyls said:

Just out of curiosity - by making a career shift, did you leave behind a $20M a year job?

sigh. Ya, you're right, it is only about money. 

[dxpavelka]

yawn

[IndianaTwin]

3 hours ago, ashbury said:

I had a similar reaction but with a different spin: he doesn't seem to have much of a filter on his internal monologue.

Mrs. IT might suggest I should have added a similar statement about myself in my previous parenthetical comment. 🤣

[IndianaTwin]

3 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

sigh. Ya, you're right, it is only about money. 

"I'm content," my mom says, each time I ask how she's doing.  

She's in a retirement home with early stage Alzheimer's.

May I have the grace to say the same when I'm in her position.

(And today, for that matter.)

[SwainZag]

Gray has shown to be the ultimate competitor.  He has spoken out on more than one occasion over multiple seasons about being taken out of games too early.  If anyone really thinks anyone with that mental attitude is going to walk away after what's his arguable best year and leave between $40-70M on the table is off their rocker.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

53 minutes ago, SwainZag said:

Gray has shown to be the ultimate competitor.  He has spoken out on more than one occasion over multiple seasons about being taken out of games too early.  If anyone really thinks anyone with that mental attitude is going to walk away after what's his arguable best year and leave between $40-70M on the table is off their rocker.

I don’t expect Gray to retire either. He still has a ton of fire. However, Gray strikes me as a guy who would pitch for free.

[IndianaTwin]

1 hour ago, SwainZag said:

Gray has shown to be the ultimate competitor.  He has spoken out on more than one occasion over multiple seasons about being taken out of games too early.  If anyone really thinks anyone with that mental attitude is going to walk away after what's his arguable best year and leave between $40-70M on the table is off their rocker.

To clarify, any of my comments above aren’t to say that I think he’ll retire. I don’t. But heck, Michael Jordan walked away from a bigger paycheck (comparably, don’t know the actual dollars from 19whatever) than Gray would.

I’m just saying that these comments don’t really mean a lot in the context. They certainly don’t affect my willingness to trade him.    

[jorgenswest]

9 hours ago, Dman said:

Well I can name one for sure and bet there are others.  The Twins traded Escobar to Arizona for a pretty high level pitcher they didn't want to give up in Duran.  Have to believe before pulling the trigger they had numbers in place to resign him in the offseason and they did jus that. Other wise they probably wouldn't have included Duran in the deal for a rental.

Duran was their 19th ranked prospect in the MLB pipeline at the time. Maciel was 11th. Including a 19th ranked prospect with a 4.73 ERA in low A Ball. I think they didn’t have any trouble pulling the trigger. He was not a top prospect. He had a big arm but poor numbers in their system. He was immediately much better with the Twins.

[weitz41]

Outside of an injury, I would be surprised if he called it quits. More power to him if he does.

I think I prefer Bleacher Reports bold 2nd half predictions that he signs an extension (3/60) with the Twins.

[Doctor Wu]

Sonny Gray seems like a very competitive pitcher, the type that wants to win every time he takes the mound. Sure, you can say that about almost all pitchers, but Sonny fits more into that bulldog type of mentality that really takes that effort to another level. I'm happy that he's with the Twins. There are times it looks like he has a chip on his shoulder and has a lot to prove. It also strikes me that perhaps he doesn't feel like he is respected enough or considered valuable to the Twins. Look back to the opening game of the season:  he wasn't the one chosen to start that game, even though he was clearly the veteran with the best resume. Okay, that's maybe not any sort of proof that the Twins don't consider him valuable, but at the same time, I just don't get the feeling that he has felt all that comfortable in a Twins uniform. Whether that's due to how Rocco has used him, or other issues, I honestly can't say, it's just a gut feeling. In any case, I don't see Gray hanging up his uniform after this season. I respect the fact that he has family reasons for maybe wanting to put a stop to his career sooner than expected, but I also think that with his competitive nature we will see him pitching again ---somewhere --- next season and beyond,. 

[Major League Ready]

10 hours ago, IndianaTwin said:

To clarify, any of my comments above aren’t to say that I think he’ll retire. I don’t. But heck, Michael Jordan walked away from a bigger paycheck (comparably, don’t know the actual dollars from 19whatever) than Gray would.

I’m just saying that these comments don’t really mean a lot in the context. They certainly don’t affect my willingness to trade him.    

Sonny Gray has career earnings of $62M before taxes so let's call it $35M after taxes.  Jordan is reported to be worth $2B.  His superstar status allowed for him to make a fortune after he retired.  He had a royalty deal in place that to this day pays him $150M+/year.   Two completely different scenarios.   

Part of me wonders if Gray is so calculating as to drop that sound bite to encourage a trade so that he does not have a qualified offer attached to him next year.

[laloesch]

17 hours ago, ashbury said:

I had a similar reaction but with a different spin: he doesn't seem to have much of a filter on his internal monologue.

I think he's trying to manipulate the situation to his advantage, at least partially.  But it does appear as if he does lack a filter to a certain degree.  I think some of it is his personal competitive nature shining through, but it's hard to say for sure.  Nobody can really fault him in a way for doing this.  It's just business.

[mikelink45]

I doesn't mean anything.  It took me four years after I said I was going to retire before I left that job and started a new career.  In the middle of a frustrating season with a frustrating manager he is just sounding off. 

[Craig Arko]

I retired. I now work three part-time jobs instead of one full time one.

[Jerr]

23 hours ago, Schmoeman5 said:

Agreed about the family and enjoying time. But there's probably at least 40 million reasons he'll play a few more years 

But, he is probably already set with money and that family thing is a HUGE thing. He will do what he feels is best and that's a good thing!

 

[JD-TWINS]

On 7/13/2023 at 12:13 PM, Cap'n Piranha said:

Anyone trading for Sonny Gray at the deadline knows full well he's an impending FA.  Gray saying he might retire does not impact his trade value one bit.

Seems obvious to me as well!!! Nobody cares what a guy says if you’re looking to rent him for 10 - 11 weeks. Unless we collapse over the next 15 games, he’s not going anywhere.

[JD-TWINS]

On 7/14/2023 at 8:25 AM, Doctor Wu said:

Sonny Gray seems like a very competitive pitcher, the type that wants to win every time he takes the mound. Sure, you can say that about almost all pitchers, but Sonny fits more into that bulldog type of mentality that really takes that effort to another level. I'm happy that he's with the Twins. There are times it looks like he has a chip on his shoulder and has a lot to prove. It also strikes me that perhaps he doesn't feel like he is respected enough or considered valuable to the Twins. Look back to the opening game of the season:  he wasn't the one chosen to start that game, even though he was clearly the veteran with the best resume. Okay, that's maybe not any sort of proof that the Twins don't consider him valuable, but at the same time, I just don't get the feeling that he has felt all that comfortable in a Twins uniform. Whether that's due to how Rocco has used him, or other issues, I honestly can't say, it's just a gut feeling. In any case, I don't see Gray hanging up his uniform after this season. I respect the fact that he has family reasons for maybe wanting to put a stop to his career sooner than expected, but I also think that with his competitive nature we will see him pitching again ---somewhere --- next season and beyond,. 

He’s super competitive and a hot head to some level. Nothing wrong with a tough competitor wearing it on his sleeve! Rocco has treated him as well as he could be expected to treat him. Our staff has thrown more innings as starters than any other in ‘23. Reasoning is because they’ve pitched well. Same manager both years. Last night Maeda was pulled after 3 innings not because Baldelli doesn’t like him or is trigger happy with bull pen but because he was protecting Maeda & trying to win a ballgame. Same approach as in ‘22 with Gray/Ryan/Bundy & the other 2 guys at the back end of the rotation……if guys were failing in middle of fourth they need to be replaced, period.

Gray pitched lights out in April…….pitched really well in May………pitched not much better than average since beginning of June. He’s effective with his 6 pitch mix but doesn’t seem to have the mental toughness/focus to work through 6 plus innings routinely. Not many pitchers do have that kind of focus.

Not the manager’s fault!

Hope we re-sign him by using his current salary along with some of the dollars saved on Not Signing Maeda & Mahle in ‘24. Offer $43M for 2 years……..I’d offer it soon so we can pump him up (financial security) if he’s interested or we can determine it’s inevitable that he’s done in MN. Can’t afford more risk on his health than 2 years! He’s a luxury going forward.

A “no” and we early extend Ryan. Ryan/Lopez/Ober are our best pitchers and Ober is starting to look like our most consistent. Short sample but awfully good so far! ……Paddack is under contract for ‘24 as well……Louie V. is still learning & improving. Maeda could/would probably come back as a depth guy for & $8-$10M/year.

Maeda - Mahle - Kepler - Polanco - Gallo - Gray could/should all be gone in ‘24 & that’s approximately $60-$65M in available $ to spend without increasing our budget. If we could get 2-3 proven (reliever - OF - pitcher) players with these funds and have our young guys in place to start ‘24 it would be ideal.

[Shobae]

If he does retire good for him, he's made more money than 99.9999% of people ever will in their entire lifetime he certainly doesn't need to keep playing for money. If he wants to spend time with his family that's more important than baseball. Idk if he will retire but totally reasonable that he would think about it.

[gil4]

Would it shock me if any given MLB pitcher didn't pitch again after this year? Not at all.  It happens all the time.  

I wouldn't read too much into what he says. The attrition rate for the position is brutal.  He is obviously aware.  

[Nine of twelve]

11 hours ago, gil4 said:

Would it shock me if any given MLB pitcher didn't pitch again after this year? Not at all.  It happens all the time.  

I wouldn't read too much into what he says. The attrition rate for the position is brutal.  He is obviously aware.  

It's very common to misapply statistics. There's a big difference between saying that there will be at least one MLB pitcher who won't pitch next year and saying that one specific very good MLB pitcher won't pitch next year. The former happens 100% of the time and the latter almost never happens.