The Twins Skimping on Correa Presents More Questions Than Answers

[sweetmusicviola16]

3 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

One elite player and two rookies, or two Joey Gallos (only signed for one year, so no long term fix) and a random low priced vet? Which would you prefer?

Falvey prefers the second option.

LOL

[sweetmusicviola16]

9/300 This would have shown they were serious bidders/players in the game. We also would not have been paying him for 13 years, which is the complaint of many. He would have been 36 in the final season. I get the AAV would have been higher, but you can't have everything.

Whatever. No elite players are coming to MN.

[Brandon27]

Hate to say it but the twins should have never put the opt clause in his contract 

[Squirrel]

Just now, Brandon27 said:

Hate to say it but the twins should have never put the opt clause in his contract 

I don’t think they had the choice. It was part of the deal. Maybe the answer was to never have signed him to begin with. Hindsight is always 20-20

[LewFordLives]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

By the last three years, you are giving up an average free agent to get an elite player in his prime. I'd do that all day 

Anyone would do that deal, but how many years of dead money are you willing to accept? How many big, long -term, mega-deals can you think of where the recipient played at an all-star level for at least half the contract? Scherzer and A-Rod are the only two that come to mind. In most of those deals the team only gets 3 or 4 years of all-star caliber play.   Pujols, Cabrera, Cano, Stanton, Tatis Jr??...

If you're concerned about getting more money to the players there are more equitable ways of doing it, like increasing the minimum salary or finding better ways to get money to the younger players, who in my opinion are way under paid.

[specialiststeve]

Skimping! 

As a fan base we should be thankful that we didn't get "scammed" by Boras. I am not happy that we didn't get a quality SS for the team but that contract is stupid... Not getting him was the right move ... 

[Steve71]

2 quick observations:

1) In hindsight, I wish the Twins had never signed Correa for the single year.  He was never going to re-sign with Minnesota, the Twins took on all the risk of major injury, and he used that year to get a huge contract with another team.

2) Even if the Twins had re-signed Correa, they were going nowhere unless a number of their young players returned to health and/or blossomed in 2023.  If they do, the Twins will be good without Correa and can look to add as necessary at the trade deadline. If not, we don't have 10-13 years of huge contract to complain about.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

1 hour ago, mnfireman said:

They were bidding against themselves at that point. After the Giants offer, going to $300 MM makes no sense. The Mets knew what the Twins offer was, so they went $315MM. Going to $300 MM still wouldn't get it done, if Boras even called them for an offer. The Mets, being the Mets, would have just beat that offer anyway. Spin it anyway you want, this was a Lose-Lose situation for the Twins.

Starting with 300M, made way more sense than what they did. Correct, don’t bid against yourself, but then if you were never prepared to offer more and actually compete for a guy you knew was going to get offers in excess of $300m, they shouldn’t have fiddled around to begin with.

this FO beat themselves by failing to improve the roster in free agency that they actually had the resources to compete with. They went all-in and single-mindedly focused on a guy they had no chance to sign while letting the Free Agents they actually had a shot with, go elsewhere.

They made this a lose-lose situation for themselves. If their 285m offer was everything they could offer, and had no more room in the budget for anything else, then they’re really, super-incompetent. If 285 was all they were going to offer to begin with, had room in the budget for other players, but ignored those needs to focus on Correa, they’re naive and incompetent.

I have been a staunch supporter of this FO, but they apparently learned nothing last year about multi-tasking and flexibility.

 

[mnfireman]

6 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Starting with 300M, made way more sense than what they did. Correct, don’t bid against yourself, but then if you were never prepared to offer more and actually compete for a guy you knew was going to get offers in excess of $300m, they shouldn’t have fiddled around to begin with.

this FO beat themselves by failing to improve the roster in free agency that they actually had the resources to compete with. They went all-in and single-mindedly focused on a guy they had no chance to sign while letting the Free Agents they actually had a shot with, go elsewhere.

They made this a lose-lose situation for themselves. If their 285m offer was everything they could offer, and had no more room in the budget for anything else, then they’re really, super-incompetent. If 285 was all they were going to offer to begin with, had room in the budget for other players, but ignored those needs to focus on Correa, they’re naive and incompetent.

I have been a staunch supporter of this FO, but they apparently learned nothing last year about multi-tasking and flexibility.

 

They signed Vazquez (a better signing than Contreras IMO) and they were tied to both Rodon and  Swanson. Which of those contracts did you want them to best?? I don't think either ages well. Spending money just to spend money is foolish. 

[sweetmusicviola16]

When Turner signed for 11/300 there was no choice but to up the offer, even if they would have been "bidding against themselves". Either be prepared to go higher than 10/285 or they should have never been playing in the deep end of the pool from the beginning. 

FWIW I'm not upset about not getting Correa, but the fact is they have played this off season very very poorly. Couldn't do much worse.

[tony&rodney]

An 8/$306 offer should have been the first and last offer IF the Twins actually wanted to sign Carlos Correa. This determination should have been made by the end of the All Star Break last July. Otherwise, the Twins should have found a great deal to unload Correa for a top prospect. The ability to look around, be aware, and think forward is based on experience. The Twins leadership team are struggling right now.

I'm curious if a trade with Miami was contingent on the Twins signing Correa because it would free the team from counting on a few of their prospects. The lack of awareness within the front office was displayed most clearly by Dave St. Peter in his comments just after the season ended. 

[sweetmusicviola16]

12 minutes ago, mnfireman said:

 Spending money just to spend money is foolish. 

How long does the present ownership get to continue with this mode of operation? Cuz that is their never ending theory.

[Riverbrian]

3 hours ago, Ted Schwerzler said:

Plenty of front office insight on this.

What is the front office insight?  

[LewFordLives]

40 minutes ago, Steve71 said:

2 quick observations:

1) In hindsight, I wish the Twins had never signed Correa for the single year.  He was never going to re-sign with Minnesota, the Twins took on all the risk of major injury, and he used that year to get a huge contract with another team.

I wouldn't go that far. We all knew this was going to be a one-year make good deal. We got a great player with comparatively little downside financial risk. Yeah, he could have suffered a catastrophic injury, but the Twins would have "only" had to absorb another $70 million at a time when they had the payroll space to do so. 

I'm not sorry we got his talents for a year. Do I think the Twins should give him $300 million for ten years??......No.

 

 

 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

13 minutes ago, mnfireman said:

They signed Vazquez (a better signing than Contreras IMO) and they were tied to both Rodon and  Swanson. Which of those contracts did you want them to best?? I don't think either ages well. Spending money just to spend money is foolish. 

 who cares if spending 11m fixes 4th/5th outfielder? Speaking of foolish spending… they still need a RH hitter in the outfield.

they still need hitters (plural). Farmer is a huge step down from Correa, Vazquez is fine hitter for a catcher,

While this team may have the best (when healthy) 2-5 rotation, Sonny Gray is not the guy I want starting WS game 1.

as things sit today, this team is worse than the team that went 78-84 with all the same injury questions.

[silverslugger]

As baseball fans in markets like ours, aren't we so glad that we get to play in the deep end of the kiddie pool???  Alas, our Mother (FO) forgot to bring any toys, so we're left having to dive for pennies.

[Whitey333]

Can we ever quit discussing Correa?  People talk like he was a Twins institution for many years and not the opportunistic bag of wind he proved himself to be.  He and Boras used the Twins and us fans since day one.  We all knew this and we played his con of how much he wanted to play here right to the hilt.  I can understand us gullible fans and public buying into being played.  But the FO should be ashamed at how they handled it.  It's time to move on from Correa.  If the Twins have another poor season it will be time to consider a new FO.  Unless of course they can keep conning the fans into thinking they are good.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

4 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

This article feels like trolling... Assumptions everywhere that the Twins did nothing and watched the world go by while praying to the church of Correa.

Salary was not the ultimate hurdle in Correa going to the Mets.  He went to the Mets to play in a bigger market with more revenue opportunities and to play on a team that has a very strong chance to win for years to come.

Nowhere has there been any comments made that even if the Twins had matched the insane Giants offer, that he would choose MN.  The same can be said about his deal with the Mets.

We seriously need to stop putting the lack of Correa coming here squarely on the shoulders of the FO.  Sure, the FO decisions may be part of it, but stop this "failure" blame game.

2 years 30m seems like a significant delta

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, LewFordLives said:

Anyone would do that deal, but how many years of dead money are you willing to accept? How many big, long -term, mega-deals can you think of where the recipient played at an all-star level for at least half the contract? Scherzer and A-Rod are the only two that come to mind. In most of those deals the team only gets 3 or 4 years of all-star caliber play.   Pujols, Cabrera, Cano, Stanton, Tatis Jr??...

If you're concerned about getting more money to the players there are more equitable ways of doing it, like increasing the minimum salary or finding better ways to get money to the younger players, who in my opinion are way under paid.

You either sign an elite player, or several not so great players.....They are literally signing Joey Gallo to 11 MM for one year. One year. How that fixes anything, I have no idea. Again, the dead money isn't an issue, that's all about spreading out the pain. You are giving up one average FA for three years. I'm willing to do that to get an elite player (which they passed on last year and this year, and will likely again next year - they don't even sign the next tier down either).

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, mnfireman said:

They signed Vazquez (a better signing than Contreras IMO) and they were tied to both Rodon and  Swanson. Which of those contracts did you want them to best?? I don't think either ages well. Spending money just to spend money is foolish. 

They also didn't sign any of the top FA starting pitchers last year, in a record year for that opportunity. Nor did they sign one this year. Not spending money just puts it in the owner's pocket. They have one long term deal for real money, and they traded that guy after two years. In the history of the team.

[howeda7]

1 hour ago, tony&rodney said:

An 8/$306 offer should have been the first and last offer IF the Twins actually wanted to sign Carlos Correa. This determination should have been made by the end of the All Star Break last July. Otherwise, the Twins should have found a great deal to unload Correa for a top prospect. The ability to look around, be aware, and think forward is based on experience. The Twins leadership team are struggling right now.

I'm curious if a trade with Miami was contingent on the Twins signing Correa because it would free the team from counting on a few of their prospects. The lack of awareness within the front office was displayed most clearly by Dave St. Peter in his comments just after the season ended. 

Trading Correa would have been fine if we weren't contending. We were in first place. You can't trade him in that case. It's not worth alienating the fan base and the clubhouse to net one nice prospect, and that's all he'd have gotten you.

[JYTwinsFan]

I've been trying to monitor the reporting all day on this, so it's possible I've missed something, but I am surprised by the conviction a lot of people have around presuming to know what happened here. There's a pretty real chance that Correa has a significant medical risk that we will never know about (nor should we). For the time being, until further reporting or leaks, it seems worth considering that whatever it is...

1. It was enough for the Giants, under significant pressure with their fanbase, to walk away from the deal unapologetically risking egg on their face, relationship with Boras, a lackluster 2023 season, and criticism from their fan base equal or greater than the Twins. I suspect they did not do that lightly.
2. It was significant enough for Boras/Mets to settle on a deal worth $35mil less than the Giants offer.
3. It's entirely possible the Twins know this mark on his medicals and perhaps led them to cap their offer where they did.
4. Or perhaps Boras did approach the Twins after the Giants backed out and they stood firm with their offer.
5. I don't know much about insuring star athletes, but is it plausible that some actuary presented a case for insurance up to a certain amount based on Correa's medical risk and that is a factor that teams have to legitimately weigh. For arguments sake, what if they will only insure up to $285mil? 
6. Also...the deal with the Mets is not done...and I would think most would agree that the Mets offer here is not a sign of their confidence that the medical risk is insignificant. They are literally throwing money around and the physical is there to protect them too if they calculate differently between now and then. They'd suffer much less backlash because they'd be the second team to pull out validating the Giants move.

Anyway...fun reading everyone's speculation. But man, there's a lot here we don't know.

[DocBauer]

As I stated previously, I never expect3d Correa back. But I fooled myself in to thinking there was a real chance for a while this offseason. But I just don't understand how any of this was handled.

1] Apparently, the FO really and truly believed anyone else interested was in the $290-300M range so they were right in it. And maybe they were right initially. But when it became obvious it was going to have to be an offer at $300M plus, they had the option to walk away or stay in.

2] The 3yr deal they gave to Correa was real. If he didn't opt out for any reason, he got another $35M in 2023. Same for 2024. So if they were willing to pay him $35M per year initially, then why not in the new offer? Or front load the first few years while payroll is so flexible?

3] We'll probably never know what happened at midnight and if the Twins were even kept in the loop or not. But if Correa really wanted to stay, and the FO had actually offered him 10yrs and $300-310-ish, he might be a Twin right now. But then again, the Mets could have just gone $330 or more...since they seem to be printing $ these days...and blown the Twins out of the water as the Giants did.

None of this makes any sense and that's my biggest issue.

[tony&rodney]

23 minutes ago, howeda7 said:

not worth alienating the fan base and the clubhouse to net one nice prospect, and that's all he'd have gotten you.

First, Falvey has a tough job. Second, Gleybar Torres, others have been returned in July trades. I know that would have been tough, but many of us simple fans thought Buxton, Larnach, Kepler, Polanco, and others were day to day in late July. One would hope the team knows more than the public about the health of their team, and the resulting potential to win games. I guess we really don't know what was going on with the injuries, but is it possible to contend with the team the Twins put on the field in August and September? Maybe the injuries and collapse were just unavoidable and unpredictable; bad luck. I wanted the Twins to re-sign Correa, but somehow it seems like Falvey should have had at least some control of the situation. Whatever, it is done. It's in the past, it does not matter.

[SanoMustGo]

5 hours ago, Treevor71 said:

Id hardly call 10/$285 skimping, that’s an over pay for a suspect back and a player who has never hit 30 hr or driven in 100.  IMO teams like the Twins should never give a contract like that to a player unless they are a legit super star, a player that can be counted on to take the field daily and be clutch, Correa was horrible with runners in scoring position.  The Giants and Twins dodged a bullet in my opinion, although I don’t agree with how the Giants handled things with him.  Everyone here complaining that we didn’t go high enough to get him are the same people that complained that mauer got that big contract and didn’t live up to it, I think Correas contract will age horribly and obviously Cohen can eat it with his money. 

I thin the Giants handled it perfectly considering the agent involved.

[Twins GFP]

Ok...

First of all, people need to stop throwing numbers around like monopoly.  Nobody here has skin in the game.  You are talking about 10-20-35 million dollars like it is nothing.  Like it or not, baseball is a business.  The Twins are a business.  This ownership group has acted this way for years, they make no bones about it.  To continue to complain about it is asinine.  Come talk to me when you are willing to front $35 million of your own money.  The Twins knew what their number was on Correa, they weren't willing to move on it.  As fans, just accept it and move on. 

Second, everybody needs to stop talking about direct correlation.  A does not lead to B.  It was not Vazquez/Gallo or Correa.  The signings/situations were totally independent of each other.  If you think signing Correa would have stopped this team that had 1 catcher on the 40 man roster from signing Vazquez, you are wrong.  Same with Gallo.

Everybody is mad because the Twins had basically two routes they could go.  Spend tons of money on FA or see what the young guys bring to the table.  Personally I was hoping it would be closer to spending, but they chose option B.  Everybody that has been complaining about not giving the younger guys the chance... now you are getting your wish.  Deal with it.

[Twins GFP]

6 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Ok, we can stop putting the blame for Correa squarely on the shoulders of the FO.

But what about an off season that has produced Vasquez (an A in  my book), Farmer as the starting SS, and Gallo?  Who shoulders the blame for that? 

 

Maybe nobody.  Maybe it was tactical.  Maybe they made decent runs at 5-6 guys and none of them panned out.  We don't know.  Stop looking to blame because you don't like the tack they took.

[Twins GFP]

2 hours ago, JYTwinsFan said:

I've been trying to monitor the reporting all day on this, so it's possible I've missed something, but I am surprised by the conviction a lot of people have around presuming to know what happened here. There's a pretty real chance that Correa has a significant medical risk that we will never know about (nor should we). For the time being, until further reporting or leaks, it seems worth considering that whatever it is...

1. It was enough for the Giants, under significant pressure with their fanbase, to walk away from the deal unapologetically risking egg on their face, relationship with Boras, a lackluster 2023 season, and criticism from their fan base equal or greater than the Twins. I suspect they did not do that lightly.
2. It was significant enough for Boras/Mets to settle on a deal worth $35mil less than the Giants offer.
3. It's entirely possible the Twins know this mark on his medicals and perhaps led them to cap their offer where they did.
4. Or perhaps Boras did approach the Twins after the Giants backed out and they stood firm with their offer.
5. I don't know much about insuring star athletes, but is it plausible that some actuary presented a case for insurance up to a certain amount based on Correa's medical risk and that is a factor that teams have to legitimately weigh. For arguments sake, what if they will only insure up to $285mil? 
6. Also...the deal with the Mets is not done...and I would think most would agree that the Mets offer here is not a sign of their confidence that the medical risk is insignificant. They are literally throwing money around and the physical is there to protect them too if they calculate differently between now and then. They'd suffer much less backlash because they'd be the second team to pull out validating the Giants move.

Anyway...fun reading everyone's speculation. But man, there's a lot here we don't know.

Here is another question for debate:

If the Mets happen to fail him (which I 99% doubt), should the Twins still sign him?  Even at their last offer?  That would be two teams to pass on him physically.

[sorney]

K, I love this article.

[sorney]

4 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

 who cares if spending 11m fixes 4th/5th outfielder? Speaking of foolish spending… they still need a RH hitter in the outfield.

they still need hitters (plural). Farmer is a huge step down from Correa, Vazquez is fine hitter for a catcher,

While this team may have the best (when healthy) 2-5 rotation, Sonny Gray is not the guy I want starting WS game 1.

as things sit today, this team is worse than the team that went 78-84 with all the same injury questions.

If they make the World Series, and Sonny Gray is the #1 starer, that means they won some playoff series!!  I'll take that all day!!  I mean, eventually, yes, gotta get better to win a World Series, but this team has been ass for so long, I just want a playoff series win to start with.