Is It Time to Start Worrying About Sano?

[jctwins]

My bigger concern is that I don't get the impression that he is interested in improving his craft of hitting the ball, unlike a Jim Thome that worked at improving through the end of his career.

 

 

[jctwins]

 

Is that something that would be apparent to fans?

 

I missed this before my post, but watch him during BP. He seems to be laughing it up as much as he is really working the process.

[TFRazor]

 

The market has been pretty clear in valuing all or nothing hitters with no positional value. Sure he might rise above that definition but there are no signs currently. And no I am not drunk ....

Awesome. That means we get to keep him on the cheap right?

[TheLeviathan]

 

Is that something that would be apparent to fans?

 

I'm not sure you want the answer to that.

[Mike Sixel]

I missed this before my post, but watch him during BP. He seems to be laughing it up as much as he is really working the process.

Heaven forbid here have fun out there. You literally have no idea if he wants to be great or not, unless you can read minds.

 

People complaining about Sano love Buxton? Speechless.

[gunnarthor]

 

My bigger concern is that I don't get the impression that he is interested in improving his craft of hitting the ball, unlike a Jim Thome that worked at improving through the end of his career.

I've never gotten that impression. He missed all of 2014 and worked hard to make the majors in 2015. He "struggled" a bit in 2016 and responded with a better 2017, increasing all of his rate stats. He seems to have worked hard enough to start the season decently with the bat this year.

 

I dunno, you seem to see things differently than I do.

[nicksaviking]

 

I missed this before my post, but watch him during BP. He seems to be laughing it up as much as he is really working the process.

 

Indicating what? 

 

That if you don't have a cold and stoic Minnesota demeanor you're not trying?

 

Jim Thome always seemed to be having a good time.

[rdehring]

Well this is interesting!

 

I said during the offseason Sano needed to get two things behind him, leg injury and off field issue, then do well.  That would enable the Twins to trade him either at the deadline or next winter...and trade him for a big return.

 

You see, I think there are just too many questions surrounding Sano for him to be the cornerstone on which the Twins can build their next championship.  Why is he the cornerstone?  Well, he is going to require the biggest contract to keep him here for longer than the next couple years.  

 

And with all those questions swirling around, I think he is too much of a risk to pay what it is going to take to keep him.  If that is even possible.  

 

So I continue to dream that he puts up a season with 45 home runs, settles down at third base after the weather clears up, and hits for a .280 or so average with well over 100 rbi.  Then the Twins should be able to talk to one of the New York teams or another coastal big spender for a reasonable return.

[Mike Sixel]

I'd rather they sign him, but this is the Twins, so I have my doubts.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

I'm going to stop reading this post. My head is spinning. Instead I'm going to look at the AL Central standings and videos of Kepler's home runs of two days ago, and  Eddie Rosario acting like a kid at Christmas as he grabs the large container of ice water to pour on Kepler, and Mauer's 2000th hit, and Berrios' strikeouts from last night. There, now I feel better. 

[jctwins]

 

Indicating what? 

 

That if you don't have a cold and stoic Minnesota demeanor you're not trying?

 

Jim Thome always seemed to be having a good time.

 

I get your point, but perceptions and reputations are developed based on the sum total of input we get from observation, comments that are made or not made.  

 

We know Mauer and what he is all about. Good and bad, but more good than bad when it comes to work ethic.

 

Sano has had success, but perception indicates it's built more on talent and ability than him continuing to develop skills. 

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

I get your point, but perceptions and reputations are developed based on the sum total of input we get from observation, comments that are made or not made.  

 

We know Mauer and what he is all about. Good and bad, but more good than bad when it comes to work ethic.

 

Sano has had success, but perception indicates it's built more on talent and ability than him continuing to develop skills. 

 

Perhaps you shouldn't put so much stock into perceptions gathered from such a distance.

[Twodogs]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

 

 

Oh crap, it's Sanowing

[Kelly Vance]

In a word:  NO.  

Why worry with only 11 games played?  That's just weak. He has proven his natural ability and he will learn to be a more complete hitter. His ceiling is still extremely high. He is a 40-50 HR guy. 

[nicksaviking]

 

I get your point, but perceptions and reputations are developed based on the sum total of input we get from observation, comments that are made or not made.  

 

We know Mauer and what he is all about. Good and bad, but more good than bad when it comes to work ethic.

 

Sano has had success, but perception indicates it's built more on talent and ability than him continuing to develop skills. 

 

I guess I would suggest that these "perceptions" are regionally specific and are used as a poor tool to wield judgment against other people.

 

It seems to me that what you're describing is a flaw that too many people in our part of the world should strive to correct and players like Miguel Sano are hopefully kind enough to overlook. 

[Battle ur tail off]

Isn't it kind of plainly obvious the reason Sano strikes out quite frequently? I mean, the guy is a pretty darn good hitter, but breaking balls are not his forte. Work, work, work on learning how to handle them better and the sky is the limit with him. I get it though, the work, work, work part is the thing people are questioning. He will have to have an epiphany at some point if he wants to reach the next level as a player IMO.

 

I am thouh, totally against those that think we should move him, etc. That is the kind of thinking that set this franchise back 10 years ago. It's OK to keep productive players. You don't always have to move anything valuable you have for an A ball pitcher filled with "upside".

[jctwins]

 

Isn't it kind of plainly obvious the reason Sano strikes out quite frequently? I mean, the guy is a pretty darn good hitter, but breaking balls are not his forte. Work, work, work on learning how to handle them better and the sky is the limit with him. I get it though, the work, work, work part is the thing people are questioning. He will have to have an epiphany at some point if he wants to reach the next level as a player IMO.

 

I am thouh, totally against those that think we should move him, etc. That is the kind of thinking that set this franchise back 10 years ago. It's OK to keep productive players. You don't always have to move anything valuable you have for an A ball pitcher filled with "upside".

 

A better way of saying what I'm trying to say.

 

 

[Darius]

Yes, his offensive skillset can offset K'ing 40% of the time.

 

If he grounds out to short instead 40% of the time, it doesn't make him any better. In fact, he'd be creating more outs (double plays).

 

He's there to see a lot of pitches, and hit the best ones over the wall. Strikeouts come with that.

 

There is zero reason to be concerned about Sano. Especially the way this team is playing around him.

[launchingthrees]

Sano will be fine. He's a hitting savant. If he can stay healthy, he has the ability to hit .280, take a walk and potentially lead the league in home runs.

That's the problem. He doesn't have that type of power.

[ewen21]

 

This is where I fall I think. Sano is a victim right now of having high expectations and clearly not hitting them. His defense has not been good, and I do think as the season warms up that he'll get better there, but he's definitely put the team in a bind with errors so far this year.

 

His hitting is fine... when he makes contact. And he's not making nearly enough of that. Buxton, in my opinion, is in the same boat there. Both of those guys need to do a better job taking pitches they cannot hit... and if they don't figure that one out, all those high expectations we have had (and they have of themselves) will never be met.

We didn't scout him and write pieces on him.  Maybe a few people here did, but I did not.  I did not forecast any kind of expectations for him or Buxton.  Over the years I became a wait and see kind of guy.  Like everyone I remember Sano being drafted, but drafts are pie in the sky to me.  Been around too long to project a draft pick into anything.  Too much can happen.

 

It took until Elizabethton and his days with Eddie Rosario hitting a bunch of jacks there to start really feeling Sano.  Then Pelotero Ballplayer came out. From that documentary I gained an appreciation for the kid and the struggle he went through.  (Anyone who hasn't seen it and doesn't particularly like Sano ought to watch it to gain an understanding of the kid and what he needed to endure).  From his overblown suspension for a home run trot (which I thought was an utterly ridiculous overreaction from the Twins brass), to his emergence with the Twins in 2015, to today....I never once imagined him as moving into Miguel Cabrera territory or even "superstardom".  

All I wanted was the guy to be our cleanup hitter.  Maybe hit a lot of home runs and drive in a ton of runs.  Somebody has to do that.

So as far as expectations go, most people here did not create them.  We are the ones who heard the stories and read the articles.  If some people got their hopes up and imagined him to be better than what he turns out to be, so what?  IF some people want to say they are disappointed, so what?

There is room for varying opinions in my world.

 

Bottom line is, no one should apologize for hoping he'd be better than he is right now.  The fact is he strikes out wayyy to much and so has Buxton.  At least in the case of Buxton he has cut down on the whiffs so far this year, but Buxton was downright frightening at this point last year.  The trouble with Sano right now is he seems locked in to being the way he is.  He seems unwilling to adjust and as troubling is his weight.....

With both Sano and Buxton a lot of hype was generated and most of us just read about it.  Most of us didn't make projections and comparisons.  I actually read stuff about Buxton being comparable to Mike Trout.  In what world is that reasonable?  It is one thing to "think positive" and be "a fan" but it's an entirely different story to appreciate the game and be a fan without needing to slant things in your team's favor.

 

So far, Buxton and Sano have made an impact but neither are great hitters.  One has great speed and the other has great power.  These two are not GREAT hitters and that is a huge chunk of the game, imo.  I would like to see both hit over .270 someday, but they might not get there.

 

Things need to improve.  By saying that does it mean I think it won't improve?  Absolutely not.

 

Am I "panicked" or "worried"?  Not in the least.  I am just being honest about what I have seen.  No one should feel guilty about saying they expect more from Sano.  NO one.

Quite frankly, I am a fan of the guy.  I was not a fan of Gardy's brand of piranha baseball which seemed to shun power.  I was happy to see us draft Sano and I want him to do well.  That being said, the strikeouts (and some other things) are kind of disappointing.

[Brock Beauchamp]

That's the problem. He doesn't have that type of power.

He absolutely has that kind of power. When he’s healthy, he’s at or near the top of the leaderboard in exit velocity.

[gunnarthor]

 

That's the problem. He doesn't have that type of power.

He does.

[drivlikejehu]

 

We didn't scout him and write pieces on him.  Maybe a few people here did, but I did not.  I did not forecast any kind of expectations for him or Buxton.  Over the years I became a wait and see kind of guy.  Like everyone I remember Sano being drafted, but drafts are pie in the sky to me.  Been around too long to project a draft pick into anything.  Too much can happen.

 

He wasn't drafted, he was signed as an international free agent at age 16, which involves even more uncertainty than the typical 18 year-old HS draftee.

[ewen21]

Yeah you got me. Drafted was not the right word

[Squirrel]

MODERATOR WARNING: It's one thing to have concerns about where Sano's future is going, what kind of player he will be and will he fulfill the hitting role many of us hoped for, it is quite another to attack his personal character, something none of you know anything about first-hand, as reasons for his performance. This thread is not about his personal character and those assumptions and accusations will not stand. Period. Another person who references him as lazy, doesn't care, fat, too egotistical, doesn't have a work ethic will be pointed from here on out. It’s fair to have concerns about Sano’s condition and it’s fair to have doubts about his off-season and how the surgery and allegations could have an effect over all. However, please address these concerns of him as a ballplayer respectfully, without attacking his personal character. You can have complete disdain for a player, but respectfulness is not a choice on TD. And in reference to respectfulness of others, posters who jump to conclusions about other posters' characters will also be pointed going forward.

 

Thank you.

[launchingthrees]

 

He absolutely has that kind of power. When he’s healthy, he’s at or near the top of the leaderboard in exit velocity.

 

So when do the home runs start showing up? He's never been even close to leading the league in home runs. Not as a counting stat or a rate stat. The suggestion that he has a real chance at leading the league in home runs is absurd on its face.

 

30 HR's per 140 games isn't particularly notable in today's game.

[h2oface]

 

Perhaps you shouldn't put so much stock into perceptions gathered from such a distance.

 

Perhaps with distance, one can actually see things clearer than being very close all the time? I think it goes both ways, and both have advantages.

[Mr. Brooks]

So when do the home runs start showing up? He's never been even close to leading the league in home runs. Not as a counting stat or a rate stat. The suggestion that he has a real chance at leading the league in home runs is absurd on its face.

 

30 HR's per 140 games isn't particularly notable in today's game.

Doesn't power typically progress later than other abilities?

Brian Dozier hit 9 HR's as a 24 year old, 42 as a 29 year old.

 

Also, Sano has 37 HR's per 162 games for his career. That happens to be the exact same rate as Hank Aaron.

Harmon Killebrew had 38 per 162, Willie Mays had 36 per 162, Ken Griffey jr. had 38 per 162.

That 36 to 39 per 162 range is where most of the all time HR leaders check in at, in fact.

 

If you want to say he'll never be healthy enough to do it, ok fine, but to say he doesn't have the ability is just flat wrong.

[launchingthrees]

 

Doesn't power typically progress later than other abilities?
Brian Dozier hit 9 HR's as a 24 year old, 42 as a 29 year old.

Also, Sano has 37 HR's per 162 games for his career. That happens to be the exact same rate as Hank Aaron.
Harmon Killebrew had 38 per 162, Willie Mays had 36 per 162, Ken Griffey jr. had 38 per 162.
That 36 to 39 per 162 range is where most of the all time HR leaders check in at, in fact.

If you want to say he'll never be healthy enough to do it, ok fine, but to say he doesn't have the ability is just flat wrong.

 

I don't put any stock in HR production comparisons across generations. You may but I don't think there's any value to it and projection models don't either. We'll just have to agree to disagree as to the relevance of the earlier #s.

 

Who's betting that he'll decrease his strikeouts enough to have the opportunity to put up big HR #s?  If he does that can he ever average more than 120 games per year given his physical makeup and inability to do so at ages 22-24?

 

I'm betting against both laying heavy odds but very much hope I'm wrong.

[adorduan]

 

Doesn't power typically progress later than other abilities?
Brian Dozier hit 9 HR's as a 24 year old, 42 as a 29 year old.

Also, Sano has 37 HR's per 162 games for his career. That happens to be the exact same rate as Hank Aaron.
Harmon Killebrew had 38 per 162, Willie Mays had 36 per 162, Ken Griffey jr. had 38 per 162.
That 36 to 39 per 162 range is where most of the all time HR leaders check in at, in fact.

If you want to say he'll never be healthy enough to do it, ok fine, but to say he doesn't have the ability is just flat wrong.

No offense, but HR's were a bit harder to come by back in Aaron, Killebrew and May's playing days.