Ryan's Bullpen

[DaveW]

With Perkins going down, we are now stuck with only May being an above average arm in the pen (Jepsen is now the closer)

 

Trotting Fien out in a 4-3 game late is an embarrassment. Reason number 5,001 why Ryan has no business being a major league GM anymore after this year.

[Willihammer]

And both of those guys have been worked heavily. May has already worked 3 days in a row once since being converted to a reliever, and Jepsen twice in the short time since he was traded. By comparison the Yankees hadn't used a reliever in back to back to back days once all year as of a couple weeks ago when we played them (that might have changed since). They need another arm if for no other reason than to keep Jepsen and May healthy/effective down the stretch.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Fien was pretty good throughout August. He's not the guy you want as a first, second, or even third option but near the back of the pen, he's been okay. Unfortunately, he's one or two slots higher than he should be in this bullpen.

 

August stats:

 

17 games, 18.2 IP, 1 BB, 11 SO, 2 ER

[DaveW]

What are his september stats?

 

He shouldn't be in a "set up" position for a playoff contending club.

 

Ryan and Co need to face some harsh realities soon in regards to a team that has playoff aspirations:

Fien is a mop up guy

Boyer is a mop up guy

Pelfrey shouldn't be on the roster

Gibson, Duffey, Milone, Santana and nolasco are all #4 types

[Willihammer]

Molitor obviously doesn't trust 75% of the guys in his pen. If Berrios isn't going to see MLB time then Hughes should immediately be put there when he's eligible IMHO.

[DaveW]

And both of those guys have been worked heavily. May has already worked 3 days in a row once since being converted to a reliever, and Jepsen twice in the short time since he was traded. By comparison the Yankees hadn't used a reliever in back to back to back days once all year as of a couple weeks ago when we played them (that might have changed since). They need another arm if for no other reason than to keep Jepsen and May healthy/effective down the stretch.

which is why berrios would have been PERFECT

[Otto von Ballpark]

Fien was pretty good throughout August. He's not the guy you want as a first, second, or even third option but near the back of the pen, he's been okay. Unfortunately, he's one or two slots higher than he should be in this bullpen.

 

August stats:

 

17 games, 18.2 IP, 1 BB, 11 SO, 2 ER

And unfortunately, basically all but two of our healthy relievers are best suited to that "back of the pen" spot, even with expanded rosters. And it wasn't hard to foresee.

[Willihammer]

 

which is why berrios would have been PERFECT

But he's only 5' 11" so he's more of an injury risk than Jepsen and May working with no rest over and over because they're taller.

[Otto von Ballpark]

But he's only 5' 11" so he's more of an injury risk than Jepsen and May working with no rest over and over because they're taller.

The new guy wouldn't have to work with no rest, especially if he is throwing multiple innings at a time (which was once upon a time presumed to be May's role too, until the rest of the feeble pen made it necessary to keep him available every day).

[Vanimal46]

 

But he's only 5' 11" so he's more of an injury risk than Jepsen and May working with no rest over and over because they're taller.

 

I have the fire department on hold just in case if your keyboard burst into flames after that hot twins take. 

[Mike Sixel]

But he's only 5' 11" so he's more of an injury risk than Jepsen and May working with no rest over and over because they're taller.

Pure gold.

[DaveW]

But he's only 5' 11" so he's more of an injury risk than Jepsen and May working with no rest over and over because they're taller.

COTY

[bluechipper]

This has to be the only bullpen in the MLB with no one with a SO/9 over 9 (although Jepsen and May are close.) The Twins have been well behind the curve when it comes to filling up your bullpen with guys who throw 95+, but at least there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel with the flame-throwing minor leaguers who should be knocking on the door early next year.

[70charger]

I don't care if the sky IS falling. It's made out of air, what's the worst that can happen?

[Danchat]

This is from a post of mine in today's game thread, but I feel like I should post it here, too.

 

Name  (Age / K/9)

Perkins  32/8.2
Jepsen  30/8.0
May       25/8.5
Boyer    33/4.5
Duensing 32/4.8
Cotts     35/8.8
Fien       31/5.0
O'Rourke 27/11.4

 

 

Two observations:

1: Why do most of our relievers have to be 30 or older? I know why. Veteran-ness.

2: We still don't strike out enough guys. I like the additions of Jepsen and Cotts (the Jepsen trade has worked out really well so far), but Boyer, Fien, and Duensing are still getting important innings. The Twins need to get to the point where they don't need to trust any of these 3 with a lead.

[DaveW]

This is from a post of mine in today's game thread, but I feel like I should post it here, too.

 

Name (Age / K/9)

 

Perkins 32/8.2

Jepsen 30/8.0

May 25/8.5

Boyer 33/4.5

Duensing 32/4.8

Cotts 35/8.8

Fien 31/5.0

O'Rourke 27/11.4

 

 

Two observations:

1: Why do most of our relievers have to be 30 or older? I know why. Veteran-ness.

2: We still don't strike out enough guys. I like the additions of Jepsen and Cotts (the Jepsen trade has worked out really well so far), but Boyer, Fien, and Duensing are still getting important innings. The Twins need to get to the point where they don't need to trust any of these 3 with a lead.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[DocBauer]

Going to slowly and calmly cross to the other side of the aisle.

 

With little exception, (Stauffer being the big one), the bullpen was pretty solid and reliable up until the start of the second half. And a big part of that was Perkins suddenly doing his best to imitate Ron Davis. And I have to believe his physical issues were starting at that point, though I have yet to read any such admission. 

 

Should the FO have made a move(s) to fortify the bullpen sooner than they did? Probably

Should they have have added more than the two arms that they did? Meh...I think that's a maybe.

 

Look, Perkins healthy and productive, with Jepsen, May and Cotts setting him up, the likes of Fien, Boyer, a better Duensing and others providing mid innings, we're sitting pretty good. 

 

Perkins gets hurt, everyone has to bump up a slot, so panic sets in.

 

But doesn't it always get tougher when one of your top players goes down?

[DaveW]

The bullpen was ok the first half but most could tell it was smoke and mirrors, which is what happens when you have a bunch of guys with poor k rates and poor k/Bob ratios.

[Rosterman]

And you have to trust the new guys, especially when you now have the ability to throw them out there for 1-2-3 batters at a time. You have Achter and Tonkin. You have O'Rourke, who put up against the right guy in the stretch here will be lights out. You still have the potential to move Pelfrey and Duffey to the bullpen and could've added Rogers, Darnell and Berrios to the rotation. You have Meyer who can pitch to one or two batters before getting into real rouble. Hell, you can bring back Thompson (or replace him with some otehr non-roster guy). And if a game is truly blowout city, you have Shane Robinson.

 

Molitor, trust your bullpen. No need to do the same guys oevr and over again.

 

And, if the starters aren't getting the job done, tell Ryan you need more starters. Rogers, Berrios, Danrell. Get rid of Thompson and promote Dean. Any of the new guys poitching know this is their one big chance. If they blow it, they MAY NOT have a 40-man spot come November and may be sluming the minor league free agent market next season.

[twinsnorth49]

God I'm sick of this topic, not because it keeps getting brought up, because it still has to be brought up.

 

 

[spinowner]

I'm certainly not confident in our bullpen, but I'm at a loss to see any reasonable moves TR and PM should or could have made to improve the situation.

Don't say trade for established relievers outside the organization. To get our bullpen to the level that could consistently shut other teams down would have required bringing in at least four high-quality pitchers. The price for that would have been several of our best prospects. Think Kepler, Berrios, Vargas and the like. Not prudent.

Don't say bring up Berrios. IMHO the Twins handled him correctly by keeping him in a minor league starting rotation, assuring that he gets his work done as a developing pitcher. IMHO putting him in the Twins bullpen this season would have stopped his development, and maybe even led to him regressing. He'd have been pitching in sporadic unpredictable situations and IMHO that's not how your best starting prospect should be handled.

As for the other minor leaguers, I am certain that the front office and field staffs of the various teams have a good handle on what they think their pitchers can do. I am also certain that they would have called up some of those named in the above comments if they thought there was a chance they could succeed. There certainly wasn't any great success with those they did call up. O'Rourke was probably the best and he's been mediocre.

I'm not saying to give up on this season, but perspective is important. No matter what we may have done we would not have passed the Royals in the standings. We just wouldn't have. Period. And last season notwithstanding wild card teams have the postseason deck stacked against them big time. This season was not the time to go all in. The odds against winning a WS were too great. Now that we have shown everyone that we are a team on the rise it will be easier for TR to bring in better relievers than Thompson or Boyer. It's not great fun, but our best move is to limp along with what we've got and hope we can upgrade during the off-season.

[Kwak]

The cure to bullpen woes is simple--better and longer starts from the starters.  The standard needs to be changed to seven innings  and there needs to be a discontinuance from the reliance (abuse!) on using one-batter pitchers.

[twinsnorth49]

They didn't need four arms.

 

Nobody believed they would catch KC and it would have taken more than four bullpen arms anyway.

 

They needed one other guy, someone better than Jepsen, as well as Jepsen himself. It would not have cost them any of the guys listed above.

 

Berrios isn't going to be harmed or stunted by being in the pen from August on. He's going to face major league hitters and get a taste of what he's in for, a chance to acclimate. He wouldn't be the first highly regarded pitching prospect to start in the bullpen.

 

If the Twins do that, it's likely that gong show in NY doesn't happen and neither does today.

 

This bullpen was trouble from day 1, professional baseball people should have been able to recognize that.

[jimmer]

 

Berrios isn't going to be harmed or stunted by being in the pen from August on. He's going to face major league hitters and get a taste of what he's in for, a chance to acclimate. He wouldn't be the first highly regarded pitching prospect to start in the bullpen.

.

Look at the bright side, maybe they will take that course of action next year :-)

[DaveW]

They didn't need four arms.

 

Nobody believed they would catch KC and it would have taken more than four bullpen arms anyway.

 

They needed one other guy, someone better than Jepsen, as well as Jepsen himself. It would not have cost them any of the guys listed above.

 

Berrios isn't going to be harmed or stunted by being in the pen from August on. He's going to face major league hitters and get a taste of what he's in for, a chance to acclimate. He wouldn't be the first highly regarded pitching prospect to start in the bullpen.

 

If the Twins do that, it's likely that gong show in NY doesn't happen and neither does today.

 

This bullpen was trouble from day 1, professional baseball people should have been able to recognize that.

It's especially frustrating because the cost for some very good RP was so low this year at the deadline. They definitely need two arms, or if you are only going to get one arm, at least figure out a way to upgrade back up catcher, bench bat, 4th OF or something.

[sane]

The Twins could still call up Michael Bowden from Rochester and JT Chargois from Chattanooga.

Bowden 10-5W-L, 2.68ERA, 117 IP, 1.12WHIP; started and relieved in AAA, 6 yrs/133Innings. in MLB.

Former 1st round pick of Red Sox In 2005...Now 28-yrs-old.

 

Chargois has only pitched 30 innings this year.; 2.93 ERA, Twins 2nd round draft pick in 2012.

Likely to be on 40-man-roster after season anyway.

[USAFChief]

Wouldn't Bowden require a 40 man spot?

[lukeduke1980]

Maybe we could call up Jim Bowden

[sane]

 

Wouldn't Bowden require a 40 man spot?

Yes, but he could be off-loaded (if it's a good idea) after the season, prior to Rule V. Right now, he could replace Aaron Thompson or Logan Darnell.(for example)

[Monkeypaws]

This thread ignores the fact that before yesterday's bad outing, going back to July 30, Fien had made 19 appearances, pitched 21 innings, and allowed a whopping 3 runs on 16 hits, striking out 12 and walking 1.

 

But now he's rubbish.

 

Are we going to have these threads every time a Twin has a bad game?