Brewers 9, Twins 8: Rally Falls Short, Brewers Sweep Series

[Vanimal46]

13 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Even the starters aren't prepared to be starters. 

Festa topped out at 102 IP in any minor league season. 92 IP in 24 games in 2023. 92, ferpetesakes. 

Starters go 4 or 5 innings once a week. Pretty much never throw even 100 pitches.

How the heck do they imagine that prepares anyone for any kind of MLB career?

Here’s the fun part… It won’t. We will then spend the first 2+ seasons of their careers with an extremely quick hook and coddling them with openers. 

[TheLeviathan]

It's clear that Milwaukee emphasizes drafting players who are athletes - they can run and field.  

The ownership situation gives me zero confidence we'll see changes, but man would I like to see a new FO that does more to add athletes to this farm system.  I'm pretty happy with what they do on pitching overall, but we need to overhaul the other part of our draft work.

[USAFChief]

8 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Here’s the fun part… It won’t. We will then spend the first 2+ seasons of their careers with an extremely quick hook and coddling them with openers. 

I mean, I guess they're trying to avoid injury. I guess. But its counterproductive. 

[Mike Sixel]

24 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

It's clear that Milwaukee emphasizes drafting players who are athletes - they can run and field.  

The ownership situation gives me zero confidence we'll see changes, but man would I like to see a new FO that does more to add athletes to this farm system.  I'm pretty happy with what they do on pitching overall, but we need to overhaul the other part of our draft work.

Looking at the minors, I think they made this change two or three years ago. It's just not here yet. Not that I'd keep this FO....

[Linus]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Guys get traded with no trade clauses all the time. 

I'm getting repetitive here, but this team is toast and should be turned over to the youth to learn, or learn they can't be counted on. 

Thanks Hans. 

[wavedog]

How about roster management - what is Bride still doing on the roster - and Keirsey is pretty much useless at the plate.   Back to Bride, left to face McGill in the bottom of the 8th because Castro is injured and Vazquez is well Vazquez I guess.    At-bat went as poorly as expected - was hoping for a Blind Squirrel finds a nut once and a while but alas the squirrel went nutless again in this case.    9th inning at-bats - hit ties the game with a runner at second (well maybe not for us) but a pop-up on a favorable count swinging for St. Paul and then 2 swings at balls and a caught-looking for the 3rd strike.   

[mnfireman]

This team has found out that the little things matter in baseball, yet they keep playing for the HR that will erase all mistakes. Catching the ball, throwing the ball, and running the bases all still matter, and if you can't successfully do any of them you will lose games....a LOT of games. 

[knothole61]

3 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Thank you for the answer. I guess a number of people see Wallner as a viable position player.

I'm not convinced right now. My view of him is a little bit dispassionate and cold. He is totally different but shares fan appreciation love similar to Royce Lewis; guys who have produced very sporadically but have done nothing in the sum of their careers. Wallner currently has 10 RBIs (Yelich  had 8 RBIs in one game), which I use specifically because most people today disparage that statistic. Runs scored are important and someone needs to push them towards nome plate. Wallner is 27 and has 4 years of partial play. Two years ago a friend of mine (coach of a national league team) asked me about Wallner in the outfield. I told him that his transfer and release negated his arm. That team ran on him all weekend. Wallner improved in that area last season but fell back into his old ways again. His routes are quite good and he has some fair speed but his reads put him below McCusker as an outfielder, which is still well above Larnach. Wallner ILarnach, McCusker too) needs to hit a ton to make up for the balls that fall in the outfield. Honestly these guys are all DH only types like Nelson Cruz minus the consistent production with a bat. 

Falvey crapped the bed and missed a few golden opportunities to sell high on a number of Twins players. Without an infusion via some path (trades, FA), the Twins are going to tumble. 

This is only view, of course, and others will have totally different thoughts on guys like Jeffers, Miranda, Julien, Lee, Lewis, Larnach, and Wallner.

T & R, I love your analysis of Wallner. A few games ago a single fell in front of him that I felt the character in Damn Yankees could have gotten to even after having been turned back from young Joe Hardy into old Joe Boyd! At this point (27) his fielding is nothing to write home about and he's a .200ish pop up and K machine who hits an occasional, and often magnificent, moon shot to the terrace in right! I hope he hits his stride soon, but as hard as it is to say, he may have reached his peak already..."so we beat on."

[Bracky]

45 minutes ago, wavedog said:

How about roster management - what is Bride still doing on the roster - and Keirsey is pretty much useless at the plate.   Back to Bride, left to face McGill in the bottom of the 8th because Castro is injured and Vazquez is well Vazquez I guess.    At-bat went as poorly as expected - was hoping for a Blind Squirrel finds a nut once and a while but alas the squirrel went nutless again in this case.    9th inning at-bats - hit ties the game with a runner at second (well maybe not for us) but a pop-up on a favorable count swinging for St. Paul and then 2 swings at balls and a caught-looking for the 3rd strike.   

This! I for the life of me can't really figure this out either. It just doesn't pass the test to think we have nobody in AAA that couldn't be providing more contribution than Bride. Seems little to lose at this point trying somebody (almost anybody) in this place. 

[Fezig]

I fully expected a Baldelli termination if the Twins got swept and gave up another boatload of runs. I'd venture to guess most clubs would have replaced their manager after two large losing streaks. 

[NYCTK]

36 minutes ago, Fezig said:

I fully expected a Baldelli termination if the Twins got swept and gave up another boatload of runs. I'd venture to guess most clubs would have replaced their manager after two large losing streaks. 

He 100% should have been fired immediately after last season. But every other coach was offered up instead. 

[TheLeviathan]

10 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Looking at the minors, I think they made this change two or three years ago. It's just not here yet. Not that I'd keep this FO....

I hope you're right and Keaschall is a guy that looks a bit closer to that....but man I'm sick of watching other teams be able to run and we just station to station ourselves to death.

[Doctor Gast]

9 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Byron Buxton and Carlos Correa are the beginning and the end of the core of position players on the Minnesota Twins team and both are reduced defensively since their prime, especially in range. Correa is also fighting his swing and finding difficulty to hit consistently, particularly when it matters. Byron is really hitting wonderfully right now and looking good on the bases as well. Sometime fans need to be objective even while still loyal followers and supporters of their teams.

Thank you, T&R, rest assured, my objective has remained the same. That is to win a World Series. So, what or who is standing in the way of obtaining that objective? Is it Byron or Carlos? If it is, how much can we get in return for them? I'm all for trading away any player at their high trade value to obtain a player that fills a greater need (which I'm often highly criticized for). We've had many great players to go through this organization the past 20+ years, 1st ballot HoF Mauer tops that list, and you can add Morneau, Hunter, Santana, & Liriano. But none of them helped MN win a postseason game.

Lopez & Correa not only helped us win a postseason game but also a postseason series. Falvey boasted how his "all or nothing" hitting approach was the factor that took us to the postseason. But I differ; we won despite this philosophy. (They went all in on this philosophy in '24 to our demise.) I believe we could have gone further w/o Failvey's philosophies. 

Correa & Lopez fell into our laps, they bring w/ them a lot of intangibles. Do you know how difficult it is to bring in this caliber of talent? Yeah, we wasted their talents & our open window in '24, This season, Lopez is on the IL, Correa starts slow & seems to be playing hurt & the Twins are losing. Falvey loves social media blaming the core for our problems because it takes our eyes off our real problem.

The point of my post of not trading off our core, isn't that I'm sentimental. It's because I see them as part of the solution of obtaining my hopeful objective not a deterrent. & my lack of confidence in Falvey to be able to produce a core that'll take us to the big dance (which I won't list because I've posted & blogged so many times before.) I don't hate Falvey, I just see him as a deterrent of that objective (it's not subjective). IMO, our main core can show the next core how to do it & mentor them. This is the best way to prepare them, not having them floundering under Falvey & Co.

[tony&rodney]

2 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

Thank you, T&R, rest assured, my objective has remained the same. That is to win a World Series. So, what or who is standing in the way of obtaining that objective? Is it Byron or Carlos? If it is, how much can we get in return for them? I'm all for trading away any player at their high trade value to obtain a player that fills a greater need (which I'm often highly criticized for). We've had many great players to go through this organization the past 20+ years, 1st ballot HoF Mauer tops that list, and you can add Morneau, Hunter, Santana, & Liriano. But none of them helped MN win a postseason game.

Lopez & Correa not only helped us win a postseason game but also a postseason series. Falvey boasted how his "all or nothing" hitting approach was the factor that took us to the postseason. But I differ; we won despite this philosophy. (They went all in on this philosophy in '24 to our demise.) I believe we could have gone further w/o Failvey's philosophies. 

Correa & Lopez fell into our laps, they bring w/ them a lot of intangibles. Do you know how difficult it is to bring in this caliber of talent? Yeah, we wasted their talents & our open window in '24, This season, Lopez is on the IL, Correa starts slow & seems to be playing hurt & the Twins are losing. Falvey loves social media blaming the core for our problems because it takes our eyes off our real problem.

The point of my post of not trading off our core, isn't that I'm sentimental. It's because I see them as part of the solution of obtaining my hopeful objective not a deterrent. & my lack of confidence in Falvey to be able to produce a core that'll take us to the big dance (which I won't list because I've posted & blogged so many times before.) I don't hate Falvey, I just see him as a deterrent of that objective (it's not subjective). IMO, our main core can show the next core how to do it & mentor them. This is the best way to prepare them, not having them floundering under Falvey & Co.

The reason I name Correa and Buxton as core players is because they have long term contracts that include the no trade option. I watch way to much baseball late at night. I have been a Twins fan since 1961. The Twins don't have a single position player that I consider untouchable. That is why I don't really see a core. Last October and November I wondered how the team could improve their talent. Among my suggestions (which admittedly may have been immediately dismissed by many including the teams trading with the Twins) were to trade Brooks Lee plus lesser pieces to Milwaukee for Jeferson Quero. Additionally, I guessed that Pittsburgh might be open to transactions which sent them Wallner or Larnach. In previous years I suggested moving all of Julien, Miranda, and Lewis in various deals because I believed their value had peaked and that the Twins needed talent. I'm aware that most of these ideas would be dismissed or find a cold reception from the other teams. I think the Twins have decent pitching but their position players are slow which affects movement on the bases and relegates them to being poor in the field. A lack of foot speed, team wide, is a recipe for losing. Lastly, these types of teams (the Twins) are not very interesting for the common fan which affects attendance. It is what it is, but expecting anything more than 83-85 wins as a ceiling is unrealistic. It is the design.

[TwinsDr2021]

11 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Looking at the minors, I think they made this change two or three years ago. It's just not here yet. Not that I'd keep this FO....

agreed, my problem with this FO is they seem so dam reactionary to the trends and always are late to the game, by the time they get there the next trend is starting and they are reacting to that one. 

To your first point, I would love to turn it over to youth, but who? They are hurt or way back in A or A+? They have tried to turn it over, but this round of prospects have failed, Miranda, Julien, Larnach, Wallner, Lewis, and every starting pitcher they have brought up. (Yes, failed might be a bit strong for some of these guys because they have been decent at times or injured) Jeffers and Ober are really the only two guys they have developed where we can say everyday starters? right? It seems they are bringing in FA agents every year to fill most positions (or to back up and then turn into starters because of being terrible or injured)

[jmlease1]

12 hours ago, NYCTK said:

There is near zero risk of losing fan interest. They drew 21K on a Sunday against a team that typically has a large visiting crowd. For comparison they drew 36K last year against the Brewers Sunday game. 

Yes, ownership torpedoed fan interest last season and have done nothing to improve the situation. The utter botch on the tv last season and the borderline unprofessional roll-out of a tv deal this season has hurt the team badly with casual fans, especially when added to an awful collapse at the end of the season and a poor start to this year. Add in more hard-core fans being fed up as well and it's hardly a surprise that attendance is in the tank. About the only way to lose more fans if for the Pohlads to announce they're pulling the team off the market and that Joe will be in charge for at least the next several years. *shudder*

Regarding the game: Festa was bad. you simply can't give up 12 hits in less than 5 innings, especially with 3 walks on the tally. Unfortunately with injuries to both Lopez and Matthews, we don't have a lot of other options right now, with raya struggling in AAA and Morris battling an injury. Maybe Adams gets a shot, but they don't seem that excited by him as a starter.

Nice to see the offense wake up and score some runs, but a shame that 3 of the 4 Twins homers were solo shots. That's just bad luck though. Nice to see Lee & Correa both have 4 hit games. Buxton is just a monster right now, and it sucks that we seem to be wasting a great Buxton season.

[D.C Twins]

14 hours ago, RpR said:

Which would mean the Twin might become a post season team regularly how?

Is there some magic crystal ball that the Twin would magically become better and not another team with mediocre to just plain not good rookies.

Trading for the sake of trading is a fools folly.

I believe the 'fools folly' is more likely to be doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. 

This team as constructed ain't making a deep playoff run. 

[TwinsDr2021]

30 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

Thank you, T&R, rest assured, my objective has remained the same. That is to win a World Series. So, what or who is standing in the way of obtaining that objective? Is it Byron or Carlos?

I been a big advocate, for going for it in years they are doing well (basically every year but 21) but was told the next year or two was really the open window we can't trade guys away, well here we are in 25 with one successful season and talk about another rebuild, which would put the Twins window back out three, four, how many years? 

In that time the Twins would have won one playoff series and never really attempted to go for it (maybe signing CC was the big attempt but that was never enough), played terrible hardly watchable baseball most of the time and lost fans. 

I don't need every year to be world series type team, what I am looking for is when things go right, go for it, I know it probably won't work, but it is that kind of excitement that brings fans to games, knowing their team gave it there all when things were going good. I am also fine when things aren't moving pieces because again that brings excitement for the next possible big time prospect. But this standing pat, not trading for or trading away players (or just on the edges) gets Stale and boring, which I guess is fine if it is working. Plus the Twins seem to love to let prospects hang out (develop)in the minors for way too long and by the time they are up they are old by baseball standards and way less exciting then the young guy coming up that everybody is hoping to be that hall of fame generalization type talent. (And yes I understand most guys do need that time but aren't really ever full time, put their name in the lineup card everyday type players)

[NYCTK]

42 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

Lopez & Correa not only helped us win a postseason game but also a postseason series.

Twins fans have to stop referring to a 2023 Wild Card Series victory as some sort of real accomplishment. It was nice, but celebrating it as if it was meaningful is just sad. Like a Vikings fan praising the 2019 team because they beat the New Orleans Saints in the Wild Card game. 

 

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

agreed, my problem with this FO is they seem so dam reactionary to the trends and always are late to the game, by the time they get there the next trend is starting and they are reacting to that one. 

To your first point, I would love to turn it over to youth, but who? They are hurt or way back in A or A+? They have tried to turn it over, but this round of prospects have failed, Miranda, Julien, Larnach, Wallner, Lewis, and every starting pitcher they have brought up. (Yes, failed might be a bit strong for some of these guys because they have been decent at times or injured) Jeffers and Ober are really the only two guys they have developed where we can say everyday starters? right? It seems they are bringing in FA agents every year to fill most positions (or to back up and then turn into starters because of being terrible or injured)

Wallner has hit nearly forty percent better than league average for his career. Lewis is always hurt. I strongly disagree we know that the three young others are failures. It hasn't even been one year. I'm not sure how you feel about Lee..... But he's no failure. 

My point isn't so much cut a dude, but don't add more old dudes. Obviously, Keaschell should start every day when healthy. 

[Edmond Dantes]

13 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

It's clear that Milwaukee emphasizes drafting players who are athletes - they can run and field.  

The ownership situation gives me zero confidence we'll see changes, but man would I like to see a new FO that does more to add athletes to this farm system.  I'm pretty happy with what they do on pitching overall, but we need to overhaul the other part of our draft work.

While the sample size is small, Keaschall looks like he is going to be a terror on the base paths. He was the highlight of the season for me. The success rate of prospects is minuscule, but lets hope Jenkins, Culpepper, and DeBarge work out. All three offer the speed and athleticism this team drastically needs.

[RpR]

15 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Guys get traded with no trade clauses all the time. 

I'm getting repetitive here, but this team is toast and should be turned over to the youth to learn, or learn they can't be counted on. 

IF they Twins play in AAA which they do not.

Major league is not a baby sitting school for youths.

[RpR]

52 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Wallner has hit ....

That is the problem, HAS, not IS.

I doubt he is going any where, but he is not any thing resembling star power.

[Riverbrian]

18 hours ago, Hans Birkeland said:

-Buxton is about to have the most trade value he has had since he was the number one prospect in baseball. Despite certain fan ignorance surrounding his contract, he is on an extremely (and I can't stress this enough) cheap deal while performing as the best center fielder in baseball. Seriously he makes the 106th most money per year, right in front of Alex Cobb. Buxton wants to be here, and surely the front office wants him here, but if they are approached with a trade proposal of multiple top-50 prospects and some major league ready talent, they would have to at least entertain it.

 

I’m not sure I’d want the prospect or prospects acquired in the hands of the current regime. 
 

Do we want a left handed hitting prospect in the hands of these people?
 

How are we doing with the right handed hitters Miranda and Lewis? 
 

If this team needs to sell Buxton. I think I want a new front office handling the influx of young talent. 

[jmlease1]

52 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Wallner has hit nearly forty percent better than league average for his career. Lewis is always hurt. I strongly disagree we know that the three young others are failures. It hasn't even been one year. I'm not sure how you feel about Lee..... But he's no failure. 

My point isn't so much cut a dude, but don't add more old dudes. Obviously, Keaschell should start every day when healthy. 

This is part of the problem we're seeing right now: as soon as a young player wobbles a little, suddenly people are declaring him a bust, time to get rid of him, move on to the next shiny new thing. Lee seems to be figuring it out right before our eyes, but he gets bagged on regularly, Wallner can't have any slumps ever or he's trash, etc.

I definitely agree: getting older doesn't fix this team's issues and certainly doesn't position them well past this season.

I'm sure keaschall will start every day when he gets healthy, but god help him if he has a bad week.

[USAFChief]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Wallner has hit nearly forty percent better than league average for his career. 

False.

32 percent. As measured by OPS+.

And its 5 percent in 2025.

I like Wallner, but he K's too much to be someone you can hope to build an offense around. He'd make a nice 6 or 7 hole hitter for a real offense.

[NYCTK]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'm not sure how you feel about Lee..... But he's no failure. 

I agree, he's not a failure. But I understand the frustration based on expectations of a high-ish 1st round pick. If you want to cheap, decent infielder, great. But you can buy get those on the market for fairly cheap anyways.

He's not a great athlete, and has no star potential. While he can still improve some, it seems like he maxes out as a 2 WAR player if things go well. Cost control is great, and so many 1st rounders flame out completely, but hard to get excited about a 1st rounder that has a best case as a decent player that you can see hitting 7th on a good team. 

[TwinsDr2021]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Wallner has hit nearly forty percent better than league average for his career. Lewis is always hurt. I strongly disagree we know that the three young others are failures. It hasn't even been one year. I'm not sure how you feel about Lee..... But he's no failure. 

My point isn't so much cut a dude, but don't add more old dudes. Obviously, Keaschell should start every day when healthy. 

I like Wallner and think he should be and should have been given more opportunities to play every day.

But this is his 4th year and has played in 206 with 721 plate appearances and his OPS against LHP is .539, so I have a huge problem saying he has hit 40% better than the league unless you add a huge qualifier like when he plays  and when he plays solely against right handed pitchers. Plus this year is slightly better than average with 109 out of 141 being against right handed hitters. 

So failed is a bit strong (Like I mentioned above) but the Twins don't play him like a full time hitter and he requires a platoon so...... 

Each player only looked at by themselves might not be a failure or actually decent, but as a whole, they all require a 40 man spot and not one has taken the bull by horns and grabbed and held on to a spot, either for injury, needing a platoon, or being bad. 

As for Lee, he seems like he might actually being doing this, but at point or another so did Miranda, Julien, Larnach and Lewis.  

As for Keashcall I really like him as well (as I do Wallner and Lee) but right now he has 26 plate appearances, so get healthy and stick him in the lineup everyday and see how it goes. 

As for the pitchers SWR turns 25 in September, and Festa and Matthews are already 25, again not old in the grand scheme of things, but you would hope they would be a bit further along by now., no?

Prospects like Festa, Lee, Matthews, SWR are not "Failures" but they aren't successes yet either. I mean all three of those pitchers average less than 5 innings per start with ERA's over 5. 

[TwinsDr2021]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

False.

32 percent. As measured by OPS+.

And its 5 percent in 2025.

I like Wallner, but he K's too much to be someone you can hope to build an offense around. He'd make a nice 6 or 7 hole hitter for a real offense.

You let out against right handed pitchers.

[Doctor Gast]

3 hours ago, NYCTK said:

Twins fans have to stop referring to a 2023 Wild Card Series victory as some sort of real accomplishment. It was nice, but celebrating it as if it was meaningful is just sad. Like a Vikings fan praising the 2019 team because they beat the New Orleans Saints in the Wild Card game. 

 

You have no idea what it has been like to be a Twins fan those past 20+ years w/o a postseason game win. To suffer from that humiliation. In the big picture of winning the big one, I agree that it's sad but to get that monkey off our back was huge; something to build off of, but that hasn't happened.