Sale of the Minnesota Twins Franchise Reportedly Trending Toward Completion

[Bob Twins Fan Since 61]

My suspicion is that this information about future sale being close was leaked.  Due to the Pohlads wanting to be no-shows at the upcoming Twins fest.  They don't want to face the wrath of the fanbase.  Whatever it takes to move forward works for me.  I do hope the new ownership give Falvey and his team a chance going forward.  I believe they are competent, and budget constraints have held them back from being more successful.  I even think new ownership attraction partially to buying the Twins is that they believe Falvey and his team are competent.  Making the need to recruit and staff a new organization on the baseball side unnecessary.  Which will allow them to get off to quick start after taking over the Twins.

[bean5302]

  

30 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

I am overjoyed! There shouldn't be any doubt that the Ishbia bros. are the ones. If there are others the bros. are looking for local minority partners to keep it local. The original 2.2 billion estimate for the Twins difference from the actual 2.7 billion that the Pohlads will receive to avoid complications, is half a billion dollars. Pohlads paid $44M for the Twins, that's less than what some MLB players get per year now. That's well over $2B profit, don't you think the Pohlads could afford to forego any overbudget cost they constituted (maybe $10M)? Let's stop the "we have to trade a Correa, Lopez, Ryan, Ober, Castro or Vazquez" talk. Let the bros decide how to run the team.

BTW, who'll be responsible for this year's salary? Isn't it the bros?

The valuation for the Twins by Forbes was 1.46 billion. The asking price from the Pohlad's was 1.7 billion.

Here's a lesson in economics and finances.

Year	Inflation	Twins	S&P 500	S&P 500	Apple Computer
	3.04%	8.99%	9.16%	11.62%	20.60%
			no divs	reinvest div
1984	44,000,000	44,000,000	44,000,000	44,000,000	44,000,000
1985	45,337,600	47,955,600	48,030,400	49,112,800	53,064,000
1986	46,715,863	52,266,808	52,429,985	54,819,707	63,995,184
1987	48,136,025	56,965,595	57,232,571	61,189,757	77,178,192
1988	49,599,360	62,086,801	62,475,075	68,300,007	93,076,899
1989	51,107,181	67,668,405	68,197,792	76,236,468	112,250,741
1990	52,660,839	73,751,795	74,444,709	85,095,146	135,374,393
1991	54,261,729	80,382,081	81,263,845	94,983,201	163,261,518
1992	55,911,285	87,608,430	88,707,613	106,020,250	196,893,391
1993	57,610,988	95,484,428	96,833,230	118,339,802	237,453,430
1994	59,362,363	104,068,478	105,703,154	132,090,888	286,368,836
1995	61,166,978	113,424,234	115,385,563	147,439,849	345,360,816
1996	63,026,454	123,621,073	125,954,881	164,572,359	416,505,145
1997	64,942,459	134,734,607	137,492,348	183,695,667	502,305,204
1998	66,916,709	146,847,248	150,086,647	205,041,104	605,780,077
1999	68,950,977	160,048,816	163,834,584	228,866,880	730,570,772
2000	71,047,087	174,437,204	178,841,831	255,461,211	881,068,351
2001	73,206,919	190,119,109	195,223,743	285,145,804	1,062,568,432
2002	75,432,409	207,210,817	213,106,238	318,279,747	1,281,457,529
2003	77,725,554	225,839,069	232,626,769	355,263,853	1,545,437,780
2004	80,088,411	246,142,002	253,935,381	396,545,513	1,863,797,962
2005	82,523,099	268,270,168	277,195,862	442,624,102	2,247,740,342
2006	85,031,801	292,387,656	302,587,003	494,057,022	2,710,774,853
2007	87,616,768	318,673,306	330,303,973	551,466,448	3,269,194,473
2008	90,280,317	347,322,036	360,559,817	615,546,849	3,942,648,534
2009	93,024,839	378,546,287	393,587,096	687,073,393	4,754,834,132
2010	95,852,794	412,577,599	429,639,674	766,911,322	5,734,329,963
2011	98,766,719	449,668,325	468,994,668	856,026,417	6,915,601,936
2012	101,769,227	490,093,507	511,954,580	955,496,687	8,340,215,935
2013	104,863,012	534,152,913	558,849,619	1,066,525,402	10,058,300,417
2014	108,050,847	582,173,260	610,040,244	1,190,455,654	12,130,310,303
2015	111,335,593	634,510,636	665,919,931	1,328,786,601	14,629,154,226
2016	114,720,195	691,553,142	726,918,196	1,483,191,604	17,642,759,996
2017	118,207,689	753,723,770	793,503,903	1,655,538,468	21,277,168,555
2018	121,801,203	821,483,537	866,188,861	1,847,912,038	25,660,265,277
2019	125,503,959	895,334,907	945,531,760	2,062,639,417	30,946,279,925
2020	129,319,280	975,825,515	1,032,142,470	2,302,318,117	37,321,213,589
2021	133,250,586	1,063,552,229	1,126,686,720	2,569,847,482	45,009,383,588
2022	137,301,404	1,159,165,574	1,229,891,224	2,868,463,760	54,281,316,608
2023	141,475,366	1,263,374,559	1,342,549,260	3,201,779,249	65,463,267,829
2024	145,776,217	1,376,951,932	1,465,526,772	3,573,825,997	78,948,701,002
2025	150,207,814	1,500,739,911	1,599,769,024	3,989,104,578	95,212,133,408

If Carl Pohlad had invested $44MM in Apple Computer, it'd be worth 63x more than the Twins right now. If he put it into an S&P500 (Stock Index) portfolio and reinvested the dividends, it'd be worth $4 billion.

The Pohlad family does not negotiate contracts on the Minnesota Twins or control the roster. The President of Baseball Operations, Derek Falvey, handles those duties. The Pohlads don't sweep the stadium floors or do the plumbing work or coach the team in the dugout, either. They're not getting their hands dirty over Christian Vazquez. They DID sign off on adding a long term $30MM / yr contract, exploding their budget way beyond expectations in 2022 and again in 2023.

[bean5302]

There are absolutely NDA's for the Twins AND the Ishbias and any other bidding party. The Ishbia family does not want any other prospective buyer knowing exactly what the Ishbia offer looks like. 

[USAFChief]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

I am overjoyed! There shouldn't be any doubt that the Ishbia bros. are the ones. If there are others the bros. are looking for local minority partners to keep it local. The original 2.2 billion estimate for the Twins difference from the actual 2.7 billion that the Pohlads will receive to avoid complications, is half a billion dollars. Pohlads paid $44M for the Twins, that's less than what some MLB players get per year now. That's well over $2B profit, don't you think the Pohlads could afford to forego any overbudget cost they constituted (maybe $10M)? Let's stop the "we have to trade a Correa, Lopez, Ryan, Ober, Castro or Vazquez" talk. Let the bros decide how to run the team.

BTW, who'll be responsible for this year's salary? Isn't it the bros?

$2.2 B?

$2.7 B??

 

Try ~$1.5 

[Hubie29]

12 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

  

 

The Pohlad family does not negotiate contracts on the Minnesota Twins or control the roster. 

Indirectly they do control the roster, keeping it minor league, by hiding their purse.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

25 minutes ago, Hubie29 said:

The excitement and return of the fan base won't happen until we get new owners. We've been dealing with a glorified minor league team for years with the Pohlads. Simple, people are finding other things to do, and other things to spend their money on. Little or no effort from the owners equals little or no dedication from the fans. Myself included. 

Glorified minor league teams have records like the White Sox  and are not competitive.   I too would like to see more investment in the team, however, calling it a glorified minor league team is a little over the top.  
 

More investment will definitely increase the potential for success, but it’s certainly no guarantee.  Ask the Angels.  You’ve got to invest it wisely.  

[jmlease1]

I'm definitely in the "can't happen soon enough" camp. I'm tired of the Pohlads as owners: for the most part they don't really care about baseball all that much, and while it might be a family business, for the most part the family haven't been all that active in running the club. (for the most part that's probably been good (having fewer nepotism hires), but it also means they're not as invested in its success) 

While they're not the worst owners around, they also haven't been particularly good. They were successful in leveraging a new stadium out of the public coffers, and while it's a great stadium and certainly improves the viewing experience over the Dome (which simply sucked for baseball outside of the noise for playoff games), ownership received more benefit from that than anyone. It's been more than 30 years since we won a title, and our playoff record since '91 became a national punchline. From a business standpoint they haven't exactly set the world on fire with expanding the fanbase, developing new revenue streams, and have failed repeatedly when it comes to the media side (botching an attempt to create their own channel, mishandling radio, staying behind the 8-ball on streaming, and fiddling while the RSNs burned just to name a few). In terms of popularity, they're behind the Vikings, Wild, and Wolves. The best thing that can be said about the Pohlad regime is that they didn't embarrass themselves in public (at least not after the contraction debacle), and while that puts them ahead of some, it's still thin gruel.

They have been so cheap that getting up to a middle of the pack payroll felt like a gift from the heavens, which is pretty awful. Their unwillingness to spend when the club was well positioned to contend in 2024 puts them back in the rotten class.

the next owners may turn out to be sleazebags, con artists, or incompetent...but the odds are pretty good they won't actually be worse than the Pohlads, who will leave with a legacy of "cheap, but not actively evil". Low bar to clear, IMHO.

I'm betting the Ishbias have the inside track for a couple of reasons: 1) they've already been vetted by the NBA, so the skeletons have already been cleared out of the closets, 2) there's no question that they have real money (as opposed to what's been going on with the Wolves), and 3) Justin is known to actually love baseball. Maybe there's another huge money candidate or three out there that we're not hearing about, but this fits the profile of what MLB wants: exceptionally rich owners that aren't going to see the team as an asset to be flipped in 5 years.

regardless, I'm willing to take a chance on new ownership rather than endure more of the same from the Pohlads, who simply don't care enough about the Twins as anything other than an asset to have them improve on the field, and have failed from a business perspective in pretty much every way except getting the public to build a stadium for them.

[bean5302]

3 minutes ago, Hubie29 said:

Indirectly they do control the roster, keeping it minor league, by hiding their purse.

They're projected to have the 17th highest payroll in MLB right now with the highest payroll in the AL Central. They signed off on 5 big contracts over the past few years (Donaldson, Buxton, Correa 1, Correa 2, Lopez). They were willing to blow their budget up in 2022 to sign and 2023 to bring back Correa.

[ashbury]

Limbo's never good.  That which ye do, do quickly.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

25 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

  

The valuation for the Twins by Forbes was 1.46 billion. The asking price from the Pohlad's was 1.7 billion.

Here's a lesson in economics and finances.

Year	Inflation	Twins	S&P 500	S&P 500	Apple Computer
	3.04%	8.99%	9.16%	11.62%	20.60%
			no divs	reinvest div
1984	44,000,000	44,000,000	44,000,000	44,000,000	44,000,000
1985	45,337,600	47,955,600	48,030,400	49,112,800	53,064,000
1986	46,715,863	52,266,808	52,429,985	54,819,707	63,995,184
1987	48,136,025	56,965,595	57,232,571	61,189,757	77,178,192
1988	49,599,360	62,086,801	62,475,075	68,300,007	93,076,899
1989	51,107,181	67,668,405	68,197,792	76,236,468	112,250,741
1990	52,660,839	73,751,795	74,444,709	85,095,146	135,374,393
1991	54,261,729	80,382,081	81,263,845	94,983,201	163,261,518
1992	55,911,285	87,608,430	88,707,613	106,020,250	196,893,391
1993	57,610,988	95,484,428	96,833,230	118,339,802	237,453,430
1994	59,362,363	104,068,478	105,703,154	132,090,888	286,368,836
1995	61,166,978	113,424,234	115,385,563	147,439,849	345,360,816
1996	63,026,454	123,621,073	125,954,881	164,572,359	416,505,145
1997	64,942,459	134,734,607	137,492,348	183,695,667	502,305,204
1998	66,916,709	146,847,248	150,086,647	205,041,104	605,780,077
1999	68,950,977	160,048,816	163,834,584	228,866,880	730,570,772
2000	71,047,087	174,437,204	178,841,831	255,461,211	881,068,351
2001	73,206,919	190,119,109	195,223,743	285,145,804	1,062,568,432
2002	75,432,409	207,210,817	213,106,238	318,279,747	1,281,457,529
2003	77,725,554	225,839,069	232,626,769	355,263,853	1,545,437,780
2004	80,088,411	246,142,002	253,935,381	396,545,513	1,863,797,962
2005	82,523,099	268,270,168	277,195,862	442,624,102	2,247,740,342
2006	85,031,801	292,387,656	302,587,003	494,057,022	2,710,774,853
2007	87,616,768	318,673,306	330,303,973	551,466,448	3,269,194,473
2008	90,280,317	347,322,036	360,559,817	615,546,849	3,942,648,534
2009	93,024,839	378,546,287	393,587,096	687,073,393	4,754,834,132
2010	95,852,794	412,577,599	429,639,674	766,911,322	5,734,329,963
2011	98,766,719	449,668,325	468,994,668	856,026,417	6,915,601,936
2012	101,769,227	490,093,507	511,954,580	955,496,687	8,340,215,935
2013	104,863,012	534,152,913	558,849,619	1,066,525,402	10,058,300,417
2014	108,050,847	582,173,260	610,040,244	1,190,455,654	12,130,310,303
2015	111,335,593	634,510,636	665,919,931	1,328,786,601	14,629,154,226
2016	114,720,195	691,553,142	726,918,196	1,483,191,604	17,642,759,996
2017	118,207,689	753,723,770	793,503,903	1,655,538,468	21,277,168,555
2018	121,801,203	821,483,537	866,188,861	1,847,912,038	25,660,265,277
2019	125,503,959	895,334,907	945,531,760	2,062,639,417	30,946,279,925
2020	129,319,280	975,825,515	1,032,142,470	2,302,318,117	37,321,213,589
2021	133,250,586	1,063,552,229	1,126,686,720	2,569,847,482	45,009,383,588
2022	137,301,404	1,159,165,574	1,229,891,224	2,868,463,760	54,281,316,608
2023	141,475,366	1,263,374,559	1,342,549,260	3,201,779,249	65,463,267,829
2024	145,776,217	1,376,951,932	1,465,526,772	3,573,825,997	78,948,701,002
2025	150,207,814	1,500,739,911	1,599,769,024	3,989,104,578	95,212,133,408

If Carl Pohlad had invested $44MM in Apple Computer, it'd be worth 63x more than the Twins right now. If he put it into an S&P500 (Stock Index) portfolio and reinvested the dividends, it'd be worth $4 billion.

The Pohlad family does not negotiate contracts on the Minnesota Twins or control the roster. The President of Baseball Operations, Derek Falvey, handles those duties. The Pohlads don't sweep the stadium floors or do the plumbing work or coach the team in the dugout, either. They're not getting their hands dirty over Christian Vazquez. They DID sign off on adding a long term $30MM / yr contract, exploding their budget way beyond expectations in 2022 and again in 2023.

Ahhh.  The wonders of compound interest!  
I shed no tears for the Pohlads, but you are right, big time investments generate those kinds of returns.  If they didn’t, no one would want to buy the teams.   

[Doctor Gast]

31 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

$2.2 B?

$2.7 B??

 

Try ~$1.5 

Yes, my bad. Thanks for clearing that up. I was only a billion off. That's what I originally thought & then I double-checked & I read it wrong. Still a lot of money.

[Doctor Gast]

1 hour ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

I’m not sure I’ve seen an estimate of more than $2 billion for the Twins, but regardless, I do agree with your last point.  Perhaps the imminence of a sale has offset the urgency of shedding salary or trying to stick with a $130 million payroll.  Don’t misunderstand, I still don’t think they will add a bunch, but maybe there is a bit more of a chance that the status quo will remain for the payroll situation.  Maybe that’s part of the reason there hasn’t been a good old fashioned salary dump.  

I double-checked my #s & read it wrong. I was only a billion off. :)

[nicksaviking]

****Moderator Note**** 

Stay on topic and stay away from making posts personal.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

6 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

I double-checked my #s & read it wrong. I was only a billion off. :)

A billion here and a billion there. . . Pretty soon you’re talking real money!  😂

[VH 1]

Given the choice between the Pohlad family and someone else I will take my chances on someone else. It really doesn't make any sense to buy the team and run it in the ground.

[Doctor Gast]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

 Here's a lesson in economics and finances.

Year	Inflation	Twins	S&P 500	S&P 500	Apple Computer
	3.04%	8.99%	9.16%	11.62%	20.60%
			no divs	reinvest div
1984	44,000,000	44,000,000	44,000,000	44,000,000	44,000,000
1985	45,337,600	47,955,600	48,030,400	49,112,800	53,064,000
1986	46,715,863	52,266,808	52,429,985	54,819,707	63,995,184
1987	48,136,025	56,965,595	57,232,571	61,189,757	77,178,192
1988	49,599,360	62,086,801	62,475,075	68,300,007	93,076,899
1989	51,107,181	67,668,405	68,197,792	76,236,468	112,250,741
1990	52,660,839	73,751,795	74,444,709	85,095,146	135,374,393
1991	54,261,729	80,382,081	81,263,845	94,983,201	163,261,518
1992	55,911,285	87,608,430	88,707,613	106,020,250	196,893,391
1993	57,610,988	95,484,428	96,833,230	118,339,802	237,453,430
1994	59,362,363	104,068,478	105,703,154	132,090,888	286,368,836
1995	61,166,978	113,424,234	115,385,563	147,439,849	345,360,816
1996	63,026,454	123,621,073	125,954,881	164,572,359	416,505,145
1997	64,942,459	134,734,607	137,492,348	183,695,667	502,305,204
1998	66,916,709	146,847,248	150,086,647	205,041,104	605,780,077
1999	68,950,977	160,048,816	163,834,584	228,866,880	730,570,772
2000	71,047,087	174,437,204	178,841,831	255,461,211	881,068,351
2001	73,206,919	190,119,109	195,223,743	285,145,804	1,062,568,432
2002	75,432,409	207,210,817	213,106,238	318,279,747	1,281,457,529
2003	77,725,554	225,839,069	232,626,769	355,263,853	1,545,437,780
2004	80,088,411	246,142,002	253,935,381	396,545,513	1,863,797,962
2005	82,523,099	268,270,168	277,195,862	442,624,102	2,247,740,342
2006	85,031,801	292,387,656	302,587,003	494,057,022	2,710,774,853
2007	87,616,768	318,673,306	330,303,973	551,466,448	3,269,194,473
2008	90,280,317	347,322,036	360,559,817	615,546,849	3,942,648,534
2009	93,024,839	378,546,287	393,587,096	687,073,393	4,754,834,132
2010	95,852,794	412,577,599	429,639,674	766,911,322	5,734,329,963
2011	98,766,719	449,668,325	468,994,668	856,026,417	6,915,601,936
2012	101,769,227	490,093,507	511,954,580	955,496,687	8,340,215,935
2013	104,863,012	534,152,913	558,849,619	1,066,525,402	10,058,300,417
2014	108,050,847	582,173,260	610,040,244	1,190,455,654	12,130,310,303
2015	111,335,593	634,510,636	665,919,931	1,328,786,601	14,629,154,226
2016	114,720,195	691,553,142	726,918,196	1,483,191,604	17,642,759,996
2017	118,207,689	753,723,770	793,503,903	1,655,538,468	21,277,168,555
2018	121,801,203	821,483,537	866,188,861	1,847,912,038	25,660,265,277
2019	125,503,959	895,334,907	945,531,760	2,062,639,417	30,946,279,925
2020	129,319,280	975,825,515	1,032,142,470	2,302,318,117	37,321,213,589
2021	133,250,586	1,063,552,229	1,126,686,720	2,569,847,482	45,009,383,588
2022	137,301,404	1,159,165,574	1,229,891,224	2,868,463,760	54,281,316,608
2023	141,475,366	1,263,374,559	1,342,549,260	3,201,779,249	65,463,267,829
2024	145,776,217	1,376,951,932	1,465,526,772	3,573,825,997	78,948,701,002
2025	150,207,814	1,500,739,911	1,599,769,024	3,989,104,578	95,212,133,408

If Carl Pohlad had invested $44MM in Apple Computer, it'd be worth 63x more than the Twins right now. If he put it into an S&P500 (Stock Index) portfolio and reinvested the dividends, it'd be worth $4 billion.

The Pohlad family does not negotiate contracts on the Minnesota Twins or control the roster. The President of Baseball Operations, Derek Falvey, handles those duties. The Pohlads don't sweep the stadium floors or do the plumbing work or coach the team in the dugout, either. They're not getting their hands dirty over Christian Vazquez. They DID sign off on adding a long term $30MM / yr contract, exploding their budget way beyond expectations in 2022 and again in 2023.

If they invested that $44M in a bunch of poor businesses they would have lost money. I never said the Pohlads do the negotiations, but don't you think they have a say in their own business?

The Pohlads don't sweep the stadium floors or do the plumbing work or coach the team in the dugout, either.

How absurd!

[GNess]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

  

The valuation for the Twins by Forbes was 1.46 billion. The asking price from the Pohlad's was 1.7 billion.

Here's a lesson in economics and finances.

Year	Inflation	Twins	S&P 500	S&P 500	Apple Computer
	3.04%	8.99%	9.16%	11.62%	20.60%
			no divs	reinvest div
1984	44,000,000	44,000,000	44,000,000	44,000,000	44,000,000
1985	45,337,600	47,955,600	48,030,400	49,112,800	53,064,000
1986	46,715,863	52,266,808	52,429,985	54,819,707	63,995,184
1987	48,136,025	56,965,595	57,232,571	61,189,757	77,178,192
1988	49,599,360	62,086,801	62,475,075	68,300,007	93,076,899
1989	51,107,181	67,668,405	68,197,792	76,236,468	112,250,741
1990	52,660,839	73,751,795	74,444,709	85,095,146	135,374,393
1991	54,261,729	80,382,081	81,263,845	94,983,201	163,261,518
1992	55,911,285	87,608,430	88,707,613	106,020,250	196,893,391
1993	57,610,988	95,484,428	96,833,230	118,339,802	237,453,430
1994	59,362,363	104,068,478	105,703,154	132,090,888	286,368,836
1995	61,166,978	113,424,234	115,385,563	147,439,849	345,360,816
1996	63,026,454	123,621,073	125,954,881	164,572,359	416,505,145
1997	64,942,459	134,734,607	137,492,348	183,695,667	502,305,204
1998	66,916,709	146,847,248	150,086,647	205,041,104	605,780,077
1999	68,950,977	160,048,816	163,834,584	228,866,880	730,570,772
2000	71,047,087	174,437,204	178,841,831	255,461,211	881,068,351
2001	73,206,919	190,119,109	195,223,743	285,145,804	1,062,568,432
2002	75,432,409	207,210,817	213,106,238	318,279,747	1,281,457,529
2003	77,725,554	225,839,069	232,626,769	355,263,853	1,545,437,780
2004	80,088,411	246,142,002	253,935,381	396,545,513	1,863,797,962
2005	82,523,099	268,270,168	277,195,862	442,624,102	2,247,740,342
2006	85,031,801	292,387,656	302,587,003	494,057,022	2,710,774,853
2007	87,616,768	318,673,306	330,303,973	551,466,448	3,269,194,473
2008	90,280,317	347,322,036	360,559,817	615,546,849	3,942,648,534
2009	93,024,839	378,546,287	393,587,096	687,073,393	4,754,834,132
2010	95,852,794	412,577,599	429,639,674	766,911,322	5,734,329,963
2011	98,766,719	449,668,325	468,994,668	856,026,417	6,915,601,936
2012	101,769,227	490,093,507	511,954,580	955,496,687	8,340,215,935
2013	104,863,012	534,152,913	558,849,619	1,066,525,402	10,058,300,417
2014	108,050,847	582,173,260	610,040,244	1,190,455,654	12,130,310,303
2015	111,335,593	634,510,636	665,919,931	1,328,786,601	14,629,154,226
2016	114,720,195	691,553,142	726,918,196	1,483,191,604	17,642,759,996
2017	118,207,689	753,723,770	793,503,903	1,655,538,468	21,277,168,555
2018	121,801,203	821,483,537	866,188,861	1,847,912,038	25,660,265,277
2019	125,503,959	895,334,907	945,531,760	2,062,639,417	30,946,279,925
2020	129,319,280	975,825,515	1,032,142,470	2,302,318,117	37,321,213,589
2021	133,250,586	1,063,552,229	1,126,686,720	2,569,847,482	45,009,383,588
2022	137,301,404	1,159,165,574	1,229,891,224	2,868,463,760	54,281,316,608
2023	141,475,366	1,263,374,559	1,342,549,260	3,201,779,249	65,463,267,829
2024	145,776,217	1,376,951,932	1,465,526,772	3,573,825,997	78,948,701,002
2025	150,207,814	1,500,739,911	1,599,769,024	3,989,104,578	95,212,133,408

If Carl Pohlad had invested $44MM in Apple Computer, it'd be worth 63x more than the Twins right now. If he put it into an S&P500 (Stock Index) portfolio and reinvested the dividends, it'd be worth $4 billion.

The Pohlad family does not negotiate contracts on the Minnesota Twins or control the roster. The President of Baseball Operations, Derek Falvey, handles those duties. The Pohlads don't sweep the stadium floors or do the plumbing work or coach the team in the dugout, either. They're not getting their hands dirty over Christian Vazquez. They DID sign off on adding a long term $30MM / yr contract, exploding their budget way beyond expectations in 2022 and again in 2023.

Yes, you are right the Pohlads could have made better investments i terms of return on investment than owning the Twins. But damn making over a billion dollars is not a sharp stick in the eye.

 

[tony&rodney]

48 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

  

The valuation for the Twins by Forbes was 1.46 billion. The asking price from the Pohlad's was 1.7 billion.

Here's a lesson in economics and finances.

Year	Inflation	Twins	S&P 500	S&P 500	Apple Computer
	3.04%	8.99%	9.16%	11.62%	20.60%
			no divs	reinvest div
1984	44,000,000	44,000,000	44,000,000	44,000,000	44,000,000
1985	45,337,600	47,955,600	48,030,400	49,112,800	53,064,000
1986	46,715,863	52,266,808	52,429,985	54,819,707	63,995,184
1987	48,136,025	56,965,595	57,232,571	61,189,757	77,178,192
1988	49,599,360	62,086,801	62,475,075	68,300,007	93,076,899
1989	51,107,181	67,668,405	68,197,792	76,236,468	112,250,741
1990	52,660,839	73,751,795	74,444,709	85,095,146	135,374,393
1991	54,261,729	80,382,081	81,263,845	94,983,201	163,261,518
1992	55,911,285	87,608,430	88,707,613	106,020,250	196,893,391
1993	57,610,988	95,484,428	96,833,230	118,339,802	237,453,430
1994	59,362,363	104,068,478	105,703,154	132,090,888	286,368,836
1995	61,166,978	113,424,234	115,385,563	147,439,849	345,360,816
1996	63,026,454	123,621,073	125,954,881	164,572,359	416,505,145
1997	64,942,459	134,734,607	137,492,348	183,695,667	502,305,204
1998	66,916,709	146,847,248	150,086,647	205,041,104	605,780,077
1999	68,950,977	160,048,816	163,834,584	228,866,880	730,570,772
2000	71,047,087	174,437,204	178,841,831	255,461,211	881,068,351
2001	73,206,919	190,119,109	195,223,743	285,145,804	1,062,568,432
2002	75,432,409	207,210,817	213,106,238	318,279,747	1,281,457,529
2003	77,725,554	225,839,069	232,626,769	355,263,853	1,545,437,780
2004	80,088,411	246,142,002	253,935,381	396,545,513	1,863,797,962
2005	82,523,099	268,270,168	277,195,862	442,624,102	2,247,740,342
2006	85,031,801	292,387,656	302,587,003	494,057,022	2,710,774,853
2007	87,616,768	318,673,306	330,303,973	551,466,448	3,269,194,473
2008	90,280,317	347,322,036	360,559,817	615,546,849	3,942,648,534
2009	93,024,839	378,546,287	393,587,096	687,073,393	4,754,834,132
2010	95,852,794	412,577,599	429,639,674	766,911,322	5,734,329,963
2011	98,766,719	449,668,325	468,994,668	856,026,417	6,915,601,936
2012	101,769,227	490,093,507	511,954,580	955,496,687	8,340,215,935
2013	104,863,012	534,152,913	558,849,619	1,066,525,402	10,058,300,417
2014	108,050,847	582,173,260	610,040,244	1,190,455,654	12,130,310,303
2015	111,335,593	634,510,636	665,919,931	1,328,786,601	14,629,154,226
2016	114,720,195	691,553,142	726,918,196	1,483,191,604	17,642,759,996
2017	118,207,689	753,723,770	793,503,903	1,655,538,468	21,277,168,555
2018	121,801,203	821,483,537	866,188,861	1,847,912,038	25,660,265,277
2019	125,503,959	895,334,907	945,531,760	2,062,639,417	30,946,279,925
2020	129,319,280	975,825,515	1,032,142,470	2,302,318,117	37,321,213,589
2021	133,250,586	1,063,552,229	1,126,686,720	2,569,847,482	45,009,383,588
2022	137,301,404	1,159,165,574	1,229,891,224	2,868,463,760	54,281,316,608
2023	141,475,366	1,263,374,559	1,342,549,260	3,201,779,249	65,463,267,829
2024	145,776,217	1,376,951,932	1,465,526,772	3,573,825,997	78,948,701,002
2025	150,207,814	1,500,739,911	1,599,769,024	3,989,104,578	95,212,133,408

If Carl Pohlad had invested $44MM in Apple Computer, it'd be worth 63x more than the Twins right now. If he put it into an S&P500 (Stock Index) portfolio and reinvested the dividends, it'd be worth $4 billion.

The Pohlad family does not negotiate contracts on the Minnesota Twins or control the roster. The President of Baseball Operations, Derek Falvey, handles those duties. The Pohlads don't sweep the stadium floors or do the plumbing work or coach the team in the dugout, either. They're not getting their hands dirty over Christian Vazquez. They DID sign off on adding a long term $30MM / yr contract, exploding their budget way beyond expectations in 2022 and again in 2023.

You need to redo this. Carl paid $5M down in 1984. The terms of sale required an additional $5M per year over the next 4 years and then a ballon for the remainder of $7M. The Griffiths received $32M by 1989. That arrangement was after Carl had wanted to pay over 20 years and Calvin said, "I'll be dead." Carl paid $11.5 for the minority shares from Gabriel Murphy, which was financed. 

An investment of $5M in AAPL in November of 1984 still returns a crapload of money. Carl probably wishes he had done that instead.

[KnoblauchWasFramed]

2 hours ago, Mark G said:

I can't help but be a little apprehensive about out of town buyers swooping in and picking up the franchise.  What guarantee do we have that they will keep the team here?  Not saying it will happen in my lifetime, but it does give me pause.  I was hoping for some home town folks to come to the ball (pun intended).

I, for one, will stay tuned to this channel.

Again with this bad take.  They have a lease with Target Field for starters that runs at least 2039 so that's the first problem in moving the team.  The second problem is where, exactly, do people who make this statement think this new location would be?  Don't you think the Miami Marlins or Arizona D'Backs or Oakland A's would already be there?

It's amazing that people think that someone just buys a team and then moves it somewhere completely different the next year like this is "Major League" or something.  

[Craig Arko]

Quicker the better at this point. 

[Fire Dan Gladden]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

  

The valuation for the Twins by Forbes was 1.46 billion. The asking price from the Pohlad's was 1.7 billion.

Here's a lesson in economics and finances.

Year	Inflation	Twins	S&P 500	S&P 500	Apple Computer
	3.04%	8.99%	9.16%	11.62%	20.60%
			no divs	reinvest div
1984	44,000,000	44,000,000	44,000,000	44,000,000	44,000,000
1985	45,337,600	47,955,600	48,030,400	49,112,800	53,064,000
1986	46,715,863	52,266,808	52,429,985	54,819,707	63,995,184
1987	48,136,025	56,965,595	57,232,571	61,189,757	77,178,192
1988	49,599,360	62,086,801	62,475,075	68,300,007	93,076,899
1989	51,107,181	67,668,405	68,197,792	76,236,468	112,250,741
1990	52,660,839	73,751,795	74,444,709	85,095,146	135,374,393
1991	54,261,729	80,382,081	81,263,845	94,983,201	163,261,518
1992	55,911,285	87,608,430	88,707,613	106,020,250	196,893,391
1993	57,610,988	95,484,428	96,833,230	118,339,802	237,453,430
1994	59,362,363	104,068,478	105,703,154	132,090,888	286,368,836
1995	61,166,978	113,424,234	115,385,563	147,439,849	345,360,816
1996	63,026,454	123,621,073	125,954,881	164,572,359	416,505,145
1997	64,942,459	134,734,607	137,492,348	183,695,667	502,305,204
1998	66,916,709	146,847,248	150,086,647	205,041,104	605,780,077
1999	68,950,977	160,048,816	163,834,584	228,866,880	730,570,772
2000	71,047,087	174,437,204	178,841,831	255,461,211	881,068,351
2001	73,206,919	190,119,109	195,223,743	285,145,804	1,062,568,432
2002	75,432,409	207,210,817	213,106,238	318,279,747	1,281,457,529
2003	77,725,554	225,839,069	232,626,769	355,263,853	1,545,437,780
2004	80,088,411	246,142,002	253,935,381	396,545,513	1,863,797,962
2005	82,523,099	268,270,168	277,195,862	442,624,102	2,247,740,342
2006	85,031,801	292,387,656	302,587,003	494,057,022	2,710,774,853
2007	87,616,768	318,673,306	330,303,973	551,466,448	3,269,194,473
2008	90,280,317	347,322,036	360,559,817	615,546,849	3,942,648,534
2009	93,024,839	378,546,287	393,587,096	687,073,393	4,754,834,132
2010	95,852,794	412,577,599	429,639,674	766,911,322	5,734,329,963
2011	98,766,719	449,668,325	468,994,668	856,026,417	6,915,601,936
2012	101,769,227	490,093,507	511,954,580	955,496,687	8,340,215,935
2013	104,863,012	534,152,913	558,849,619	1,066,525,402	10,058,300,417
2014	108,050,847	582,173,260	610,040,244	1,190,455,654	12,130,310,303
2015	111,335,593	634,510,636	665,919,931	1,328,786,601	14,629,154,226
2016	114,720,195	691,553,142	726,918,196	1,483,191,604	17,642,759,996
2017	118,207,689	753,723,770	793,503,903	1,655,538,468	21,277,168,555
2018	121,801,203	821,483,537	866,188,861	1,847,912,038	25,660,265,277
2019	125,503,959	895,334,907	945,531,760	2,062,639,417	30,946,279,925
2020	129,319,280	975,825,515	1,032,142,470	2,302,318,117	37,321,213,589
2021	133,250,586	1,063,552,229	1,126,686,720	2,569,847,482	45,009,383,588
2022	137,301,404	1,159,165,574	1,229,891,224	2,868,463,760	54,281,316,608
2023	141,475,366	1,263,374,559	1,342,549,260	3,201,779,249	65,463,267,829
2024	145,776,217	1,376,951,932	1,465,526,772	3,573,825,997	78,948,701,002
2025	150,207,814	1,500,739,911	1,599,769,024	3,989,104,578	95,212,133,408

If Carl Pohlad had invested $44MM in Apple Computer, it'd be worth 63x more than the Twins right now. If he put it into an S&P500 (Stock Index) portfolio and reinvested the dividends, it'd be worth $4 billion.

The Pohlad family does not negotiate contracts on the Minnesota Twins or control the roster. The President of Baseball Operations, Derek Falvey, handles those duties. The Pohlads don't sweep the stadium floors or do the plumbing work or coach the team in the dugout, either. They're not getting their hands dirty over Christian Vazquez. They DID sign off on adding a long term $30MM / yr contract, exploding their budget way beyond expectations in 2022 and again in 2023.

This is not a dollar-by-dollar comparison.  Yearly income/loss, secondary income from MLB, owner revenue sharing, there are a lot of dollars unaccounted for here.  It is also very easy in hindsight to go back and cherry pick investments to bolster this argument. 

For the majority of baseball owners, the issue is status as much as money.  Regardless of anything you hear, owners make money (both short term and long term) on these teams.  The perception status of owning a team, bringing a championship and being loved by millions of people is real.

[Carneal&Gordon]

I, for one, am ready for the the Minnesota Twishbias era

[bean5302]

26 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

If they invested that $44M in a bunch of poor businesses they would have lost money. I never said the Pohlads do the negotiations, but don't you think they have a say in their own business?

The Pohlads don't sweep the stadium floors or do the plumbing work or coach the team in the dugout, either.

How absurd!

It is unusual for an MLB owner to actively involve themselves in roster decisions beyond approving major contracts or trades, and when owners do involve themselves more significantly like in choosing players, it's usually bad news. This is how big companies work. The Pohlads own the business and Jim served as the chairman of the board. Evaluating talent, and roster construction is not their area of expertise.

Choosing which players need to be traded or signed is the same thing as sweeping floors to the chairman of the board.

[ashbury]

If the Pohlads had had the foresight to hold off a year or two and invest in Enron instead of the Twins, imagine how things would have turned out for them!

[bean5302]

  

33 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

This is not a dollar-by-dollar comparison.  Yearly income/loss, secondary income from MLB, owner revenue sharing, there are a lot of dollars unaccounted for here.  It is also very easy in hindsight to go back and cherry pick investments to bolster this argument. 

For the majority of baseball owners, the issue is status as much as money.  Regardless of anything you hear, owners make money (both short term and long term) on these teams.  The perception status of owning a team, bringing a championship and being loved by millions of people is real.

The point is wealthy people do not ignore tens of millions of dollars, and the idea the Twins have been some sort of wildly successful investment with returns so high the Pohlads should be willing to completely ignore tens of millions of dollars is a tough sell. That's especially the case since it's likely the Pohlads are selling the Twins due to liquidity issues stemming from their huge investments in commercial realty. The Twins have been an okay investment, and the franchise has cumulatively lost significant money over the past 5 years according to Forbes/Statista thanks to operating losses of nearly $80MM in 2020 and 2022 combined. I will trust financial reporting companies like Forbes over your personal opinion. 

I agree that ownership of a pro sports franchise is about prestige. Not sure how that relates to the discussion other than furthering my point about the lackluster returns.

[jmlease1]

51 minutes ago, KnoblauchWasFramed said:

Again with this bad take.  They have a lease with Target Field for starters that runs at least 2039 so that's the first problem in moving the team.  The second problem is where, exactly, do people who make this statement think this new location would be?  Don't you think the Miami Marlins or Arizona D'Backs or Oakland A's would already be there?

It's amazing that people think that someone just buys a team and then moves it somewhere completely different the next year like this is "Major League" or something.  

I can understand the fear. While I agree that it's highly unlikely to happen, for various reasons (the fact that we have a great stadium, there's a long term lease in place, the size of the Twin Cities market and potential reach into Iowa, Nebraska, and the Dakotas, the sizeable corporate base here, limited attractive alternatives, etc) anyone that lived through the contraction debacle is going to have a concern.

Nashville, Charlotte, or Portland aren't unreasonable alternatives and have floated out there before. But it's still very unlikely. John Fisher had to really run things into the ground in Oakland in order to force his way out, and it took a long time of absolute trash product in an almost impossibly bad stadium with the Giants across the Bay to get him to Vegas.

the fear is overblown IMHO, but I understand the reaction.

[nicksaviking]

Thinking about this more, if we truly should expect new owners by opening day (I'm still skeptical), cutting back on payroll can't be a good sign. Why would the Pohlad's care if they're done writing checks come March? If payroll is being cut, wouldn't it be to appease the new owners?

To be clear, moving Vazquez or Paddack could be done for goals OTHER than trimming payroll, but if they are moved, we probably need to wait before we start hailing our new masters.

[tony&rodney]

2 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Thinking about this more, if we truly should expect new owners by opening day (I'm still skeptical), cutting back on payroll can't be a good sign. Why would the Pohlad's care if they're done writing checks come March? If payroll is being cut, wouldn't it be to appease the new owners?

To be clear, moving Vazquez or Paddack could be done for goals OTHER than trimming payroll, but if they are moved, we probably need to wait before we start hailing our new masters.

I would be quite surprised if there were any cuts. I think there may be a small add (@$6M). There may be trades aimed at improving the team. The Twins are at $134M including Dobnak.

[chpettit19]

6 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

I can understand the fear. While I agree that it's highly unlikely to happen, for various reasons (the fact that we have a great stadium, there's a long term lease in place, the size of the Twin Cities market and potential reach into Iowa, Nebraska, and the Dakotas, the sizeable corporate base here, limited attractive alternatives, etc) anyone that lived through the contraction debacle is going to have a concern.

Nashville, Charlotte, or Portland aren't unreasonable alternatives and have floated out there before. But it's still very unlikely. John Fisher had to really run things into the ground in Oakland in order to force his way out, and it took a long time of absolute trash product in an almost impossibly bad stadium with the Giants across the Bay to get him to Vegas.

the fear is overblown IMHO, but I understand the reaction.

2 cities are going to get teams, they just aren't getting relocated teams. MLB has been very open about expansion. That's their plan. And they've been very vocal that they're doing it after Oakland and Tampa settle their stadium situations. Those situations looked settled, but now Tampa is a little up in the air. The owners don't want teams moving, they want billions of outside money poured into the league in the form of expansion fees. 

The only reasonable fear is probably if the league will be ready to expand again in 15+ years or if the owners will want to move the Twins sometime in the 2040s.

[tony&rodney]

19 minutes ago, ashbury said:

If the Pohlads had had the foresight to hold off a year or two and invest in Enron instead of the Twins, imagine how things would have turned out for them!

That is actually a fun story in a way. Some people bought Enron early and continually sold half each time it doubled. The gains were very impressive (1-2-4-8-16-32-64) and the losses when Enron went bankrupt were still unwanted but almost laughable in the face of the previous gains. It was also, somewhat a lesson in greed. Yes, I do know people who did exactly that.