Has Edouard Julien Played His Way Out of the Twins' Future Plans?

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Imagine thinking after what he did last year, that Julien should be traded.......no team would do that. How could this team even afford to field a team if they traded every player that was good as a rookie?

While I agree in general, Julien felt like a good option to trade if you could spin him into a legitimate arm instead of DeSclafani. A risk for sure, but that was my hope for what they'd do.

[Linus]

2 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

While I agree in general, Julien felt like a good option to trade if you could spin him into a legitimate arm instead of DeSclafani. A risk for sure, but that was my hope for what they'd do.

Me too and I posted this very thing before Polanco was traded. Julien plus a prospect would have brought in the starter we needed badly. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Linus said:

Me too and I posted this very thing before Polanco was traded. Julien plus a prospect would have brought in the starter we needed badly. 

And how do you fit that in the budget? I mean, I hope to win the lottery tonight, but this team isn't dealing 2nd year players that look like legit players. No shape, manner, or universe is that happening. They couldn't afford to field a team if they kept doing that. 

Also, then Polanco would have utterly stunk up MN instead of SEA (and as a veteran, would have led the team in ABs ).

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Are we thinking the coaches told him not to swing at 3rd strikes in the zone?

I'm thinking whatever he was told, he's inside his own head and could use a different voice.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

I'm thinking whatever he was told, he's inside his own head and could use a different voice.

Most likely true!

[USAFChief]

8 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Also, then Polanco would have utterly stunk up MN instead of SEA (and as a veteran, would have led the team in ABs ).

Polanco has stunk. Pretty badly. 654 OPS.

 

The Twins have gotten a 644 OPS from 2nd base this year. 

[Linus]

4 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

And how do you fit that in the budget? I mean, I hope to win the lottery tonight, but this team isn't dealing 2nd year players that look like legit players. No shape, manner, or universe is that happening. They couldn't afford to field a team if they kept doing that. 

Also, then Polanco would have utterly stunk up MN instead of SEA (and as a veteran, would have led the team in ABs ).

Well I didn’t cut the budget and Polo wouldn’t have been as bad as Julien and we would have had a legit starter instead of what we got for Polo. Everyone was in love with Julien - I saw a limited player that someone might overpay for. Turns out I was right (so far). 

[Mike Sixel]

9 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Polanco has stunk. Pretty badly. 654 OPS.

 

The Twins have gotten a 644 OPS from 2nd base this year. 

I never said the Twins didn't stink! 

NO chance, zero, that this team (or Tampa, or anyone that doesn't have a huge budget) trades a 2nd year player like Julien. Zero. 

[chpettit19]

14 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

And how do you fit that in the budget? I mean, I hope to win the lottery tonight, but this team isn't dealing 2nd year players that look like legit players. No shape, manner, or universe is that happening. They couldn't afford to field a team if they kept doing that. 

Also, then Polanco would have utterly stunk up MN instead of SEA (and as a veteran, would have led the team in ABs ).

Instead of having Julien stink up MN and have no starting pitcher in return? Polanco is at a 93 OPS+. By no means great, but I'd take that every day of the week over Julien's 79.

Julien and another piece could've brought back young, controllable starting pitching that wouldn't have cost any more than Julien does. That was the move I wanted, at least. If he was as valuable as last year theoretically made him you could have made a big swing on getting a legit controllable pitcher. Theoretically. We'll never know. But it's a reasonable enough thought process that Julien and 5 years of control with another piece could've brought back a real pre-arb arm. Or you could've saved some money by not bringing back Farmer or bringing in Margot.

[USAFChief]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

I never said the Twins didn't stink! 

NO chance, zero, that this team (or Tampa, or anyone that doesn't have a huge budget) trades a 2nd year player like Julien. Zero. 

I mostly agree.

And I've never said they shouldn't have dealt Polanco.

What I have said from the day the trade was announced was, "terrible trade. Made the Twins worse."

And it did.

[Riverbrian]

13 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Instead of having Julien stink up MN and have no starting pitcher in return? Polanco is at a 93 OPS+. By no means great, but I'd take that every day of the week over Julien's 79.

Julien and another piece could've brought back young, controllable starting pitching that wouldn't have cost any more than Julien does. That was the move I wanted, at least. If he was as valuable as last year theoretically made him you could have made a big swing on getting a legit controllable pitcher. Theoretically. We'll never know. But it's a reasonable enough thought process that Julien and 5 years of control with another piece could've brought back a real pre-arb arm. Or you could've saved some money by not bringing back Farmer or bringing in Margot.

Baseball Trade Values had Julien ranked pretty high in the off-season for whatever that is worth.

47 or something like that. 

So... Who knows Julien by himself may have fetched a pretty decent return. 

I was a huge fan of Julien last year and I would have been sad to see him go... But in terms of trade value... He was near the top of the pile. That is probably no longer the case. He's got some repair work to do. 

Ultimately... You know how I felt at the time. I would have kept Polanco and Julien.  

  

[Road trip]

20 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I never said the Twins didn't stink! 

NO chance, zero, that this team (or Tampa, or anyone that doesn't have a huge budget) trades a 2nd year player like Julien. Zero. 

So, I was on board with trading Polanco, but trading Julien last year wasn't a zero chance event.  Young players can be traded, and occasionally successfully.  If payroll is a problem you just have to trade young player for young player, dealing from excess on each side.

Not that long ago the Twins traded Grateral when he was very young.  A little further back Wilson Ramos.  And further back they traded Matt Garza for Delmon Young which was a true young player for young player trade, with Tampa, no less. 

Ouch, I didn't want to remember any of that...

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Road trip said:

So, I was on board with trading Polanco, but trading Julien isn't a zero chance event.  Young players can be traded, and occasionally successfully.  If payroll is a problem you just have to trade young player for young player, dealing from excess on each side.

Not that long ago the Twins traded Grateral when he was very young.  A little further back Wilson Ramos.  And further back they traded Matt Garza for Delmon Young which was a true young player for young player trade, with Tampa, no less. 

Ouch, I didn't want to remember any of that...

None of those guys had just come off an impressive rookie year......and none of those happened recently at all. Gaterol is a RP, not a 2b (if Julien is a 2b). 

I've made my point. People disagree and think the Twins would deal a starting 2B who just came off a great rookie year. I can't see it happening at all. 

What team is trading a young, affordable, starting pitcher? Those don't grow on trees.....

[DJL44]

4 hours ago, roger said:

As for the mention about first base above, I sincerely hope one of the Twins few moves this winter is to re-sign Santana.  Guy hits ok and has been spectacular at first base

Santana hasn't really done much since June. .218/.316/.396 since the All-Star break. .661 OPS vs RHP.

[darin617]

You could have made this post pretty much anytime this year. Probably in June or July would have made sense as well as now.

If Julien wants to continue his MLB career he should be trying to play 1st base.

[Fezig]

I've watched a handful of games over the past couple of years. The playoffs are included. After watching Julien in those playoff games I pretty much figured he'd up where he's at now due to his "all or nothing" two strike approach to hitting. He'll never be Arraez, but learning to put the ball in play would go a long way as he's obviously got enough power to find the gaps. 

[TwinsDr2021]

14 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

And how do you fit that in the budget? I mean, I hope to win the lottery tonight, but this team isn't dealing 2nd year players that look like legit players. No shape, manner, or universe is that happening. They couldn't afford to field a team if they kept doing that. 

Also, then Polanco would have utterly stunk up MN instead of SEA (and as a veteran, would have led the team in ABs ).

Seems pretty simple, don't but pick up Polanco's or Farmers salary (what is that 17 million?) give Lee the job to start the season. Now it might not have worked out well since Lee was hurt. But this isn't rocket science either.

[Trov]

Julien will stay in organization, unless a team comes along with a good offer.  He will play in AAA next year until there are injuries.  Then he will need to run with it or will be a future DFA guy.  Crazy how a year ago all the talk was he was the future at second base for the Twins years to come, now we are talking about if he will be on the roster next year. 

One it shows why you can never have too many prospects in the wings because you never know if a player is for real, even when they have a good rookie year. What stuck out to me on him early in the year was he clearly had no clue how teams were going to pitch him.  He was taking way too many pitches in the zone and started swinging at way too many out of the zone.  It did not help early on he was striking out watching pitches just out of a zone, but he looked so lost early in season, and has not found it. 

[D.C Twins]

Apparently not enough to prevent him from being slotted in as batting leadoff last night 🙃🙄

[Major League Ready]

19 hours ago, mickster said:

An example of not trading prospects when you can - they are what they are, prospects and getting proven talent is a key way to use them

 

Take any 90 win team in the bottom half of revenue for the last 20 years.  Then look at the top players by WAR and how they were acquired.  You will find that the players acquired as prospects have produced 5X that of players that were acquired once proven and I am using a very loose definition of proven.  You have it absolutely backwards. Trading prospects for a proven player to fill a key need is a great strategy but the successful teams in the bottom half of revenue have primarily been built on drafting and acquisition of unproven players.

[LambchoP]

I think next year is Julien's last chance. One more year to prove he's figured it out. We have too many younger options. Brooks Lee is my guess for who takes over second base next year. We also have Keaschal that should be knocking on the door as well as Eeles. Tons of depth for second and third base. Lee should be the backup SS. I'm more worried about first base. We're not going to spend on a power hitting guy, Santana might be the best we can hope for. He might regress a bit from leading the team in HR and RBIs, but his defense is invaluable. Plus, I don't trust Miranda there until he can put together some consistency. 

[RpR]

2 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Seems pretty simple, don't but pick up Polanco's or Farmers salary (what is that 17 million?) give Lee the job to start the season. Now it might not have worked out well since Lee was hurt. But this isn't rocket science either.

LOL, Lee is no better than Julien; both will start next year in AAA if they are with the Twins.

[David Maro]

We are talking about the Twins here,with Kepler gone all but CF and SS are open positions.With Correa and Buxton more likely to be on IL a good part of the season those positions will be open as well.Both Julien and Lee need to play winter ball and work on their game.This season got away from the team because of far too many wasted at bats.At this point they are unwatchable and time for changes across the board.On Sunday night the hitting coach gone and all of his plan thrown in the trash.That includes the homerun or bust idea.All of the rookies come up with good approach but then fall into the homerun or nothing.Julien,Lee and Martin should be working to become ducks on the pond not swinging for the fences.Again it's called baseball not homerun.

[RpR]

6 minutes ago, LambchoP said:

I think next year is Julien's last chance. One more year to prove he's figured it out. We have too many younger options. Brooks Lee is my guess for who takes over second base next year. We also have Keaschal that should be knocking on the door as well as Eeles. Tons of depth for second and third base. Lee should be the backup SS. I'm more worried about first base. We're not going to spend on a power hitting guy, Santana might be the best we can hope for. He might regress a bit from leading the team in HR and RBIs, but his defense is invaluable. Plus, I don't trust Miranda there until he can put together some consistency. 

Lee is bad at 2nd and Short Stop; if Farmer is gone next year, they will probably pick-up another veteran whose glove does not have holes in it.

I would split my bet on Farmer being gone.

All the brouhaha on here about Twins payroll amounts to a Three Card Monty .

[TwinsDr2021]

27 minutes ago, RpR said:

LOL, Lee is no better than Julien; both will start next year in AAA if they are with the Twins.

than we should be complaining they drafted him 8th overall. He will be 24 before next season starts, I think it has been proven by their prospects they don't get better defensively at this age.

[Linus]

5 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

than we should be complaining they drafted him 8th overall. He will be 24 before next season starts, I think it has been proven by their prospects they don't get better defensively at this age.

If they give him a set position to play I think he will be a plus defender (not including SS). The real question is whether he will hit or not. Which is interesting since he was supposed to be a polished bat first guy when drafted. 

[bean5302]

Polanco was always going to either be traded or option declined because of his salary and the Twins payroll. It would have been the height of incompetence for Polanco to remain on the Twins. Unbelievable, even. Farmer was expected to be traded or option declined (even Farmer was surprised he was with the Twins this year). It's only Falvey's incompetence on display that Farmer remained in a Twins uniform at $6MM.

After those two guys were gone (as per any reasonable offseason plan), it was what? Edouard Julien, Willi Castro, Nick Gordon, and Austin Martin (AAA) as 2B depth, and the Twins prefer to deploy Castro as a utility guy. Brooks Lee was coming off a poor AAA showing last year.

Julien was definitely slated to be the planned primary 2B so he wasn't ever going to be a planned trade considering the Twins had no legit backup for Buxton, and they like using Castro as super utility. What actually happened (Farmer sticking around) makes it possible to consider a scenario where Julien gets traded for pitching this past offseason, but it wasn't reasonable to expect.

[stringer bell]

Those of you looking back can say you were right to trade Julien, but what does that prove and what does that say about Julien's future? I guess I get sick of "I told you so" IRL and more so on the interwebs.

It doesn't make sense to let a guy go for minimum value after he demonstrated well above average to elite numbers in 2023. This is true for Julien and it is true for Kirilloff. It was true for Larnach and Miranda going into this year. 

All indications are that the club will keep payroll down next year and most of their savings from expiring free-agent contracts will be eaten up by pay raises to existing players. Having Julien, Kirilloff and Lee all starting in St. Paul next year to fill in when injuries occur or when players struggle. It likely will be the last shot for Edouard with the Twins.

 

[harmony55]

On 9/25/2024 at 2:13 PM, chpettit19 said:

While I agree in general, Julien felt like a good option to trade if you could spin him into a legitimate arm instead of DeSclafani. A risk for sure, but that was my hope for what they'd do.

Would anyone trade Eduoard Julien to Seattle for his one-time SEC rival, righthander Emerson Hancock, who is a month younger than Julien?

https://georgiadogs.com/sports/baseball/stats/2019/auburn/boxscore/16885

Each has lost luster after spending much of 2024 in the minors.

[beckmt]

Doubt the Twins add a starter next year.  They have 3 plus several at AA and AAA who could be here and are considered better than the current ones, Raya comes to mind.  Maybe they need to bundle 2 - 3 of these prospect (possibly including Julien) and talking to a club like Pittsburg or Tampa Bay for a better player who cost has gotten too large.