Should the Twins Bring Back Carlos Santana in 2025?

[NotAboutWinning]

1 hour ago, BH67 said:

I don't see how the Pohlads keep Rocco if the Twins miss the playoffs.

I don't believe the Pohlads measure success in terms of playoffs or championships 😕

[Jocko87]

Just off the top of my head roster construction, his spot will probably need to be filled by someone that can functionally hold a glove in left field.  Julien and Miranda platoon with some flexibility. 

If the new guy can play both left field and 1st base and switch hit, then watch out. Right up Twins baseball alley.

They will also have enough option and defensive flexibility with Helman, Castro and Kiersey it may work to get a DH only.  I'd hate to lockup the spot so I'd be looking for a Thome level guy and I don't know who that is.

[Greglw3]

6 hours ago, DJL44 said:

He's also going to be 39. Odds are more likely than not that Carlos Santana won't be as good next season. It's likely that Santana will be less dynamic, clutch and worse at fielding.

Apparently you weren’t paying attention when Nelson Cruz was hitting OPS of 1.031, .992, .907 in his age 38-40 years?

Santana is also in excellent shape.

Dave Winfield and Paul Molitor were both tearing it up at age 40.

[IndianaTwin]

6 hours ago, howeda7 said:

Given the payroll restraints, no. He will cost $8-10 million and likely decline in performance. His defense has been even better than expected though.

Why would he cost $8-10 million? He’s only getting $5.25 million this year and he’s only been a little better this year than he was last year. I’ll be surprised if he gets more than $6 million given that he’s also a year older.

[IndianaTwin]

I could go either way. We’re seeing that defense at 1B does matter (particularly when the only other above-average infielder is Correa), so I’m not enamored with a season of Miranda and Julien there.

People are suggesting they spend any money on a starter, but given the budget realities we’re expecting, it’s hard to see them spending enough to get a stud.

I don’t see him as a priority, but I’d rather than spend $4-6 million on Santana than $4-6 million on a “depth” starting pitcher. Given the unpredictability of relievers and the few innings they pitch, I think I’d even rather spend $4-6 million on him than on a relief pitcher. 

[IndianaTwin]

5 hours ago, NYCTK said:

I don't know if that's even possible. They would need to trade Pablo or Correa. Trading Correa seems pretty difficult, so...that would require trading away Pablo Lopez. 

Correa has a no-trade clause, which typically requires an agreement on an extension for the player, and that’s not going to happen anywhere. I can’t see a situation where they trade Lopez. 

So finding a partner for Vazquez, Castro or Jeffers or some combination thereof would be the next options. I agree — I don’t see how it can realistically happen. 

[IndianaTwin]

But separately from the question of whether he comes back, each time I look at his career stats, I’m reminded that he’s going to end up with some pretty decent numbers. Nowhere close to HOF worthy, but he’s got 323 homers, 392 doubles, 1076 RBIs and 1270 walks. He’s the active leader in walks by more than 150 and is ahead of third place by more than 200. With any luck at all, he’ll blow past 400 doubles, 1100 RBIs and 1300 walks, and he still has a shot at 350 homers. 

[dxpavelka]

Stop with the Kirilloff nonsense

[William K Johnson]

Why not look at Jake Berger with the Marlins.    Inexpensive, decent glove, right-handed power.    Throw Julien, Martin and Alcala at them to see it they will bite.

[Riverbrian]

Any considerations for next years roster will have to be run through the platoon filter first.

I'm not joking. 

If Wallner, Larnach, Kirilloff and Julien are on the roster next year. They will require at least 3 players on the roster to platoon with them. There is no indication that the Twins will back off this strategy. You have to account for how they treat left handed hitters when building a roster for 2025. 

Who is going to hit from the other side of the plate for the left handers.

Santana fits that role. Margot and Farmer will also have to be replaced by the 2025 version of Margot and Farmer. 

Should they platoon to the degree that they platoon.. no they shouldn't and therefore they shouldn't need to sign Santana. 

But they do... So therefore... Santana should be signed. Because he would fit that role. 

 

 

[Road trip]

11 hours ago, Greglw3 said:

Apparently you weren’t paying attention when Nelson Cruz was hitting OPS of 1.031, .992, .907 in his age 38-40 years?

Santana is also in excellent shape.

Dave Winfield and Paul Molitor were both tearing it up at age 40.

Certainly, the outcome you suggest is possible.  But is it probable?  At some point Father Time always wins, even if nobody knows exactly when that time will come.  This year, looking around the league, the only hitter I see who was older than Santana and who was productive was Josh Turner.  Santana's generation is largely gone.

Given the very limited payroll the Twins have I think Branch Rickey's famous quote must be their guiding principle: "Better to get rid of a player a year too early, than a year too late".

 

[DJL44]

11 hours ago, Greglw3 said:

Apparently you weren’t paying attention when Nelson Cruz was hitting OPS of 1.031, .992, .907 in his age 38-40 years?

Apparently you didn't notice that meant he was getting worse every season. Santana is starting from an OPS of .760 this season. Drop 50 points off that and he's not worth starting. Drop 100 points off that and he should probably be cut from the roster.

The Twins have received Santana's best season in 5 years. Do you think they can do that twice in a row? It's a lot more likely he gives them a season like he had in 2021.

[DJL44]

12 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

Just off the top of my head roster construction, his spot will probably need to be filled by someone that can functionally hold a glove in left field.  Julien and Miranda platoon with some flexibility. 

If the new guy can play both left field and 1st base and switch hit, then watch out. Right up Twins baseball alley.

They will also have enough option and defensive flexibility with Helman, Castro and Kiersey it may work to get a DH only.  I'd hate to lockup the spot so I'd be looking for a Thome level guy and I don't know who that is.

Santander. That guy is Anthony Santander.

[Otaknam]

See what Santana wants for salary on a one year contract, and decide if they agree. Otherwise use the other options mentioned. They do have lots of infield options. I am especially curious about the 5’4”, 185 pound infielder Payton Eeles, who has had an excellent season from A+ to AAA, after signing from an independent league. If he can play solid defense he could be a real find, AND a great story! 

[Lartwinfan]

No brainer

twins mvp

consummate pro

D is awesome

price is right 

[Riverbrian]

12 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

Julien and Miranda platoon with some flexibility

I've thought about this. But... I gotta say.

I really really really hate the idea of Miranda on the short side from a development standpoint. And I hate the idea a little bit more when you look at Miranda's current splits in 2024. 

Santana's splits actually fit Julien or Kirilloff at 1B. 

Of course... We should know how that plays out. Santana will face more right handers and lead the team in AB's again. 

Anyway you slice it... The construction of next years roster will be dependent upon finding another Margot, Farmer and Santana.

13 roster spots

2 Catchers

3 Left Handed Hitters

3 Right Handed hitters to keep the left handed hitters out of the box against lefties. 

5 players who play as many days as they can against both hands.

These are the limitations set forth by the current model.  

2 Catchers

Jeffers and Vazquez. 

3 Left Handed hitters

Wallner, Larnach, Julien (Possibly Kirilloff instead of Julien)

3 right handed hitters who keep the left handers away from left handers

Santana

??? (Miranda, Martin, Farmer type free agent)

??? (Miranda, Martin, Farmer type free agent)

The 5 who play as often as they can. 

Correa

Buxton

Lewis 

Lee

Castro? 

Then keep in mind that 3 of the 5 who play as often as they can... Correa, Buxton and Lewis have been unavailable for abnormally long stretches and there is no reason to think that is going to go away in 2025 or 2026.  You can even start worrying about Lee's time on the IL as well because he has spent some time on the IL.

4 out of 5 big guys with health issues will cause you to look at the other 6 in platoon roles to fill in and no longer in platoon roles.  

All I can see is... Santana coming back and leading the team AB's in 2025. 

[stringer bell]

I like Lee or Lewis at second base and if Julien can find his hitting mojo, he could figure in at first base. Miranda has to be a consideration, especially with his good splits against right handed pitching. It also will be AK's last chance to establish himself.

Santana is the epitome of a low ceiling, high floor guy with exceptional durability and he's a switch hitter, although his splits against right handers don't merit a starting role. The defense has been very good, but he''ll be 39 next April. The Twins should do better than a 39-year old Carlos Santana. 

[RpR]

37 minutes ago, Road trip said:

Given the very limited payroll the Twins have I think Branch Rickey's famous quote must be their guiding principle: "Better to get rid of a player a year too early, than a year too late".

 

i would say that applies to Julien, Lee and Martin more than Santana.

Next season is still a long ways off, and whether or not Baldelli is still here is the decider on Santana.

If Santana is not, there will be some other vet/s picked up as the rookies tain't what so many wishful thinkings wanted.

[LambchoP]

I would love another year of Santana with his professional at bats and gold glove caliber defense. As everyone already said though, we probably won't spend any money at all sadly. My guess is we go with Miranda and maybe Julien at 1st. Maybe give Severino a shot of Julien struggles again. One thing in this article I found really pathetic is Santana is one of only two players on our entire team that have enough at bats to qualify for leaderboards. Only two players, that is really sad....

[RpR]

15 minutes ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

Similar to Gray and Maeda, one cannot expect another season like this one from Santana.  Kudos to him for his year, but at that age we cannot expect a repeat.

.

That pretty has applied to darn near every player on the Twins  team.

[KBJ1]

As a proven veteran, excellent fielder, switch hitter and valuable clubhouse mentor, what's not to like about Carlos Santana?

The Twins will not spend big money on a SP, that we know. There will be another round of bullpen reclamation projects next off season. Which would have been fine this season if ANY of them.had stayed healthy.

Keeping Santana around to split time with whoever at 1B & DH should be a no brainer at $6-8M.

He is frankly better than any of the other impending free agents and affordable . I, for one, was really hoping for Kiriloff to have a breakout year and take over 1B.

Didn't happen. Everyone talks about moving Julien to 1B only because he sucks at fielding everywhere else. He is not a prototypical 1B, end of story.

Miranda may be our best option, but needs a lot of work at 1B to just to get to zero level defense.  Other than the Air Force 1B they drafted late this year,  we have no one of note in the system to promote. I don't see any Hrbeks on the horizon.

Keep Santana until we find / develope someone. (He may have to play til age 45)😀

 

[David Maro]

This FO only wants players who can play multiple positions.Because of this he will not be offered a contract and you can put Kepler in the same situation.Next year you will see the same thing happening at SS because C4 can't stay on the field.Every position is going to have a 2nd and a 3rd option because of injuries and a manager who changes lineups at the drop of a hat.

[ashbury]

My snap reaction to the headline was "no."  But the choices aren't plentiful, and as a "Plan B" going into this season he's turned out better than he could have; Chief's blackjack analogy strikes me as about right. 

Santana's a secondary decision, after the braintrust huddles in the early off-season to determine what they honestly think of the young(er) core they have, plus the guaranteed contracts on the roster.  A lot hinges on what they think of Julien and how much they are willing to gamble that he'll be okay.

It's too soon to make a determination of "should".  For now I'll go with "might."

[Greglw3]

22 hours ago, bean5302 said:

No.

He'll be 39 and is having his best season in 5 years. He'll probably end the year with a wRC+ around 115 this year which was far beyond all reasonable projections. Expecting a WAR of 0-1 next year would be reasonable. From a performance standpoint, I'd certainly bet on Jose Miranda will be the better player at 1B.

Beyond that, the Twins are expected to be in a straight up payroll crisis this offseason, and I think Santana will likely secure another $5-8MM single year contract. There's no money for the current roster, let alone Santana.

 

How can Miranda be the better player at 1B when there’s a chasm the size of the Grand Canyon in their defensive abilities? He hit 26 homers in 2023.

[Greglw3]

1 hour ago, RpR said:

That pretty has applied to darn near every player on the Twins  team.

I don’t think guy that has played at Santana’s level at 38 is any certainty to drop off by Feb./Mar. next year or during the season.

[Greglw3]

1 hour ago, David Maro said:

This FO only wants players who can play multiple positions.Because of this he will not be offered a contract and you can put Kepler in the same situation.Next year you will see the same thing happening at SS because C4 can't stay on the field.Every position is going to have a 2nd and a 3rd option because of injuries and a manager who changes lineups at the drop of a hat.

They needed to and could have taken that 2nd and 3rd options at every position for the last few years but refuse to do it, waiting for the bottom of the bargain bin while the KC’s, Dodgers, Astros, Braves of the world aggressively grab up all the good places. Thus Margot, Jake Cave, Rob Refsnyder, Farmer this year.

What happened to the 2018-2019 Twins FO.

[Jocko87]

3 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Santander. That guy is Anthony Santander.

What's the Dollar Tree version of this?

I wonder how he would look given an offseason to learn 1st base, small 12 game tester with the O's last year so it's been discussed.  I can't see them taking on $80-100m for a hitter but if they did that hitter would need this kind of versatility to give it a chance to work.  A switch hitting masher that can play the corner OF and 1st base at a decent level would be a fantastic fit for this roster.

[Jocko87]

OK, I went and watched all the first base plays for Santander in the film vault.  He can play there, especially with an off season of work. 

Color me intrigued.

[karcherd]

3 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I've thought about this. But... I gotta say.

I really really really hate the idea of Miranda on the short side from a development standpoint. And I hate the idea a little bit more when you look at Miranda's current splits in 2024. 

Santana's splits actually fit Julien or Kirilloff at 1B. 

Of course... We should know how that plays out. Santana will face more right handers and lead the team in AB's again. 

Anyway you slice it... The construction of next years roster will be dependent upon finding another Margot, Farmer and Santana.

13 roster spots

2 Catchers

3 Left Handed Hitters

3 Right Handed hitters to keep the left handed hitters out of the box against lefties. 

5 players who play as many days as they can against both hands.

These are the limitations set forth by the current model.  

2 Catchers

Jeffers and Vazquez. 

3 Left Handed hitters

Wallner, Larnach, Julien (Possibly Kirilloff instead of Julien)

3 right handed hitters who keep the left handers away from left handers

Santana

??? (Miranda, Martin, Farmer type free agent)

??? (Miranda, Martin, Farmer type free agent)

The 5 who play as often as they can. 

Correa

Buxton

Lewis 

Lee

Castro? 

Then keep in mind that 3 of the 5 who play as often as they can... Correa, Buxton and Lewis have been unavailable for abnormally long stretches and there is no reason to think that is going to go away in 2025 or 2026.  You can even start worrying about Lee's time on the IL as well because he has spent some time on the IL.

4 out of 5 big guys with health issues will cause you to look at the other 6 in platoon roles to fill in and no longer in platoon roles.  

All I can see is... Santana coming back and leading the team AB's in 2025. 

Castro has shown he is not an everyday player.  He needs to play 3 or 4 days a week.  If a player goes down, they need to bring up a replacement that plays that position, not just throw a body in the position because they can stand there.  Castro's best position is probably LF, he can cover other positions on a short term basis but shouldn't be asked like he was this year to cover those other positions long term.  Having Castro lead the team in AB's is not a formula for winning.

[jorgenswest]

20 hours ago, USAFChief said:

No.

They hit on 17 and caught a 3.

Let's not hit on 18 next year.

They hit on 17 with Santana, DeSclafani, Margot, Farmer, Thielbar, Topa, Okert, Richards, Jackson and caught one 3.