Royals 2, Twins 0: What in the Name of Oklahoma Joe is Going On Here?

[Parfigliano]

15 minutes ago, JADBP said:

This is Rocco's doing.  PERIOD.

I'm far from a Rocco fan.  I wanted him gone last year. There is plenty of blame to spread around beyond Rocco's decisions and style.

Rocco has had help from the FO doing nothing in the offseason and at the trade deadline.  Absolutely nothing.

More help has come from the players as a whole forgetting how to hit, catch, pitch, throw to a base, cover the right base defensively...its been an organizational implosion since mid August.

[1985Fan]

I’m sure the FO and Rocco are already writing the “woe is us, we just had too many injuries to overcome” response to why the Twins missed playoffs or get bounced right away. 
All teams have injuries this time of year. No team or player is 100%, but good teams find a way to win. Twins against the good teams have a terrible record for a reason. They’re not a good team. 

[Old Crow]

2 hours ago, hitterscount said:

They rely on the home run to generate runs, with the issue being they don’t have one major home run threat. This is what an offense looks like when your offensive philosophy sucks.

As far as Rocco lighting a fire in the players, I suspect there isn’t much respect there… just might explain these lifeless performances.

But their launch angles look good.

[Doctor Gast]

The team is running on fumes because there's no fire especially in the line-up. Sims was good until he ran out of gas. The BP was steady today & Vazquez went 3 for 3 but nobody could hit him in. Maybe now Castro with some rest can settle in & produce some runs against LAA & CIN to get us started. Then wait for a miracle because there seems to be no hope & rescue may be too late with Varland & Keirsey to settle in.

[RpR]

I am still not big Wallner fan but his OPS, for those who live by those numbers, is now 100 points higher than Lewis.

Wallner and Miranda are the only two that could bring prime trade material but if they lose them they will be fighting what ever team to stay out of last place  as I do not think their Minor league rookies are what they once were.

They hit the big time with imported vets and a few true top line rookies in 2019, it has been a downhill slide ever since concerning the future.

[David HK]

3 hours ago, USAFChief said:

😂😅😂 Beat me to it!  That was the top of my playlist today!

Or bottom...  🤔

 

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

For a player's manager, Rocco has no issues throwing his team under the bus. 

[Danchat]

2 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

To be fair, the players have been pretty terrible too 

Yeah, this seems to go under the radar with all the attention Rocco gets. This so called “best bullpen in baseball” turned out to be questionable, not to mention a washed up Thielbar is their best lefty. Margot and Farmer were two of the bigger re-signings / acquisitions on the season, alongside basically every vet reliever they added. Add in the injuries and the depth hasn’t held up.

A fire and brimstone manager might be able to rally this team to a degree but there are too many shortcomings to do anything with this roster the way it’s constructed.

[tony&rodney]

We watch the games, we want the Twins to win, we suffer their losses, and we have thoughts on why.

Me too .... but I am sure I don't really know what is going on.

Just a couple of thoughts: 1) Do faces from the front office (Falvey & Sons) meet with Baldelli on a regular basis? How often? How much of the plan is discussed, agreed on, and then fairly well scripted? These questions are important because this is precisely why Molitor was removed and many teams in MLB today have expected scenarios all played out before the games. Of course, the manager should be expected to have ideas of what gets done when and with which players. However, we seem to see a blind allegiance to maths as if it is absolute, which it is not. The vast preponderance of slavish and sometimes useful data and the many who follow the numbers more than the games is an example too.  Thus Ober gets lifted despite the game situation which tells us that Kansas City doesn't have but a sliver of a chance to get a baserunner much less score a run. Is this the brains making a decision. The comment boards scream at Baldelli and it should be his call. Is It though? I'm not sure about an answer to my questions.

Next - 2) The Twins have a pile of very inexperienced, quite raw players but a paucity of hard edged veterans. Santana is out, Farmer is cooked and physically struggles to an absurd degree despite his vast array of knowledge, expertise, and experience, Correa is out and absent, Buxton - same, Kepler is out, and  Margot is out. Meanwhile all of Jeffers, Miranda, Julien, Lee, Lewis, Castro, Larnach, Wallner, Martin, Helman, and Keirsey Jr.  are either rookies or have not established themselves as reliable full season MLB players. The MLB season is a beast and September has a way of crushing those whose concentration has been stretched for one and have zero on field leadership to rally them forward in the rough spots. The pitchers have been leading this team because guys like Pablo Lopez lead. The offense has nobody. I believe both Buxton and Correa are injured but I do want to know if they can play. Correa at half speed (he is always slow) makes plays at shortstop that the subs cannot; it is depressing. Same with Buck.

Those are just my thoughts. 

Did anyone ever imagine that the Twins would get the innings they are getting from Ober, Woods Richardson, Festa, and even Matthews. It is pretty amazing. 

 

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

rescue may be too late with Varland & Keirsey to settle in.

If you're relying on Varland and Keirsey to lead the team to victory you're relying on the wrong people.

[Peter]

No question twins are playing their worst baseball-very upsetting and depressing. With AA/AAA team twins have played great up until last 2 weeks. Definitely need corea/buxton back in lineup. Hopefully Rocco tore the twins a new one and they will come back with a vengeance!!! Rest this week/ as well rest of season must must must win series against rest of teams!!! 

[Strombomb]

4 hours ago, hitterscount said:

They rely on the home run to generate runs, with the issue being they don’t have one major home run threat. This is what an offense looks like when your offensive philosophy sucks.

This. 

 

[JD-TWINS]

4 hours ago, hitterscount said:

They rely on the home run to generate runs, with the issue being they don’t have one major home run threat. This is what an offense looks like when your offensive philosophy sucks.

As far as Rocco lighting a fire in the players, I suspect there isn’t much respect there… just might explain these lifeless performances.

If the players need their Manager to motivate them with 20 games left in a playoff race they have no individual character! Respect yourself & the game and get off your ass and start producing…….that should be the message to each other……Baldelli should not have to point that concept out to his Team.

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

For a player's manager, Rocco has no issues throwing his team under the bus. 

THEY DESERVE IT - BIG TIME!

[Strombomb]

1 hour ago, 1985Fan said:

I’m sure the FO and Rocco are already writing the “woe is us, we just had too many injuries to overcome” response to why the Twins missed playoffs or get bounced right away. 
All teams have injuries this time of year. No team or player is 100%, but good teams find a way to win. Twins against the good teams have a terrible record for a reason. They’re not a good team. 

There's a ton of raw talent there. Just not well coaced/managed.

Minus Santana, (Buc, Farmer, and C4) there's lots of young/inexperienced players.

Lots of good ingredients, but something very important missing from the recipe!

[JD-TWINS]

28 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

We watch the games, we want the Twins to win, we suffer their losses, and we have thoughts on why.

Me too .... but I am sure I don't really know what is going on.

Just a couple of thoughts: 1) Do faces from the front office (Falvey & Sons) meet with Baldelli on a regular basis? How often? How much of the plan is discussed, agreed on, and then fairly well scripted? These questions are important because this is precisely why Molitor was removed and many teams in MLB today have expected scenarios all played out before the games. Of course, the manager should be expected to have ideas of what gets done when and with which players. However, we seem to see a blind allegiance to maths as if it is absolute, which it is not. The vast preponderance of slavish and sometimes useful data and the many who follow the numbers more than the games is an example too.  Thus Ober gets lifted despite the game situation which tells us that Kansas City doesn't have but a sliver of a chance to get a baserunner much less score a run. Is this the brains making a decision. The comment boards scream at Baldelli and it should be his call. Is It though? I'm not sure about an answer to my questions.

Next - 2) The Twins have a pile of very inexperienced, quite raw players but a paucity of hard edged veterans. Santana is out, Farmer is cooked and physically struggles to an absurd degree despite his vast array of knowledge, expertise, and experience, Correa is out and absent, Buxton - same, Kepler is out, and  Margot is out. Meanwhile all of Jeffers, Miranda, Julien, Lee, Lewis, Castro, Larnach, Wallner, Martin, Helman, and Keirsey Jr.  are either rookies or have not established themselves as reliable full season MLB players. The MLB season is a beast and September has a way of crushing those whose concentration has been stretched for one and have zero on field leadership to rally them forward in the rough spots. The pitchers have been leading this team because guys like Pablo Lopez lead. The offense has nobody. I believe both Buxton and Correa are injured but I do want to know if they can play. Correa at half speed (he is always slow) makes plays at shortstop that the subs cannot; it is depressing. Same with Buck.

Those are just my thoughts. 

Did anyone ever imagine that the Twins would get the innings they are getting from Ober, Woods Richardson, Festa, and even Matthews. It is pretty amazing. 

 

First. I like him and his future potential, but Matthews has not been amazing in the Show. Ober - SWR - Festa have all come up as very positive in their different rolls, agreed!

Buxton and Correa will play as soon as they are able - does not seem mysterious in any way other than nobody knows a firm date for either.

Having regular meetings with F.O. and scripting things or trying to formulate plans for games seems to me to be just good preparation. I do know, even if these plans seem to be restrictive on some level, that there is nothing in the plans that assumes the Team is going to score 11 runs over a 6 game stretch nor 2 runs over a 3 game stretch.

Offense is pathetic - execution on offense and defense is pathetic - 3rd base coach for last 3 weeks has been pathetic.

Tough club to watch - tough to be excited about club on any level.

[h2oface]

1 hour ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

For a player's manager, Rocco has no issues throwing his team under the bus. 

Once? That was really pretty mild, too. Not very inspiring.

[tony&rodney]

17 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Having regular meetings with F.O. and scripting things or trying to formulate plans for games seems to me to be just good preparation.

With the coaches, yes, by all means. This should be an every day discussion but no to any inclusion of Falvey and crew. The front office does not have the baseball expertise of the coaching staff just as the coaching staff does not have expertise with the financial side of the game. Falvey & Sons puts the team together. That includes their choices for manager and coaches and those guys (Rocco, etc.) need to do their jobs with the players provided by Falvey and the FO.

I just disagree with the notion of Falvey, Levine, or others from the front office in on playing time, substitutions, and pitching changes. If Baldelli and his coaches cannot handle these chores, get someone else. Let Falvey sit with Joe Pohlad in the owner's box. 

[mnfireman]

5 hours ago, thelanges5 said:

Rocco’s mad, as he should be. Can he light a fire under these Twins?

 

This starts at the top. A team is a reflection of its manager...

[1985Fan]

29 minutes ago, Strombomb said:

There's a ton of raw talent there. Just not well coaced/managed.

Minus Santana, (Buc, Farmer, and C4) there's lots of young/inexperienced players.

Lots of good ingredients, but something very important missing from the recipe!

There is young talent. I agree that inexperience is part of the problem right now, but there are some serious defensive flaws at multiple positions that will be hard to overcome. Too many defensive collapses that cost games. I blame a lot of it on emphasizing versatility instead of excellence. I hope Rocco & coaches start to teach players to be excellent at one position instead of jack of all trades, master of none. 

[RpR]

49 minutes ago, Strombomb said:

There's a ton of raw talent there. Just not well coaced/managed.

 

Wishful thinkking, coaches and managment are not miracle workers, but

Baldeli's way of putting them here there and every where, just exposes short comings.

[Fatbat]

5 hours ago, RpR said:

Vazquez went 3 for 3 today, so he broke his slump.

Put Julien back on the bench and play Farmer.

Miranda is still batting .300.

Farmer will start against the lefty SP

[S Bart]

Somebody needs to show Warkins a video on "How to Coach Third Base." The number of times that he has sent runners on to home ending in outs is in the double figures this year. 

They are up against two teams out of the playoffs (Angels and Reds) followed by the Guardians There is a good chance the playoff picture will be solidified after those games. If not, they will then face the playoff contender Boston.  

[Danchat]

24 minutes ago, RpR said:

Wishful thinkking, coaches and managment are not miracle workers, but

Baldeli's way of putting them here there and every where, just exposes short comings.

That’s a system-wide issue, not just a Baldelli one. The likes of Martin, Julien, and Miranda have come up from the minors not close to ready to play certain positions and have spent time playing positions they wouldn’t be able to in the minors.

[killebrewlover]

So, who's to blame?  Can someone please tell me?  Cause I'm tired of all the excuses.   I've had enough of this team.  From here on, I'm devoting all my energies to the NFL.  Good night Mr. Baldelli.  Please remember to turn off the lights when you're done...

[bean5302]

The Twins look like the team which was playing back in early April. Still, they're in a good position thanks to how surprisingly uninspired the rest of the AL Wildcard favorites have been. The Royals rolled over against Cleveland, but the Twins have seemingly struggled even worse. The Red Sox are trying to avoid the playoffs at all costs, even dropping games to the lowly White Sox. Meanwhile, Detroit and Seattle have moved back into striking distance thanks to Minnesota's free fall.

Over the past month.
Starter ERA = 13th vs. DET (5th), SEA (6th), BOS (7th)
Reliever ERA = 20th vs. DET (1st), SEA (11th), BOS (30th... OUCH)
Lineup RBI = 20th vs. DET (16th), SEA (14th), BOS (21st)
Lineup wOBA = 20th vs. DET (22nd), SEA (19th), BOS (26th)

Detroit is looking like a real threat to eat the Twins' playoff hopes, and Seattle is becoming a significant threat. Boston just got Story back who could maybe help the lineup, but clearly they need relievers.

This Twins team does not feel like last year's squad which had some magic and mojo.

[terrydactyls]

5 hours ago, RpR said:

Wallner and Miranda are the only two that could bring prime trade material but if they lose them they will be fighting what ever team to stay out of last place  as I do not think their Minor league rookies are what they once were.

I don't mean to be snarky or insulting, but this word salad sentence is impossible to decode. 

Wallner and Miranda could bring prime trade material?  Aren't they the prime trade material?  Or are you suggesting that the Twins trade them for people that they can trade to someone else?

If the Twins lose them (aren't you suggesting they are traded for value?) then they (I assume you mean the Twins and not Wallner and Miranda) will be fighting whatever team (??) to stay out of last place?  That doesn't make sense.  If they are traded, I would hope the Twins get value back to offset the loss of Wallner and Miranda.  If not, why trade them?

You do not think their Minor league rookies are what they once were.  If they are rookies, how can they have a history to compare with?

[Doctor Gast]

8 hours ago, DJL44 said:

If you're relying on Varland and Keirsey to lead the team to victory you're relying on the wrong people.

Did I say that we need to rely on Varland & Keirsey to lead the team? Absolutely not! "I've stated that the team has been overstretched for a long time & needs them desperately to give breaks to these overstretched players so they can bounce back & give us quality production," This is a small role but a very important one for us to thrive

Please read my texts & don't read into them what I didn't say.

[Riverbrian]

Y'all can look into a clubhouse and talk passionately about the lack of leadership eh. 

I just wanted to see if I could start a sentence with a southern expression and finish the sentence with a Canadian expression. 

Leadership is a funny thing. 

On August 1st the Tigers were 52-57. 

Leaving Detroit were Carson Kelly, Andrew Chafin, Mark Canha and Ryan Flaherty.

They completed the vet cleanout when they just DFA'd Gio Urshela on August 15th. While calling up Jung, Sweeney and Torkelson from Toledo.  

The last of the last vets. Javier Baez got hurt on August 23. He is done for the year. 

The reason I mention the Tigers. I'm kinda curious if those who can see into the Twins clubhouse and speak so passionately about leadership... can you also look into the Tigers clubhouse and tell me who is leading that club? 

They are 21-14 since the trade deadline. 15-8 since August 15th and have made up 6.5 games of ground on the Twins. 

They have 25 million on the books next year for Baez along with 10 million for Maeda and 4 million for Colt Keith. On top of that... only 6 players Arb Eligible, only Skubal due a huge Arb number. 

Anyway... just wondering... who is leading those Tigers. 

 

 

[wavedog]

After watching Friday's and Saturdays games I decided to skip watching their game yesterday - I needed a break - and watch football instead.   No regrets on that decision which as a lifelong Twins fan is a sad comment to write considering they are battling for a playoff spot.   This team is hard to watch even with the infusion of youth doing pretty well.  Disappointed in ownership and fundamentals of team.   I'll be back this week.