Rangers 6, Twins 5: Jorge Alcalá Implodes, Extra-Inning Miscues Cost Twins Sweep

[CRF]

We got Rocco'd. 

[Nashvilletwin]

12 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Can’t believe that anybody would try to put ALCALA’s complete failure to do his job on Baldelli. After 4 pitches there were 2 runs in and a guy standing on 2nd.

The 20/20 hindsight is out of control. What did your crystal ball tell you was to happen in the 8th & 9th after Jax pitched a perfect 7th?

Just because there’s 6 other ways to approach a situation it doesn’t mean that what was done was in any way a mistake! The Manager did exactly what has been a formula for numerous wins……..Alcala was not focused, period.

Jax is the most trusted high leverage setup guy who is routinely called upon - with success - to deal with the toughest parts of the opposing team’s order.  He was also the freshest.  And we know how dangerous the top of the Ranger’s lineup has been.  The seventh was a fairly standard situation for Jax.  As I said, the initial and bigger mistake was not using Jax to open the 7th.

There is no 20/20 hindsight. It was just the wrong call given the personnel available and the situation.  And, yes, Alcala could have come out for the eighth with the less dangerous portion of the Rangers’ lineup would be batting.

It’s ok to admit Rocco made a bad call.  We can’t win every game and sometimes the manager makes bad decisions just like the players.  Rocco’s made plenty of good calls too.  It happens.  

[William K Johnson]

As well as he managed Saturday, yesterday's loss falls squarely on his shoulders.

[jmlease1]

I guess it's good that people care enough about every game to have a massive overreaction to losing one road game while still taking 3 out of 4 in a series?

I like to remind myself on these days that some people despise everything about the way Rocco and Twins leadership manages a game and will jump on him immediately and excessively at every opportunity.

Bullpen is getting ground down a bit right now; this happened to us earlier in the season when the Twins were on a good run because they were in every game, but also weren't blowing anyone out. It should be fine, but things are a bit trickier right now because it's hard to let off the gas when you're chasing the division while being chased in the WC.

Good to see Lopez battle through on a day when he didn't have his best stuff and the other team was making him work. Too bad we couldn't hold it. Alcala has been really good lately, so seeing him implode like that was a surprise; he's had some bad outing this year but they were typically when we tried to have him go 2 innings rather than 1

[TwinsDr2021]

Man, I am usually the one ranting, but they took 3 of 4 on the road, All star reliever Yates had a loss and and blown save. This was a good series, Alcala blew is second save in 17 chances, blown saves happen, (jax has blown 4 of 32 and Duran 6 of 30)

[wabene]

I can't remember, but when we were losing 90+ games in 5 of 6 seasons under Gardy, did he get a ton of flack? I don't think so. I don't get it. Baldelli has one of the best winning percentages in franchise history. Baldelli was the far superior ballplayer. It's got to be the quirky, Phish fan, hippy?, East Coast guy vs the Bud Light swilling Everyman from Ole Oklahoma phenomenon. 😂 

Edit maybe one of those 90 loss seasons was under Molly, but I'm to lazy to look.

[David Maro]

When they show the BP you see two rubbers,and many times 2 RP warming up.As poorly as Lopez looked Rocco should of had pitchers up in the 2nd.Anyone defending him is wrong because managers can take a pitcher out after 3 hitters.He is right there watching his pitcher throw meatballs.It is one thing to give up a one run lead,but 4 is inexcusable.

[wabene]

I like Baldelli overall, but calling me a "defender" doesn't sit well with me. At all. There are times I disagree with one of his moves, but I'm reluctant to post about it for 2 reasons. 

1. I don't like to complain, maybe I'm a stoic, lol. 

2. There is well more than enough Baldelli bashing around here so I don't want to add to it.

Simple as that.

[jmlease1]

58 minutes ago, wabene said:

I can't remember, but when we were losing 90+ games in 5 of 6 seasons under Gardy, did he get a ton of flack? I don't think so. I don't get it. Baldelli has one of the best winning percentages in franchise history. Baldelli was the far superior ballplayer. It's got to be the quirky, Phish fan, hippy?, East Coast guy vs the Bud Light swilling Everyman from Ole Oklahoma phenomenon. 😂 

Edit maybe one of those 90 loss seasons was under Molly, but I'm to lazy to look.

Gardy got some stick from people like me for doing things like batting his 2B 2nd in the lineup, seemingly regardless of who the player was, and refusing to admit that Jacque Jones couldn't hit LHP. But overall, Gardy got picked on a lot less: the blame for the losing seasons was usually dumped on the Pohlads for being cheap, or Joe Mauer for being hurt and/or talking too many walks.

[JD-TWINS]

13 hours ago, Blyleven2011 said:

If acala was not focused  , then rocco should have removed him after 3 batters  and I don't care how many pitches were thrown , acala should have been  taken out ( he did this with richards about 10 days ago when richards couldn't find the strike zone and walks and runs were allowed  )  , the manager did what he always does to let a game get away  , he wants a pitcher to complete a whole inning and not bring in a relief pitcher to clean up his mess , ( if you believe Rocco's a capable manager , then i will disagree , I've said many times , Rocco will never bring us to a world series or win it  ) ,...

it's rocco's MO not to change horses mid stream , he wants a relief pitcher to have a fresh inning  ,,, richards finally was brought in ( after 5 runs were scored off Alcala  when he wasn't focused )  and did get the out and pitched another inning ...

In what world does anyone on TD support bringing in Richards for Alcala in the midst of a jam?

You “don’t care how many pitches were thrown….” - then you’re not watching in reality. 4 pitches to 3 batters (impossible to replace him at that point, unless you have a Genie in a Bottle) - nice to say after the guy gives up 2 HR & 3 more runs from a couch.

He got an out with Seager on 2nd ……..apparently gaining some composure and able to pitch to his capabilities……no reason to think otherwise. The guy has been lights out nearly all year!

Players screw up - it happens.

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, David Maro said:

When they show the BP you see two rubbers,and many times 2 RP warming up.As poorly as Lopez looked Rocco should of had pitchers up in the 2nd.Anyone defending him is wrong because managers can take a pitcher out after 3 hitters.He is right there watching his pitcher throw meatballs.It is one thing to give up a one run lead,but 4 is inexcusable.

I think what’s inexcusable is when Baldelli pinch hit Lewis late in the game and then Lewis had the audacity to strike out - what terrible managing!

[JD-TWINS]

2 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Jax is the most trusted high leverage setup guy who is routinely called upon - with success - to deal with the toughest parts of the opposing team’s order.  He was also the freshest.  And we know how dangerous the top of the Ranger’s lineup has been.  The seventh was a fairly standard situation for Jax.  As I said, the initial and bigger mistake was not using Jax to open the 7th.

There is no 20/20 hindsight. It was just the wrong call given the personnel available and the situation.  And, yes, Alcala could have come out for the eighth with the less dangerous portion of the Rangers’ lineup would be batting.

It’s ok to admit Rocco made a bad call.  We can’t win every game and sometimes the manager makes bad decisions just like the players.  Rocco’s made plenty of good calls too.  It happens.  

My hindsight is that Alcala comes out and pitches to his capabilities and worst case gives up 2 runs - everybody is happy and there’s no debate. Much greater chance of a 2.15 ERA pitcher to have success v. not using him until the fantasy inning when he doesn’t screw up.

[WLFINN]

2 hours ago, William K Johnson said:

As well as he managed Saturday, yesterday's loss falls squarely on his shoulders.

This.  With a four run lead put Richards, Okert or Thielbar out there with the thought that if it gets close you still have your best guys available. If they were down 1-0 it wouldn’t have been Alcala, seems to rigidly scripted at times.

[LambchoP]

Tough loss, but I put this one on Rocco. Up four runs, Alcala shouldn't have even been out there after already pitching three times this series. Then, there was no reason to leave him in there when it was obvious it wasn't his night and he was getting crushed. Also, why on earth does Rocco pinch hit Vasquez for Larnach, just because Vasquez hits right handed. Larnach has a better chance of getting a hit off a lefty imo. These "getaway" days are getting pretty frustrating from a management pov. We need Buxton and Correa back ASAP. If Castro goes on the IL now we are truly screwed. We already have no true CF on the team because they refuse to call up Keirsey. If Castro is hurt we'd have to rely on Farmer as our everyday SS. A guy hitting under .200. Julien should never have been called up, he's not viable at this point. Not sure if Severino can play 2nd but maybe his switch hitting power would help the lineup more than Juliens strikeouts looking. What's up with Lee?

[HarmonK03]

Why not play Lewis at SS and move Castro to second.  This keeps Lewis and Miranda bats in the lineup.  I know Lewis has not been stellar on defense this year, but two years ago he came up and played short.  I can't believe he wouldn't be a better option than Castro and Farmer.  Then you could bring up Kiersey to play center.

[Pat]

It's pretty  clear that many relievers just can't pitch on back to back days regardless of the number of pitches thrown the previous day.  The process of warming up on consecutive days takes too much out of them.  

[August J Gloop]

16 hours ago, Whitey333 said:

Loss is definitely on Rocco today.  One of a handful of games the manager has lost this year.  Excuse the people backing Rocco for keeping Alcala in there while he is getting hammered.  There is no excuse for how he handled it.  Alcala may have made rotten pitches but Roccos continued lack of game management skills is astounding. People say how lucky the Guardians are because the Twins lost. It works both ways.  Maybe the Twins are lucky because Clevelanf lost. Very disappointing and needless loss.

Explain in simple terms how Rocco could have managed that situation. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Texas gave us a couple wins, sounds like we gave one back. Thus goes the baseball season.

I am also a believer in the back-to-back day phenomenon. Taylor Rogers was a big one who seemed to struggle with that. (Caveat: I don’t actually know what the results show.)

If you are going to build in rest days for your position players, then it’s logical to build in rest days for your pitchers. 

By the way, what does Gleeman say about using Duran in 4 out of 5 days? 

Quote

But it's not realistic to always warm up a second reliever. That burns out a bullpen.

 

[mrcharlie]

18 hours ago, thelanges5 said:

Next three series:

Twins - Padres, Cards, Braves

Guardos - Yanks, Rangers, Royals

Royals - Angels, Phils, Guardos

LFG Twins!!!

Twins won't get any help from the schedule.  

Re:  Sunday loss.  Bullpen should have been active once Alcala entered the game w/ Jax and Richards/Thielbar throwing.  The contact play in 10th I don't like (w/ 2 outs ok).

 

[Nashvilletwin]

3 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

My hindsight is that Alcala comes out and pitches to his capabilities and worst case gives up 2 runs - everybody is happy and there’s no debate. Much greater chance of a 2.15 ERA pitcher to have success v. not using him until the fantasy inning when he doesn’t screw up.

Fair point.  But I was sitting in my living room calling for Jax for the 7th as soon as Lopez finished the 6th. So I had no hindsight on this question.  Sitting there I was thinking (am I sure others were too), based on his performance this year, how Rocco has opted to deploy him, the Rangers he’d be facing, and his freshness, that it was a perfect Jax moment.  But I respect other opinions.  

[Vanimal46]

It took an unprecedented (for this season) Alcala meltdown and an error in extra innings for the Rangers to win 1 home game out of 4. Everything is going to be alright. 

[Doctor Gast]

Just a suggestion, if Baldelli wants to utilize the PH role. IMO he should better prepare them.

[Craig Arko]

33 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

It took an unprecedented (for this season) Alcala meltdown and an error in extra innings for the Rangers to win 1 home game out of 4. Everything is going to be alright. 

How dare you!

[JD-TWINS]

33 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Fair point.  But I was sitting in my living room calling for Jax for the 7th as soon as Lopez finished the 6th. So I had no hindsight on this question.  Sitting there I was thinking (am I sure others were too), based on his performance this year, how Rocco has opted to deploy him, the Rangers he’d be facing, and his freshness, that it was a perfect Jax moment.  But I respect other opinions.  

So, again, I get how everyone wanted to get a WIN and just happened to have a better idea than Baldelli. Human nature to think your own thoughts are correct…..especially after the outcome turns out to be not so good.

However, with a 4-0 lead, the least pressure that could be put on Alcala getting his inning in on Sunday & contributing was to start the 7th. He had a clean situation and still had Jax & Duran behind him. A 4 run cushion is considerable and he was under no excessive pressure. Lopez had been working through the same line-up without great stuff nor great command for 6 innings. The Rangers have a solid line-up but Lopez proved (and was proved over first 3 games) that it’s not murderers row. Alcala wasn’t up to the task - in a big way. Hoping he shakes it off for next outing.

 

[JD-TWINS]

33 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

Just a suggestion, if Baldelli wants to utilize the PH role. IMO he should better prepare them.

Do not understand???? - in what way? These guys know they could be called on. They are all professionals!! The Manager doesn’t prepare batters for AB’s…..it’s not Little League.

[chpettit19]

24 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

Just a suggestion, if Baldelli wants to utilize the PH role. IMO he should better prepare them.

What would better preparing them look like? The Twins are 2nd in baseball in pinch hitting PAs at 142 (Boston is at 149 and 3rd place is San Fran at 129). The Twins have played 124 games. Everybody who didn't start is either getting a full day off and they know they aren't playing at all (because Rocco told them before the game), or they know the chances are somebody is getting a PH AB that day so they should be prepared. And it's not hard to figure out that Farmer and Julien are a platoon and Margot and the corner guys are. Farmer goes into every game he's not starting but Julien is knowing that he's hitting for Julien if a lefty comes in. And vice versa. Same for Margot and the lefty corner bats.

They have more pinch hitting PAs than games played. They should all be doing the necessary work to be prepared to pinch hit as the game goes along. I'd bet a large sum of money that Rocco also tells them throughout the game that "if situation A plays out you're hitting so be prepared." Although, he may actually have his other coaches do the communicating, but the idea is the same. How would Rocco better prepare them?

[August J Gloop]

1 hour ago, mrcharlie said:

Twins won't get any help from the schedule.  

Twins getting TONS of help from the schedule. The winning teams they have left to play are either at home or teams that they need to beat. They've got more home games than road games. KC and CLE play 6 more times so either they both lose some ground or one team gets wiped out. 

Quote

Re:  Sunday loss.  Bullpen should have been active once Alcala entered the game w/ Jax and Richards/Thielbar throwing.

Always have two relievers ready to pitch so no reliever thinks that they can do their job. 

Quote

  The contact play in 10th I don't like (w/ 2 outs ok).

You don't like it because Texas defended it. Two outs isn't the contact play. 

[insagt1]

The game sure elicited a lot of passion. Winning still seems to be job #1 here for the most part.

Aside from the pitching and Rocco, Santana bailed them out quickly in the 9th but the hitters did nothing at all after that. The 10th inning was unfortunate both top and bottom. The contact play didn't work at all (it hasn't worked that much to begin with..Twins are now 4-5 in extras?) The strikeouts haven't helped. Both Lewis and Julien do whiff in key spots. I'd like to see Lewis cut down on the k's, especially with 2 strikes. Julien OTOH really can't hit MLB pitching and he probably shouldn't be up. He was a feel good story last season, for awhile, but this year has not been kind to him.

The error that cost them the game was also unfortunate. Duran was pitching OK. Should have easily been runner on 3rd two out and take your chances. Odds in your favor.

Santana has come up with some pretty clutch AB's 2nd half. Twins should consider whether it makes sense to re-sign him..guess the issue would be at his age, how much high octane is left in the tank?

[Nashvilletwin]

47 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

So, again, I get how everyone wanted to get a WIN and just happened to have a better idea than Baldelli. Human nature to think your own thoughts are correct…..especially after the outcome turns out to be not so good.

However, with a 4-0 lead, the least pressure that could be put on Alcala getting his inning in on Sunday & contributing was to start the 7th. He had a clean situation and still had Jax & Duran behind him. A 4 run cushion is considerable and he was under no excessive pressure. Lopez had been working through the same line-up without great stuff nor great command for 6 innings. The Rangers have a solid line-up but Lopez proved (and was proved over first 3 games) that it’s not murderers row. Alcala wasn’t up to the task - in a big way. Hoping he shakes it off for next outing.

 

Could be.  But four runs is a big cushion until it isn’t.  And this was actually a big game with Cleveland losing and the chance for the extremely rare road four game sweep (especially ahead of a west coast trip to see the talented Padres).

Question for you.  If Alcala gets out of the 7th with a clean inning, does Jax get the 8th or was Rocco taking the chance that he might be able to save Jax and/or Duran a day on the mound?  Maybe Rocco was getting a little greedy - and it’s understandable given how good Alcala has been.  I’ll bet Rocco wishes he had just stuck to his model and had Jax pitch the 7th.

[Schmoeman5]

The win as a team, lose as a team is true. Alcala bad innining. Contact play with the Rangers infield in. Wallner missing a chance to drive in a big run with 1st and 3rd GBDP. Error on the final play. They lost a winnable game. On to San Diego.  Let's go.