The Minnesota Twins Are Ready to Build on a Foundation of Depth

[Ted Schwerzler]

The Minnesota Twins went into the 2023 Major League Baseball season with more depth than any time in recent memory. After a 2022 season in which the team fell apart due to injuries down the stretch, they looked to create internal answers. After that worked so well, does it now dictate that as standard procedure?

Image courtesy of © Matt Blewett-USA TODAY Sports

A season ago, Rocco Baldelli constantly searched for warm bodies to take the field. Trying to stave off a comeback from the Cleveland Guardians, he needed pitching help and players to round out his lineup. Having depth is something that every organization strives for, but incorporating it at the highest level is something that the players bought into.

Bailey Ober started at Triple-A this season despite arguably earning an Opening Day roster spot. Nick Gordon broke out in 2022 but broke his leg early in the season, but utility man Willi Castro stepped up and nearly matched Gordon's 2022 statistics. Injuries to Jorge Alcala and Jose Miranda could be withstood because of the options that Derek Falvey had put in place from the get-go.

Looking to 2024, how sensible is it for the Twins to continue the same thought process moving forward?

Under this front office regime, a baseline has often been established. Kyle Farmer was acquired before the Twins re-signed Carlos Correa. Sure, he could have been expanded upon, but he was also a talent capable of starting. That could also be said about Ober in the rotation, and plenty of other players over the years.

With plenty of positions filled in on paper, you can bet that Falvey will be unwilling to call it good enough. Farmer and Castro are both arbitration-eligible this offseason, and their return helps to create depth in an infield that should already have Edouard Julien and Royce Lewis penned in next to Correa. Though the rotation could be rounded out with Louie Varland acting as the fifth starter, pushing him back with a Pablo Lopez-type addition would make plenty of sense.

Minnesota has often shied away from spending on big arms in the bullpen. They don’t necessarily need them with Jhoan Duran and Griffin Jax returning, but adding to a group should be done from the top down. Caleb Thielbar is arbitration-eligible and can be retained, and Brock Stewart doesn’t hit arbitration until the 2025 season. Expecting replications of all players isn’t straightforward, and relying on internal depth doesn’t seem to be something the Twins will try.

When working with depth, you often deal with unpredictable outcomes. Donovan Solano and Castro had great years. Michael A. Taylor became the primary centerfielder. Those things are significant developments, but they can’t be the expectation year-over-year. Replicating the process of having capable bodies is a must, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that the same names will provide answers.

We saw internal depth keep players like Julien, Ober, or Matt Wallner down until Minnesota couldn’t help it anymore. Sometimes, that causes frustration for the fan base or player, but it also wound up being necessary over the entire season. That process bore results and should be assumed as part of fact going forward.

Finding a collection of selfless players when dividing playing time is a significant part of the process. Falvey found a way to incorporate depth without those players operating as threats or hired arms on one-year deals. He’ll need to find a way to work with personalities and replicate the process again for 2024. It’s undoubtedly a good thing we have seen what that success looks like.

Are you okay with additional depth pushing down initial opportunities for other players? How much do you think depth saved Minnesota this season?

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[Riverbrian]

The lack of depth cost us in 2022... Having depth saved us in 2023. 

With depth obvious for all to see in 2024. Now it's about taking the talent level up a notch at the upper end. 

You pull from the bottom and add at the top but you keep that depth at all costs.  

I don't want to rearrange similar pieces. Changing the names of your depth doesn't improve the club. IMO... This off-season should be about adding difference makers.  

[FlyingFinn]

" Nick Gordon broke out in 2022 but broke his leg early in the season, but utility man Willi Castro stepped up and nearly matched Gordon's 2022 statistics."

I disagree - Castro surpassed 2022 Gordon in defensive positions played well, speed, stealing, arm strength. Everything except hitting stats.

[jmlease1]

I think this regime values depth and is making it a priority to have players with positional flexibility and ensuring that the team is giving as few innings and ABs to bad players as possible. I do think they have a preference for veterans in bench roles over young players and believe in rotation depth. They're definitely less interested in investing money in the bullpen; they'll put assets in there, but I wouldn't expect to see big contracts handed out to anything beyond retaining someone like Duran.

It will be interesting to see how the front office looks to have similar depth options in 2024 to what they did in 2023; I think they have more internal options this season than they thought they had at this point last season, and definitely more than they had in 2022. That may impact their thinking on how to approach free agency and the trade market. yes, there's still a bit of a glut of infielders on this roster, but there are also guys with injury histories.

I think they're likely to try and add another starter, either through retaining Gray/Maeda, if they can make the contract terms work, and if not I can definitely see them looking for another guy, so as not to put too many eggs in Chris Paddack's basket and/ot Louie Varland's. It's not an indictment on either player, I just think they assume they're going to need at least 7-10 guys making starts to get through a season, and are more comfortable having another veteran in the rotation rather than rolling the dice on Varland/SWR/Festa being ready on Opening Day or coming in when someone gets a ding and needs 2-3 weeks off. that plus, they know that while they had excellent health from starters this season overall, they still had 8 pitchers make 5 or more starts...and right now I have no idea who that 8th guy would be for the Twins. Randy Dobnak? He was healthy, but not good in AAA. Winder, Sands, and Balazovic sure look like they're transitioned to the bullpen, though it's still possible one of them could get tried again in a starting role.

[DFlow]

Depth is great but it doesn’t win in October pitching wise. The Twins for the first time in 17 years came in with a frontline starter into the playoffs who can matchup against other teams starters (they had two). Shocker- they won playoff games. The Twins will need to acquire or buy another frontline starter this offseason with Gray departing at minimum.

Depth is great for finances and winning in the regular season. Constantly being able to churn out competent back of the rotation starters is very valuable for winning consistently because you can invest your money on frontline pitching. Guys like Ryan, Ober, and Varland make life a lot easier on minimum deals so you can drop 20+ on Pablo and another 20+ on another top guy. 

If we can magically learn how to churn out one homegrown frontline starter, we will be major contenders.
 

 

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, FlyingFinn said:

" Nick Gordon broke out in 2022 but broke his leg early in the season, but utility man Willi Castro stepped up and nearly matched Gordon's 2022 statistics."

I disagree - Castro surpassed 2022 Gordon in defensive positions played well, speed, stealing, arm strength. Everything except hitting stats.

Hitting stats are the basis for the game - most difficult part. I liked Gordon post ‘22 a lot!! I like Castro for the reasons you pointed out.

I think the depth move may be to have Gordon & Castro be the Outfield guys along with Kepler & Wallner………then, do we bring back Taylor……..what’s Buxton’s health in 3-4 months? As good as Taylor was, his age & strikeouts may be a sign to move to more youth.

Could sign him & if things work out (Gordon’s hitting) with Buxton, we trade Gordon or Taylor into the season? Neither can be optioned - tough call for FO.

[EGFTShaw]

Not talking specifics really at this point because there are many moving parts.

But that doesn't mean I don't have an opinion. 😁

First, depth is an absolute must have. 162 games is a long season but we want is a long post season.  For that to happen you have to make it through the regular season anticipating you will deal with injuries, but hopefully the 10day or 15day variety and not the 60day to out for the season variety.  This allows you to get your players healthy again.

But the depth the Twins have extends to the minors. Ober went to the minors yet pitched very well when called up.

We have upcoming players at AA and AAA that can step in short term when needed.

OR

Be traded out for the more impact pieces that will help in the post season.

So far, I have seen the FO make some very good decisions.  Not all have panned out but the ones that have panned out have panned out in a big way.

So, I would like to see us keep as much as we have and then when target a piece that will push us to the next level bundle some assets together to get it, but not strip the farm.

Long term viability.

 

[chpettit19]

I'm with @Riverbrian, it's time to start improving the depth. They've built the floor, now it's time to raise the ceiling. Their strategy this year needs to be different than last year's in that they aren't just looking for competent major leaguers they're looking for above average to great major leaguers.

Cycling players out for other guys who aren't any better doesn't help anything. It's time to start improving the names at the top of the lineup, and replacing a name at the front of the rotation, while also improving the back of the rotation. Platooning and getting everyone ABs is a great strategy when you have a whole bunch of B and C level players who are pretty close in overall talent, but have strengths and weaknesses that match up. But having A level players instead is the better option. Plan A has to be to increase top end talent while maintaining the level of talent on the rest of the roster. Let's see if they can get that done. Should be an interesting offseason.

[Mike Sixel]

10 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I'm with @Riverbrian, it's time to start improving the depth. They've built the floor, now it's time to raise the ceiling. Their strategy this year needs to be different than last year's in that they aren't just looking for competent major leaguers they're looking for above average to great major leaguers.

Cycling players out for other guys who aren't any better doesn't help anything. It's time to start improving the names at the top of the lineup, and replacing a name at the front of the rotation, while also improving the back of the rotation. Platooning and getting everyone ABs is a great strategy when you have a whole bunch of B and C level players who are pretty close in overall talent, but have strengths and weaknesses that match up. But having A level players instead is the better option. Plan A has to be to increase top end talent while maintaining the level of talent on the rest of the roster. Let's see if they can get that done. Should be an interesting offseason.

CF, DH, and 1B are about it among the hitters.....you aren't replacing Lewis at 3B or either Polanco/Julien at 2B. CC isn't being replaced. Wallner, if they play him 120 games in LF is a top 5-10 LFer. Kepler, like it or not is staying. Jeffers, if allowed to catch 100 games like the best catchers, is top 5-10. 

CF? Buxton, Castro, Gordon, Martin, other? And if you say other, good luck finding one (you aren't in FA) that is likely to be great. 

DH? Buxton, Julien, Larnach, Miranda, other? 

1B? AK can't be relied on any more than Buxton can, imo. But giving up long term assets for a 1 year rental makes no sense, this team isn't THAT good. Severino, Miranda, Julien, Polanco, Buxton (ha, but still), other?

In pitching, I'd target one of the top 4 FA starters w/o doubt. Gotta get one of them. RP is so random, outside a few guys, that I have no idea what to do there.

The biggest improvement from last year is Wallner over Gallo for the year, Jeffers playing 90-100 games at catcher. Julien up all year. Lewis being healthy (fingers crossed), and someone reliably good at 1B. Those three things alone are worth 4-10 wins....

So, the big issue is, how do you, as you and @Riverbriansay, raise the ceiling more? I think it's going to require luck (on the hitting side someone stepping up, like Miranda or Martin).

[nicksaviking]

The depth for the starting rotation was great this year, but the 'depth' for the bats hurt the team this year. The Farmer/Solano/Taylor/Castro/Gallo/Vazquez crowd keeps the Julien/Wallner/Kirilloff/Jeffers crowd off of the field.

The obvious difference is that adding depth like Lopez or Gray to the top of the rotation is like adding Carlos Correa to the lineup. While adding depth like Gallo or Taylor is like adding Bundy or Shoemaker to the back of the rotation. If they want offensive depth that will inevitably block the better talent, add it to the top part of the lineup, not the back of the lineup or the bench.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, nicksaviking said:

The depth for the starting rotation was great this year, but the 'depth' for the bats hurt the team this year. The Farmer/Solano/Taylor/Castro/Gallo/Vazquez crowd keeps the Julien/Wallner/Kirilloff/Jeffers crowd off of the field.

The obvious difference is that adding depth like Lopez or Gray to the top of the rotation is like adding Carlos Correa to the lineup. While adding depth like Gallo or Taylor is like adding Bundy or Shoemaker to the back of the rotation. If they want offensive depth that will inevitably block the better talent, add it to the top part of the lineup, not the back of the lineup or the bench.

the biggest issue with the FO for me this year was demoting Wallner and Julien, and not trusting them to play earlier (and more in Wallner's case). In fairness, Farmer was signed as a placeholder until Lewis took over SS when they thought CC was gone....and Castro was a good utility player, which you need. Vazquez? That was his worst hitting year in some time. If he had been normal for him, he's a great 2nd C, again, they didn't trust Jeffers enough to play him 90-100 games like a starter. No idea how much of that is the FO vs manager....

The refusal to play Wallner over Gallo after May was mind. boggling. 

[chpettit19]

27 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

CF, DH, and 1B are about it among the hitters.....you aren't replacing Lewis at 3B or either Polanco/Julien at 2B. CC isn't being replaced. Wallner, if they play him 120 games in LF is a top 5-10 LFer. Kepler, like it or not is staying. Jeffers, if allowed to catch 100 games like the best catchers, is top 5-10. 

CF? Buxton, Castro, Gordon, Martin, other? And if you say other, good luck finding one (you aren't in FA) that is likely to be great. 

DH? Buxton, Julien, Larnach, Miranda, other? 

1B? AK can't be relied on any more than Buxton can, imo. But giving up long term assets for a 1 year rental makes no sense, this team isn't THAT good. Severino, Miranda, Julien, Polanco, Buxton (ha, but still), other?

In pitching, I'd target one of the top 4 FA starters w/o doubt. Gotta get one of them. RP is so random, outside a few guys, that I have no idea what to do there.

The biggest improvement from last year is Wallner over Gallo for the year, Jeffers playing 90-100 games at catcher. Julien up all year. Lewis being healthy (fingers crossed), and someone reliably good at 1B. Those three things alone are worth 4-10 wins....

So, the big issue is, how do you, as you and @Riverbriansay, raise the ceiling more? I think it's going to require luck (on the hitting side someone stepping up, like Miranda or Martin).

I don't care about top 5-10 LFer, I care about top X-Y outfielder. Limiting it to just guys who played LF this year isn't a good measuring stick. I don't think he's that good anyways, because I don't believe he can maintain an .850+ OPS while cutting down his Ks. I don't mind him in the 7-bench holes in a playoff lineup, but I'm not sitting on my hands saying "LF is set for the next 5 years" because of Wallner. I can take the "or not" on liking Kepler staying. He's a good example of what I'm talking about. He's a solid MLBer, but there's WAY more ceiling to be had at his spot. Kepler (or someone like him) hitting in the 3/4 hole in the playoffs isn't going to get them to the WS. Their next step is to start getting guys better than him so his type of hitter is hitting in the 6-bench holes in the lineup. Yes, Jeffers should catch way more games next year.

I'm fine with defense first, 8/9 hole hitting CFers. And it's difficult to find great players at basically every position. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be looking. Never said the FO has an easy task to raise the ceiling, but that's why they get paid millions to try to do it.

DH is a really obvious spot to go out and try to bring in an .850+, or better yet .900+, OPS bat. Not attempting to find an elite bat because of that set of hitters would be an awful plan. You don't need a DH only, but you have a lineup spot wide open for an elite bat that can fit in anywhere on the defensive ladder. They should be trying to find one. (Go wild and sign Ohtani!)

1B is pretty much the same situation as DH. It's an obvious hole to try to plug an elite bat.

Yeah, they have to find someone who can maintain Sonny's production from this year. I hope Canterino is a BP fixture after he comes back, but, other than Hader, I wouldn't be too aggressive in trying to bring in expensive relievers.

I've been on the "Lewis is a star" bandwagon for years so I have him at the top of the internal list of possible guys worthy of a top 4-5 spot in a playoff lineup. Really hoping his health gets on track. I don't believe Wallner, Jeffers, or Julien are that good. I'd give Julien the best chance of it, but his Ks and struggles against lefties have always been a problem. I don't care about 4-10 more wins, I care about improving chances of winning a WS, and I don't think the internal options are good enough to do it. A healthy Lewis who maintains his current production is the only guy on this team that sniffs the top 5 of that Houston lineup. And he's about the only one that makes the Braves lineup at all. Only one who sniffs the top 5 in the Philly lineup, too. We are way short on top of the lineup, playoff caliber bats.

You raise the ceiling by bringing in more talent. You don't let Kepler stop you from adding an elite RFer. You can get an elite bat at 2B, but not 1B? Julien, go get your 1B glove! Can get one at 3B? Lewis go work on the pivot at 2B, and Julien get your 1B glove! Can find an elite cOFer who's best in LF? Good news, Matt, you get to show off the cannon to 3B now, too, and Kepler, you better have those legs ready to run around CF, or beat out Matt for RF, if you want playing time! You raise the ceiling by getting more talent and figuring it out from there. You can focus on certain positions more than others as obvious places to improve, but you just get more talent and figure it out from there. It's not going to be easy, and I don't expect anything dramatic. Their best bet is getting improvement from the young guys. But this team isn't good enough to just recycle platoon options at half your lineup spots.

I fully expect another platoon happy lineup of B and C level players in 2024, but that shouldn't be their plan as they head into the offseason. I don't know all their options to improve, but they better be working to find some.

[ashbury]

The article focuses on salary arbitration, but minor league options matter more.  If the talent is stashed at AAA while the journeymen must play in the majors, it's a funny definition of depth.  It's why signing Gallo was a big gamble, and not because of the millions he was paid, but because he was only a bounce-back candidate.

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

So, the big issue is, how do you, as you and @Riverbriansay, raise the ceiling more? I think it's going to require luck (on the hitting side someone stepping up, like Miranda or Martin).

You either sign, trade or develop to raise the ceiling. Luck is always necessary no matter the path chosen. It could be said that Correa's REGULAR season was not luck based on his struggles at the plate... although his signing was an attempt to raise that ceiling higher. 

Last Off-Season. The Mariners acquired Teoscar Hernandez coming off 3 plus years of .800 plus OPS for Erik Swanson and some lefty in the minors. That's one example off the top of my head of a recent trade that raised the ceiling or at least tried to.

In hindsight... Teoscar had a down year for the Mariners but it was an attempt by the Mariners to bring in a game changing player to add to the depth they had assembled. 

 

[Riverbrian]

27 minutes ago, ashbury said:

The article focuses on salary arbitration, but minor league options matter more.  If the talent is stashed at AAA while the journeymen must play in the majors, it's a funny definition of depth.  It's why signing Gallo was a big gamble, and not because of the millions he was paid, but because he was only a bounce-back candidate.

You are absolutely cooking in my kitchen with this comment. The pots and pans are right over there... the spices are up here. Make yourself at home. I look forward to what you are preparing. 

Team depth is pointless... if in order to preserve that depth, you have to keep putting players performing like Gallo into the lineup day after day. Playing Gallo Every day over and over again is exactly what kills your team. We were fortunate to have a great pitching staff to prop us up until our youth started to dig our offense out of the hole a bit.   

Your depth is not just important in the case of injuries... it is also important in the case of Gallo type performances. If you don't utilize it for those Gallo type performances. It becomes a funny definition of depth. 

 

[Mike Sixel]

3 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

I don't care about top 5-10 LFer, I care about top X-Y outfielder. Limiting it to just guys who played LF this year isn't a good measuring stick. I don't think he's that good anyways, because I don't believe he can maintain an .850+ OPS while cutting down his Ks. I don't mind him in the 7-bench holes in a playoff lineup, but I'm not sitting on my hands saying "LF is set for the next 5 years" because of Wallner. I can take the "or not" on liking Kepler staying. He's a good example of what I'm talking about. He's a solid MLBer, but there's WAY more ceiling to be had at his spot. Kepler (or someone like him) hitting in the 3/4 hole in the playoffs isn't going to get them to the WS. Their next step is to start getting guys better than him so his type of hitter is hitting in the 6-bench holes in the lineup. Yes, Jeffers should catch way more games next year.

I'm fine with defense first, 8/9 hole hitting CFers. And it's difficult to find great players at basically every position. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be looking. Never said the FO has an easy task to raise the ceiling, but that's why they get paid millions to try to do it.

DH is a really obvious spot to go out and try to bring in an .850+, or better yet .900+, OPS bat. Not attempting to find an elite bat because of that set of hitters would be an awful plan. You don't need a DH only, but you have a lineup spot wide open for an elite bat that can fit in anywhere on the defensive ladder. They should be trying to find one. (Go wild and sign Ohtani!)

1B is pretty much the same situation as DH. It's an obvious hole to try to plug an elite bat.

Yeah, they have to find someone who can maintain Sonny's production from this year. I hope Canterino is a BP fixture after he comes back, but, other than Hader, I wouldn't be too aggressive in trying to bring in expensive relievers.

I've been on the "Lewis is a star" bandwagon for years so I have him at the top of the internal list of possible guys worthy of a top 4-5 spot in a playoff lineup. Really hoping his health gets on track. I don't believe Wallner, Jeffers, or Julien are that good. I'd give Julien the best chance of it, but his Ks and struggles against lefties have always been a problem. I don't care about 4-10 more wins, I care about improving chances of winning a WS, and I don't think the internal options are good enough to do it. A healthy Lewis who maintains his current production is the only guy on this team that sniffs the top 5 of that Houston lineup. And he's about the only one that makes the Braves lineup at all. Only one who sniffs the top 5 in the Philly lineup, too. We are way short on top of the lineup, playoff caliber bats.

You raise the ceiling by bringing in more talent. You don't let Kepler stop you from adding an elite RFer. You can get an elite bat at 2B, but not 1B? Julien, go get your 1B glove! Can get one at 3B? Lewis go work on the pivot at 2B, and Julien get your 1B glove! Can find an elite cOFer who's best in LF? Good news, Matt, you get to show off the cannon to 3B now, too, and Kepler, you better have those legs ready to run around CF, or beat out Matt for RF, if you want playing time! You raise the ceiling by getting more talent and figuring it out from there. You can focus on certain positions more than others as obvious places to improve, but you just get more talent and figure it out from there. It's not going to be easy, and I don't expect anything dramatic. Their best bet is getting improvement from the young guys. But this team isn't good enough to just recycle platoon options at half your lineup spots.

I fully expect another platoon happy lineup of B and C level players in 2024, but that shouldn't be their plan as they head into the offseason. I don't know all their options to improve, but they better be working to find some.

If you think you can improve on Jeffers, I don't think you're realistic at all. Go look at the stats. Give me a name. Kepler? I'd replace him, I said they won't..... I'm trying to be realistic here.

You can choose not to believe in Wallner, but then you have to believe in someone else for some reason. 

It's easy to say, go get better players. It's hard to actually find those, be right, have them be healthy, available, and acquire them. The twins were actually quite good offensively once they installed Wallner and Lewis.....

Want to get rid of productive players with lots of control left? Good luck finding guys. 

[tony&rodney]

7 hours ago, DFlow said:

If we can magically learn how to churn out one homegrown frontline starter, we will be major contenders.

Perhaps Varland takes a big step up in 2024. We can also look forward to David Festa getting his feet wet next year and claiming a rotation spot in 2025. 

But, yes, a trade or free agent signing this offseason is an important key to next season.

[ashbury]

5 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

You are absolutely cooking in my kitchen with this comment. The pots and pans are right over there... the spices are up here. Make yourself at home. I look forward to what you are preparing. 

Team depth is pointless... if in order to preserve that depth, you have to keep putting players performing like Gallo into the lineup day after day. Playing Gallo Every day over and over again is exactly what kills your team. We were fortunate to have a great pitching staff to prop us up until our youth started to dig our offense out of the hole a bit.   

Your depth is not just important in the case of injuries... it is also important in the case of Gallo type performances. If you don't utilize it for those Gallo type performances. It becomes a funny definition of depth.

"Thank you for coming so quickly, Officer.  I know it sounds crazy, but there's a guy just standing there in my kitchen.  I was busy cooking up something I hoped would be good, and all of a sudden he's there, welcoming me to my own crib, inviting me to use the spices and so forth.  No, no, I don't want you to tase him - he doesn't seem malicious, just see if you can talk to him.  But don't let him make off with any pots and pans on his way out, either."

[Riverbrian]

44 minutes ago, ashbury said:

"Thank you for coming so quickly, Officer.  I know it sounds crazy, but there's a guy just standing there in my kitchen.  I was busy cooking up something I hoped would be good, and all of a sudden he's there, welcoming me to my own crib, inviting me to use the spices and so forth.  No, no, I don't want you to tase him - he doesn't seem malicious, just see if you can talk to him.  But don't let him make off with any pots and pans on his way out, either."

Excuse me officer... I'm not sure what he told you but this is my kitchen. Hey... Hey... those cuffs are little tight. Is this really necessary? 

Hold on... where are you taking me? Wait... Stop... Hold on a second... wait... wait... Umm... Look at that big picture on the wall.  

Yes... that photo... look at it... that's me isn't it. Why would a 30 by 40 framed photo of me be hanging on the wall above the dining table in HIS kitchen? 

Yes... It's becoming clear to you... that...  that kind of tribute to me... could only be in my kitchen. 

Hold on...reach into my back pocket and pull out my wallet. 

Take out my drivers license... Look at the photo on my license... yes that's right... It's the same exact... the very same photo on my license is also the photo in that large solid gold frame. The DMV photographer does good work... it was a good likeness of me so I had it enlarged and placed right there... I find it aids in digestion.  

If you don't mind... could you uncuff me now. I'm hungry and I was waiting to see what he is preparing. 

[DocBauer]

FIRST,  I'm going to be the BAD GUY here and state that I'm worried about losing over $50M from TV revenue and how much of it can be replaced by whatever deal(s) come in to play. For the first time in years, I'm worried about a potential loss in payroll, and betting there won't be a raise for the first time in a few years. NOT being a downer, just stating a fact none of us want to see happen. Right now, I'm hoping for at least a status quo.

BUT, there's a TON we don't know yet, and that's an entirely different discussion for a different day. And I want to focus on the OP.

I understand and appreciate the idea of raising the ceiling with additions to make this team better, and have a better shot at post season success. How could anyone debate that?

I also agree that keeping a status quo in regard to "depth" doesn't move the needle. No arguement there. 

Where I'm confused is the idea of "adding" better players/talent to a team that actually did that last year DID THAT before and during the season. I mean, the 2nd half Twins played between a 92 and 96 win pace between some changes and young talent. And many of us were practically begging for the younger talent. And we got it. So are we saying we need to now replace the young talent we wanted to see with different talent? 

Or is everyone kind of saying the same thing: just don't go status quo with the depth and margin talent?

1] Gray needs to be replaced with Gray...doubtful...or someone else. Personally, I think Varland has a chance to be a pretty good SP. He's still growing and learning and has tweaked his breaking ball. And he's already flashed. I'm excited for what little we saw of Paddack when we got him, and his tremendous recovery and late season appearances. But I'm a little worried about IP in 2024. And like this year, I want a good 6 options to start the season. And I'd love a flier to look at as well.

30yo Eduardo Rodriguez might come cheaper than Gray, have some upside with the Twins coaching, give us a LH, and come cheaper than Gray. Or we might instead see another trade for someone with upside, no names to present at this time, way too early. 

Dan Hayes has floated a very interesting idea of a reunion with a rehabbing Odorizzi...supposedly feeling really good and building himself back up...as a milb signing with ZERO risk as such a flier.

I'm still not convinced that a reunion of Maeda as a quality back end arm isn't a good idea with Ryan and Ober taking a step up, along with a healthy Paddack. 

Improvement with what's on hand, adding ONE important part, and adding some sort of optional piece has the ability to keep the rotation very strong still.

The base is there, but I want another quality starter to keep the floor high and keep the ceiling high with depth.

2] The Twins generally don't spend on the pen. And we can debate that as well. But as of NOW, we are looking at Duran, Jax, Stewart, Thielbar, very probably a return of the "new and improved" Pagan, and a couple LH's in Funderburk and Moran. I so wish Funderburk was brought up earlier, but he looked good in his debut. There's something to work with there. And while Moran largely disappointed, there is an ARM there if it can be harnessed. 

With NO additions, there is still a solid base to work with. It's not hard to see a 6 man pen from that group with POSSIBILITIES from Headrick from the left side...1st year at AAA and ML...and Sands, Winder, and Balazovic having some good qualities. Sands has a great breaking ball, Winder has a new sinker, Balazovic was a top 100 prospect with his stuff 2yrs ago when healthy. Henriquez had a couple injuries that slowed him, but flashed a little late in the year with his pen conversion and is only 23yo. Might Canterino, recovered, be a dangerous option by mid season? How about Alcala throwing high 90's again in his rehab? Could he be ready to FINALLY take a step forward? I'd sure like to see that.

I LOVE that the FO brings in arms with potential.  Witness Thielbar, and Stewart, and to a lesser extent the now injured De Leon. (Wissler a couple years ago). But I am also frustrated when they seem to HAVE such an arm such as Coulombe and Hoffman this past ST, and let them go for nothing. 

I DON'T expect a major BP signing like Hader, or other. And FA pen arms are always a bit of a wild card. And while it's not hard to squint and see the potential of this pen for 2024, I sure wish they would add just ONE quality arm for $5-7M maybe, that they really like and believe in to STABALIZE the back end.

Depth is there, I just want one more trusted piece.

3] The position players, the lineup, is where it gets more interesting to a degree. It's not hard to say PRIORITY ONE is adding a SP. And not hard to "ask/beg" for ONE more proven arm to increase depth. But how do you improve the position player/lineup and depth? Again, I agree it's probably a mistake to stay status quo.

I think we all realize how well Solano played and contributed overall. Despite some bad slumps, he had some key moments. And he filled in here and there best he could defensively. But he's not part of tomorrow. And Taylor might not be as well. No question he's an OUTSTANDING CF. He provided some speed...that might have presented itself better had he not had some nagging injuries...as well as some power. He also was part of some small ball plays that turned out well. He wouldn't be a bad re-sign as Buxton insurance. 

And that's where the rubber meets the road. 

There is NO WAY to build the positional part of 2024 without discussing Byron. It's not ALL on him. There are many factors, including the development of the prospects, but the truth is no Gallo or flailing Buxton made the 2nd half offense better.

Wallner has developed and produced at every level. So has Julien. So has Lewis. I think it's an incomplete arguement at best to say anyone doesn't expect their production to continue and grow. So we should change direction after pleading for them to get a shot, get it, and now dismiss their talent and potential for a different addition?

I believe any logical compilation of the 2024 roster should exclude Buxton. You just HAVE to assume anything from ZERO to 120 games split between CF and DH. Is Taylor being brought back as an option on the cheap side? Or do you assume he can't be similar to the player/producer he was in 2023, or just can't spend the $5-7M it will take to keep him and turn to Castro and the maybe not quite ready, but maybe Martin?

Kirilloff IS the 1B with a world of  potential still in front of him if his shoulder is OK. With his wrist situation FINALLY fixed, he was the best hitter for the Twins for a couple of months before he dove for a ball and messed his shoulder up

DEPTH is Castro, maybe Farmer. Lee and Severino on the way, maybe even Prato.

I love the idea of advancing the offense. I agree with Riverbrian and Chpettit19 that the offense is a concern. But I struggle with the idea of who to add that makes sense.

I feel we are a bit stuck in talent and potential when it comes to offense.

I honestly believe that at 30yo, Kepler FINALLY realized good, hard contact was better than being perfect. I think Wallner is a better version of Gallo. He will always K a lot, but he will take walks. And he just seems to have an ability to adjust that i never saw Gallo do. Julien is a bat that has a great eye. He will K some due to extreme patience,  but SLAM whe he sees something. Lewis almost defies description as to how good he can be.

When he's ready, Lee will play 3B with Lewis moving to 2B. Possibly the opposite,  we'll see. Julien will play some 2B and 1B along with DH.

Eventually,  IF he keeps on his new trajectory,  Martin will be in CF. And CF, in the system is a bit weak.

There is projection for the 2024 lineup, and depth, to be considered and concerned. For instance, IF Farmer is not kept or traded, who's next in line? With Solano probably gone, does Miranda return to previous form? 

Martin, Severino, Prato, Castro, maybe Farmer kept, I can still see some depth. But where do the Twins 2024 Twins actuality ADD  someone with a powerful bat? Do they dismiss the return and potential of Kirilloff at 1B? 

Do they ignore the sudden improvement of Kepler or the potential of Wallner to add an OF?

How can we ask for the kids to play, see them do well, and then ask for additions?

Not a fan of a full time DH, unless they are special. And i just can't dismiss the 2nd half offense and what they did. But I can see the idea of a 1B or corner OF bat added. I get it. I'm just not who or what spot. 

I can't believe they are going to ignore Wallner at this point, or dismiss the new Kepler. So 1B and ignore AK? 

Guess, in the long run, a healthy roster says, to me, we've got a TON of potential offensively, with a healthy AK and CC IF AK turns out OK. If not, I'm 100% making a move.

 

 

 

[IndianaTwin]

10 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

the biggest issue with the FO for me this year was demoting Wallner and Julien, and not trusting them to play earlier (and more in Wallner's case). In fairness, Farmer was signed as a placeholder until Lewis took over SS when they thought CC was gone....and Castro was a good utility player, which you need. Vazquez? That was his worst hitting year in some time. If he had been normal for him, he's a great 2nd C, again, they didn't trust Jeffers enough to play him 90-100 games like a starter. No idea how much of that is the FO vs manager....

The refusal to play Wallner over Gallo after May was mind. boggling. 

(I’m responding to this one, but there are several posts that reference Gallo’s playing time, particularly later in the year. It’s also a common theme elsewhere that Gallo played a lot throughout the year. I realize that “a lot” is a relative term, but I don’t think it’s accurate.) 

 

Wallner came up for good July 17. He DHed his first two games and then gave Kepler a day off in right. From July 21 on, Gallo started two games in left. After Wallner came up, it was Luplow and Castro (and to a lesser extent, Larnach) who started in left when it wasn’t Wallner. Post all-star break, it was not Gallo that kept Wallner from getting at bats.

Gallo got 171 plate appearances after the first of June. He started 38 of their 106 games after the first of June, which is just over one game out of three. Nine of those starts were at 1b in a two-week stretch when Kirilloff first went on the IL. A primary reason Gallo got the number of starts he did was because of his defensive flexibility. He was the only player on the team to start at least six games at four different defensive positions. (Castro started at five different positions, but only twice at short and once in right. Unless I missed someone, no one else started at more than three.)

He came in for defensive purposes quite a lot, but the perception that Gallo was anywhere close to a regular starter the last two-thirds of the season is not accurate.

You referenced Farmer as a placeholder. I think that’s what Gallo was — it’s just that because of his defensive versatility, he was holding the place for different people at different times. They rode him while he was hot, but they played him a lot less than people suggest over the final two-thirds.

[chpettit19]

13 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

If you think you can improve on Jeffers, I don't think you're realistic at all. Go look at the stats. Give me a name. Kepler? I'd replace him, I said they won't..... I'm trying to be realistic here.

You can choose not to believe in Wallner, but then you have to believe in someone else for some reason. 

It's easy to say, go get better players. It's hard to actually find those, be right, have them be healthy, available, and acquire them. The twins were actually quite good offensively once they installed Wallner and Lewis.....

Want to get rid of productive players with lots of control left? Good luck finding guys. 

You can't improve much on Jeffers as a catcher, you can improve on him as a top of a playoff order hitter (especially since he wasn't one this year). That is my point. Jeffers is not a top 4 in a playoff lineup hitter. He's wonderful as a 5-9 hole hitter, and that's great from a catcher. Really lengthens your lineup. I'm happy to have him. But this team needs guys like Altuve, Bregman, Alvarez, and Tucker. Or Schwarber, Turner, Harper, and Castellanos. The Twins need stars. Lewis is a high possibility guy if he can stay healthy. Julien has a shot if he can learn to hit lefties (you already know I don't like them platooning him), and cut down the Ks. Wallner's most realistic top level is a Gallo type slugger with high K rates, and high slugging. That's not the kind of guy you put in the top 4 of a playoff lineup. Maybe Lee and Jenkins can be those guys? Correa isn't that guy (wasn't that guy in Houston either). Kirilloff and Buxton can't stay healthy. Jeffers isn't that guy. Larnach isn't that guy. My entire argument is that they need to get guys who the other teams fear. Lewis is the only guy close to that at this point.

I understand it's hard to get better players. I said it's hard. Of course it's hard. But that doesn't mean the plan should be to stick with Kepler. It is realistic to improve on Kepler. Whether or not that's the plan is the question. They were quite good against terrible opponents. Were those 2 better than Gallo and Miranda? Of course. But their offense was still terrible in the playoffs outside of 1 game. They scored 3 or fewer runs in 4 of their 6 games. Wallner and Lewis started most of those games. My point is they have their regular season floor. They can compete in, and should win often, the central and make the playoffs. The next step is improving their odds at winning a WS. A big part of doing that is improving the top of the lineup.

Who are the "productive players with lots of control left" that I suggested getting rid of? I didn't suggest getting rid of any of their young hitters. I suggested moving them around defensively if needed. You said CF, DH, and 1B were the only places they could improve. I said I don't care about the defensive positions, we just need better bats. What's the point of having all this "positional flexibility" if you're going to turn around and say "we can't add any bats because they don't play the positions we have open?" This offense is not WS caliber. That's the next step they need to take. I don't know why that's controversial. 

[chpettit19]

12 hours ago, DocBauer said:

Where I'm confused is the idea of "adding" better players/talent to a team that actually did that last year DID THAT before and during the season. I mean, the 2nd half Twins played between a 92 and 96 win pace between some changes and young talent. And many of us were practically begging for the younger talent. And we got it. So are we saying we need to now replace the young talent we wanted to see with different talent? 

Their 2nd half schedule was a cake walk. They hardly played any winning teams. That also played a role in their success. 92 to 96 wins against mostly sub-.500 teams isn't that impressive. They still scored 3 or fewer runs in 4 of 6 playoff games, even with those changes and young talent.

There's plenty of spots on the roster outside of the young talent. I'd argue for 4 spots that could easily be filled by better talent. 2 OF spots, 1 IF spot, and DH. You could shift that DH spot to being 2 IF spots instead if you want Julien to DH, or even 3 OF spots with Wallner at DH. Lots of flexibility to fit in 4 new pieces. I don't think any of us expect them to fill those 4 spots with Soto, Ohtani, Acuna, and Harper through some magical combination of trades and signings that don't include moving any of our current MLB youngsters. 

Nobody is predicting anything like that, we're just saying that there are openings, and, while the floor may be nicely set, the ceiling leaves a lot to be desired. Replacing Gordon with Castro is all well and good, but it doesn't get us closer to the WS. Replacing Kirilloff with Severino doesn't get us closer to the WS. I won't speak for others, but my point is that outside help is needed. Lee, ERod, and Jenkins can maybe be stars, but not going out and finding more MLB pieces because of Severino, Prato, Hellman, Kiersey, Camargo, etc. type players is a strategy that would make me very cranky.

Maybe it turns out there never ends up being any real way to improve the ceiling this offseason. So be it. But that should be the plan. I fully expect a Solano type signing, Farmer to be tendered, and them to look at another Gallo type pillow deal for someone. I will not be satisfied with that. The aim needs to be higher. The standards need to be raised. We have some fun young talent now, but there's still holes, and even that young talent has some huge question marks.

And I don't think you can count on Buxton or Kirilloff at all. At this point you need to build your team like they aren't even on it. If they stay healthy and reach their peak it's a good problem to have. But not bringing in top guys because they might finally stay healthy would be a mistake. I think you can, and should, completely ignore them when it comes to team building. This org spreads their ABs around so much anyways I don't see the harm in ignoring them. Everyone gets ABs. Correa was the only qualified hitter they had this year. There's ABs to be had.

[Riverbrian]

7 hours ago, IndianaTwin said:

(I’m responding to this one, but there are several posts that reference Gallo’s playing time, particularly later in the year. It’s also a common theme elsewhere that Gallo played a lot throughout the year. I realize that “a lot” is a relative term, but I don’t think it’s accurate.) 

 

Wallner came up for good July 17. He DHed his first two games and then gave Kepler a day off in right. From July 21 on, Gallo started two games in left. After Wallner came up, it was Luplow and Castro (and to a lesser extent, Larnach) who started in left when it wasn’t Wallner. Post all-star break, it was not Gallo that kept Wallner from getting at bats.

Gallo got 171 plate appearances after the first of June. He started 38 of their 106 games after the first of June, which is just over one game out of three. Nine of those starts were at 1b in a two-week stretch when Kirilloff first went on the IL. A primary reason Gallo got the number of starts he did was because of his defensive flexibility. He was the only player on the team to start at least six games at four different defensive positions. (Castro started at five different positions, but only twice at short and once in right. Unless I missed someone, no one else started at more than three.)

He came in for defensive purposes quite a lot, but the perception that Gallo was anywhere close to a regular starter the last two-thirds of the season is not accurate.

You referenced Farmer as a placeholder. I think that’s what Gallo was — it’s just that because of his defensive versatility, he was holding the place for different people at different times. They rode him while he was hot, but they played him a lot less than people suggest over the final two-thirds.

I agree with you. I think the Twins did a good job of playing the players who were performing the best post all-star break. 

Gallo's opportunities dropped significantly as you accurately point out and they should have based on what he was producing.

His numbers were clearly reduced but still yet not enough and the roster spot should have been cleared.  

His numbers were not placeholder worthy. His numbers were not depth worthy.

His numbers were off the roster so anybody else can be on it worthy. 

[Major League Ready]

23 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

The lack of depth cost us in 2022... Having depth saved us in 2023. 

With depth obvious for all to see in 2024. Now it's about taking the talent level up a notch at the upper end. 

You pull from the bottom and add at the top but you keep that depth at all costs.  

I don't want to rearrange similar pieces. Changing the names of your depth doesn't improve the club. IMO... This off-season should be about adding difference makers.  

This is impossible to argue with ... It's a universal truth that could be said for nearly every team or perhaps even every team in MLB.  The question of course is how.  Do they (should they) add another superstar free agent.  At $30M they would have $100M invested on 4 players for a lot of years.   Do we see this model successful elsewhere.

What have other teams done.  Houston drafted/developed extremely well and then extended dome of their players.  They have continued to be successful.  Their international drafting has been exceptional.    Their most impactful trade was for Yodan Alverez who was 18 years old at the time.  Yanier Diaz was also acquired as a prospect.  Chas McCormick was a 21st round pick. Their big free agent acquisition among position players (Jose Abreau) produced below replacement value.  They built a team by developing young talent.

The Rangers signed a couple super stars but they were not good until a couple young guys came along and provided them exactly what you describe.  Heim, Garcia and Dunning were unheralded players when they were acquired.  They were older prospects which is generally looked down upon here.  

I believe Mike is on the right track in that our primary position players are established for the most part and we had one of the better offensive teams after the AS break.  A best shot is that the young guys continue to get better and players like Lee / Martin and eventually Jenkins take us up a notch.   This is not to say that a creative trade can't be made to bring in an impact bat.  

I think the most impactful thing they can do this off-season is find the money to replace Gray and put Varland in the BP.  A BP of Duran / Jax / Stewart / Varland / Thielbar / Funderburk and resign Pagan looks pretty darn good.  Lopez and a free agent on the top with Paddack / Ryan and Ober is also good.

 

[Fire Dan Gladden]

22 hours ago, DFlow said:

Depth is great but it doesn’t win in October pitching wise. The Twins for the first time in 17 years came in with a frontline starter into the playoffs who can matchup against other teams starters (they had two). Shocker- they won playoff games. The Twins will need to acquire or buy another frontline starter this offseason with Gray departing at minimum.

Depth is great for finances and winning in the regular season. Constantly being able to churn out competent back of the rotation starters is very valuable for winning consistently because you can invest your money on frontline pitching. Guys like Ryan, Ober, and Varland make life a lot easier on minimum deals so you can drop 20+ on Pablo and another 20+ on another top guy. 

If we can magically learn how to churn out one homegrown frontline starter, we will be major contenders.
 

 

I have said this before and I will say it again:

I do not know how you can chastise this FO for how they have handled pitching.  Year after year the minors have gotten deeper in pitching prospects and year after year the big league team has improved to the point of this year being elite.

Every team wants to churn out #1 Aces every year, but that just does not happen.  Baseball is lucky to see 1-2 Aces per year as a whole.  Gotta be realistic here.

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

This is impossible to argue with ... It's a universal truth that could be said for nearly every team or perhaps even every team in MLB.  The question of course is how.  Do they (should they) add another superstar free agent.  At $30M they would have $100M invested on 4 players for a lot of years.   Do we see this model successful elsewhere.

What have other teams done.  Houston drafted/developed extremely well and then extended dome of their players.  They have continued to be successful.  Their international drafting has been exceptional.    Their most impactful trade was for Yodan Alverez who was 18 years old at the time.  Yanier Diaz was also acquired as a prospect.  Chas McCormick was a 21st round pick. Their big free agent acquisition among position players (Jose Abreau) produced below replacement value.  They built a team by developing young talent.

The Rangers signed a couple super stars but they were not good until a couple young guys came along and provided them exactly what you describe.  Heim, Garcia and Dunning were unheralded players when they were acquired.  They were older prospects which is generally looked down upon here.  

I believe Mike is on the right track in that our primary position players are established for the most part and we had one of the better offensive teams after the AS break.  A best shot is that the young guys continue to get better and players like Lee / Martin and eventually Jenkins take us up a notch.   This is not to say that a creative trade can't be made to bring in an impact bat.  

I think the most impactful thing they can do this off-season is find the money to replace Gray and put Varland in the BP.  A BP of Duran / Jax / Stewart / Varland / Thielbar / Funderburk and resign Pagan looks pretty darn good.  Lopez and a free agent on the top with Paddack / Ryan and Ober is also good.

 

I agree with you... I am impossible to argue with. 😄

How do they add impact players? That's a real good question and also impossible for me to answer... especially when you consider that they haven't offered me a job so I have access to the information, budget and other considerations. I have no idea why they haven't called me but perhaps they believe they already got people in place. 

The only thing I can say is that it's been done before and this is what the front office is paid to do. So good luck to them... I'm pulling for em'. 

Teams are built in different ways as you point out. It's exactly what I meant in response to Sixel. You sign, trade for, shift position or develop impact players to find your impact players. All paths available to a front office require luck. 

I'm not a big believer in mid-range free agents because while some of them work out as expected and sometimes exceed expectation... others... too many actually just cling to the hull of your roster like Zebra mussels or Milfoil. In the end... I'd rather have the young player with options who can be sent down to the minors when they perform like they should be sent down to the minors. If you go this route... you got to show that you are willing to cut bait when it doesn't work like the Cubs did with Hosmer and Mancini.  

The top end free agent's are expensive. Can the Twins afford another one? In theory they can if... they are able to roster enough cheap minimum wage talent like Julien and Lewis. This requires letting the young players do it. It requires throwing the Gallo's and Haniger's and Hosmer's away so the younger player can do it. It requires not settling for average performance and saying Eureka... we found that every day guy we can stop looking now. When one of those real expensive free agents fail and they do fail from time to time... it is catastrophic to a team like the Twins with budget limitations. Anthony Rendon isn't a Zebra Mussel... he's a Gilligan's Island type hole in the side of your boat.     

I remember last off-season... I was on this website as an advocate of signing Mitch Haniger. Boy was I wrong. He wasn't healthy and his numbers when healthy were horrible. The Giants agreed with me at the time and they signed their version of Gallo for 3 years and 43 million. No matter how talented Farhan Zaida is... Front offices make these types of mistakes all the time. The key is to not double down on the mistake. It is bad enough to blow the money because money is not limitless... However... it's way worse to blow the money AND let the player take your Wins and Losses into the L category.     

Trading for one... that's hard to do because nobody wants to give up an impact player unless you pay for it. Those prices could compromise your future and we are talking about a future with minimum wage talent getting the job done allowing you to add more expensive pieces. Development is always going to be the most important thing any organization can do and that includes the BIG budget teams that will be trying to land Ohtani this off-season. Twinsdaily would get real noisy if the Twins traded Brooks Lee or Walter Jenkins for a today impact player.    

It's easy for me to say... Trade Farmer to the Rays for Arozarena. The Rays may not like that deal. 

It's easy for me to say... Sign Blake Snell. Blake Snell has a say in the matter and the other 29 teams have a say.  

It's also easy for me to say and I've said it... We got our depth for 2024 and that is where you start... it's critical to have the kind of depth we have... Things are good. Now to get better... Shop Higher end... no more Bundy's or Gallo's that just get in the way.

This is where we are at as an organization and it feels good to be here.  

In the end... I've just typed a lot of words in order to not answer your question. 😎

 

[Fatbat]

Raising the ceiling.

1. Buy another ace SP

2. Bring up Martin and Lee to get on base and score runs. 
 

by incorporating more young studs with low salaries allows the FO to buy that guy up top in #1.  
Eventually our farm system will produce another ace SP. right now Varland has a shot at it. He has the heat. If he can hone a devastating offspeed combo, he could be the guy.  
 

This post is my fav in quite awhile! Great insight from everyone!!

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

This is impossible to argue with ... It's a universal truth that could be said for nearly every team or perhaps even every team in MLB.  The question of course is how.  Do they (should they) add another superstar free agent.  At $30M they would have $100M invested on 4 players for a lot of years.   Do we see this model successful elsewhere.

What have other teams done.  Houston drafted/developed extremely well and then extended dome of their players.  They have continued to be successful.  Their international drafting has been exceptional.    Their most impactful trade was for Yodan Alverez who was 18 years old at the time.  Yanier Diaz was also acquired as a prospect.  Chas McCormick was a 21st round pick. Their big free agent acquisition among position players (Jose Abreau) produced below replacement value.  They built a team by developing young talent.

The Rangers signed a couple super stars but they were not good until a couple young guys came along and provided them exactly what you describe.  Heim, Garcia and Dunning were unheralded players when they were acquired.  They were older prospects which is generally looked down upon here.  

I believe Mike is on the right track in that our primary position players are established for the most part and we had one of the better offensive teams after the AS break.  A best shot is that the young guys continue to get better and players like Lee / Martin and eventually Jenkins take us up a notch.   This is not to say that a creative trade can't be made to bring in an impact bat.  

I think the most impactful thing they can do this off-season is find the money to replace Gray and put Varland in the BP.  A BP of Duran / Jax / Stewart / Varland / Thielbar / Funderburk and resign Pagan looks pretty darn good.  Lopez and a free agent on the top with Paddack / Ryan and Ober is also good.

 

Developing them is always the best way to have top talent on your major league roster. But on a year to year basis the answer can't be "well we plan to develop Jenkins into Larry Walker so we're good to go." Lee/Martin and Jenkins can't be your plan A for raising the 2024 ceiling. And we saw in the playoffs the primary position players weren't good enough. Of course you hope for continued growth from the youngsters, but do we expect Lewis to be much better than he was in the playoffs? Do we expect Julien to be better? Those guys pretty well maxed out the realistic expectations we should have for their postseason performance. Where else can we add talent for the 2024 team? That's the question.

The Twins have done the "develop" part of the plan, right? They have their young guys at, or on the doorstep to, the major league level now. They have the cheap talent. Now's the time to go get your Grienke, Verlander, Seager, Semien, Abreu (terrible regular season, but monster postseason so far) type guys. You absolutely need the young guys to come up and be key pieces, but Houston and Texas filled around those guys with stars. Dodgers developed guys then filled around them with Betts and Freeman type guys (HOFers). Philly developed Stotts, Bohm, Nola, etc. but filled around them with Schwarber, Harper, Castellanos, and Wheeler. Atlanta developed Acuna, Albies, Riley, and Strider types, but filled in around them with Morton, Murphy, Olson, Ozuna types. Dbacks developed Carroll, Thomas, and Perdomo types but brought in Marte, Pham, Moreno, Gurriel, and Gallen types. The Twins have done the develop part. Now it's time for the "bring in" part of the plan, in my opinion.

[IndianaTwin]

3 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I agree with you. I think the Twins did a good job of playing the players who were performing the best post all-star break. 

Gallo's opportunities dropped significantly as you accurately point out and they should have based on what he was producing.

His numbers were clearly reduced but still yet not enough and the roster spot should have been cleared.  

His numbers were not placeholder worthy. His numbers were not depth worthy.

His numbers were off the roster so anybody else can be on it worthy. 

I didn’t have strong feelings either way on Gallo. As you note, he was clearly not performing well. I’ll also note that many on the “dump Gallo” train were also on the “dump Kepler” train and the FO was right on that one.

(Many of these folks were also on the “dump Pagan” train, but that’s a different discussion. That discussion really only applies to this one in that the FO got two out of three right when it comes to the players who were consistently the biggest lightning rods for criticism. I tend to assume the FO is smarter than folks on TD (or at least me, anyway).) 

My primary point was to refute the false narrative of Gallo playing a ton, even after he was underperforming. Last year’s false narrative was the Rocco pulls pitchers too early, and we had to deal with that all off-season.