Guardians 5, Twins 3: We've Seen This Ending Before

[PuckettProtector]

This is solely on Baldelli and Pagan. We need to sweep this series to add padding for the 6 additional games that Cleveland has to play over us and, honestly the 5 that Chicago has. 

This was the time to play playoff baseball, next rest your core guys. It's frankly embarrassing. 

I get that the bullpen is weak, but would it kill us to have a guy pitch more than one inning? 

This great start to the season looks more and more like it is being pissed away because of this new age approach and an absolute void of killer instinct.  

 

[Rik19753]

These past 10 days have been some of the most unenjoyable regular season baseball that I've ever seen. It's just cruel how the team keeps us engaged for the whole game just to blow the lead in the end. This is just typical Minnesota sports and why we will never achieve anything when it matters most. Such a pathetic losing mentality.

 

I need a break from watching this. Let me know when they actually build a decent bullpen. At least then I can keep being delusional about the team actually achieving something in the playoffs.

[wsnydes]

56 minutes ago, SwainZag said:

Is it weird I'm not even that upset about today's game?  Last night was a huge gut punch.  They probably didn't even deserve to win today's game anyways.  Cleveland blew a thousand opportunities today.  Still sucks they couldn't find some way to find those last 6 outs though.

Is there anyone at AAA?  Sisk?  

The offense needs to find a way to avoid the multiple inning slumps.  You can't have a six inning stretch almost every night without making noise, it just doesn't lead to results.  

Edit: Thornburg's WPA was -.715.  Incredible.

I'm not really upset about it either.  I won't say that I expected it, but when I heard what the available relief corps was, I kinda saw it coming.  

[beckmt]

New relievers need to be here ASAP.  New strategy against the Twins.

1.  Run up pitch count against the starters.

2.  Stay close until the late innings.

3. expect bullpen explosion from the Twins.

4. Win the game. 

 

Until they change the makeup of the bullpen, it is this simple.

[BH67]

We again approach the line every Minnesota sports fan expects with unsettling frequency during an ugly slump: the demarcation between a normal explanation (total bullpen ineptitude beginning in the 8th inning) and a cosmic one (Drew Pearson, the blocked punt against Wisconsin in 2005, take your pick). 

[chpettit19]

6 minutes ago, PuckettProtector said:

This is solely on Baldelli and Pagan. We need to sweep this series to add padding for the 6 additional games that Cleveland has to play over us and, honestly the 5 that Chicago has. 

This was the time to play playoff baseball, next rest your core guys. It's frankly embarrassing. 

I get that the bullpen is weak, but would it kill us to have a guy pitch more than one inning? 

This great start to the season looks more and more like it is being pissed away because of this new age approach and an absolute void of killer instinct.  

 

Moran, Duffey, and Thornburg all threw more than 1 inning today. Duran threw 2 yesterday. Moran threw 2 in game 2 Tuesday. Cotton threw 2 Monday. Pagan threw more than 1 Sunday. So the only game this week they didn't have a reliever go more than 1 inning was game 1 Tuesday.

[darwin22]

55 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

There is almost 0 chance this will be the same bullpen tomorrow. Everyone is shot. An immediate sub that can be done is DFA Thornburg and add Ian Hamilton to the MLB team. Evan Sisk is Rule 5 eligible this offseason and probably worth a look to see if he needs a 40 man spot. I’m not exactly thrilled to see Cano or Minaya again, but desperate times call for desperate measures I suppose. 

Today.....I won't disagree with your comments as Hamilton, Cano and Minaya are short term options--until Falvey can make trades to acquire better arms.  None of those 3 should be considered a long term fix.

[BH67]

Note to Falvine: get a hacker into Brian Cashman's statistical files and snatch the multiple regression model he uses to get relief pitchers.  Yours has a negative correlation with success with 99 percent confidence.

[Fritzderkat]

The bullpen as the fatal flaw. Starting with the Rogers trade.

 

 

[jun]

Megill, Winder and Smith or Hamilton should take Pagan, Cotton and Thornburg's spot in the pen. Trade or release all three of them and get more help please.

[wsnydes]

55 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

That is on Falvey.

Yeah.  Molitor had a couple of guys like that too.  It drove me nuts then too.  Bullpen usage has evolved even in that short timeframe, but that only makes it worse.

[darwin22]

15 minutes ago, BH67 said:

We again approach the line every Minnesota sports fan expects with unsettling frequency during an ugly slump: the demarcation between a normal explanation (total bullpen ineptitude beginning in the 8th inning) and a cosmic one (Drew Pearson, the blocked punt against Wisconsin in 2005, take your pick). 

And just because I feel like kicking myself for being a lifelong Minnesota Twins and Vikings fan---lets not forget the following:

1.  1984 late season collapse against CLE blowing a 10-1 (close to that lead) to lose on a Jamie Quirk homerun.  Yes, that was the infamous doing of RD.   

2.  18 consecutive playoff losses by Twins.

3.   The Herschel Walker trade

4.  Gary Anderson's missed 38 yd chip shot FG in the NFC Championship in 1998 that would've given the Vikes a 10 pt lead with just over 2 minutes to play.

5.  Favre's--omg horrible INT late in the Saints playoff game that was lost in OT.

Many others I've not mentioned, but yes, being a Minnesota fan is nothing more than the inevitable crushing of your soul.

 

 

[h2oface]

Rogers and Graterol, eh?

Maybe not in June. Graterol is giving up the house this month for the Dodgers with a 5.14 ERA in 13 appearances with 1 blown save in 2 chances, and Rogers in 5.59 ERA (but 0.93 WHIP) for June in 10 outings with 2 blown saves out of 7 chances.

But make no mistake, I still would rather have those guys than all but Duran in the pen. They both had fine April and May's.

https://www.mlb.com/player/taylor-rogers-573124?stats=gamelogs-r-pitching-mlb&year=2022

https://www.mlb.com/player/brusdar-graterol-660813?stats=gamelogs-r-pitching-mlb&year=2022

 

I would have definitely re-signed Matt Wisler for several years, too, instead of just letting him walk. That was a no brainer and  affordable, and he has continued his success in Tampa.

https://www.mlb.com/player/matt-wisler-605538?season=2022&team=139&stats=gamelogs-r-pitching-mlb&year=2022

 

And the FO had David Robertson at 36 (now 37) years old, who pitched on the Silver Medal Olympic Team as an unsigned qualified player making his comeback from injury, available in March to sign for 3.5 million plus 1.5 in incentives. He has been killer on a bad Cubs team. They should make a deal for him now! NOW!!!!!

https://www.mlb.com/player/david-robertson-502085?stats=gamelogs-r-pitching-mlb&year=2022

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/cubs-david-robertson-signs-with-cubs/#:~:text=Robertson signed a one-year,team in as many seasons.

[Guest]

Winder needs to be up and back in the pen.  He won the job out of spring training as one of their best pitchers. How has that changed?

[SwainZag]

1 minute ago, Verified Member said:

Winder needs to be up and back in the pen.  He won the job out of spring training as one of their best pitchers. How has that changed?

He went to the IL at the end of May, started a few times in AAA, started last night and pitched very well.  I don't think anything has changed.

[h2oface]

I still like Thornburg for yesterday's game. He would have been great. It was the extra day of continued non-use that made him too rusty for today. 

It was his first rough up as a Twin after 8 perfect innings. 

[SwainZag]

13 minutes ago, h2oface said:

Rogers and Graterol, eh?

Maybe not in June. Graterol is giving up the house this month for the Dodgers with a 5.14 ERA in 13 appearances with 1 blown save in 2 chances, and Rogers in 5.59 ERA (but 0.93 WHIP) for June in 10 outings with 2 blown saves out of 7 chances.

But make no mistake, I still would rather have those guys than all but Duran in the pen. They both had fine April and May's.

https://www.mlb.com/player/taylor-rogers-573124?stats=gamelogs-r-pitching-mlb&year=2022

https://www.mlb.com/player/brusdar-graterol-660813?stats=gamelogs-r-pitching-mlb&year=2022

 

I would have definitely re-signed Matt Wisler for several years, too, instead of just letting him walk. That was a no brainer and  affordable, and he has continued his success in Tampa.

https://www.mlb.com/player/matt-wisler-605538?season=2022&team=139&stats=gamelogs-r-pitching-mlb&year=2022

 

And the FO had David Robertson at 36 (now 37) years old, who pitched on the Silver Medal Olympic Team as an unsigned qualified player making his comeback from injury, available in March to sign for 3.5 million plus 1.5 in incentives. He has been killer on a bad Cubs team. They should make a deal for him now! NOW!!!!!

https://www.mlb.com/player/david-robertson-502085?stats=gamelogs-r-pitching-mlb&year=2022

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/cubs-david-robertson-signs-with-cubs/#:~:text=Robertson signed a one-year,team in as many seasons.

To be fair, Robertson hadn't pitching effectively since 2018.  He pitched 18 innings total in the 3 years of 2019-2021.  He has pitched well in 29 innings with the Cubs, but that's $3.5M is a pretty decent sized gamble on a guy who hasn't been effect since '18.

[SwainZag]

1 minute ago, h2oface said:

I still like Thornburg for yesterday's game. He would have been great. It was the extra day of continued non-use that made him too rusty for today. 

It was his first rough up as a Twin after 8 perfect innings. 

There's no way you are saying that with a straight face

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, SwainZag said:

He went to the IL at the end of May, started a few times in AAA, started last night and pitched very well.  I don't think anything has changed.

Transactions show he was optioned to AAA on June 29.  Bring him back.

[h2oface]

14 minutes ago, SwainZag said:

To be fair, Robertson hadn't pitching effectively since 2018.  He pitched 18 innings total in the 3 years of 2019-2021.  He has pitched well in 29 innings with the Cubs, but that's $3.5M is a pretty decent sized gamble on a guy who hasn't been effect since '18.

To be fair, they missed it. The pitching identifiers missed the guy. Right. All factors to evaluate. He was there for the picking. There will always be those guys that most miss (Mike Trout), but that is what their job is. To make the right decisions. Robertson was a cheap risk if Bundy and Archer was, and that is what was said about their contracts that are comparable or more.

All that aside, he is on the Cubs, and he is available for sure now. Get him before someone else does. He looks past his injuries, and has been a proven winner for several seasons in the past. Too bad he wasn't gotten for only cash.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/cubs/ct-chicago-cubs-david-robertson-comeback-20220502-735zio6bzrasvjusplk3pv6iay-story.html

[Otto von Ballpark]

22 minutes ago, h2oface said:

Graterol is giving up the house this month for the Dodgers with a 5.14 ERA in 13 appearances with 1 blown save in 2 chances,

Saves vs blown saves don’t really work to evaluate setup guys, because blown holds count as blown saves but successful holds don’t count for anything (except as holds).

So more accurately, Graterol is 4-for-5 in save/hold opportunities this month, although he isn’t pitching that great overall.

[Game7-91]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

Help Wanted - We are looking for 3 bullpen specialists able to start immediately.

Qualified candidates must be able to:

* Travel extensively 6 possibly 7 months over the course of year. Passport required. Vaccination optional. 

* Pass random drug tests with the ability to read and understand the labels listing all substances contained in over the counter products. 

* Lift (and throw) objects roughly the size of a baseball. 

Candidate can be either right or left handed 

Minimum Salary is $600,000 Yearly

Health Insurance including dental and vision

401K

5 Months of PTO 

Sign-On Bonus of $35,000

Application can be found at: 1twinsway.com  

 

As luck would have it, I am dusting off my bi-lateral Ephus delivery, and dusting off the knuckleball. I could toss a mean knuckler in peewee whiffle ball league. And, I'm willing to negotiate down on the signon bonus.

Just need an agent rep....anybody on TD available?

[RpR]

IF, if there are any true knuckle-ball pitchers left i nthe league, the Twins could use him.

[Mike Sixel]

It should be clear that this isn't on the manager.  He has few options.  This is on the front office. Just amazing how bad the relief pitchers are.  

[insagt1]

Cleveland got 3 hits today...and 10 walks. When 1 hit was a 2 out walkoff HR you know life is not going right. Last 2 losses were just too horrible to watch . Twins announcer simply said...I'm going to puke. That's about right.

[h2oface]

1 hour ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

Saves vs blown saves don’t really work to evaluate setup guys, because blown holds count as blown saves but successful holds don’t count for anything (except as holds).

So more accurately, Graterol is 4-for-5 in save/hold opportunities this month, although he isn’t pitching that great overall.

....and the game against Atlanta, the Dodgers had just tied the game on a first pitch homer to lead of the inning by Will Smith in the top of the 8th, and Graterol, the heir apparent to Jansen, gets the bottom of the inning, and he gives up a first pitch lead off double and two pitches later a 2 run homer and lost the game 5-3 and that isn't in the short mention, either. (Former closer Kenley Jansen finished off the Dodgers in the top of the 9th with 3 Ks! Ha! Then blew the save the next day.......). No blown save, just a blown game and a loss. Sound familiar?

Back to the point..... Graterol has had a sketchy June. Confirmed.

(I don't make up the stats. It is still called a blown save, and everything counts).

[h2oface]

8 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

It should be clear that this isn't on the manager.  He has few options.  This is on the front office. Just amazing how bad the relief pitchers are.  

Once the game starts..... it is on the Manager, his past usage, and how he manages the game with what he has. A team effort.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, h2oface said:

Once the game starts..... it is on the Manager, his past usage, and how he manages the game with what he has. A team effort.

So if the players are bad, losses are on the manager for using them? The manager in Oakland is bad, because their record is bad, not because the players have the worst OBP in modern history? Unreal. 

[h2oface]

8 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

So if the players are bad, losses are on the manager for using them? The manager in Oakland is bad, because their record is bad, not because the players have the worst OBP in modern history? Unreal. 

Naaa. It is never how the game is managed, your are unreally correct.

As bad as our bullpen is, and it is horrible, I think we are not Oakland, and there is a bit more accountability, but you can have it your way. Baldelli is not responsible for his choices and timing et al during the game. All on the FO. Every bit of it. 

[Eephus]

Falvey and Levine should have to wear a gaudy gold chain that says Uff Da! on it until their get a couple pitchers. Uff Da!