Minor Leaguers and Minimum Wage

[nicksaviking]

https://www.twincities.com/2018/03/15/st-paul-saints-seek-minimum-wage-exemption-salary-cap-threatens-operations/

 

We've had a lot of discussion about how the minor leaguers often do not earn a livable wage. Wouldn't it be great if a minimum wage law by Minnesota forces the issue? I wouldn't want and wouldn't expect the Saints to fold, but they're the marquee team in the AA, make the league pay these players more.

 

Get the ball rolling and hopefully the bad press baseball gets for dragging it's feet carries over to the affiliated leagues which are bankrolled by actual billionaires.

[Guest]

Independent teams/leagues would seem to have a tougher time justifying an exemption based on "apprenticeship" than affiliated minor leagues would, it would seem.

 

Interesting twist, considering independent teams. The argument by MLB and its affiliates is tough enough to justify, but indy teams essentially just have, "because we don't want to."

[Shaitan]

Was building them a stadium not enough?

 

For the most part the Saints are great. I'm also not opposed to subsidies, but when a business asks for multiple handouts it bothers me.

 

This reminds me of Cossettas.

[Rosterman]

It kind of reminds me of my days doing summer stock. We worked our tails off to get a production up and running, often rehearsing 12-hour days (three 4-hour segments). But once the show was up, out time was pretty much our own as long as we hit curtian and still able to stand three hours later when the show ended. So we were basicallyworking 3-4 hours a nite...any other prep time was on our own. 40 years ago...got $100 a week. Yes, room and board included. But.......

[DocBauer]

https://www.twincities.com/2018/03/15/st-paul-saints-seek-minimum-wage-exemption-salary-cap-threatens-operations/

 

We've had a lot of discussion about how the minor leaguers often do not earn a livable wage. Wouldn't it be great if a minimum wage law by Minnesota forces the issue? I wouldn't want and wouldn't expect the Saints to fold, but they're the marquee team in the AA, make the league pay these players more.

 

Get the ball rolling and hopefully the bad press baseball gets for dragging it's feet carries over to the affiliated leagues which are bankrolled by actual billionaires.

Wouldn't it be amazing if the players and the players union...you know...the union that fights for player's rights and salaries...the same players who themselves came up through the minor leagues...would fight for better wages than currently exist?

[Platoon]

Wouldn't it be amazing if the players and the players union...you know...the union that fights for player's rights and salaries...the same players who themselves came up through the minor leagues...would fight for better wages than currently exist?

Theres a lot of jabs thrown at ownership for being greedy, and rightfully so. But the MLB players union has some fault here also. They seem/are more interested in protecting the established players at all costs. They forget where they came from and how hard it was to get there. They are a microism of the "we worked hard to make it, you can to" bunch. Sooner or later there is going to be some kind of correction to the agreement between owners and players. Strike? Who knows. But it's going to be hard to choose a side, if the players union doesn't start to focus on all the players.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Theres a lot of jabs thrown at ownership for being greedy, and rightfully so. But the MLB players union has some fault here also. They seem/are more interested in protecting the established players at all costs. They forget where they came from and how hard it was to get there. They are a microism of the "we worked hard to make it, you can to" bunch. Sooner or later there is going to be some kind of correction to the agreement between owners and players. Strike? Who knows. But it's going to be hard to choose a side, if the players union doesn't start to focus on all the players.

 

Given that the union argues for minor leaguers, who don't get a vote, I'm a bit surprised that the MLBPA hasn't been sued. 

[Major League Ready]

The MLBPA does not fight for better wages for MiLB players because it would come out of the MLB player’s pockets.  There is X amount of dollars available for player salaries. If Forbes is to be believed and I think that’s a credible source, the teams are spending those dollars except when they are in an obvious rebuild mode. There are players who individually make more than some of the teams every year. It cracks me up that the vast majority of fans put all the blame on the owners. Players and their agents have shown the players are out to get every dime they can get.  Yet, somehow it’s only the owners that are greedy.

 

It would be great if the owners came out and stated the want to REALLOCATE $1.5M/year to payroll for minor league players. The major league minimum would not change so the only players impacted would be those in arbitration or beyond. If the average pay is 4.4M, I would guess the average pay for this segment of players is at least $6M year. If on average 15 of the 25 players on MLB rosters are in this group it would cost those players 100,000 year of 1.66 percent of their salary.

 

MLB pays their players 10 what Japanese players make which is the next highest paid league and the average pay of MLB players has tripled (after being adjusted for inflation) in the past 20 years.  The player's association could have opted to include minor MiLB players in this tremendous increase in player wages and they chose not to do so. 

[ashbury]

It cracks me up that the vast majority of fans put all the blame on the owners. Players and their agents have shown the players are out to get every dime they can get.  Yet, somehow it’s only the owners that are greedy.

That's because, despite my penchant for playing armchair GM or owner, I'm willing to spend more of my green dollars to watch people throw, hit, and catch a baseball, than to watch someone optimize their balance sheet.

[Thrylos]

 

https://www.twincities.com/2018/03/15/st-paul-saints-seek-minimum-wage-exemption-salary-cap-threatens-operations/

 

We've had a lot of discussion about how the minor leaguers often do not earn a livable wage. Wouldn't it be great if a minimum wage law by Minnesota forces the issue?

 

I am not aware of any Minor League teams in Minnesota...

 

The Twins have MiLB teams in Dominican Republic, FL (2), TN (2), and NY.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think that even a national minimum wage can solve the issue, since it is a job that compensation is based on a contract that two parties agree to and sign.

 

To solve the issue the MLB (and the MLB-players association that unfortunately does not represent minor leaguers) need to agree in the next CBA on minor leaguer compensation.  But the MLBPA have "bigger" fish to fry and care only for the 10% of the players who make it to the majors.  The rest are on their own.

[Rosterman]

A healthy and viable minor league system increases interest in the game of baseball. One assumes that teams do pay the salaries of the 150+ players in development and the actual cost of running minor league teams (not owned outright by the majors) is the sole expense. I know the players do get a room/food allowance when on the road, but also covering some of the basic living expenses would also help (every team buy a motel and staff it, if nothing else). And then we also have the indie leagues, which pay even less, it seems. Yes, you don't overpay (although a percentage do get signing bonus money) because it is a weeding out process, especially the first two-three seasons. 

[Mike Sixel]

It's bad enough MLB is exempt from anti-trust laws, now Congress is about to pass a law exempting minor leagues from labor laws, basically.....

 

If this happens, and only MLB is asking for this, I'll stop watching and listening, other than maybe hte playoffs. It was nice talking to you all, but I can't support a business like this.

[Squirrel]

sigh

[Lefty74]

It is very hard to understand the MLB teams logic on this one. The total cost to give all their minor league players $1,000 more per month (currently lower level MILB players are paid $1,000-$1,400 per month based upon level and years in minors) is less than $1M a year. That would cover 175 MILB players for 5 months. Considering the amount of revenue MLB generates I would think they’d come up with $ to make this go away.

 

MLB players association, IMHO, also deserves a large share of the blame. They could force this to happen in labor negotiations. Again, it’s a pittance in comparison to MLB revenues and salaries. They all played in the minors but seem to have little regard for those who haven’t or won’t make it to MLB.

[Parker Hageman]

MLB is something else. 

 

https://twitter.com/lindseyadler/status/975566260749717504

 

https://twitter.com/bosoxholic/status/975580248275238912/photo/1

[Old Twins Cap]

US has the best government money can buy.

[D. Hocking]

I guess they are remaining true to their history,  They were not exactly generous with even the major league players until they were forced into it.  People might complain about how much the big league players ,make now, but if the people writing the checks had their way, the players would probably still need to get second jobs in the off season, be completely at the mercy of their team for the entirety of their career, and be desperate enough to be tempted to throw a world series.

[clutterheart]

 

It would be great if the owners came out and stated the want to REALLOCATE $1.5M/year to payroll for minor league players. The major league minimum would not change so the only players impacted would be those in arbitration or beyond. If the average pay is 4.4M, I would guess the average pay for this segment of players is at least $6M year. If on average 15 of the 25 players on MLB rosters are in this group it would cost those players 100,000 year of 1.66 percent of their salary.

 

 

I think the players would agree if the owners agreed to a minimum salary cap.  Players have been pushing for owners to open their books for a long time.    

 

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I guess they are remaining true to their history,  They were not exactly generous with even the major league players until they were forced into it.  People might complain about how much the big league players ,make now, but if the people writing the checks had their way, the players would probably still need to get second jobs in the off season, be completely at the mercy of their team for the entirety of their career, and be desperate enough to be tempted to throw a world series.

I second that. Some of these one-year contracts this season have a faint whiff of the old reserve clause system.

[bean5302]

Yeah, it's pretty abominable. Truly disgusting. MLB is basically trying to lobby congress for the exemption so they can avoid MiLB players having even have an opportunity to challenge the abusive pay structure.

 

https://www.abc15.com/newsy/mlb-could-reportedly-get-a-special-exemption-in-congress-spending-bill

[Guest]

The Washington Post reports today that an amendment giving MLB an exemption to labor laws will be attached to the spending bill that needs to pass this week to keep the government open.

 

The amendment has not been on any of the drafts to-date, so the intent obviously was to slip it in at the last minute and hope nobody noticed until it was done.

 

Assuming it passes, the wording will be interesting. If the exemption is ONLY applicable to MLB, it would presumably not help the Saints and other indy-ball teams.

[gunnarthor]

This seems like such a dumb policy for MLB. Baseball isn't as popular as football but they have this opportunity to grab all these young kids away from football because of the health concerns that football is creating. Baseball should want to pay these kids more. 

[Steve Lein]

 

MLB is something else. 

 

https://twitter.com/lindseyadler/status/975566260749717504

 

https://twitter.com/bosoxholic/status/975580248275238912/photo/1

 

Yeah, don't understand this stuff at all.

 

Why does it have to be that pay has to be doled out or compared in an 'hourly' way?  Give them a raise, pay them a salary (that is what they are paid, right?). They can be "exempt" employees right, so this isn't even a worry. 

 

Just give them enough money to live..

[Tomj14]

The question I have is what is the reason for the $115,000 cap.

Doing some estimates it seems the Saints as a team make lots of money and for them that number seems really, really low.

But is that a number the other teams couldn't go above to stay a float?

 

It would seem in that maybe some Revenue sharing would be in order, and they could double that number.

But then again, they could say screw it, shut the down the team and all they employ and invest that money somewhere else.

 

I will say this the Saints communication depart did a better job then most others. Basically saying it isn't that we are cheap it is were can't break the rules and get our shut down.

 

"So … if minimum wage and overtime laws were to impact us, then we may be in a position to not be able to abide by our league bylaws, which would force us not to be able to operate.”

[Mike Sixel]

 

The Washington Post reports today that an amendment giving MLB an exemption to labor laws will be attached to the spending bill that needs to pass this week to keep the government open.

 

The amendment has not been on any of the drafts to-date, so the intent obviously was to slip it in at the last minute and hope nobody noticed until it was done.

 

Assuming it passes, the wording will be interesting. If the exemption is ONLY applicable to MLB, it would presumably not help the Saints and other indy-ball teams.

 

As I posted in the other baseball forum, if this passes, I'm done watching or listening to regular season baseball....and might have to stop coming here also. Heck, even if it doesn't pass......they asked for this. Reprehensible behavior. Pure and utter greed, but hey, heavan forbid we pay the minor leaguers real money when the owners are struggling so much just to make their next billion.

[Tomj14]

 

It is very hard to understand the MLB teams logic on this one. The total cost to give all their minor league players $1,000 more per month (currently lower level MILB players are paid $1,000-$1,400 per month based upon level and years in minors) is less than $1M a year. That would cover 175 MILB players for 5 months. Considering the amount of revenue MLB generates I would think they’d come up with $ to make this go away.

MLB players association, IMHO, also deserves a large share of the blame. They could force this to happen in labor negotiations. Again, it’s a pittance in comparison to MLB revenues and salaries. They all played in the minors but seem to have little regard for those who haven’t or won’t make it to MLB.

I agree with your logic, I disagree with your math.

 

I am guessing with practice, games, traveling, meetings, workouts etc.. that a minor league puts in at least 60 hours.

At 15/per hour, the first 40 hours would be 600.

then the next 20 would be another 450, so 1050 a week * 4 = $4200 a month.

Which I believe would double the current average on a whole, it is like 4 times rookie league salary and about $1500 more that AAA depending on service years.

 

I would guess the twins have about 200-250 minor leaguers? So it would be closer to 2.5-3.0 million and that is just me guessing. Of course most teams piss that away on stupid major league contracts.

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

This seems like such a dumb policy for MLB. Baseball isn't as popular as football but they have this opportunity to grab all these young kids away from football because of the health concerns that football is creating. Baseball should want to pay these kids more. 

The best amateurs already get paid. This is more about minor league roster filler. As a rough example, MLB probably doesn't care if minor league rosters are filled with the actual #600-1200 ranked players each draft, or just any 600 guys ranked #600-2000. Especially with increasing numbers of international minor leaguers.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

The best amateurs already get paid. This is more about minor league roster filler. As a rough example, MLB probably doesn't care if minor league rosters are filled with the actual #600-1200 ranked players each draft, or just any 600 guys ranked #600-2000. Especially with increasing numbers of international minor leaguers.

There's the rub. There's no shortage of people who want to be minor league baseball players.

[Mike Sixel]

just noticed how I spelled heaven.....as heavan.....which is how I am spelling it in the books I'm writing! Fascinating probably only to me....

[Monkeypaws]

The whole situation is bass-ackwards.

 

Minor leaguers need the union, not the Major leaguers, i.e. the country club, whose per diems exceed minor league pay, and earn in a year what most folks slave away for until they are 65.

 

I'm gonna puke next time I hear a major leaguer go all Lech Walesa on us and talk about solidarity.

 

The owners are yet more odious, and deserve to lose at every stage, but really, it's millionaires fighting over the crumbs, each of which is a fortune. 

 

I used to see ballgames at the Met for $2. Harmon Killebrew used to sell cars in the off-season. The money in MLB is ridiculous. They are a great depression away from irrelevance.