The Twins Need to Trade Joe Ryan at the Deadline

[chpettit19]

8 minutes ago, karcherd said:

And Zoll also helped get Roden and Outman, not positions of need.  Your top baseball man has to present a plan to Tommy and convince him why it is the best path forward.  He then either accepts or rejects the plan.  

Outman is bad and should be cut. But Brock Stewart has thrown 5.2 innings for the Dodgers. The idea that they were getting anything besides a severely flawed player back for him is simply ridiculous.

The Twins have Kody Clemens and Ryan Kreidler playing CF and you want to argue that outfielders are not a position of need? It looks like Wallner is toast and Larnach is not going to be around much longer (they aren't extending him). Emma can't stay on the field and has used all 3 option years with likely 0 MLB PAs. Jenkins is hurt AGAIN. I'm no huge Roden fan, but he'd be in the majors playing regularly right now if he hadn't gotten hurt.

Not to mention that if your expectation is 100% wins on trades you're going to be disappointed in every person who has ever made a trade in professional sports. Outman for Stewart and half of the Varland trade being the only thing you can come up with out of the record setting number of deals they made last deadline should probably say something to you.

Tommy boy doesn't care about the baseball reasoning. The only thing the Pohlads care about at this point is money and maximizing it. Likely hoping to maximize their sale amount after the CBA is finalized. If Tom thinks the team is worth more with Joe Ryan on it, it doesn't matter what Zoll or anyone else says to him, Joe Ryan isn't getting traded.

[karcherd]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

Outman is bad and should be cut. But Brock Stewart has thrown 5.2 innings for the Dodgers. The idea that they were getting anything besides a severely flawed player back for him is simply ridiculous.

The Twins have Kody Clemens and Ryan Kreidler playing CF and you want to argue that outfielders are not a position of need? It looks like Wallner is toast and Larnach is not going to be around much longer (they aren't extending him). Emma can't stay on the field and has used all 3 option years with likely 0 MLB PAs. Jenkins is hurt AGAIN. I'm no huge Roden fan, but he'd be in the majors playing regularly right now if he hadn't gotten hurt.

Tommy boy doesn't care about the baseball reasoning. The only thing the Pohlads care about at this point is money and maximizing it. Likely hoping to maximize their sale amount after the CBA is finalized. If Tom thinks the team is worth more with Joe Ryan on it, it doesn't matter what Zoll or anyone else says to him, Joe Ryan isn't getting traded.

At the time the trades were made adding more LH corner OF's made no sense regardless of what you were giving up.  It shows a lack of plan and Zoll was part of that.  

We don't know what the Pohlad's truly care, about it is all speculation.  I get you may not like the Pohlad family and you have that right.  My point is the Pohlads need to put someone in charge and let them run the baseball side of the team, I don't want a hands on owner.  That started with Tommy's little brother and they have been more successful when they let McPhail and Ryan run the team.  The owners should be providing oversight but give their management team some latitude to do what they think is best for the team.

[chpettit19]

53 minutes ago, karcherd said:

At the time the trades were made adding more LH corner OF's made no sense regardless of what you were giving up.  It shows a lack of plan and Zoll was part of that.  

We don't know what the Pohlad's truly care, about it is all speculation.  I get you may not like the Pohlad family and you have that right.  My point is the Pohlads need to put someone in charge and let them run the baseball side of the team, I don't want a hands on owner.  That started with Tommy's little brother and they have been more successful when they let McPhail and Ryan run the team.  The owners should be providing oversight but give their management team some latitude to do what they think is best for the team.

Your argument is that it showed a lack of a plan because they didn't need LH corner OF's at the time but everything since then shows that they actually did need LH corner OF's. Or any OF really. That argument doesn't resonate with me. Sorry. The actuality of what has happened is that they did need Roden. 

And there's never any position that is log jammed, or blocked, or however you want to describe it. It feels like people's memories get wiped every season. There's no such thing as too much depth. Anywhere. Again, Roden would be playing RIGHT NOW if he wasn't hurt. He also plays 1B. The Twins could use a long-term 1B, right? I wouldn't put money on it being him, but he would've given them another option at least. 

The plan should always be to acquire talent. That is the only plan you need. Have more talent today than you did yesterday. I didn't love the deadline at the time either. But so far this year all of us who complained are being shown we were quite possibly very wrong. And again, you can name 2 guys out of 10 they brought in that you don't like. 80% feels like a pretty successful deadline. And since it's turned out they did need Roden, I think maybe it's not real smart to continue with the narrative that he was a bad target.

Tommy's little brother? You mean Joe? The guy who was never around and everything ever reported or talked about him is that he wasn't only not a hands-on owner, but was actually much closer to an absentee owner? I'm not a fan of the Pohlads, but I still have a relatively realistic view of them. You're arguing the opposite of reality.

[soyouresayingtheresachance]

My preference would be to extend Ryan for 4 or 5 years. As mentioned in the article, he is an Ace type pitcher. If we want to compete, we need dominant pitchers like Ryan. 

Based on what i read here on TD, we have a logjam of talent at AAA waiting to be called up. Roden, Erod, and Jenkins are currently injured,  but Culpepper is close. Fedko doesn't seem to have much left to prove at AAA, nor does Sabato. Gonzalez seems ready to, at minimum, be a solid platoon bat. Hendry Mendez has been great at AAA and will be ready for a call up soon. Ross is doing great since his call up too AAA, as has Olivar. Then there's still Roden, who has MLB experience. ERod who is ready but often injured, and Jenkins not far behind. 

When will we see these guys? Obviously not all will pan out at the MLB level, but I'd sure like to get a look at them. 

So, while I agree trading Ryan would get us a haul in return, when would we even see them play? Or would it be AA players or lower? If thats the case, hard pass for me. 

[Greglw3]

No way they get equitable value for s total stud like Ryan and no way they can use the excuse that they can’t afford him. Right, Tom Pohlad, we will do what it takes to compete? He’s the foundation of the team going forward. Extend him.

[Wedman13]

54 minutes ago, karcherd said:

And Zoll also helped get Roden and Outman, not positions of need.  Your top baseball man has to present a plan to Tommy and convince him why it is the best path forward.  He then either accepts or rejects the plan.  

The twins do not have the luxury of taking positions of need versus the best they feel available.   In the draft should they shy away from Cholowsy, Emerson, Lombard and LeBron because they have culpepper, Houston and Debarge?  No Lackey because they have Jeffers, Tait and Jimenez?  No Flora because they have Pablo, Joe, Taj, Abel, quick, Ellwanger and Soto?   so they take the Gio kid who is ranked like 15 at #3 because LH starting pitching is a bit thin across the organization?

Again, I hate the thought of trading Ryan, but if you do I believe you get the best talent possible, and if they all work (doubtful given the Twins) you have a great problem on your hands.  My opinion only.

[chpettit19]

10 minutes ago, Greglw3 said:

No way they get equitable value for s total stud like Ryan and no way they can use the excuse that they can’t afford him. Right, Tom Pohlad, we will do what it takes to compete? He’s the foundation of the team going forward. Extend him.

He turns 30 in 3 days. How long are you planning to build around him as the foundation? 35 year old Joe Ryan going to be worth the 30 mil you'll need to pay him? 

Joe is great. Its never fun moving on from talent like his. But building around a 30 year old pitcher who's never made it through and entire season dominant feels like a questionable decision. He most likely has 2 or 3 more years close to this level of performance. Doesn't feel like somebody you build around.

[Vanimal46]

4 hours ago, LA Vikes Fan said:

I don't think we should trade him for guys in A or even AA Ball unless the latter is someone who can skip AAA and come straight to the parent club.

How many guys do you think you eliminated in the graphic below by this criteria?

[Vanimal46]

The answer to the above is 8 out of MLB.com’s top 10 prospects not being eligible to players playing AAA or above baseball. I’d take any of these players for Joe Ryan right now. 

[USAFChief]

I wouldn't even wait till the deadline. Do it now. You'll get more.

And they absolutely should trade him.