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Posted
3 minutes ago, rdehring said:

 

Final question.  Haven't the Twins indicated both Prielipp and Rojas are starters?  Why are they included here?

I think they have.  They might not yet realize that their eventual home could be in the bullpen — or they aren’t ready to admit it.  

Unfortunately there is a “this guy is a failed starter” vibe to anyone in the bullpen, even if they are good bullpen arms.  While that is true, it’s not really fair.  Lots of relievers are worth more to their team than mediocre (or worse) starters.  They need to be celebrated for who they are, not who we wished they could be.  Duran and Jax are proof of that.   A huge percentage of position players are drafted as “shortstops”, and while most of them wind up at other positions, do we think of them as failed as well?  I think not. 

Verified Member
Posted
3 minutes ago, Muppet said:

This bullpen reminds me of a few years back when Emilio Pagan seemed to sour the entire 2023-4 bullpen. Seemed that everytime he pitched he blew a lead or walked 3 batters in a row. This year the bullpen is made up of all Pagans. Even if he has a good outing once in ahwile, his replacement is another Pagan. 

Let's hope the offence is somehow really really good this year. 

Oh no! A bullpen of all Pagans???!!! That would be like a bullpen of all Ron Davis’s!! I don’t think it’s that bad. I’m a great believer in ERA and at least Rogers, Chafin, Altavilla, Orze and Banda had quite solid ERAs last year. Two of the in the mid 2s and the other three in the low 3s. I think Pagan had an ERA upward of 6 the year you’re referring to, though he improved a lot the next year. I think Zebby Matthews could make a good addition since I think, for now, at least, Abel has earned a rotation spot. 1 air-it-out inning from Zebby 3 times a week could be a boost.

Posted
1 hour ago, Peter Gravett said:

I have to think Altavilla is going make the cut. No mention of Laweryson?

It's a question of roster math. Their 40-man is full and they're gonna need to make room for every new addition. I have a hard time seeing them carrying all of Hendriks, Chafin and Altavilla out of camp, especially if they're also needing to make room for Arcia on the position-player side.

As for Laweryson, he's in the depth picture but the fact they cut him last year after he pitched pretty well in a late-season audition sort of says it all to me.

Posted
36 minutes ago, rdehring said:

Final question.  Haven't the Twins indicated both Prielipp and Rojas are starters?  Why are they included here?

They might nominally be viewed as starters for now, but I believe the team realistically views both their futures being in the bullpen. They've openly hinted as much re: Prielipp. Big part of it is that in 8 combined pro seasons, neither has cracked 85 innings pitched.

Verified Member
Posted

There are a lot of other pitchers around the league with opt-outs. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see one of those pitchers end up in the Twins bullpen. If you're a veteran reliever looking for a big-league opportunity, the Twins bullpen looks like the easiest path.

Old-Timey Member
Posted
2 minutes ago, Nick Nelson said:

It's a question of roster math. Their 40-man is full and they're gonna need to make room for every new addition. I have a hard time seeing them carrying all of Hendriks, Chafin and Altavilla out of camp, especially if they're also needing to make room for Arcia on the position-player side.

As for Laweryson, he's in the depth picture but the fact they cut him last year after he pitched pretty well in a late-season audition sort of says it all to me.

Nick, my guy… There can’t possibly be a 40 man roster clog on a 90+ loss team. 

Verified Member
Posted
7 minutes ago, Nick Nelson said:

It's a question of roster math. Their 40-man is full and they're gonna need to make room for every new addition. I have a hard time seeing them carrying all of Hendriks, Chafin and Altavilla out of camp, especially if they're also needing to make room for Arcia on the position-player side.

As for Laweryson, he's in the depth picture but the fact they cut him last year after he pitched pretty well in a late-season audition sort of says it all to me.

It's now or never for Orze - he's 28. Travis Adams could be cut as well.

Jackson will free up one roster spot. He's not going to make the team.

Posted
39 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Nick, my guy… There can’t possibly be a 40 man roster clog on a 90+ loss team. 

Ha, I mean it's a fair point but how many pitchers are you comfortable cutting from this roster, especially when it's for stopgap veterans? Kent, sure. Adams maybe? I doubt they'll eat the money to cut Topa.

Posted
37 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Nick, my guy… There can’t possibly be a 40 man roster clog on a 90+ loss team. 

Thought the same thing reading that. Off the top of my head:

Alex Jackson

Ryan Kreidler

Tristan Gray

James Outman

That's 4 position players right there. I believe  Orze is on the 40 man and it doesn't sound like he has been all that impressive this spring so there's a 1 for 1 swap if the Twins can't possibly stomach losing any positional "talent." Travis Adams has been mentioned already. 

Twins Daily Contributor
Posted

Wanted to add my thanks to Nick Nelson for the series of position previews, including this one.

Well done, well written, the kind of depth you don't get elsewhere. Everything that makes TD great.

Hire more Nick Nelsons, please.

 

 

Posted
40 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

It's now or never for Orze - he's 28. Travis Adams could be cut as well.

Jackson will free up one roster spot. He's not going to make the team.

It's an interesting argument to say Orze and Adams are at the end of their ropes at 26/28 coming off their rookie seasons, with like 6 years of team control, when we're talking about replacing them with a 33-year-old minor league signing who's thrown 30 innings in an MLB season once, almost a decade ago. Is that really how a rebuilding team/bullpen should operate? 

Posted
55 minutes ago, Nick Nelson said:

It's a question of roster math. Their 40-man is full and they're gonna need to make room for every new addition. I have a hard time seeing them carrying all of Hendriks, Chafin and Altavilla out of camp, especially if they're also needing to make room for Arcia on the position-player side.

Yeah, this kind of roster manipulation always is intriguing to me. I think it is legitimate to expect three, four and even five non-roster guys added to the Opening Day roster, which would mean subtractions from the current 40-man. Opt-outs and options matter and traditionally the Twins have used options rather than lose out-of-options guys. But, there are three guys who have opt-outs who most likely would be lost if they don't make the Opening Day roster, and then add in guys like Altavilla.

Yes, there are guys who could/will be cut loose. Outman is out of options as is Jackson. Adams, Kent and maybe Topa could be subtracted. Other possibilities are DFAing guys with options like Kreidler and Gray or trading someone on the 40-man for a prospect or two. From the outside, it looks like a jumbled mess and maybe it is.

Maybe the 60-day IL will be used for Festa since he's way behind and might not be able to pitch until May.  

Verified Member
Posted
2 minutes ago, Nick Nelson said:

It's an interesting argument to say Orze and Adams are at the end of their ropes at 26/28 coming off their rookie seasons, with like 6 years of team control, when we're talking about replacing them with a 33-year-old minor league signing who's thrown 30 innings in an MLB season once, almost a decade ago. Is that really how a rebuilding team/bullpen should operate? 

A rebuilding team should operate WAY differently than the way the Twins have operated this offseason. They haven't made any decisions as if they're a rebuilding team.

Posted
9 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

A rebuilding team should operate WAY differently than the way the Twins have operated this offseason. They haven't made any decisions as if they're a rebuilding team.

No argument there but at some point they have to start. I'm hoping that as some of the leadership shifts settle in, we'll see more of a defined and consistent direction.

Old-Timey Member
Posted
23 minutes ago, Nick Nelson said:

Ha, I mean it's a fair point but how many pitchers are you comfortable cutting from this roster, especially when it's for stopgap veterans? Kent, sure. Adams maybe? I doubt they'll eat the money to cut Topa.

I wouldn't lose any sleep on the 2 names you mentioned. Do Orze or Klein really have a chance at being something better than marginal? 

Verified Member
Posted
1 hour ago, Greglw3 said:

Oh no! A bullpen of all Pagans???!!! That would be like a bullpen of all Ron Davis’s!! I don’t think it’s that bad. I’m a great believer in ERA and at least Rogers, Chafin, Altavilla, Orze and Banda had quite solid ERAs last year. Two of the in the mid 2s and the other three in the low 3s. I think Pagan had an ERA upward of 6 the year you’re referring to, though he improved a lot the next year. I think Zebby Matthews could make a good addition since I think, for now, at least, Abel has earned a rotation spot. 1 air-it-out inning from Zebby 3 times a week could be a boost.

The second year I’m thinking of Pagan had an ERA just south of 3, but it was closer to 6 at the all star break. 
 

Yes to ERAs, but they might go up with horrible defense behind the pitchers. 

Posted

Who is willing to spend money to watch this team. Being thousands of miles from MN, we travel annually to attend a game(s) and yearly subscribe to watch, but not this year!  I cannot support management's dismantling the financial and personnel structure these past three yrs. A salary cap or something similar to create some semblance of parity is desperately needed to save this sport. Sorry for the negativity!

Verified Member
Posted
5 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Bailey Ober is "crafty".

Better hope he is!

Otherwise he's a 5+ERA, low inning repeat from last year..  I'm hoping for crafty, 'cuz crappy is only two letters away. 

Posted
3 hours ago, Nick Nelson said:

It's a question of roster math. Their 40-man is full and they're gonna need to make room for every new addition. I have a hard time seeing them carrying all of Hendriks, Chafin and Altavilla out of camp, especially if they're also needing to make room for Arcia on the position-player side.

As for Laweryson, he's in the depth picture but the fact they cut him last year after he pitched pretty well in a late-season audition sort of says it all to me.

Thanks for chiming in Nick.

Old-Timey Member
Posted

Okay we pair this pen with underperforming Ober and a group of young pitchers all with ERAs over 5 - looks like a powerful mix to me. 

Posted
10 hours ago, The Great Hambino said:

Also: must one be a veteran in order to be crafty?  Are there any crafty rookies?

For all the offseason reliever additions, there still isn't a single reliever on the roster that I'd count on belonging in the top three of a good bullpen at this point in their careers.

Some of the (I guess non-crafty) youngsters might get there eventually, but in the meantime, this is gonna be rough.

What a crafty post.

To the larger conversation on this thread:

Asks Russian GIF

Old-Timey Member
Posted

I really hate the "Well, if I had been in charge of the team earlier and the entire ownership situation had been settled earlier, we would have been able to address things differently" paraphrasing Tom Pohlad. THEY created the mess!

Obviously, the pen is a mess. I'm as worried as anyone about how bad it might be. I have a sliver of HOPE, but I'm not sure I should.

Hendricks is obviously not what he once was. I've been hoping for about 85-90% of what he was previously. He hasn't looked good, he hasn't looked terrible. He seems healthy. He's been throwing 94-95. Over the next couple of weeks can he raise that just a couple mph? If he can, we might get that 85-90%. And with his savy, maybe that's enough to be "decent".

Rogers also isn't what he was. But he was having a solid year with the Cubs before his trade to the Reds. If he has enough "stuff" left to go along with experience, he has a chance to be "decent".

Those aren't glowing HOPES, but "decent" is a hell of a lot better than lousy.

Two of Banda, Chaffin, and Funderburk can at least allow some middle inning matchups that can be solid/decent.

MORE of the Sands from 2024 and less of Sands in 2025 will make me feel a lot better.

Topa has me worried. I guess he's healthy and his velocity is good. Has he just been tinkering and trying stuff? Because his camp has been horrendous. I guess his last couple of appearances have been better. Ramping up maybe? I sure hope that's it. But I don't want him anywhere the 8th inning. 

I know this sounds crazy optimistic, but I'm a little encouraged by Kent and Altavilla. They're both a little older, and don't have long track records, but they seem to have velocity and K ability. Could they be right time, place, and opportunity to settle as a couple power arms that might be...here's that word again..."decent"?

Plainly, it sucks to ask for a "decent" bullpen instead of a GOOD one. But again, I'd take decent vs lousy.

I've got some additional HOPE for later in the season where we might see a healthy Festa, and a transitioned Raya, and Lewis (also healthy), and Klein. I'm not so certain Klein isn't a viable backstop end SP option. But he's behind other arms and I think he might be a really good, hard throwing, multiple offering, solid K guy that might follow the Jax and Varland path in the pen. And even if it's temporary to limit IP and gain ML experience, Prielipp might be a later season option. (I also think CJ Culpepper is eventually headed to the pen, but not immediately).

I know the whole mantra of "crap in one hand and wish on the other and see which one gets filled first". But I DO see some potential arms that might debut later in the season to help build a better pen for 2027 and beyond. I'm just hoping for a "decent" pen before any of them arrive to not destroy the 2026 season before it starts.

I'm not exactly optimistic, but, I can at least see reasons to have HOPE.

Posted

This can lead to something really dangerous.  The Twins, to stop the bleeding, could take a starting pitcher with real starting abilities (who might be struggling this moment) and put him in the bullpen.  If successful, they've just bullpened a real starting pitcher.

If Zebby is put in the bullpen, then you truly know the Twins have no idea what they're doing.

Posted
16 hours ago, Nick Nelson said:

I doubt they'll eat the money to cut Topa.

Probably not, but it's not a huge amount of money and they need to consider doing it to free up a roster spot for a more effective pitcher. Topa sure hasn't impressed yet this spring. 

Posted
8 hours ago, DocBauer said:

Topa has me worried. I guess he's healthy and his velocity is good. Has he just been tinkering and trying stuff? Because his camp has been horrendous. I guess his last couple of appearances have been better. Ramping up maybe? I sure hope that's it. But I don't want him anywhere the 8th inning. 

I know this sounds crazy optimistic, but I'm a little encouraged by Kent and Altavilla.

I'm with you; worried about Topa and encouraged somewhat by Altavilla and Kent. But who is best to open the season in the bullpen? I leave that up to the coaches and the manager. Gotta hold out hope that a few of these arms hold up and can give us good results. But like most everyone else on here, I'm more than a bit wary. 

Old-Timey Member
Posted
23 hours ago, Nick Nelson said:

There's a reason Rogers, Hendriks and Chafin were available late in the offseason on minor-league contracts or very cheap MLB deals. There's also a reason Orze was acquired in a low-wattage trade, and Banda and Zak Kent were essentially waiver claims. These are not in-demand pitchers. They are not viewed around the league as likely to make substantial positive impacts. Those are just the undeniable facts. Everyone's aware of what these guys have done in the past.

When I look at this bullpen... This paragraph of yours is exactly what I see. 

Now... years of watching baseball has taught me that anything can happen... I do recognize the possibility that the unit may perform OK in comparison with their peers.

However... the odds are just stacked against the mere possibility that they perform OK.

There is absolutely nothing on the top end. I honestly don't care about the closer or set up roles but... who would qualify out of these options for those roles... if I did care. The bullpen lacks simple velocity... it will have to crafty itself to OK-ness. 

And in my mind... in even worse bullpen news. With 35 year olds leading the bullpen. This bullpen will learn nothing that will help us build a better bullpen in 2027. 

I hope for OK-Ness. It's the best that I can hope for. 

 

 

Posted
19 hours ago, Muppet said:

This bullpen reminds me of a few years back when Emilio Pagan seemed to sour the entire 2023-4 bullpen. Seemed that everytime he pitched he blew a lead or walked 3 batters in a row. This year the bullpen is made up of all Pagans. Even if he has a good outing once in ahwile, his replacement is another Pagan. 

Let's hope the offence is somehow really really good this year. 

This is a GREAT meme!  Call the bullpen the pagans!

I would go to more games if the Twins had a bullpen of pagans.  Can you imagine what they would be doing out there?  Start a fire, get some drums, burn some effigies, roasted meat -- wow, that would be so cool.

Verified Member
Posted
1 hour ago, Old Twins Hat said:

This is a GREAT meme!  Call the bullpen the pagans!

I would go to more games if the Twins had a bullpen of pagans.  Can you imagine what they would be doing out there?  Start a fire, get some drums, burn some effigies, roasted meat -- wow, that would be so cool.

Pagán. There. Fixed it. A gimmick would be helpful to make the games more interesting though. 

Posted
19 hours ago, DJL44 said:

A rebuilding team should operate WAY differently than the way the Twins have operated this offseason. They haven't made any decisions as if they're a rebuilding team.

When Tom Pohlad took over, he made it quite clear he rejected the idea of rebuilding.  He clearly stated that we had to be a contender this year.  Never mind that we were rated in the bottom tier of the league and never mind he was unwilling to spend.  We just have to.  I mean it sounds like a ranting teenager.  The Pohlad's were never the solution but making a 180 in the middle of a rebuild demonstrates a considerably higher level of incompetence.  

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