Is Harrison Bader Precisely the Wrong Player for the Twins Right Now?

[Senior Softball Guy]

My bold prediction: He has more pinch hits than Margot and will play better defense. (not exactly a high bar)

[PatPfund]

The Bader deal was terrible. They already had a great D, probably weak O backup CF in Keirsey, Jr. Try all you want to prove Bader is better in his 30s, but seriously, $8 million better (if you include bonuses)? On a team that has a tight budget? You probably could have added a 160 inning SP like Pivetta or Quintana for that money.

Bader is just a worse hitting, more injury prone, almost paid as much, Max Kepler. (And at least Kepler started regularly, which is more than is planned for Bader.)

They could also have focused Martin on OF, and had a younger, faster, cheaper, more offensive upside, RH-hitting 4th OF. With the tools to be great defensively if he wasn't being forced into a utility role.

 

[KBJ1]

This years Manny Margot, yay.

[mikelink45]

The Twins have limited us to talking about Bader much more than he deserves.  He is 4th OF maybe - will he go to the corner spots or only to CF?  Commentors are right - we stopped hitting the end of last year and he cannot fix that.  

But what is left - Coloume has certainly got enough attention for a middle reliever who might see one inning at a time until he is hurt.

Then we have to drop down to Gaspar the hidden gem or Ford or??? 

Tell the FO we need something done soon to refresh the TD pages. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, Mahoning said:

In a way, you could see it as a message to the younger players: "Guys, it's on you." 

How? They can't come up if they are being blocked. 

[nicksaviking]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

How? They can't come up if they are being blocked. 

Or pinch hit for.

I think it says the opposite message. 'Guys, we trust you less than one of the worst hitters in the entire league.'

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, nicksaviking said:

Or pinch hit for.

I think it says the opposite message. 'Guys, we trust you less than one of the worst hitters in the entire league.'

Agreed. 

[Heiny]

I think Bader is good depth, which is what he was signed for.  It's basically what most of us have been clamoring for since November.  Let him play and see what he does.  I'm not concerned with the money he makes, it's costing me nothing.  Welcome to the team Harrison.  We seem to whine too much.  Go Twins.

[mluebker]

It's kinda the opposite of the usual, "We like your bat, so we'll keep moving you from position to position until we find one where you don't suck." Problem is, there's only one place the guy can hit from.

 

[JD-TWINS]

3 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

For a team with no money, they just Made a 4th outfielder their 5th highest paid hitter, there is no justification for that what so ever. I would have rather just used Keirsay as that player and trade for one later if needed.

RH hitter, unlike Kiersey. No lost prospects signing a free agent v. trading for one later. Can always trade him later…….don’t love him but not the end of the world.

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

How? They can't come up if they are being blocked. 

Nobody that’s playing well is ever, ever blocked……hit the ball, force your way to the Show.

It’s not, come on up & give it a shot, we’ve got our fingers crossed that you stick. AAA is a proving ground - dress rehearsal……perform and we have to play you at Target!

That should be the message from the organization.

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Nobody that’s playing well is ever, ever blocked……hit the ball, force your way to the Show.

It’s not, come on up & give it a shot, we’ve got our fingers crossed that you stick. AAA is a proving ground - dress rehearsal……perform and we have to play you at Target!

That should be the message from the organization.

Wallner sat in AAA and watched Gallo. Utterly dominated when he finally came up. I can't think of one young guy that came up where there was a veteran in place and healthy. 

[Mike Sixel]

5 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Nobody that’s playing well is ever, ever blocked……hit the ball, force your way to the Show.

It’s not, come on up & give it a shot, we’ve got our fingers crossed that you stick. AAA is a proving ground - dress rehearsal……perform and we have to play you at Target!

That should be the message from the organization.

Lots of teams promote rookies before they fully prove themselves. And let them work thru early struggles....

[TwinsDr2021]

13 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

RH hitter, unlike Kiersey. No lost prospects signing a free agent v. trading for one later. Can always trade him later…….don’t love him but not the end of the world.

last years Bader's splits were .681 vs RHP and .612 vs LHP it was wasted money on a team that has said over and over again it is right sizing.

The Twins not having a RH center fielder in the minors is sign this FO, can't do it. If they need a RH center fielder put Lewis out there.

[Linus]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Wallner sat in AAA and watched Gallo. Utterly dominated when he finally came up. I can't think of one young guy that came up where there was a veteran in place and healthy. 

It’s been painfully clear that the veterans will play regardless of performance.  And I wouldn’t really care if the veterans were upper end players but they never have been.  At some point the difference in performance between the scrap heap veteran and the AAA young player is negligible.

[NYCTK]

9 minutes ago, Linus said:

It’s been painfully clear that the veterans will play regardless of performance.  And I wouldn’t really care if the veterans were upper end players but they never have been.  At some point the difference in performance between the scrap heap veteran and the AAA young player is negligible.

As someone that watched quite a bit of both Bader and Austin Martin last season...you guys are very, very wrong. 

[JADBP]

So basically add $6 million to Buxton’s salary because that’s what we have to pay for insurance in the event of the eventual injuries. Not a pleasant thought.  He’s far more expensive than we think.  
 

Bader adds nothing of any significant value to the team at a fairly high price for a cheap team. 

[rv78]

2 hours ago, Parfigliano said:

And fans will be disappointed when there is no call up.  Bader is a vet paid 6.5 million so he will play.

If he stinks?  Still plays.  If young guy tearing up AAA?  Still plays.

Point on with Bader. Rocco has proven to play his veterans at every point. It doesn't matter who is in front of them on the depth chart or how bad that veteran is playing. Rocco will OVER-use him. I'd be willing to bet that the very first game this year the Twins face a starting Lefty Pitcher, he will be starting over Larnach or Wallner..... unless Buck is hurt already which might be even more likely.

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, rv78 said:

Point on with Bader. Rocco has proven to play his veterans at every point. It doesn't matter who is in front of them on the depth chart or how bad that veteran is playing. Rocco will OVER-use him. I'd be willing to bet that the very first game this year the Twins face a starting Lefty Pitcher, he will be starting over Larnach or Wallner..... unless Buck is hurt already which might be even more likely.

In fairness, he can only play the guys on the roster.... Though I agree he'll defer to veterans or platoons if given a chance

[sweetmusicviola16]

My take, you don't need an elite glove in the corner. An adequate glove suffices. But your corner guys need to hit. Bader doesn't provide that. If you want Bader to backup Buxton and provide insurance to him fine. If you want to pay out 6-8mil for that fine. But if Bader is being platooned with Larnach and Wallner then he will be Margot 2.0. That is stupid. Everybody on the continent knows that corner outfielders need to be able to hit first and foremost.

[Parfigliano]

2 minutes ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

My take, you don't need an elite glove in the corner. An adequate glove suffices. But your corner guys need to hit. Bader doesn't provide that. If you want Bader to backup Buxton and provide insurance to him fine. If you want to pay out 6-8mil for that fine. But if Bader is being platooned with Larnach and Wallner then he will be Margot 2.0. That is stupid. Everybody on the continent knows that corner outfielders need to be able to hit first and foremost.

On this subject I think the jury is still out on Rocco and what he knows.

[bean5302]

SSS analysis on Bader's splits. Bader was much better at the plate vs. LHP last year than RHP, the luck just wasn't with him.
Career:
vs. LHP .249/.314/.461 OPS .775 wRC+ 109
vs. RHP .239/.303/.367 OPS .670 wRC+ 84

2024
vs. LHP 6.5% BB, 18.3% K, .146 ISO (.213 BABIP)
vs. RHP 3.9% BB, 23.6% K, .132 ISO (.311 BABIP)

Seeing the pages and pages and pages of comments on Bader is just ridiculous. The Twins must have a starting caliber center fielder on the roster to back up Buxton. It is a MUST. A MUST. Bader fills that need at the bare minimum level. It's not because Buxton might get hurt and be out for a month, but because Buxton will miss no less than two months of time due to multiple injuries next year. In fact, Buxton typically misses at least three months per year due to various injuries.

Austin Hays a29, sprint 27.1 ft/sec was abysmal in the corners last year and hasn't played more than a couple games in CF in years. 
Laureano a30, sprint 27.8 ft/sec was bad in the corners last year, and terrible in CF recent years.
Grichuk a33, sprint 27.5 ft/sec was bad in the corners last year and had mixed metrics in CF years ago when he played it a little.




None of those guys is a legitimate center fielder. Not even part-time. They're Manny Margot all over again. That's why those guys signed for cheap.

[USAFChief]

1 minute ago, bean5302 said:

SSS analysis on Bader's splits. Bader was much better at the plate vs. LHP last year than RHP, the luck just wasn't with him.
Career:
vs. LHP .249/.314/.461 OPS .775 wRC+ 109
vs. RHP .239/.303/.367 OPS .670 wRC+ 84

2024
vs. LHP 6.5% BB, 18.3% K, .146 ISO (.213 BABIP)
vs. RHP 3.9% BB, 23.6% K, .132 ISO (.311 BABIP)

Seeing the pages and pages and pages of comments on Bader is just ridiculous. The Twins must have a starting caliber center fielder on the roster to back up Buxton. It is a MUST. A MUST. Bader fills that need at the bare minimum level. It's not because Buxton might get hurt and be out for a month, but because Buxton will miss no less than two months of time due to multiple injuries next year. In fact, Buxton typically misses at least three months per year due to various injuries.

Austin Hays a29, sprint 27.1 ft/sec was abysmal in the corners last year and hasn't played more than a couple games in CF in years. His wOBA was 
Laureano a30, sprint 27.8 ft/sec was bad in the corners last year, and terrible in CF recent years.
Grichuk a33, sprint 27.5 ft/sec was bad in the corners last year and had mixed metrics in CF years ago when he played it a little.




None of those guys is a legitimate center fielder. They're Manny Margot all over again. That's why those guys signed for cheap.

Don't forget to add playing time for the backup CFer for days when Buxton ISN'T injured, but Rocco gives him time off anyway. Add...25-30 games. 

[Schmoeman5]

5 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

Why was this done? What was the point of selling Helman?

They need cash to pay for rental cars and hotel rooms during ST not to mention meal money.  I think RB Stu is coming out with a thread addressing this.

[Blyleven2011]

5 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

Why was this done? What was the point of selling Helman?

Helman was traded for cash so twins could have a roster spot on the 40 man roster for coloumbe  , then the dfa'd henrique to make room for Bader  , 

We have a full 40 man roster , ecerytime we add a major league player , we have to let a younger player go ...

[RpR]

3 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

How? They can't come up if they are being blocked. 

Play well enough to show they MAY make it in the Bigs.

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Nobody that’s playing well is ever, ever blocked……hit the ball, force your way to the Show.

It’s not, come on up & give it a shot, we’ve got our fingers crossed that you stick. AAA is a proving ground - dress rehearsal……perform and we have to play you at Target!

That should be the message from the organization.

It's a fine prerogative regarding the young players. But why do they have to prove something that Bader himself is unable to prove?

Making the young guys 'earn the promotion' doesn't exactly work when the guy at the MLB level is handed a job even though he also hasn't earned a spot in a MLB lineup in three years. 

[NYCTK]

7 minutes ago, RpR said:

Play well enough to show they MAY make it in the Bigs.

B-b-but no roster spot has ever opened up on a major league team. I've never seen someone demoted or placed on the IL. 

[TwinsDr2021]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

The Twins must have a starting caliber center fielder on the roster to back up Buxton. It is a MUST.

and yet they got Bader,

If this is a must and I am not saying it isn't maybe do a better job, I mean that is the FO job isn't it? They have had all off season, a minor leagues full of assets and obviously some cash to do it and this is the best they could do and people are justifying it by saying they could have done worse? If they couldn't find a viable option well then maybe think outside the box and bring in a LF or RF fielder that isn't subpar, move Wallner or Larnch to DH, and when Buxton goes down put Keirsay in CF (I mean because defense is so important) and move Wallner or Larnach back to the outfield.

There are other ways to fix issues than saying you don't have any money to spent and then spending what money you have a replacement level player.

Remind me again how long this FO has been here and haven't come up with 1 viable center-field option, knowing the whole time Buxton's health history.

If they couldn't find anything less expensive and similar to Bader, I would have called up Lewis and said we did all we could to improve center field but nobody was going to be better than you, Come to spring training prepared to play some center field, it better for your career than 2nd base. If he gets injured again, so be it, it is better to know that before paying him real money.

[Mike Sixel]

51 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

B-b-but no roster spot has ever opened up on a major league team. I've never seen someone demoted or placed on the IL. 

No one said this.