Core or Out the Door: Ranking the 2025 Twins' Building Block Players 1-5

[RpR]

14 minutes ago, BsuNemo said:

A lineup of Miranda at first, Lee at second, Correa short, Lewis third, Wallner right, buck center, Larnach left, jeffers catching

 

A Major League sieve at 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

 

[Reptevia]

12 minutes ago, RpR said:

A Major League sieve at 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

 

Certainly 3’s if not 4’s. 

[sweetmusicviola16]

Don't trade Lopez,Ryan or Ober. They'll at least keep us I the wildcard mix. Poor time to trade Lewis. Not anywhere near peak value right now. I concur with a couple of others, slow off season coming for Twins. Maybe Paddock for salary cut. 

[weitz41]

Well Cody that title is bound to get clicks and responses. I know so am I. Please excuse if I missed something. 2x cost + injury history and 2x Do you want a different job? Let's move on to players who may need a change of scenery. Still good. I clicked AND I responded.

[JD-TWINS]

9 hours ago, Otaknam said:

This doesn’t make any sense: “the Twins might want to trade (Lewis) from their core to alter the team’s future”, which “could be a necessity to keep the team’s winning window open as long as possible.” How does trading from the core alter the team’s future in a positive way? And how does trading a young core player like Lewis keep a winning window open? They wouldn’t trade young core players for unproven minor leaguers, and they wouldn’t  trade them for veterans because of the cost. If the team is in a minor rebuilt, not a total tear down and starting over, wouldn’t you want to keep the young, less expensive core together? A Correa trade makes sense because they want to cut salary, though I don’t think that will happen. Brooks Lee could play SS, though he is a downgrade from Correa. Lewis stays at third, Julien, or better yet, Keaschall at second. Miranda becomes a floater, playing first or third occasionally, and DH. But the Twins can’t trade their young, inexpensive core. That’s what they build around.

The Team is up for sale!!! Nobody is trading any of these 5 guys nor any of their other good players……..a for sale sign denotes “status quo” to me.

Trade Ryan to get a good hitter - trade Lewis to get a good pitcher…….,it’s futile.

They might trade Duran to let Jax close if they can get some offensive punch in return. Am assuming they would need to add another “upside pitcher” combined with Duran to get any real value back. There’s no need (with 8 or more guys of 13 every day guys under 28 years old) to do a soft rebuild. They need to strengthen the list of guys they already have with one solid bat!!! There’s 30 different opportunities via trade or FA for a bat - I like trading for Casas, Boston’s 1B…………..Duran - C. Lewis - Gonzalez or Julien or both to Boston?

Buxton - Correa - Larnach - Lewis - Correa - Wallner - Miranda - Jeffers -  Kiersey - Vazquez - Lee - Martin or Keaschall - & NEW BAT………. .800 OPS guy that’s done it a bit……not readily available! O’Neill as a FA after Boston could work?

[DocBauer]

Correa and Buxton aren't going anywhere unless they ASK to be moved. Both love being Twins and have repeatedly states their families love being part of the Twins and how they're treated, and enjoy being in the Twins cities. They're also really good players when on the field. If Correa foot problem is not fixed from therapy and new shoes...which I believe from personal experience to have been the issue...he's going to play 140 games. Buxton's knee appears good. The reoccurring hip issue has been a result of the previous knee issue. A full year removed from his last "tweak' procedure and an offseason of conditioning and strengthening, there's hope his hip will respond better. Again, they aren't going anywhere.

I'll say the same things I basically said in the previous OP that mentioned Ober: while the Twins have some exciting arms that have debuted, or are about to debut, there's nobody ready yet to take over for Lopez, Ryan, or Ober...(Jax and Duran in the pen as well)... and be close to as good. And none of the 3 are expensive, even Lopez at just over $20M. And you're just not going to move one of them and then sign someone as good for the same or less money. Pretty much the same thing in a trade scenario. 

MAYBE the only 25yo Lewis is fragile. But MAYBE missing so much time due to his previous knee injuries has caused his tissue injuries as his body has adjusted to playing daily again over a long season. I'd bet on the latter idea. His bat has MVP future MVP potential. His defense isn't great, but it's OK, will almost certainly get better with repetition and experience, as long as he can correct the awkward throwing motion he developed last year.

I think this team needs a re-tool, not any sort of rebuild. The changes to the batting coaches is a part of that. There are needs to add as part of the re-tool, and I'm not saying there isn't. But in 2023 I thought the Twins would win 88-92 games. The first half offensive struggles kept them from crossing the 90 win threshold. While the 2024 team had some imperfections due to the payroll cuts, and the horrendous first 30 games probably cost them the playoffs in the long run, they were amongst the winningest teams in MLB for 3 1/2 months. They weren't an ELITE team, but they were a good one. I can't forget that despite the 40-45 day collapse to end the season.

But honestly, if they trade any of the pitchers listed in this pair of OP's, who replaces them? The team takes a step back. If Wallner or Lewis, and their production/potential is moved, who replaces them? The team takes a step back.

Falvey is just not going to pull a "Dombrowski" and trade off the system to add a bunch of quality veterans. It's not how he works. Further, veterans would cost more financially in already limited budget.

I DO maintain a couple of good, young players will probably be moved. An arm or two, possibly one of Lee, Keaschall, or Kaelen Culpepper, to add another young, talented, controllable player or two. 

Not saying it's going to happen, but I'm really starting to embrace the idea of the Twins putting together a package of 2 or 3 solid prospects to someone who's got a young catcher to be brought on to join Jeffers. That kind of move makes a lot of sense to me.

After that, it makes all the more sense to move Vazquez and his 1yr deal to someone looking for veteran catching help. (We keep hearing he'd be in demand). Then you move Paddack to someone looking for a SP option/depth that sees his $7M as a relative bargain. That's $13-17M in additional payroll to make a couple additions. While i DON'T want to see him go, it's possible Castro is moved for some additional $. 

MAYBE ownership throws Falvey a small bone in their FAREWELL season and allows a small bump in the payroll. Maybe not. But I can see Joe and Jim reaching out to the family for it. (Drop in the bucket financially with a $1.5B payday coming). It's entirely possible other teams will be looking hard at their new deals, and impending loss of revenue, and there might be some bargains out there.

Either way, Falvey now has a little $ to add a veteran LHRP on the market, a solid RH OF who is NOT of the Margot caliber, or maybe a bargain 1B option. Probably room for a couple of those, but doubtful all three. 

It's not a perfect solution, but I think it's an interesting and viable one. But I just can't see an option where Falvey breaks up the rotation, moves one of our top two pen arms, or eliminates two of the potentially best bats in Wallner or Lewis, and SOMEHOW improves the team. 

I appreciate the ideas of these OP's, and who knows, we could be in for a major surprise it's almost impossible to guess at. But moving almost any of these 10 options feels like lowering the potential of the 2025 team IMO. 

[tony&rodney]

25 minutes ago, DocBauer said:

moving almost any of these 10 options feels like lowering the potential of the 2025 team IMO. 

This is more or less rolling back the same team. Or do you think Falvey trades Walker Jenkins, Emmanuel Rodriguez, or other prospects? Who exactly is available in your opinion?

While I have no ideas because I do not understand what Falvey has been doing, this offseason has the potential for being his one shot before the shoe drops for him.

[mluebker]

10 hours ago, mrcharlie said:

Buxton has shown to me over the years that he is not a team player.  Lewis needs to keep his mouth shut and stick with hitting in the clutch.

Be nice to have both of them in the lineup more often. As I said elsewhere, why not move Correa to first or third where he’d have less lateral movement to cause or exacerbate injuries? And how about Buxton to one of the corners where he and his fragile hip and knee would have less ground to cover and fewer opportunities to injure himself?
 

Yeah, that costs the team something on defense up the middle, but right now both of those guys are missing so many games the Twins already are paying that price for close to half a season for each of them.

[David Maro]

Hard to build a winning team when you're core players spend so many games on the IL. Don't see a lot of teams lining up to take any of them. You may have a team look at Lewis only.

[RpR]

1 hour ago, mluebker said:

Be nice to have both of them in the lineup more often. As I said elsewhere, why not move Correa to first or third where he’d have less lateral movement to cause or exacerbate injuries? And how about Buxton to one of the corners where he and his fragile hip and knee would have less ground to cover and fewer opportunities to injure himself?
 

Yeah, that costs the team something on defense up the middle, but right now both of those guys are missing so many games the Twins already are paying that price for close to half a season for each of them.

Because the Twins want to win, not look like Chicago next year.

They have no one to take those spots that are even average for talent.

[mluebker]

26 minutes ago, RpR said:

They have no one to take those spots that are even average for talent.

And if they stick with Buxton and Correa in those spots, they have them on the field for only about half a season each, with the same question of who plays in their places for the other half. Might as well take the defensive hit up the middle now, and hopefully mitigate the otherwise inevitable protracted IL stints. They’re going to need a regular, everyday shortstop sooner or later, because Correa is both getting older and demonstrating he can’t stay healthy enough to be that guy.

[dxpavelka]

You don't get better when your best players are playing somewhere else.  Had Brooks Lee played Lewis out of a job trading Lewis would make sense.  Still might happen.  Might not.  Lewis, Buxton, Correa, Lopez, Ryan, Ober and Lee should be untouchable until someone plays them off the roster.  Not likely.

 

[Bodie]

A hint for any future feature writers:  Just f!@#ing STOP with articles saying that the Twins have depth at pitching after seeing what starting options #3+ were 30 days ago (and still are), any blithering idiot can see that neither the rotation or bullpen is anywhere near ready for a competitive ball team. 

 

Let alone being an area of surplus.... WTF were these writers watching in September?  I know for a FACT they were not seeing the boon of a "deep" pitching staff.  In fact you saw a team so desperate for arms that they were scouring the DFAs.  Unlike other playoff contenders, Minny was looking for arms for the next day (not a year away, reclamation project).

[bean5302]

4 hours ago, Bodie said:

A hint for any future feature writers:  Just f!@#ing STOP with articles saying that the Twins have depth at pitching after seeing what starting options #3+ were 30 days ago (and still are), any blithering idiot can see that neither the rotation or bullpen is anywhere near ready for a competitive ball team. 

 

Let alone being an area of surplus.... WTF were these writers watching in September?  I know for a FACT they were not seeing the boon of a "deep" pitching staff.  In fact you saw a team so desperate for arms that they were scouring the DFAs.  Unlike other playoff contenders, Minny was looking for arms for the next day (not a year away, reclamation project).

Pretty furious take there.

The Twins do have a lot of potential starting pitching prospects on the cusp of being MLB ready, but I wouldn't bank on any of the AAA depth guys being as good as Lopez or Ryan. A year can make a lot of difference.

Right now, the starting rotation looks like:
Lopez, Ryan, Ober, Paddack, SWR.
Already debuted depth - Festa, Matthews
AAA depth - #5 Morris, #6 Raya, #13 Lewis

[jud6312]

A redemption year is playing in 102 and not clearing 400 PAs for the ninth time in 10 seasons?

 

What a low bar we've set.

[Bodie]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

Pretty furious take there.

The Twins do have a lot of potential starting pitching prospects on the cusp of being MLB ready, but I wouldn't bank on any of the AAA depth guys being as good as Lopez or Ryan. A year can make a lot of difference.

Right now, the starting rotation looks like:
Lopez, Ryan, Ober, Paddack, SWR.
Already debuted depth - Festa, Matthews
AAA depth - #5 Morris, #6 Raya, #13 Lewis

Potential doesn't necessarily mean depth.

Look at a list of Twins minor league pitcher of the year.  Go back a while and ask how many of those top prospects made a positive impact.  Cumulatively there is about one good season of bullpen work.  Cumulatively. 

And that is going back (but not including) Jose Berios.  So while there is more to be optimistic about the future of Twins pitching, I'll not be holding my breath waiting for any of it to pan out, let alone all of them.

 

And yes, that was and still is a VERY angry take.  I didn't think last year's optimism about the pitching (for '24) was warranted in any way, esp. the bullpen.  Hearing the exact same wishful thinking fuels me with the fury of white hot star.

And if I hear the names Varland or Paddack as a meaningful part of the staff I will go supernova!!!  Nothing is impossible, but we have a record for both of these guys, and it says you cannot count on either of these guys to provide any positive. Anything is possible, especially in baseball, but there is a difference between hopes and dreams, and an honest prediction for future performance. 

[RpR]

The USA today did a sports article on every teams World Series chance 2025.

Twin had no chance  while Lopez, Ryan and Ober was the only good thing they said about the team as a whole.

[Fatbat]

On 11/3/2024 at 1:08 PM, tony&rodney said:

What is your definition of a meltdown? Would it be ok if the Twins won, say, 82 games in 2025 and finished in fourth place in the AL Central again? Will the positive individual achievements of several specific players combined with a record above .500 (82-80) constitute an ok 2025 season?

I read the comments and your statements generally represent the overwhelming majority of those who participate on this site. I respect that but also wonder what constitutes acceptable for the 2025 Twins. 

82 wins is a stumble to the finish. A melt down in closer to 70 wins.  In ‘24, we were closer to a 90 win team until aug 20th. 
the FO is going to try running back the pre aug ‘24 team minus the meltdown.

[tony&rodney]

47 minutes ago, Fatbat said:

82 wins is a stumble to the finish. A melt down in closer to 70 wins.  In ‘24, we were closer to a 90 win team until aug 20th. 
the FO is going to try running back the pre aug ‘24 team minus the meltdown.

I guess you could be correct. That doesn't really sound like a plan to me though. I'm concerned that the Twins were 20 games below even versus decent teams and built some of their record by obliterating the White Sox. That doesn't seem likely to be repeatable to the same degree. The underlying faults seem to need attention, slow team speed. This greatly affects both sides of the ball, particularly defense. It is also noteworthy that the Twins are not really a power hitting team either. I guess I didn't see a meltdown as much as a reckoning. However, your position is the majority viewpoint apparently and I will not be surprised at all if the Twins are very similar next season. There is always hope.

[DocBauer]

On 11/3/2024 at 7:17 PM, tony&rodney said:

This is more or less rolling back the same team. Or do you think Falvey trades Walker Jenkins, Emmanuel Rodriguez, or other prospects? Who exactly is available in your opinion?

While I have no ideas because I do not understand what Falvey has been doing, this offseason has the potential for being his one shot before the shoe drops for him.

To be, hopefully, more clear, I'm not saying they will or should do a 100% rollback on the 2024 squad. But A] they aren't riddled with holes on the roster, B] the trading of any of these 10 opens up a hole somewhere you have to fill back up. So what do you accomplish moving virtually any of them?

The payroll is a serious issue, of course, unless they can free up some space, which brings us back to possibly moving either or both of  Vazquez and Paddack. Possibly Castro as well, but that one hurts, at least in the short term short term for 2025.

Now, who saw the Areaez trade for Lopez happening? Nobody. So I'm not saying there might not be a surprise that we just don't see coming.

No, I don't think Jenkins or E Rodriguez are on the block at all. Almost any other position player/prospect is open. I include Lee in that list as he's a rookie in every way except the details of time spend on the ML roster. The Jay's reportedly wanted Keaschall for Kukuchi and the Twins said no. While just drafted, I can see Kaelen Culpepper available as well. Remember, they traded Petty the offseason after they drafted him.

On the pitching side of things, I'd say Festa, Matthews, and probably Morris are hands off. Not saying no, I can even see a path where SWR was moved, but I doubt it. I don't see Prielipp being moved due to talent/potential as well as still being an unknown quantity physically. While he's a tantalizing prospect, and the Twins would be loathe to move him, I could see Soto moved in the right deal. Personally, i still like Raya's potential, but I think he's available in a deal as well. Possibly Morris over him if the right deal is on the table. One will be available along with Lewis, Culpepper, and everyone else in the system.

I see no path to the Twins trading prospects, or barely graduated prospects, for veteran talent due to $ constraints. But I can see packages of various prospects for a young catcher, a ready to go RH OF or 1B who have just graduated to MLB, or are ready to.

I don't see a world where you trade a Looez/Ryan/Ober and then try to acquire another young arm that's less proven when you already have young arms like SWR, Festa, Matthews, and Morris, etc, ready or near ready.

Again, we've been surprised before.

I think prospects for another young player or two ML ready, the deal(s) fitting each teams needs. I see Vazquez and Paddack as possibles to free up some $ for a couple decent, solid pieces like a LHRP or RH OF on the FA market. 

 

[RpR]

1 hour ago, DocBauer said:

I think prospects for another young player or two ML ready, the deal(s) fitting each teams needs. I see Vazquez and Paddack as possibles to free up some $ for a couple decent, solid pieces like a LHRP or RH OF on the FA market. 

 

Trade Vazquez leaving Camargo and Jeffers; Bobby Witt Jr. will set base stealing records against the Twins.

[JD-TWINS]

On 11/4/2024 at 12:19 AM, dxpavelka said:

You don't get better when your best players are playing somewhere else.  Had Brooks Lee played Lewis out of a job trading Lewis would make sense.  Still might happen.  Might not.  Lewis, Buxton, Correa, Lopez, Ryan, Ober and Lee should be untouchable until someone plays them off the roster.  Not likely.

 

Agree with the sentiment but gotta say, Lee needs to kick it up a couple notches or he may play himself off the Roster……absolutely pathetic at the plate after first 15 days in MLB. 

[RpR]

1 hour ago, JD-TWINS said:

Agree with the sentiment but gotta say, Lee needs to kick it up a couple notches or he may play himself off the Roster……absolutely pathetic at the plate after first 15 days in MLB. 

I disagree with Lee's bat while his defense, at Third Base, makes Lewis' look like an A level rookie, now. - (Although Lee stunk at 2nd and Short Stop.)

Whilst Lewis bat.

Lewis

 

Makes Lee look like the future at 3rd base, for now.

Lee

 

[Major League Ready]

26 minutes ago, RpR said:

I disagree with Lee's bat while his defense, at Third Base, makes Lewis' look like an A level rookie, now. - (Although Lee stunk at 2nd and Short Stop.)

Whilst Lewis bat.

Lewis

 

Makes Lee look like the future at 3rd base, for now.

Lee

 

You have reached a conclusion from 100ABs?

That conclusion is a .562 OPS suggests Lee is the future at 1B?

[RpR]

1 minute ago, Major League Ready said:

You have reached a conclusion from 100ABs?

That conclusion is a .562 OPS suggests Lee is the future at 1B?

Lee is the future at THIRD Base as his glove is good , so far, while Lewis is a just plain lousy fielder, any where , so far.

[TwinsDr2021]

On 11/3/2024 at 8:42 AM, saviking said:

Exactly! When I first saw these articles I assumed he was predicting the core players to build the next years around. 

Persoanlly I'd be willing to be patient and do a full Detroit style rebuild and jettison any player making 10 million a year or more for young talent. But that's just me. 

 

 

8 years into a regime and you are going to be patient with a total rebuild. No thanks

[FargoFanMan]

On 11/3/2024 at 8:01 AM, Otaknam said:

This doesn’t make any sense: “the Twins might want to trade (Lewis) from their core to alter the team’s future”, which “could be a necessity to keep the team’s winning window open as long as possible.” How does trading from the core alter the team’s future in a positive way? And how does trading a young core player like Lewis keep a winning window open? They wouldn’t trade young core players for unproven minor leaguers, and they wouldn’t  trade them for veterans because of the cost. If the team is in a minor rebuilt, not a total tear down and starting over, wouldn’t you want to keep the young, less expensive core together? A Correa trade makes sense because they want to cut salary, though I don’t think that will happen. Brooks Lee could play SS, though he is a downgrade from Correa. Lewis stays at third, Julien, or better yet, Keaschall at second. Miranda becomes a floater, playing first or third occasionally, and DH. But the Twins can’t trade their young, inexpensive core. That’s what they build around.

Well, they “might” want to trade Lewis to alter the teams window because A.) He’ll bring back a haul. A haul doesn’t mean a bunch of A ball prospects. It means a few high upside prospects and a few solid on the cusp guys. Guys that can help now or this season. B.) He’s not that young. He’s gonna be 26 come June. For reference Juan Soto just turned 26. Royce Lewis isn’t young by any means. That goes into my next point. C.) you can probably get 2 high upside prospects and a few immediate contributors for a guy who is slated to make something like $2M for one guy that maybe only has 5 peak years left if he can stay healthy. This helps your contention window stay open. Believe me I love Royce Lewis and he might be my favorite Twin. But baseball is a business and if you’re the Twins after that collapse you gotta look at all avenues to add more talent.

[FargoFanMan]

10 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Agree with the sentiment but gotta say, Lee needs to kick it up a couple notches or he may play himself off the Roster……absolutely pathetic at the plate after first 15 days in MLB. 

He was also a rookie that only played 25 games in AAA before being called up. Also, he was dealing with a shoulder injury. After the first couple weeks the league adjusted. Typical of a rookie to struggle after a few weeks. He has an off-season to prep for MLB and hit the ground running. He’ll be fine. 

[David HK]

They wouldn't possible trade him, but Royce needs to suck it up next term.  It didn't take him long to go from Jeter Jr. to Danny Valencia in my eyes.  Attitude included.

[dxpavelka]

23 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Agree with the sentiment but gotta say, Lee needs to kick it up a couple notches or he may play himself off the Roster……absolutely pathetic at the plate after first 15 days in MLB. 

willing to give him time