Desclafani Elbow Soreness

[weneedneshek]

Desclafani's spring training ramp up has been delayed, seems like this almost always ends up getting worse or leading to TJ.

https://www.threads.net/@strib_bobby/post/C3-b_koL0lT/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D

[Oldgoat_MN]

This is not good (well, maybe not all bad for Varland). DeSclafani needs to show up like his 2021 self and he could be a real asset. 

I agree with weneedneshek. This seldom bodes well.

[Doctor Gast]

Not good. Why am I not surprised?

[PseudoSABR]

37 minutes ago, weneedneshek said:

Desclafani's spring training ramp up has been delayed, seems like this almost always ends up getting worse or leading to TJ.

https://www.threads.net/@strib_bobby/post/C3-b_koL0lT/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D

The way I read it is that although he's been delayed, he's currently ramping up his throwing. 

[weneedneshek]

12 minutes ago, PseudoSABR said:

The way I read it is that although he's been delayed, he's currently ramping up his throwing. 

Yes I agree, hopefully the ramp makes it all the way to the top

[tony&rodney]

Four weeks before games and likely five weeks before DeSclafani would start a game. DeScla has time and Varland is the better choice anyways but Louie has options remaining. No worries at all.

[Nashvilletwin]

Lol.  100% predictable. It seems every year we make a trade for a pitcher that turns out just like this.

No matter - next man up!

[nicksaviking]

7 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Lol.  100% predictable. It seems every year we make a trade for a pitcher that turns out just like this.

No matter - next man up!

Yeah, like Pablo Lopez, Sonny Gray, Kenta Meada and Jake Odorizzi. Every time!

DeSclafani was a throw in piece of a trade that virtually nobody here was happy with, I wish him the best but he was always a long shot not to lose his job before June regardless of health.

Speaking of, I'm in agreement with others, the delay due to 'elbow soreness'  sounds like his previous elbow soreness kept him from being ready for camp, not current soreness. You wouldn't ramp up activity if it's sore now, you'd shut a guy down completely.

[weneedneshek]

14 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Speaking of, I'm in agreement with others, the delay due to 'elbow soreness'  sounds like his previous elbow soreness kept him from being ready for camp, not current soreness. You wouldn't ramp up activity if it's sore now, you'd shut a guy down completely.

That feels like they must have known he had elbow soreness when they completed the trade then. Hard to believe he gained it and lost it in the 2 weeks since pitchers reported

[CRF]

 "Louie, Louie, Oh, Oh, Me Gotta Go"...well, actually Louie...it's probably time to take DeSclafani's place in the rotation. 

[PseudoSABR]

 

[nicksaviking]

12 minutes ago, weneedneshek said:

That feels like they must have known he had elbow soreness when they completed the trade then. Hard to believe he gained it and lost it in the 2 weeks since pitchers reported

The whole world was aware of his injury issues I'm sure. I mean, he seemed like a salary dump, at least a partial one. The Mariners didn't have to eat his entire salary.

[Unwinder]

18 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Lol.  100% predictable. It seems every year we make a trade for a pitcher that turns out just like this.

No matter - next man up!

This is pretty clearly the whole strategy - trade for risky starters in bulk and whoever stays healthy is your rotation. I think I mostly agree with the process.

[stringer bell]

Not a surprise. I would hope that he can be ready, but it was always a gamble that he would stay healthy.

[Nashvilletwin]

16 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Yeah, like Pablo Lopez, Sonny Gray, Kenta Meada and Jake Odorizzi. Every time!

DeSclafani was a throw in piece of a trade that virtually nobody here was happy with, I wish him the best but he was always a long shot not to lose his job before June regardless of health.

Speaking of, I'm in agreement with others, the delay due to 'elbow soreness'  sounds like his previous elbow soreness kept him from being ready for camp, not current soreness. You wouldn't ramp up activity if it's sore now, you'd shut a guy down completely.

Disagree - the trades you mentioned above were strong trades, but there have been at least three trades (if this trade heads the way some posters are projecting) where we got zippo from the pitchers.  Now, the FO gets credit for the good ones.  But three absolute zeros in four years is horrible (and giving up legit major leaguers in those deals).  I also disagree that DeSclafani was a throw in - the plan absolutely was not for Varland to start the year as the fifth starter.  No chance.  We were looking for 100 plus innings out of DeSclafani with most of them coming early in the year.  And btw we are paying him $4MM.

If DeSclafani is truly done, we will find another starter.   Let’s hope he’s not.

[weneedneshek]

2 minutes ago, Unwinder said:

This is pretty clearly the whole strategy - trade for risky starters in bulk and whoever stays healthy is your rotation. I think I mostly agree with the process.

Just wish the risky starter they traded for had a little higher of ceiling than Disco. Braves are only paying 10.5M of Sales salary and he's looking great so far. Sale did have to waive his no trade but he might have for us too, not like we aren't contenders with a clear path for him to start full time

[Nashvilletwin]

29 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Yeah, like Pablo Lopez, Sonny Gray, Kenta Meada and Jake Odorizzi. Every time!

DeSclafani was a throw in piece of a trade that virtually nobody here was happy with, I wish him the best but he was always a long shot not to lose his job before June regardless of health.

Speaking of, I'm in agreement with others, the delay due to 'elbow soreness'  sounds like his previous elbow soreness kept him from being ready for camp, not current soreness. You wouldn't ramp up activity if it's sore now, you'd shut a guy down completely.

Btw, I did not write “every time”. I wrote seems like “every year”.  There’s a big difference.   Please be more accurate when casting aspersions.  Thank you.  

[tony&rodney]

No need to jump the gun on predictions. DeScla is throwing right now and five weeks is still a long ways off.

[weneedneshek]

9 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

I also disagree that DeSclafani was a throw in - the plan absolutely was not for Varland to start the year as the fifth starter.  No chance.  We were looking for 100 plus innings out of DeSclafani with most of them coming early in the year.  And btw we are paying him $4MM.

If DeSclafani is truly done, we will find another starter.   Let’s hope he’s not.

Exactly, Disco was slotted into our rotation. There was no way Varland or SWR were breaking camp over him. if we are giving that to a "throw-in" then that looks really bad on the front office.

[FlyingFinn]

26 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

But three absolute zeros in four years is horrible (and giving up legit major leaguers in those deals).

I think you have to look at the entire picture. Put all the pitchers we've traded for on one side and then list all the players we've traded away. Then, where would our pitching staff be if we never made any of these trades, last year and this year? I'm pretty sure there are some teams that have never made any big pitcher trades during this time frame. And without some of these trades, our 40 man roster would have been overflowing and we would have lost players in the Rule 5 draft.  Pitchers are valuable and risky.

[Otaknam]

The FO trading for damaged goods has become a pattern. Paddock, Mahle, now DeSlifani. The players lost in those trades, mainly to Cincinnati, have hurt the team greatly. 

[big dog]

13 minutes ago, Otaknam said:

The FO trading for damaged goods has become a pattern. Paddock, Mahle, now DeSlifani. The players lost in those trades, mainly to Cincinnati, have hurt the team greatly. 

The Yankees traded four players for Frankie Montas and Lou Trevino. They got 41 bad innings from Montas over two years. They got 21 innings from Trivino in 2022, and he's been out since and is still out (elbow injury). The story goes on and on. Why assume that only the Twins trade for injured pitchers?

Successful trades for pitchers have also become a pattern, as mentioned by a prior post. Which is the true pattern? Or maybe it's just risky to trade for pitchers.

 

[Woof Bronzer]

2 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Yeah, like Pablo Lopez, Sonny Gray, Kenta Meada and Jake Odorizzi. Every time!

 

He said every year.  Which is accurate.  Don't let facts get in the way though!

[Woof Bronzer]

1 hour ago, Unwinder said:

This is pretty clearly the whole strategy - trade for risky starters in bulk and whoever stays healthy is your rotation. I think I mostly agree with the process.

Trying to understand if this is a joke or not.  Just about every risky starter we've traded for has gotten hurt, and many of the guys we gave up in return have been positive contributors for new teams.  In my opinion this "process" has been an unmitigated disaster, though it's hard to totally blame the FO for this year because they were prevented by ownership from improving the team.  When you self-impose spending constraints you end up with "wish and a prayer" guys like Descalfione instead of good players like Sonny Gray.  Which is why bottom-third payroll teams simply don't win World Series.  

[LA Vikes Fan]

3 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Yeah, like Pablo Lopez, Sonny Gray, Kenta Meada and Jake Odorizzi. Every time!

DeSclafani was a throw in piece of a trade that virtually nobody here was happy with, I wish him the best but he was always a long shot not to lose his job before June regardless of health.

Speaking of, I'm in agreement with others, the delay due to 'elbow soreness'  sounds like his previous elbow soreness kept him from being ready for camp, not current soreness. You wouldn't ramp up activity if it's sore now, you'd shut a guy down completely.

Agreed. The trade was really Polanco for Topa and Gonzalez with DeSclafani thrown in essentially for almost free with others paying 2/3 of his salary. Bowen was the classic even it out lottery ticket guy. DeSclafani is gone after 2024 unless he reverts to 2021 form (and then he's likely someone else's FA pickup). The elbow injury sounds ominous but let's not pretend that he was a key part of the Polanco trade. I hate to see anyone get hurt but I wouldn't be unhappy at all if Varland got some real run in the rotation out of the gate. 

On another note, with the DeSclafani elbow issue and Varland's possible ascension, do we need another veteran "break glass in case of emergency" type starter to stash in AAA? I think we might. I'm not thrilled by SWR or Dobnack as the next guy in line in case of injury. How about Jake Odorizzi? I don't know, but I would think he's take a minor league deal with an opt out. Or maybe Michael Lorenzen on a one year deal if he'd take it with Varland back at AAA? I'd really think about Lorenzen. I know he's been injured but I would be interested to see if Odorizzi has anything left.    

[nicksaviking]

5 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

Agreed. The trade was really Polanco for Topa and Gonzalez with DeSclafani thrown in essentially for almost free with others paying 2/3 of his salary. Bowen was the classic even it out lottery ticket guy. DeSclafani is gone after 2024 unless he reverts to 2021 form (and then he's likely someone else's FA pickup). The elbow injury sounds ominous but let's not pretend that he was a key part of the Polanco trade. I hate to see anyone get hurt but I wouldn't be unhappy at all if Varland got some real run in the rotation out of the gate. 

On another note, with the DeSclafani elbow issue and Varland's possible ascension, do we need another veteran "break glass in case of emergency" type starter to stash in AAA? I think we might. I'm not thrilled by SWR or Dobnack as the next guy in line in case of injury. How about Jake Odorizzi? I don't know, but I would think he's take a minor league deal with an opt out. Or maybe Michael Lorenzen on a one year deal if he'd take it with Varland back at AAA? I'd really think about Lorenzen. I know he's been injured but I would be interested to see if Odorizzi has anything left.    

I've been advocating for another Sanchez or Keuchel for AAA instead of guys like DeSclafani or Lorenzen or Clevinger and the like that we've been hearing about all winter.

I don't like reunions, but that aside, Odorizzi might fit that bill if he can't get a MLB contract.

[USAFChief]

19 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

Agreed. The trade was really Polanco for Topa and Gonzalez with DeSclafani thrown in essentially for almost free with others paying 2/3 of his salary. Bowen was the classic even it out lottery ticket guy. DeSclafani is gone after 2024 unless he reverts to 2021 form (and then he's likely someone else's FA pickup). The elbow injury sounds ominous but let's not pretend that he was a key part of the Polanco trade. 

I'd say you have that 100 percent wrong.

Polanco was traded for the best starter they thought they could get. 

The others were throw-ins, since the starter they were able to get is likely to suck. 

The Polanco trade doesn't happen without the Twins getting a planned rotation piece.

[nicksaviking]

31 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

I'd say you have that 100 percent wrong.

Polanco was traded for the best starter they thought they could get. 

The others were throw-ins, since the starter they were able to get is likely to suck. 

The Polanco trade doesn't happen without the Twins getting a planned rotation piece.

I don't know, do the Giants and Mariners really pay 3/4ths of his salary if he has any value?

Seems like the Twins were trying to get an actual pitcher for Polanco, but when they got rejected, they just grabbed the miscellaneous party favor bag on the way out instead.

[LA Vikes Fan]

I don't agree with USAFChief on this one. I think the plan was to trade Polanco for a starter but they couldn't get a good one since Polanco is older and has an injury history. They pivoted to getting a reliever - Topa - and a good prospect with risk and upside in Gonzalez. I think Seattle also was looking to move DeSclafani's salary and the Twins were looking to add starter depth so the moved him to MN and threw in Bowen so the Twins would pay some of his salary.. To me, that's a salary dump that happened to fit the Twins' need for SP depth. The Twins wanted to trade Polanco for a young starter with upside but couldn't so they settled for a high upside prospect, a (sort of) established late inning reliever, and a lottery pick. Getting a possible back end starter was a nice add on but not critical to the trade.  

[stringer bell]

DeSclafani was only available for $4M because of the heightened injury risk. I still am skeptical that he will get through even the first quarter of the season, but I think that if he does, he’ll be a steal for what the Twins are paying him.