Bring. Him. Home?

[UK Twin]

With Julien's emergence and Lee knocking on the door, plus we still have Polanco and Farmer so currently 2B is more than covered. More of a question about 1B but I wouldn't want the Twins paying what the Marlins would want for Arraez, as good a hitter as he is. If Buxton could prove he's healthy enough to play CF more than DH then it maybe becomes a different matter but I wouldn't want Arraez as an everyday 1B. 

[Doctor Gast]

13 hours ago, TopGunn#22 said:

It's fun to dream but there really isn't a positional fit (which is what made him available to Miami in the first place) and one has to wonder...for an offensively challenged team like the Marlins, who reportedly are still looking for bats, why are they souring on Arraez already?  He had what will probably turn out to be his career year in 2023.  Why would they move him now?  

When you already have Julien with Lee on the way and Polanco soon to be traded, you can't afford to spend ANY draft capital on something that is duplicative.  It's NOT that Luis is without value or would be loved again if he returned.  We need pitching.  We just don't need a LH hitting, 2B/1B/DH at this time.  

Heard about it about 4 weeks ago. MIA still is very satisfied with Arraez a fan favorite but MIA doesn't figure they could afford to sign him to an extension so they'd like to unload him while he's still worth something, Looks like a good opportunity to hook up with a team that could afford to give up a good SS & needs Arraez and we can land Luzardo. Make it happen

[DJL44]

10 hours ago, lecroy24fan said:

Arraez becamse the starting 2B when the Marlins decided to put Chisolm in CF.

Yes, the Marlins decided to play everyone out of position last year to get bats in the lineup.

[LewFordLives]

7 hours ago, MGX said:

Of course Arraez would be a great add for the Twins, there isn't a team in the league couldn't use his bat. The question is what would he cost? I suspect the Marlins would expect a return bigger than the one they gave to get him & that likely wouldn't work for the Twins.

I suspect that's what the Marlins are thinking. He's coming off a career year, so why not sell high. The problem with that thinking is that he now only has two years of control instead of three, and new economic realities may leave teams less inclined to take him through arbitration or negotiate an extension.

[Trov]

If we could get him on the cheap I would be for it, but I find that very unlikely.  He would be fun to have returned to DH or play 1B, but as much as I like him, I think we can build a stronger team without him.  His knees are causing him to have almost 0 speed, and will age very quickly.  The fact that he has very little power too means he will become a poor defending singles hitter. He is reaching his prime, but he does not profile well as a guy in his 30's. Although he would be FA before then.  That is why for next couple years I am fine with him if we do not have to give up much to take him back. 

[sweetmusicviola16]

10 hours ago, Parfigliano said:

Kirilloff worse then Buxton?  Kirilloff actually plays defensively at infield and outfield positions.  Let me know when Buxton plays defensively at any position.

Buxton did mostly play D until last year. Buzton has averaged 74 games a year.  Kiriloff 67. Good grief, both of these guys are a glass house waiting to shatter. This is what we're relying on in thinking we are championship contenders? Guys that can't even play half a season most every year b/c they are always injured.

"We're going to be so awesome this year because Buxton will be back in CF."  **** he'll play 60-70 games again and then he'll pack it in.

[sweetmusicviola16]

11 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Yeah, there’s no place for a player like Arraez on the Twins. I mean, we’d much rather have Kiriloff at 1B.  And having a 0.400 OBP is not good enough to compete with our current DH candidates.  Besides, he strikes out way less often than what we expect from our hitters.  Even though we wouldn’t expect him to play 2B, even as a temporary fill in he’d be way too much of a liability to merit having his bat in the lineup at all. Besides, he’s really only a platoon player at this point. The fact that the fans love him doesn’t matter at all as well.

We really should have a sarcasm font on the TD.

If we could acquire Arraez for a couple of ok prospects (think Schobel types) and throw in one or two Miranda or Larnach types,  we should do it in a nanosecond.  Polanco or Arraez? Please, it’s not even close - on virtually every metric. Kiriloff vs. Arraez? Are you kidding?  Just on likely innings to be played, Arraez might play more than both of them combined. Neither can hold his jock at the plate.

Imagine Julien and Arraez leading off against a right handed starter - the pitcher might be looking at his 21st pitch and at least one man on base before getting to our #3 hitter.

Also, Arraez is a spark plug. He is an igniter.  He shows up in Miami and the Marlins make the playoffs. No correlation there.

I get it’s not going to happen   But to pretend he is not a fit for this team, or there’s no room for him as a Twin, or he’s not a good enough hitter or fielder to play 1B and DH instead of Kiriloff (or Polanco or anyone else we currently are contemplating for those roles) is ridiculous. 

 

 

Yep, and some would have never wanted Rodney Carew to come back to the Twins either back in the day for the same assinine reasons.

I would have loved to see Rod Carew come back to the Twins in 1980. Would have given people at least one reason to come to a Twins game.

[TopGunn#22]

Matthew Trueblood makes a good point that the change in leadership with the Marlins may have altered their short term and long term goals and outlook.  If indeed, they are not willing to pay Arraez through several arbitration hearings as his price goes up, who else may they be unwilling to pay?  Even if it's someone on a 5 year, relatively affordable contract to most baseball teams but burdensome to the Marlins??

I'm referring to Sandy Alcantara their former Cy Young winning pitcher.  Due to Tommy John surgery, Alcantara is set to miss all of 2024 but should be ready to go for 2025.  On BBTV's he's a whopping negative 39 in value with having to pay him $11 million in 2024 just to rehab. 

To me, this is a tremendous opportunity.  I could unload Christian Vasquez (they need a catcher badly) or Jorge Polanco (they still need offense and Arraez could play more 1B/DH) straight up, one for one for Alcantara.  The Marlins COULD consider this because they'd have 2 years of cost certainty with either Vasquez or Polanco.  Maybe you throw in a Larnach? If the Twins would be willing to be patient with an eye on 2025 and promote Camargo in a Vasquez centered deal or a Polanco deal the payoff in 2025 would be tremendous.

Imagine a rotation with Lopez and Alcantara at the top with Ryan and Ober having one more year of development??  Add in one more year of Varland and Paddack as well as Festa and SWR being one year closer and you not only have depth...you have TALENT !!!  I would like the Twins to think in terms of a 5 year plan and not so much on year to year.  One year rental players just leave you with the same hole the following year. (Michael Taylor).  Look for bargains where a long term gain is beneficial as opposed to a short term gain.

The Marlins very well might not even consider this.  But who on TD thought we'd be reading about Luis Arraez being available after winning his 2nd Batting Title in a row?  

[chpettit19]

12 hours ago, darin617 said:

Then why did he play second base like over 95% of the time if they were betting on him being a first baseman or DH? 

The article says the Twins, not the Marlins, thought he was a 1B/DH. It says the Marlins thought he could play 2B.

[Aerodeliria]

...the article does say he also has platoon issues....I think that was what Twins' world claimed before the trade. The Marlins obviously didn't think that and they were proved right. Arraez raked regardless of the pitcher....

[nicksaviking]

If the Marlins are willing to trade Arraez, that should indicate they're willing to dealing pitching. That's the bigger take away to me.

If the Twins want Arraez back (and I prefer not to do reunions) they can sign him as a free agent after the 2025. A guy with no power and defensive limitations won't be very costly regardless of his batting average.

[chpettit19]

26 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

If the Marlins are willing to trade Arraez, that should indicate they're willing to dealing pitching. That's the bigger take away to me.

If the Twins want Arraez back (and I prefer not to do reunions) they can sign him as a free agent after the 2025. A guy with no power and defensive limitations won't be very costly regardless of his batting average.

I'm interested to see what comes of his last arb year next year. Really hard to non-tender a batting champ, but his number is going to be pushed to places I think some teams aren't comfortable paying someone with his skill set. I'd bet that's the main reason they're open to a possible trade. They aren't sure they're even going to pay him next year let alone in 2026.

[In My La Z boy]

19 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

If the Marlins are willing to trade Arraez, that should indicate they're willing to dealing pitching. That's the bigger take away to me.

If the Twins want Arraez back (and I prefer not to do reunions) they can sign him as a free agent after the 2025. A guy with no power and defensive limitations won't be very costly regardless of his batting average.

Saddest need expressed in this article is centerfield. It's sickening we need a centerfielder. I'll just say this - how many more runs, and how many more wins would we have had if Arraez was our Apr/May/June DH instead of Buck? I love the Alcantara idea stated above and do think the Marlins could be a partner in some productive way. I love Luis. He'd be the best full time DH in baseball. That's his best position. We learned Byron can't hit if he isn't playing in the field. Not sure what we're going to do here but our greatest need last spring was contact and baserunners. Trade Buxton for Luis. If Arraez plays DH everyday he gets 700 AB's with 240 hits. 

[JD-TWINS]

17 hours ago, Eris said:

I thought is was reported on TD last year that before the trade the Twins had approached Arraez about an extension and he had declined. I am not sure if this was true. If so, what has changed. 
 

As much as a love watching Arraez bat, he doesn’t really have a defensive spot with the Twins. He could be a full time DH. I guess that would work. Last year Buxton was close to a full time DH when he can’t play in the field. 
 

From my perspective, I would not reverse the previous trade by trading Lopez back to the Marlins for Arraez. Several reasons. The Twins need pitching. Lopez has signed and extension, and we have plenty of players to play 2B. Also, Polanco may be an overall better player (when healthy) than Arraez. 

I get what you’re saying about Polanco “when healthy” but the group has to start seeing the writing on the wall…….he’s breaking down. 108 games in ‘22 & 80 games in ‘23. He’s just a tick more available (less games in ‘23) than Buxton. I just can’t get behind support keeping him on the roster parallel to Buxton, who they can’t move.

Nobody’s trading Lopez anywhere for anyone!

With Kirilloff available and at a little over a million $, it seems instead of trading assets to bring Arráez back to play an average to below average 2B & a bunch at 1B……..again, with Buxton on the roster the DH spot is already pretty crowded, spend the $11M Arraez is owed on Justin Turner. He can be RH platoon at 1B - DH 30 games or more - spell Lewis at 3B once per week. It may take the $11M plus a couple more but Infield Corner is the depth need. If they believe in Martin/Lee they could move Farmer to help pay for the Turner $$.

Arraez at 2B doesn’t seem to be as valuable (maybe not more valuable) as the upside of Julien there. Power/OBP/defense/$$$ combined in the comparison.

[nicksaviking]

This is interesting too:

So if the Twins had him back and asked him to resume working the count like the organization likes, it would also stand to reason his numbers would revert back to what they were pre-trade.

[nicksaviking]

5 minutes ago, In My La Z boy said:

Saddest need expressed in this article is centerfield. It's sickening we need a centerfielder. I'll just say this - how many more runs, and how many more wins would we have had if Arraez was our Apr/May/June DH instead of Buck? I love the Alcantara idea stated above and do think the Marlins could be a partner in some productive way. I love Luis. He'd be the best full time DH in baseball. That's his best position. We learned Byron can't hit if he isn't playing in the field. Not sure what we're going to do here but our greatest need last spring was contact and baserunners. Trade Buxton for Luis. If Arraez plays DH everyday he gets 700 AB's with 240 hits. 

The Marlins aren't trading for Buxton. And the Twins sound like they're expecting him to be back in center this year, so there'd be no reason to sell him low or eat his salary now. If they're wrong, they're just in the same spot they are now, if they're right, they've found themselves in a superior position.

As far as Marlins pitchers go, I want Luzardo or Garrett much more than Alcantara.

[JD-TWINS]

14 hours ago, DJL44 said:

I think it is pretty clear Arraez is a better baseball player than Polanco right now. I'd trade both Kirilloff and Polanco for Arraez and stick him back at 1B where he was good defensively. I'd even add a minor leaguer to sweeten the deal.

An even $$ deal …….Marlins add control with 1 of the two but no real upside for them. Josh Bell is playing first base I believe? I guess Polanco at 2B & Kirilloff at corner OF? Could add a third guy from Minors or maybe add Headrick - Winder to give another arm option in Marlins Pen?

Would a Polanco - Winder - E. Rodriguez get the deal done? Scares many here but dropping Arraez back into Twin’s line-up is intriguing.

Great for Twins as they would have an everyday guy to hit behind Julien. Julien sees even better pitches than now and half the time he gets on at his .380 clip (which may increase in front of Arráez) Arraez advances him to 3B with a base hit or 2B with a walk. Would be a pressure cooker for opposing pitchers with Lewis not far behind these two.

This move may flip the switch to the “offensive minded Twins” that don’t need another high end arm? Something to consider.

[JD-TWINS]

25 minutes ago, In My La Z boy said:

Saddest need expressed in this article is centerfield. It's sickening we need a centerfielder. I'll just say this - how many more runs, and how many more wins would we have had if Arraez was our Apr/May/June DH instead of Buck? I love the Alcantara idea stated above and do think the Marlins could be a partner in some productive way. I love Luis. He'd be the best full time DH in baseball. That's his best position. We learned Byron can't hit if he isn't playing in the field. Not sure what we're going to do here but our greatest need last spring was contact and baserunners. Trade Buxton for Luis. If Arraez plays DH everyday he gets 700 AB's with 240 hits. 

Buxton for Arraez …..on what plane of consciousness does that happen?

Trading Buxton for anyone doesn’t happen, unfortunately.

I do think that the “Buxton can’t hit unless he plays CF” is way overstated by many here. He couldn’t hit because he was hurt & couldn’t even play CF at 29 years old. Nobody hits well if their legs aren’t working. IMO, he plays CF once a week - twice a week maybe a couple times per month. DH’s 80 games and that’s what the new reality will be.

Am hopeful he can pull off the above, if he can actually start 110-120 games it would be his second time over 100 games in what will be his 10th year.

Arraez, somehow back to Twins to hit behind Julien would be special!

[Heiny]

32 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

The Marlins aren't trading for Buxton. And the Twins sound like they're expecting him to be back in center this year, so there'd be no reason to sell him low or eat his salary now. If they're wrong, they're just in the same spot they are now, if they're right, they've found themselves in a superior position.

As far as Marlins pitchers go, I want Luzardo or Garrett much more than Alcantara.

Yeah, but the problem with Luzardo or Garrett is they have Jenkins like value per BTV where Alcantara is at a negative value.  That changes things drastically.

[August J Gloop]

Projection models show the following WRC+. (Salary Braketed)

Arraez  - 118 (at least 10 Million in Arb)

Kepler - 116 (10 Million)

Julien  - 114 (League Minimum)

So no, it's not time to bring him home. 

[nicksaviking]

27 minutes ago, Heiny said:

Yeah, but the problem with Luzardo or Garrett is they have Jenkins like value per BTV where Alcantara is at a negative value.  That changes things drastically.

I'm not looking to trade Jenkins, and the Twins could try to sell Miami on other prospects like Lee first, but no one is off of the table. All I want is to win a World Series, and the Twins won't do that without finding another top of the rotation starter.

Also, Alcantara won't pitch this year, wasn't his usual self last year and doesn't miss too many bats which is what the Twins like to see from their rotation.

[Cody Pirkl]

17 hours ago, wabene said:

This is not very clear. It was originally reported that Kirilloff had a bursa sack removed which was considered a very minor procedure. When they cut him open they were very pleased this was all that was necessary. He was expected to be full go this spring. At least that's what I remember. 

That's the expectation, but a lot of folks were pretty certain Kirilloff would be ready for Opening Day last year and that wasn't the case. Completely different injury, but I guess my point is with a player that has his injury history, it's very possible something comes up before OD, whether it's the shoulder or something else. He's one of the players I wouldn't blame the Twins for if they went completely over the top on an impact backup.

[RpR]

1 hour ago, In My La Z boy said:

Saddest need expressed in this article is centerfield. It's sickening we need a centerfielder. I'll just say this - how many more runs, and how many more wins would we have had if Arraez was our Apr/May/June DH instead of Buck?

How many more runs and how many more losses would we have had without Taylor and his Buxton level fielding in Center Field?

[Cody Pirkl]

19 hours ago, roger said:

Love him, but it ain't gonna happen.

Question, Cody.  What is your source regarding AK's shoulder?

"Continuing to give him troubles" may not be the correct phrasing, but back in mid December the Twins still weren't willing to put a timeline on his return to baseball activity. As usual I'm sure that's about all we'll get for news until Spring Training or unless they acquire another first baseman, in which case we can read the tea leaves.

[Cody Pirkl]

19 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

No. Stop. Please?

I realize it’s the quiet offseason and all but satire is for Friday’s.  I don’t know what it will take for this fan base to ever let anyone get away but we don’t live in that world anymore.  

The Marlins being ok with moving him just makes that trade better and better.  It also further illuminates what some were saying at the time-you don’t build a franchise around a single skill player. No matter how good that skill is.

Then, bring him back to where? Who is losing time for him? We could have weekly articles about how bad we miss Julien or Lee? 

Wait til you hear what Cincy is thinking about CES.

It’s ok for the stove to go cool for a while.  It’s ok for the website to have a few less articles when the temp is below zero.  

It was pretty surprising news that Arraez was available again, and many fans spent much of last year wishing Arraez was still in the lineup. I think there are people that would agree that it's a fun discussion to have.

[RpR]

It would be interesting to have a player who won a batting title both with the Twins and another team, and again with the Twins.

[wabene]

2 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

This is interesting too:

So if the Twins had him back and asked him to resume working the count like the organization likes, it would also stand to reason his numbers would revert back to what they were pre-trade.

Thanks, I thought the same thing when I saw the post that triggered this response, lol. There are 2 misconceptions present on this thread. That Louis saw a ton of pitches and that Buxton somehow mentally can't swing a bat when he is at DH only. The Louis myth was dispelled last year or the year before here on TD. Not sure how you can prove that it was a bad leg not some sort of mental block that caused Buxton's woes. The Catch-22 is that if he is healthy enough to properly swing a bat, he'll be in the field as well, so we will never have that definitive answer.

1 hour ago, Cody Pirkl said:

That's the expectation, but a lot of folks were pretty certain Kirilloff would be ready for Opening Day last year and that wasn't the case. Completely different injury, but I guess my point is with a player that has his injury history, it's very possible something comes up before OD, whether it's the shoulder or something else. He's one of the players I wouldn't blame the Twins for if they went completely over the top on an impact backup.

I think the situation is different this year. Going into last year they said AK would need to be eased in. This season it was stated that the recovery was short enough for him to have a normal off-season. But yes, there are injury concerns all over the roster. I only follow the Twins so I don't know how common this is, but it seems extreme. I'm sure some of these guys dream about what it would be like to have a healthy off-season with no workout restrictions. The Twins do have a backup/platoon mate for AK at first, Miranda. Of course he has injury concerns as well, lol.

[JesusisLord7]

No. I love Arraez. But what we need is a top shelf starting pitcher. I'd move Julien to 1st base and start Brooks Lee at 2nd. I'd trade Polanco for a 17 year old with high upside just to free up cash. If you are guying to trade good prospects it has to be someone that can take the ball in the playoffs and contend well. I think there is a bunch of sentimental like for Arraez but that does not at all fit what we need to win. He is a defensive liability as well even though he is a machine with the bat. 

[FilthyMogwai]

I can't even imagine what it would take to get both Luis Arraez and one of those two SPs. 

Holy smokes!  I don't think Twins fans would be happy with what it would take.

[roger]

3 hours ago, Cody Pirkl said:

"Continuing to give him troubles" may not be the correct phrasing, but back in mid December the Twins still weren't willing to put a timeline on his return to baseball activity. As usual I'm sure that's about all we'll get for news until Spring Training or unless they acquire another first baseman, in which case we can read the tea leaves.

Thanks, Cody, I can now resume breathing!

Was fearful you had recent information that his healing process wasn't going as planned.