Royals 2, Twins 1: First Place Twins Swept by the Last Place Royals

[RpR]

8 minutes ago, LastOnePicked said:

No, it isn't. Some teams know that their talent can't match that goal. Therefore, they conserve resources, avoid making bad trades and create a plan for success later on.

The worst thing to do in this game is to push in all your chips with a bad hand. You lose in the short term and the long term that way. That was 2022 in a nutshell for the Twins. That's shaping up to be 2023 as well.

Even if this team makes the playoffs by some continued Cleveland underperformance, all anyone would see is the playoff futility streak extended to 0-20. No crystal ball needed for that, I assure you.

This team took the series from the Yankees; no crystal ball needed for that.

The Chicken-Little attitude does not mean if they make the play-offs they cannot win a game, regardless no matter how much some here hope they do not.

[Jocko87]

12 minutes ago, LastOnePicked said:

No, it isn't. Some teams know that their talent can't match that goal. Therefore, they conserve resources, avoid making bad trades and create a plan for success later on.

The worst thing to do in this game is to push in all your chips with a bad hand. You lose in the short term and the long term that way. That was 2022 in a nutshell for the Twins. That's shaping up to be 2023 as well.

Even if this team makes the playoffs by some continued Cleveland underperformance, all anyone would see is the playoff futility streak extended to 0-20. No crystal ball needed for that, I assure you.

Two different things.  You are describing different methods to achieve that same objective.  And I would agree with you, the Angels are playing with fire right now.  However, with the two best players on the planet YOLO isn't the worst idea.  If they get in, they can make a run. 

[Jocko87]

10 minutes ago, jkcarew said:

Completely miss the point. I’m not reacting to this week, or even this year. I’m reacting to the status quo. Years. And where did I say fire everybody? Where did I say fire ANYBODY. Straw man.

If you’re happy with ALC division titles, that’s your right…great.

I’m not.

I'm glad you caught that, as I was pointing out the things no one is saying. 

I'm happy with a group that keeps getting better and better.  My window is just larger than most. 

[TwinsAlmostWin]

I think as Twins fans we have the right to tune out of this team, in all ways shapes and sizes, until they start matching expectations. I'm genuinely surprised that I have hope for this organization each year. Nothing changes until something changes, and with the Twins, nothing ever changes. It's always a vat full of disappointment. I feel like I have the "right" to tune out, watch/follow very casually, until they actually win a playoff game, or series, and then start being a full fledged Twins fan again, and not receive ANY push back/"true TWiNs faN wAtCh iN HaRd TIMes tWo' talk. 

[RpR]

You can stop watch paying attention any time you, or any one wants to, not one thing to do with any right.

I follow the Twins because I like baseball; if they a basement dweller, I still listen/watch; if they are a 100  wins game team, I do not follow them any less or more.

If they can or trade a player I like, that has zero to do with frequency I listen to or watch a game.

On another note: I had the "right" to quit paying attention to the Vikings, and I did.😇

[JD-TWINS]

2 hours ago, jkcarew said:

Here’s the problem I have with the “hey we’re still in it”, “chip and a chair” crowd…

You’re rewarding mediocrity. You’re playing right into the hands of an ownership and FO that sell this as ‘success’…year after year. En mass, you provide no incentive for real change, real progress.

The club is still in the ALC race and could still very well win it. I hope they do, and I’ll be cheering them on. But it won’t necessarily mean I think it was a “good” season.

Taking advantage of a terrible division year after year to ‘compete’, and hoping that lightning strikes in the postseason is not a plan…it’s a shell game.

Honestly, I’m to the point where I wish the club was playing in a different division,…I’m guessing that might be the only thing that would light any kind of fire under this organization.

I understand the frustration with the results!!!

Flip side of “FO sucks”:

Our depth acquisitions have paid benefits and been spot on essentially all season: Farmer/Castro/Solano/Taylor…..might not love them but really can’t complain about these guys!

Gallo experiment turned out the way most assumed - he played sound defense at various positions - hit some Bomb HR’s - and struck out 40% of the time - less singles than HR’s, embarrassing.

Pitching staff, even with Mahle going down & Maeda coming back slowly………we’re within a tenth of a run from Baseball lead in ERA! Solid……not perfect but many of the right pieces.

Kirilloff - Julien - Lewis - Jeffers all have produced…..Kepler is now respectable.

………………………….

Polanco has only played 33 games due to injuries.

Buxton - Miranda - Vazquez - CC - the aforementioned Gallo have all been major disappointments. That’s NOT on the FO in my opinion. They can’t go out & play…….even though there doesn’t seem to be a solution with our Batting Coach, it’s not his fault either.

[nmcowboy]

Please, please, PUHLEASE dump Gallo. Don't care if we just release him.  Just get him off the roster!!!!

[mikelink45]

1 hour ago, LastOnePicked said:

Orioles created a plan, followed through and now own the toughest division in baseball. Reds had multiple seasons of fire sales, only to play electric baseball in 2023. Before that, we saw the Astros and Rays move from nothing teams to powerhouses. You get a brilliant GM, a rock-solid development staff and you reap the reward from high draft picks and smart trades.

Yes, it means some basement-dwelling baseball for a decent chunk of years. Honestly, I'd much rather watch a group of young players gel than to watch the likes of Gray, Correa and Gallo underperform.

Of course the Reds had the advantage of trading with the Twins - wait, the Orioles did too!

[mikelink45]

My question is - who is consistent?  When a team is good there are a few players who produce even when the others are down.  But who is that on the Twins team?  Lewis was doing it and got hurt, again.  Kiriloff was doing it and got hurt, again!  Correa was bad, then good, then mediocre.  Polanco was hurt, okay, hurt, and mediocre.  Gallo has stunk after fooling everyone for three weeks.  Buxton has been terrible, but then has a couple games where we all say - he is back!  Kepler was half bad, half good.  Julien has been good.  Wallner has been better that most expected.  Taylor has outperformed Gallo and Buxton so why are so many down on him.  Solano and Farmer have been used more than they were supposed to be.  Same with Castro.  Jeffers has shown, Vasquez has not.  So do we have a playoff ready team?  

I won't do the pitching staff. 

[TwinkieFan4life]

2 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

But see, here's the problem with the fire everyone crowd.  I don't know that I've heard anyone call this a 'success'.  I haven't heard anyone say this is a 'good' season in any crowds I run with, including this board.  It's very easy to create a straw man to argue with and if you can actually point me to that person, I'll argue along side with you.

That person doesn't exist though.  Nobody is making these claims.

No real change or real progress.  My brother in Christ, please look back at the pitching rotation in 2020 and 2021.  Look at the rest of the roster in those years.  It made me gag just a bit when I did.  The monumental leaps this organization has made in the past five years dwarf any other 5 year period in the franchise history.  They still have work to do. I've been saying all year, this is the most talented 40 man roster most of us have seen in our fan lifetimes and I will continue to stand by that.  (yes, 1969 is before my time)

No, it isn't a success.  Yet.  No it hasn't been a good season. Yet.  There is a huge problem in the offensive coaching/strategy department that I'm actually pretty confident they will fix, although maybe not this year.

And I hate to break it to you, but making the postseason and hoping lightning strikes the right spot is literally the main objective of this entire dumb exercise.  If you want to call it a shell game, fine, but its literally everyone's plan. 

And playing in another division might actually be a good thing for this squad.  The same squad that seems to have a problem playing to the level of their opponents.  We might be surprised how well they would do. 

We should all probably do a little less reacting daily and hourly to a weekly and monthly sport.  That said, this has been a really ****** week.

I agree, and don't fault the front office for roster construction (although I really disagree with the Gallo signing and wish we had invested that money in the bullpen lotto).  It is a talented roster.  The problem is that the talented players are consistently hurt/ridiculously underperforming.  Some of that is on the front office for stacking the roster full of injury question marks.

I hope the front office feels secure enough in their job to take a compelling offer if it comes their way for Maeda and Gray.  They have tethered themselves to some bad contracts and traded away a good deal of talent for effectively no return these last two years.  They need to cash in on this opportunity if it presents itself.  This team is clearly going nowhere.

[Bill Lumbergh]

What kind of analytics have a 228 hitter in the lead off spot.  It’s a rhetorical question as I know the answer.  It’s to provide one less opportunity to hit into a double play.  Then a 206 hitter in the 3 spot.  Rocco says Buxton is physically unable to play in the field.  I am missing the analytic that says he can hit.  He belongs in the minors on rehab until he can hit and play the field.  Him and Correa should be in the bottom third of the order but I realize we have an abundance of players for those slots.  Stay put here at the trade deadline.  Nobody wants our under performers and the FO needs to quit dealing prospects that make other teams more competitive and we get the Tyler Mahle’s of the world.

[Aggies7]

3 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

My brother in Christ, please look back at the pitching rotation in 2020 and 2021.  Look at the rest of the roster in those years.  It made me gag just a bit when I did.  The monumental leaps this organization has made in the past five years dwarf any other 5 year period in the franchise history.  They still have work to do. I've been saying all year, this is the most talented 40 man roster most of us have seen in our fan lifetimes and I will continue to stand by that.  (yes, 1969 is before my time)

No, it isn't a success.  Yet.  No it hasn't been a good season. Yet.  There is a huge problem in the offensive coaching/strategy department that I'm actually pretty confident they will fix, although maybe not this year.

And I hate to break it to you, but making the postseason and hoping lightning strikes the right spot is literally the main objective of this entire dumb exercise.  If you want to call it a shell game, fine, but its literally everyone's plan. 

And playing in another division might actually be a good thing for this squad.  The same squad that seems to have a problem playing to the level of their opponents.  We might be surprised how well they would do. 

We should all probably do a little less reacting daily and hourly to a weekly and monthly sport.  That said, this has been a really ****** week.

This is an absolutely wild statement. The last season in which the twins won a playoff series (2002) followed a stretch of years in which the twins lost 92, 93, 94 and 97 games before the breakout year of 2001. The rosters of those teams from 97-00….awful

[wabene]

44 minutes ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

What kind of analytics have a 228 hitter in the lead off spot.  It’s a rhetorical question as I know the answer.  It’s to provide one less opportunity to hit into a double play.  Then a 206 hitter in the 3 spot.  Rocco says Buxton is physically unable to play in the field.  I am missing the analytic that says he can hit.  He belongs in the minors on rehab until he can hit and play the field.  Him and Correa should be in the bottom third of the order but I realize we have an abundance of players for those slots.  Stay put here at the trade deadline.  Nobody wants our under performers and the FO needs to quit dealing prospects that make other teams more competitive and we get the Tyler Mahle’s of the world.

[AceWrigley]

I imagine if Billy Martin was alive and managing the Twins, he wouldn't be happy.

[Danchat]

6 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

I looked it up because I’m a loser and nothing better to do lol

Of teams that have lost 110+ games since 1935, not one has swept a series this late in the season. Until the royals did it this weekend.

This includes: 

1962 Mets (40-120)

2003 Tigers (43-119)

1935 Boston Braves (38-115)

1952 Pirates (42-112)

1939 Browns (43-111)

1941 Phillies (43-111)

the royals came into this series on pace for a record of 42-117

Impressive, I'm glad you did the research - though I have to say I'm interested to see if any sweeps happened earlier in the year?

I also didn't realize how horrid their winning percentage was at this point... woof!

[Aggies7]

18 minutes ago, Danchat said:

Impressive, I'm glad you did the research - though I have to say I'm interested to see if any sweeps happened earlier in the year?

I also didn't realize how horrid their winning percentage was at this point... woof!

Do we count 2 game sweeps? I think 3 is the proper number. 3 game sweeps:
 

The 62 Mets had 0

the 03 tigers had 3 

the 35 braves had 0

The 52 pirates had 0

the 39 browns had 0

the 41 Phillies had 0

royals got their first today 

[Doctor Gast]

Being swept by Royals is an omen that their lamebrain ideas aren't working & that everything is out of sinc, Keep Polanco at 2B, Lewis at 3B move Julien to 1B. Gallo was a waste of time & money that fit their philosophy.

[Doctor Wu]

Back to the original article, being swept by the lowly Royals. Yes, as has been said already, this was VERY embarrassing. We have single-handedly turned Bobby Witt, Jr. into a star player.  Is it too late for a wake-up call? Will anyone snap out of their slumber in any event? This has been yet another frustrating season. So much potential, but very lackluster results. I look at this current club and I just don't see one that will be competitive in the playoffs. It's just not clicking the way it needs to. 

[laloesch]

12 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

No, it isn't. Some teams know that their talent can't match that goal. Therefore, they conserve resources, avoid making bad trades and create a plan for success later on.

The worst thing to do in this game is to push in all your chips with a bad hand. You lose in the short term and the long term that way. That was 2022 in a nutshell for the Twins. That's shaping up to be 2023 as well.

Even if this team makes the playoffs by some continued Cleveland underperformance, all anyone would see is the playoff futility streak extended to 0-20. No crystal ball needed for that, I assure you.

They aren't playing poker this is MLB baseball.  All of those chips in, bad hand, etc., analogies are irrelevant.  THE number one IMMEDIATE objective of EVERY major league team (i don't care what anyone says) is to make the playoffs every season.  This game is about percentages and probabilities.  If you don't make the playoffs you have 0% chance of a title, that's a big fat Z E R O.  It's as simple as that.  Long term planning, prospect development, trades that hurt in the short term but benefit in the long term, budget constraints, etc., obviously factor in but let's not kid ourselves and pretend that franchises don't want to make the playoffs every season to avoid "pushing all their chips in on a bad hand."   To think otherwise is sheer lunacy.

[LastOnePicked]

28 minutes ago, laloesch said:

They aren't playing poker this is MLB baseball.  All of those chips in, bad hand, etc., analogies are irrelevant.  THE number one IMMEDIATE objective of EVERY major league team (i don't care what anyone says) is to make the playoffs every season.

Well, apparently you know what's on the mind of every GM and FO, so what can I tell you? However, if you want to expand your opinion, check out some of the interviews the Orioles GM gave in 2020 about their plan. Here's the gist: no, their immediate objective was not to make the playoffs. Their immediate objective was to ready themselves for a title run in the toughest division in baseball.

Perhaps your argument is that, because the Twins are seemingly close to the playoffs this year, that they should push hard to make it. My argument is that this team is not close to playoff caliber. Not even close. This should have been year 3 of a rebuild. But we'll all have to see how it plays out.

[John Belinski]

Putting Gallo in to hit in 9th inning was a total waste of a chance to win. Jeffers would have been a much better choice based on batting average. Everyone, but Rocco knew Gallo would strike out and everyone was right. Gallo had 2 chances to get a hit, slim and none, but slim was out of town.

[saviking]

We need another right handed bat they. Our lineup had 8 right-hander and one lefty. Only run came from the lefty. It's not the side of the plate. It's the players AT the plate. 

[Karbo]

17 hours ago, Peter said:

Embarrassing and unacceptable!!!!!🤬😡🤬😡as far as I’m concerned gallo played his last game as a twin!!! We definitely need to shake things up at deadline-trade one if our outfielders for power hitter/trade sonny/one of pitchers in bullpen padres closer/starter. You can’t sell!!! Even though it sucks we got swept!!! You can’t. I’m beyond upset about losing but if twins don’t win division it’s wasted season. 

I'm guessing they keep Gallo with AK going on the IL, unless they get someone else that can play 1st.

[Karbo]

16 hours ago, CRF said:

There need to be some changes made, but I don't think much is going to happen by Tues afternoon at 5pm. I think we'll pretty much stand pat. I think Gallo is still here, I doubt we'll add a righty bat, and we'll probably add a middling RP from somewhere. I just can't see this FO making many moves, even though they've done that in the past. I think this year is different. I sure hope I'm wrong. 

At this point I don't know if it would be worth it to add, unless its addition by subtraction

[Whitey333]

Plenty of people in the Twibs organization from the president through the gm and manager keep telling us we have a good ball club with a good chance of going to the world series.  The over hype is ridiculous.  I'm also convinced that this team is content with mediocrity.  There is no drive, no leadership, very little enthusiasm, very little field managing and coaching.  I want a team that is competitive, that doesn't make excuses for poor play, that actually cares about the fans, that actually can make effective trades, that can scout and that can be honest with fans.  Trying to sell a 500 team as good in a kindergarten division is unprofessional.  Most twins fans can see what you are selling us is a mediocre team.  We have a FO that makes many more bad trades than good ones.  We seem to only be satisfied trading for oft injured players.  We sign free agents for 11 million dollars with a career 199 batting average that strikes out over 40% of time and tries to tell us its OK.  That's baseball.  That IMO is why we are where we are at.  We have mediocrity because apparently that's what management wants to sell.  Twins fans deserve better than that.  

[David Maro]

Lefty starting for KC let's stack the lineup with 8 right handed bats. Worst team in baseball hitting Lefty's. Why not make a change. Game was decided early with Correa and Buxton striking out in the 1st. Can't hit 70 mph curveball. Reminded me of movie Trouble with the Curve!! Apparently then decide to give the RF some fielding practice. Same time as last year falling out of 1st and making the injury excuse. The SP was off to the best start in years and wasted by the manager,coaches and players. FO can't make the right choice on paying the right kind of players. Donaldson didn't fit and Correa doesn't fit. Buxton needed to go two or three years ago. Time to sell any and all players that other teams may want. Polhad's need to put FO on notice and Rocco out the door.