Twins Lose Danny Coulombe to the Orioles

[VivaBomboRivera!]

Unforced error 

[DJL44]

4 hours ago, Dman said:

Not sure if you read the article but Seth posted the following (See below).  It is not like Coulombe was an elite reliever.  He is on the fringe of pretty much any teams 26 man roster.  Hate to lose a lefty as we don't have a ton, but they have guys who can fill that roll.

"That potentially means two veteran relievers with a lot of big-league service time lost. However, that doesn't mean that the Twins are in a bad place in terms of depth. Cole Sands is starting the season as the long reliever (pending any deals, of course). Josh Winder and Ronny Henriquez will start the season on the Injured List but could be ready for a bullpen role in the near future. Trevor Megill is at Triple-A as are non-roster options such as Jose De Leon, Randy Dobnak, Austin Schulfer, Aaron Sanchez, Oliver Ortega, Brock Stewart, Patrick Murphy, Dereck Rodriguez, Blayne Enlow, and several of the starting pitchers in Triple-A if needed. As for left-handers, the options would include Sean Nolin and Jordan Brink, as well as a sleeper contributor for 2023 (in my opinion), Kody Funderburk. Brent Headrick could get bullpen looks if needed."

I read the article. That is definitely a list of names.

They will need to pay attention to the waiver wire.

[DJL44]

4 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

That's what was said about Jax last year.

You think last year's bullpen was good?

Cole Sands might develop into a good reliever but there's no reason to put him on the big league roster on scholarship.

[mikelink45]

1 hour ago, Seth Stohs said:

Jorge Lopez?? Compared to Danny Coulombe?

Not a comparison - just a concern = Pagan is someone I have no faith in and Lopez has a lot to prove so I want to keep those who might step in if both of them fail us.

[Seth Stohs]

4 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Mahle and Maeda are both coming back from injury, Sonny Gray pitches 120 innings per year on average, and Joe Ryan pitched a personal record 147 innings last year….

I bet the cumulative long man innings exceed Maeda’s and maybe Mahle too

Only if they're hurt... but if those guys are hurt, they'll go to Ober and then Varland and then SWR... Those guys would eat some innings as well. 

[Seth Stohs]

1 hour ago, mikelink45 said:

Not a comparison - just a concern = Pagan is someone I have no faith in and Lopez has a lot to prove so I want to keep those who might step in if both of them fail us.

Yeah, no one has any faith in Pagan. That's been a topic for about 11 months now... 

But there isn't a team or organization that would take Danny Coulombe over Jorge Lopez. And Hoffman looked good this spring, but it was like 2-3 outings... and he's got an opt-out. 

[Seth Stohs]

2 hours ago, DJL44 said:

I read the article. That is definitely a list of names.

They will need to pay attention to the waiver wire.

That's... what... they do... (I mean, every team does and uses it, but we've seen this front office more than happy to make changes to the fringes of the 26 and 40 man rosters. 

[D.C Twins]

4 hours ago, Seth Stohs said:

Coulombe definitely doesn't have more upside than Sands. Sands throws much harder, has much more spin and break... Not saying he'll put up the numbers or even be as effective, or even have the same role... but just based on upside, Sands has more. 

Coulombe is a nice lefty reliever. He had a nice camp. He is a solid contributor. But his spring performance may, or may not mean he's 'locked in this year.' 

Others who put together great spring trainings, like Coulombe's, and made the Twins Opening Day roster.... Aaron Thompson, Matt Maloney, Dusty Hughes. 

I didn't know about Coulombe's opt-out. That definitely changes things, but I don't know that it should affect or alter the front office's thinking. 

Then again, I don't disagree on the comment on Pagan! 

Good points Seth!

More specifically I should have used the term 'command' (which I think often dictates RP variability year over year) instead of 'locked in.'

I worry that Sands will not have the command that Coulombe will have this season and therefore not be as useful despite better velo and spin rate. 

But, I'm definitely not a baseball scout so we shall see (and I hope that I'm wrong)

[weitz41]

13 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

I was more excited about Hoffman than Coulombe, but I guess these moves make sense. Moran and Sands can be optioned when fresh arms are needed, which will likely be often with the early season schedule.

 

12 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

I think you mean the opposite? Sands made the club because they CAN send him down, and will need to often and early.

What are they going to do a week into the season when they have Hoffman and Coulombe in an overused pen and need to send someone down? Moran can't be the only option. They going to send down Duran and Jax if they need fresh arms? Just cut the super fringy guys, and Coulombe is super fringy. He's a 33-year-old soft tossing, junk throwing lefty who pitched 12 innings for the club last year. I'm failing to see the fasciation other than with which arm he throws with.

This is where I'm at on this.

Depth, flexibility and defense is what the FO did this offseason. Neither Coulombe or Hoffman are optionable and have minimal upside.

Pagan, Pagan, PAGAN! is this seasons "Cheap Pohlad's"...

[miracleb]

Sands has really done nothing yet to show he belongs in the majors.  Coulombe has.....with the TWINS!

[Jeff D.]

Sometimes you just scratch your head.

Orioles Win and Twins Lose on this one. Yet Pagan stays.

Go Twins!

Twins Geezer.....out!

[rv78]

Sometimes I wonder why they play spring-training games. For the Twins it surely isn't to earn a spot on the roster. If it was Coulombe would be there. I'm not a big fan of him but it seems no matter how good some guys play, they don't make it and no matter how bad some guys play, they do. Evidently age, how the player is going to be used, and spin rate are more concerning factors, verses performance with this FO, and that my friends is why guys like Pagan, Sands, and Megill who haven't shown much success, and one could argue... if any at all, get spots they haven't earned. I suspect that Pagan will be this years Tyler Duffey getting cut midseason and Ober, Winder and SWR will get more innings combined than Maeda or Mahle.

[chpettit19]

14 hours ago, GKuehl said:

In your hypothetical, they could have used Coulombe for a week or two and then DFA’d him and called up Sands. Or another reliever might get injured and we wouldn’t want Coulombe on the St. Paul-Minneapolis express. 

The “fascination” stems from the fact we just lost a pitcher for nothing who had a 2.92 ERA in 49.1 innings as a Twin. 

I think the bigger hurdle with Coulombe making it over Sands opening day is there wasn't a 40-man spot for him. They'd have to DFA someone (assuming Castro is taking the 1 open spot already) to get Coulombe on the roster. Which is why I think the Coulombe over Pagan argument is better. Take Pagan off the 40-man and put Coulombe on.

[HoskenPowell]

The front office has hitched it's wagon to Pagan. If he fail's this year it's time to replace the front office.   As horrendous as the Pagan trade turned out , this doubles down the buffoonery in trusting Pagan........their jobs had BETTER be on the line now with this dumb decision.

[stringer bell]

10 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I think the bigger hurdle with Coulombe making it over Sands opening day is there wasn't a 40-man spot for him. They'd have to DFA someone (assuming Castro is taking the 1 open spot already) to get Coulombe on the roster. Which is why I think the Coulombe over Pagan argument is better. Take Pagan off the 40-man and put Coulombe on.

That's what I would have done (Coulombe for Pagan). I only hope it isn't purely a money thing. The FO and Rocco seemed determined to have a guy who can go multiple innings, so it was a competition based only on that ability. Add in that Coulombe would have to be added at the expense of a DFA (or 60-day IL assignment for someone) and that he couldn't be optioned and the Twins chose the "more flexibility" route. 

One thought that occurred to me is that maybe this indicates that either or both of Winder and Henriquez is closer to being ready to perform than I've thought. First of all, neither was placed on the 60-day IL, secondly one of those two will be a candidate to switch places with Sands if the 40-man roster remains full.

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

That's what I would have done (Coulombe for Pagan). I only hope it isn't purely a money thing. The FO and Rocco seemed determined to have a guy who can go multiple innings, so it was a competition based only on that ability. Add in that Coulombe would have to be added at the expense of a DFA (or 60-day IL assignment for someone) and that he couldn't be optioned and the Twins chose the "more flexibility" route. 

One thought that occurred to me is that maybe this indicates that either or both of Winder and Henriquez is closer to being ready to perform than I've thought. First of all, neither was placed on the 60-day IL, secondly one of those two will be a candidate to switch places with Sands if the 40-man roster remains full.

If I'm remembering correctly, Henriquez started throwing again a little while back so it could be that Sands is holding that spot. I'd expect Sands is at, or near, the bottom of the 40-man at this point. They won't take him off if they don't need to, but a really rough April from him and an injury to a catcher could lead to him being the DFA to get a catcher on the 40-man (just an example of a need for a 40-man spot). I think Sands is pitching for his 40-man spot in April almost as much as his 26-man spot. I don't like his chances, but this is why they play the games. I hope him and Pagan both prove me wrong, but I'm not excited about the pen including both of them at this point.

[Doctor Gast]

I was hoping for Coulombe as a LHRP depth but I wish him well. I'm still not crazy about Sands as long relief, Pagan?

[jmlease1]

I liked Coulombe as lefty depth, but I'm much higher on Moran as a significant contributor. (and Moran is younger, cheaper, better, and has more upside) And much as I share everyone's frustration with the Twins sticking with Pagan, they're probably not competing for the same spot. How much work would we have gotten out of a 3rd lefty in the bullpen? as a decent, but not elite lefty that's where Coulombe would be in the pecking order behind Thielbar & Moran.

Would have loved to have stashed him in AAA as insurance against injury/ineffectiveness, but he had an out and he took it. Good move by him.

So let's not get too excited here: he's a 33 year-old reliever who has never had an elite season in his entire career and has bounced between decent and "meh". he was solid but unspectacular in 2021 and didn't pitch enough in 2020 or 2022 to be impactful for the Twins. And other teams are going to know about the out, so it's going to be very very hard to trade him for anything, even a bucket of balls.

[Tyler from Oregon]

Other people have said it, but losing Coulombe while retaining Pagan feels like a slap in the ol' face of the fans.

[nicksaviking]

13 hours ago, DJL44 said:

You think last year's bullpen was good?

Cole Sands might develop into a good reliever but there's no reason to put him on the big league roster on scholarship.

I want the most talented guys on the roster. They stuck with the vets on offense and in the rotation over the more talented young guys, at least they’re not doing it in the pen.

I’m really stumped by the frustration over this. The Twins basically lost a LOOGY except the rules changed so LOOGYs are forced to pitch a full inning and against righties. This is not a big deal. People are acting like they cut Dennis Eckersley, not a guy vying for the last spot on the roster.

[MMMordabito]

Moran will make us forget about Coulombe before the snow finishes melting here in the metro.

[DJL44]

23 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I’m really stumped by the frustration over this.

I'm not frustrated that Coulombe is gone. I'm frustrated that they somehow couldn't find someone better than Cole Sands to make the roster.

[nicksaviking]

12 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I'm not frustrated that Coulombe is gone. I'm frustrated that they somehow couldn't find someone better than Cole Sands to make the roster.

What does that have to do with Coulombe? If they kept him wouldn’t you be more frustrated they didn’t find someone better than him?

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

What does that have to do with Coulombe? If they kept him wouldn’t you be more frustrated they didn’t find someone better than him?

Coulombe was one of the guys they brought in this offseason to compete for a spot. Hoffman was another. None of them apparently turned out to be anything special. It sucks to lose Coulombe because the options in AAA are even worse.

The front office has been obsessed with acquiring depth everywhere except the bullpen.

[nicksaviking]

7 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Coulombe was one of the guys they brought in this offseason to compete for a spot. Hoffman was another. None of them apparently turned out to be anything special. It sucks to lose Coulombe because the options in AAA are even worse.

The front office has been obsessed with acquiring depth everywhere except the bullpen.

Good. The lineup looks like a disaster with a collection of extremely low ceiling vets. Buxton, Correa, Miranda, bathroom break. The starting 2B and 1B are out and the team's best hitting prospect, who can play both spots, is going to sit in AAA because there's somehow STILL no room for him? How many injuries will it take to see Julien, let alone the rest of the young hitters?

The rotation looks really solid, but unless we actually think this is a World Series contender, is it worth punting a year of experience on the top arms in the minors, who have already shown they're ready to learn at the MLB level? Most will likely struggle for a year, so we're going to do that next year now? When the offense should be ready to take off?

At least we get to watch the young guys in the bullpen. Do we really want more of the reliever versions of Donovan Solano taking up bullpen spots? And the options in AAA are not worse. Ober, Varland, SWR and Winder would all be preferable to Coulombe. And maybe that's where they can get the needed experience.

 

[DJL44]

3 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Ober, Varland, SWR and Winder would all be preferable to Coulombe. And maybe that's where they can get the needed experience.

They're not going to bring up Ober, Varland or SWR to be a 1 inning reliever. It's a bad idea and they've said they won't do it. They need all three stretched out as starters or they're just trading their lack of depth in the bullpen for lack of depth in the rotation.

Winder is (predictably) injured.

[Shaitan]

He looked good in a tiny sample last April, but I don't think he moves the needle either way.

Now he gets a MLB job. Good for him.

[Mike Sixel]

When did he last sign a MLB deal? I don't get the angst, frankly. I'm happy for him, but I don't think this matters to the Twins much at all. 

Also, Winder was pitching on a back field today.....

[Dave The Dastardly]

5 hours ago, MMMordabito said:

Moran will make us forget about Coulombe before the snow finishes melting here in the metro.

July 1st?

[Mike Sixel]

9 minutes ago, Dave The Dastardly said:

July 1st?

Optimism! got to love it.