Twins Trade Gio Urshela to the Los Angeles Angels

[Vanimal46]

6 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Not sure how I feel about this yet....he played 98 games at SS, are they not signing a SS? Seems pricey just to be a utility guy.

Farmer won’t prevent them from signing Correa. He looks like a break glass in case of emergency SS if they strike out on Correa. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Vanimal46 said:

Farmer won’t prevent them from signing Correa. He looks like a break glass in case of emergency SS if they strike out on Correa. 

5.9 million is a lot of insurance.....(If I read that right).

[Brandon]

9 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Not sure how I feel about this yet....he played 98 games at SS, are they not signing a SS? Seems pricey just to be a utility guy.

Cheaper than Marwin Gonzales was for us a few years back.  this guy almost hits like Urshala.  same power.  less average.

[Vanimal46]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

5.9 million is a lot of insurance.....(If I read that right).

3 million less than Urshela. If he can play SS he can play 3B. 

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, Vanimal46 said:

3 million less than Urshela. If he can play SS he can play 3B. 

If Miranda isn't at third, he's no DH......and Arraez is at first, I assume. 

[Squirrel]

4 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

5.9 million is a lot of insurance.....(If I read that right).

Unless they are able to flip him. I mean, I hope this isn’t their plan, but it doesn’t mean they can’t sign someone else. Unless he can play 3rd?

[Vanimal46]

4 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

If Miranda isn't at third, he's no DH......and Arraez is at first, I assume. 

How is this situation any different if we tendered Urshela? 

[Vanimal46]

6 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Unless they are able to flip him. I mean, I hope this isn’t their plan, but it doesn’t mean they can’t sign someone else. Unless he can play 3rd?

If he can start 98 games at SS he can play 3B. This is basically getting Urshela’s value for $3 million less. 

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

How is this situation any different if we tendered Urshela? 

Urshela only cost money and was already here....I wasn't sure they should, and they didn't. I assumed that meant Miranda at third. Now? I'm not sure. Because I have no interest in Miranda being the primary DH.

[mikelink45]

Just not sure about this.  I really need to see a bigger spreadsheet because I am not sure we have covered the bases with the quality we need.  

[nicksaviking]

8 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Cheaper than Marwin Gonzales was for us a few years back.  this guy almost hits like Urshala.  same power.  less average.

Yeah, I was thinking if Marwin too. Whether it was Farmer or Urshela, I didn’t peg this player as a starter anyway. 
 

But dang, the Twins and Reds sharing an office these days? They do a lot of swapping.

[wsnydes]

4 hours ago, ashbury said:

I dunno.  Doing that may have raised more questions than it answers.  ?

You're right!  Now I'm curious.  If you have two guys manning first base at the same time, is that like two base runners on the same base?  Is one of them out?  Is that a double negative, resulting in an extra out for the offense? 

I'M SO CONFUSED!!!!

[William K Johnson]

Miranda cannot play third.   He can't even play first well.

[DocBauer]

I like Urshela as a player and as a clubhouse guy. I would have been very happy to see him stay. He's good, not great, but good. But he isn't part of the future. Regardless of the Correa situation...or any of the other top FA SS...you simply have to make room for the young ballplayers in your system. It's the same situation when we talk about making room in the rotation for young arms vs yet another Shoemaker, Happ, Bundy, Archer type of signing.

Miranda moves to 3B now, with the ability to also play 1B. And Lewis and Lee...not forgetting Julien...are options also at 3B/SS/2B going forward depending on how the SS situation gets handled. All young, inexpensive, controllable, more talented, and full of potential. Again, I like Urshela, he has value, but he wasn't going to be part of 2024 and beyond and this makes sense. It also frees up some extra $ to be added to the pot for other additions. 

I thought Urshela might have brought a little more back, say a AA player or arm. But with only 1yr of control left, the Twins appeared to go for a younger arm with more upside rather than someone higher in the Angels chain but maybe with a lower ceiling.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

4 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

There's a lot of money off the books right now and a front office that hasn't impressed me with an aggressiveness to go get "their guy".

Color me skeptical. While in a vacuum trading Urshela isn't a terrible idea, I would have rather seen Kepler head out of Minnesota.

Kep probably will be traded also.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

Gio, Thanks for an awesome year with the Twins.  I understand why it was good for the team to trade Gio, but I will miss his hustle and his demeanor.  I wish Gio the very best.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

3 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Lewis is out for a good chunk of the year.  Lee hasn't seen one major league pitch, MIranda is unproven at third base.  Right now, they do not have a major league 3B.

Putting a lot of unproven young guys at key positions is the textbook definition of a rebuild.  Look at the roster as-is, and you will see a ton of 1-2 year guys.  My comment was not to be taken as fact, but more of keeping the antennas up.  We need to wait and see what happens with other higher salary guys:  Kepler, Gray... there was some rumblings of Polanco being trade bait earlier this year.

I am withholding further judgement until the entire offseason plays out 

Miranda looked OK at 3B to me when he played there this last season.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

59 minutes ago, wsnydes said:

You're right!  Now I'm curious.  If you have to guys manning first base at the same time, is that like two base runners on the same base?  Is one of them out?  Is that a double negative, resulting in an extra out for the offense? 

I'M SO CONFUSED!!!!

Yes and no.

[jmlease1]

I'm on record that I would have tendered Urshela and kept him for 2023. But I'd rather they dealt him for something than non-tender him to be sure.

Definitely a move that's hard to evaluate before all the off-season moves are in. They got back a reasonable prospect for a quality MLB player who was getting a little more expensive and only had one year left of team control. They have an in-house option for 3B that makes a lot of sense. But they absolutely, have to spend money and do it wisely this offseason, or they're going get deservedly bashed.

I'll miss Urshela, who was a solid player. Would not have been my choice to deal him, but I'm going to reserve judgment...for now.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

3 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

In a vacuum I don't like it, Urshela has value.

But since we're not in a vacuum, there are plenty of signs that portend this is a great move. This team has so much available money to spend in free agency now. I mean, they have large-market kind of money to spend.

Also, it should be noted that moving him, all but hands the job to the young player who Carlos Correa appeared to adore the most. A player who he all but demanded not be traded at the deadline.

Hmmm. Interesting. Plus Miranda is training with Correa this off season.

[IndianaTwin]

4 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I will reserve judgement until the end of the off-season. 

More moves to come... I assume.  

Reserving judgment is not allowed on TD. Around here, we go ahead and declare the offseason an abject failure if we haven’t addressed all needs by Thanksgiving. 
 

/s

[DocBauer]

58 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Farmer won’t prevent them from signing Correa. He looks like a break glass in case of emergency SS if they strike out on Correa. 

This!

Thinking BIG PICTURE about the roster for next year I always come up with some sort of 12 man position grouping with room for 1 more. Just examine for a moment: 2 catchers, Arraez, Polanco, Miranda and SS TBD, Larnach, Buxton, Gordon, Kepler/Wallner, and a RH OF TBD. ASSUME Kirilloff is actually ready to go at 1B/OF. That's 12 with a 13th spot to fill. While I like Gordon and think he's actually going to still improve, he's the only "cover" for multiple positions. And yes, you can live with that most days and maybe add a defense first speed guy to the OF who rarely starts. OR, you can add another DH/1B bat like Bell or Abreu, etc. 

OR, you can add someone like Farmer who is, yes, a break glass temp SS, but who can play multiple positions to provide additional infield depth and not just have Gordon, freeing him to do whatever he needs to do in the infield, outfield, and even pinch run. And if Gordon is filling in at CF, you still have another veteran infielder to fill in where needed. And let's face it, until Lewis, Lee, and Julien are ready, infield depth at St Paul is currently non-existant.

I think this is a smart move.

Rough payroll calculation: $90M if/when/logically/hopefully Pagan is moved, minus Urshela, add in Farmer...$86M. Minus a very possible Kepler move, a $78M payroll. That's over $60M to spend to just reach 2022 numbers. Add in just a 5% bump for league wide "inflation" of expected payroll...and the Twins maybe even hitting the $150M mark...the Twins still have, potentially, $67-70M to still dole out for additions.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

2 hours ago, howeda7 said:

If there was any doubt that Falvey is a clown who needs to be fired, keeping Pagan while trading Urshela for that little of a return removes it. Just moronic on both counts.

Falvey is no clown. You may disagree with this move, however many posters here, including me, have praised the move, as a wise money move to help the Twins hire more help at positions which are more bare for the Twins than 3B.

[Vanimal46]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Urshela only cost money and was already here....I wasn't sure they should, and they didn't. I assumed that meant Miranda at third. Now? I'm not sure. Because I have no interest in Miranda being the primary DH.

A 40 man for 40 man swap. Doesn’t seem like a big deal. We get some more middle infield flexibility for $3 million less. I like what happened today. 

[DocBauer]

16 minutes ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

Kep probably will be traded also.

A recent podcast with John and Aaron...as well as Dan Hayes... used the term "freezer burn" in regard to Kepler. While a slightly jaded term, it's appropriate. If the Twins were in the market for a LH OF with great defense and power and a solid overall game, he'd be the kind of talented, bounceback guy you might be looking at. But sometimes it's just time for the team and player to have a fresh start. And I think that's where we are at in regard to Kepler. I've been a Max fan and supporter since the day he was signed. And if he's kept, I won't be upset, and will hope for a rebound. But with Larnach, Wallner, Kirilloff, and Gordon knocking on the door for playing time and opportunity, along with whoever they add as a much needed RH, it's just time for both parties to go a different direction. It makes me sad to say that, but I believe it's true.

[VivaBomboRivera!]

Cross-posting from another topic on the subject in the forums.

Adding that until we see how the rest of the hot stove season plays out, it is too early to understand the full context of both moves.  However, if Farmer is to be on the Opening Day roster, then today's actions mean that the Twins have downgraded the left side of the infield to save $3 million, which is really not big money even for their payroll size. 
Pay the difference for the better player, and find another way to save the money. Or better yet, just bump your payroll from $140 to $143 million, and sit back and watch a winning ball club.

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, VivaBomboRivera! said:

Cross-posting from another topic on the subject in the forums.

Adding that until we see how the rest of the hot stove season plays out, it is too early to understand the full context of the move.  However, if Farmer is to be on the Opening Day roster, then today's actions mean that the Twins have downgraded the left side of the infield to save $3 million, which is really not big money even for their payroll size. 
Pay the difference for the better player, and find another way to save the money. Or better yet, just bump your payroll from $140 to $143 million, and sit back and watch a winning ball club.

They also upgraded the minor league system, and got rid of a minor league player that needed to be on the 40 man, for a better one that doesn't. 

[VivaBomboRivera!]

17 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

They also upgraded the minor league system, and got rid of a minor league player that needed to be on the 40 man, for a better one that doesn't. 

Plenty of other ways to accomplish that, right?

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, VivaBomboRivera! said:

Plenty of other ways to accomplish that, right?

I said also ... Clearly they did other things, but those weren't the only things. I guess somehow I wasn't clear about that. 

[ashbury]

4 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

 

Fooey.  Started to say something, then fact-checked and it's not worth trying to save.  Never mind.