Would you sign Andrelton Simmons to a one-year, $5m contract?

[sabeck]

Never.  Don't bring back Simmons for $1 million.  Go find some better pitching.  As others have noted, we have several candidates to play shortstop.  Frankly, Polanco was an all-star shortstop. But the wizards believed he needed to be moved to second.  It cost him half a season last year getting used to playing a new position.  Then he got hot.  If Lewis is who everyone thinks, he should be able to play short and Gordon as a utility guy can supplement.  I repeat, Go Find Better Pitching. 

[arby58]

22 hours ago, mnfireman said:

So when did they start letting posts go into politics (vaccinations). I've seen threads get shut down for less, but now its the admins and moderators going against community standards so it must be OK.

Like the guy or don't like guy, that's fine. Keep the politics out of it. 

It's not politics to note, as the AP did in a story in April 2021, that "Minnesota Twins shortstop Andrelton Simmons has tested positive for the coronavirus and was placed on the COVID-19 injured list Wednesday before the team's doubleheader against the Boston Red Sox. Simmons has said he doesn't plan to get the COVID-19 vaccine, which was made available in a single-shot dosage to the team at Target Field last Thursday."

Those are facts - he chose not to get the vaccine, and the Twins lost their starting shortstop for regular season games as a result. I've read people beat up Byron Buxton for being 'injury prone' by missing games because of a baseball to his head resulting in a concussion and a baseball to his hand, resulting in broken bones. I'd take Buxton in my clubhouse before Simmons.

[Murph]

I think he's a "last-resort," because he's slow and he doesn't hit.  He's a great fielder, but that's ALL he is.  Polanco needs to stay at 2nd base.  There are SS out there - the Twins just don't want to pay for one.  Isiah Kiner-Falefa SHOULD be available.  We should go get him. The Rangers don't need him, anymore.

The Twins inaction has clearly indicated they aren't motivated to improve their rotation. Sad. We ALL know that the win/loss record really does come down to pitching and defense.  We're not gonna be a factor until we get some pitching, and it doesn't much matter what else we do.  

 

[Kipp35]

On 12/8/2021 at 7:15 AM, Brock Beauchamp said:

The Twins should have so much money available that $5m to Simmons shouldn't change their pitching plans, though.

After Polanco's monstrous 2021 campaign at second, I think it's foolish to even consider him at short in 2022, especially considering how bad he is at playing the position now.

The Twins need a shortstop. I'm not sure Simmons is the guy but they need a shortstop and they don't have one. Neither Gordon nor Polanco are really legitimate options as MLB shortstops, or at least the Twins are convinced of that being the case.

Should have money is the BIG sentence. How much money they spend with depend greatly on what the new CBA says they HAVE to as a floor budget. If they have the money you believe they do, why was they only move they made extending Buxton and signing Bundy? In the time that deal [Buxton] got done, numerous fits for the Twins went off the board: Syndergaard, Seager, Baez, Cobb, Gray, Hill, Kluber, Matz, Paxton, Stroman, Wacha... these are just some FA signings, there have been several trades made as well. We prioritized extending an often injured player that was still under team control before we figured out what we could do to fill holes and team needs.

I hope we do sign Story. But I agree, that is not a 'Twins' move. We [meaning the Twins] need to accept this is a rebuilding time and bring the young guys up and roll with them through the season. We may lose 100+ games again, but we may also find out for sure what we have for talent. And who knows, a couple or more might surprise people when given the opportunity to play.

[mnfireman]

1 hour ago, arby58 said:

It's not politics to note, as the AP did in a story in April 2021, that "Minnesota Twins shortstop Andrelton Simmons has tested positive for the coronavirus and was placed on the COVID-19 injured list Wednesday before the team's doubleheader against the Boston Red Sox. Simmons has said he doesn't plan to get the COVID-19 vaccine, which was made available in a single-shot dosage to the team at Target Field last Thursday."

Those are facts - he chose not to get the vaccine, and the Twins lost their starting shortstop for regular season games as a result. I've read people beat up Byron Buxton for being 'injury prone' by missing games because of a baseball to his head resulting in a concussion and a baseball to his hand, resulting in broken bones. I'd take Buxton in my clubhouse before Simmons.

Sano, Astudillo, Gordon, Colina, Thielbar, Kepler, Garlick, Happ....all Twins players who lost time due to Covid-19, bad teammates also? The AP also said that Simmons case was unrelated to all other cases. 

As I said, like him or don't like him, leave the Covid, the vaccine and the politics out of it. 

 

 

[MMMordabito]

I'd settle for Simmons at 1yr/$5M, only because I agree with the response above about the value of continuity up the defensive middle.  I would hope that all stones are unearthed before doing this though.  Obviously, the gold stones have already been taken, don't appear to be of interest or may just be pyrite.

Iglesias seems to be a popular fallback, but his dramatic fall in UZR is a concern.  Is that an outlier at age 31 or just good old fashioned decline?  He was much worse than Simmons in that regard in '21.  His bat was quite a bit better, so maybe it's a wash. 

I'm definitely in the camp that Polanco is the second baseman going forward.  I see that position as locked up through 2025, and I hope his ankle holds up enough that he can end up being a Twin for life. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

33 minutes ago, Kipp35 said:

If they have the money you believe they do, why was they only move they made extending Buxton and signing Bundy?

I think the problem was two-fold:

1. This front office, for good or bad, are loathe to hand out $100m+ contracts to free agents unless the stars align in a way they find perfect, or at least very favorable to them.

2. While sorting out the Buxton extension - which in fairness, was quite complicated - they were caught with their pants down as the rest of baseball suddenly kicked into overdrive on a level I've never seen in an offseason before. That doesn't make their failure to sign a player okay and they absolutely should have read the tea leaves more accurately but I think that's part of the reason they clamored to pick up the scraps of Bundy just moments before the lockout went into place. They expected the market to fall to them after the lockout and instead the market packed its bags and left for Dallas before the lockout even happened.

[Wax Kepler]

2 hours ago, sabeck said:

Never.  Don't bring back Simmons for $1 million.  Go find some better pitching.  As others have noted, we have several candidates to play shortstop.  Frankly, Polanco was an all-star shortstop. But the wizards believed he needed to be moved to second.  It cost him half a season last year getting used to playing a new position.  Then he got hot.  If Lewis is who everyone thinks, he should be able to play short and Gordon as a utility guy can supplement.  I repeat, Go Find Better Pitching. 

Don't sign Simmons even if only $1 mil. Use that million instead toward pitching.

Signing Simmons is going to prohibit us from signing pitchers.

We have "several candidates" to play SS.

Everyone thinks Lewis is a major league ready SS.

I had no idea!

[ashbury]

12 hours ago, USAFChief said:

I've seen some posts in my day, but that. Was. AWEsome.

Nah. Nope. No way. .. 

[Russ]

Enough of Simmons. Iglesis can't be any worse and cheaper

[joefish]

I would bring him back. I'd declare offensive indifference, sign him for his glove, and HOPE that has a stronger season with his bat. 

He should be a great mentor for whoever is going to fill his shoes.

[Minny505]

I'd prefer a trade or Story, but if a stopgap FA is the route taken by the FO, Simmons is far and away the best FA SS in that pile. 

Plus, he's better than any in-house options.

[Minny505]

33 minutes ago, Russ said:

Enough of Simmons. Iglesis can't be any worse and cheaper

Iglesias was actually worse with the bat and the glove in 2021. 

[sampleSizeOfOne]

14 hours ago, USAFChief said:

I've seen some posts in my day, but that. Was. AWEsome.

Remind me... when was your day?

But yeah! An impressive 50 ways to leave your lover kinda post. (not that anyone counts in base 11 these days, nor was the rhyming there) Perhaps a game thread intro in the works?

I myself wouldn't sign Simmons for $5m because i don't run a major league baseball team, And if i did, i'd probably get in trouble due to the lockout.

 

All that said, i don't think i'd mind if the Twins did once the new CBA is reached. While not chump change, $5m is a more trade-able amount should replacement(s) grow into the role, and hopefully his career demonstrates its conservation of kinetic energy.. And reading the posts of flustered TD posters would merely be a silver lining.

[AceWrigley]

57 minutes ago, Minny505 said:

Iglesias was actually worse with the bat and the glove in 2021. 

Not so fast. Iglesias had an OPS+ of 90 in 2021. Simmons had a historically terrible OPS+ of 57.

FanGraphs has Iglesias at 1.0 WAR for the year, Simmons at -0.5.

Neither one is Trea Turner, 6.9 WAR.

[Minny505]

8 minutes ago, AceWrigley said:

Not so fast. Iglesias had an OPS+ of 90 in 2021. Simmons had a historically terrible OPS+ of 57.

FanGraphs has Iglesias at 1.0 WAR for the year, Simmons at -0.5.

Neither one is Trea Turner, 6.9 WAR.

I stand corrected. I just assumed as Iglesias was panned by national sports talkers, like Eno Sarris, Ben Lindburgh, and others, far more than Simmons was. 

I still prefer Simmons due to the defense, but the gap is admittedly smaller than I initially perceived.

(Thank you for pointing this out. I love being wrong. It means I learn something.)

[Kipp35]

2 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I think the problem was two-fold:

1. This front office, for good or bad, are loathe to hand out $100m+ contracts to free agents unless the stars align in a way they find perfect, or at least very favorable to them.

2. While sorting out the Buxton extension - which in fairness, was quite complicated - they were caught with their pants down as the rest of baseball suddenly kicked into overdrive on a level I've never seen in an offseason before. That doesn't make their failure to sign a player okay and they absolutely should have read the tea leaves more accurately but I think that's part of the reason they clamored to pick up the scraps of Bundy just moments before the lockout went into place. They expected the market to fall to them after the lockout and instead the market packed its bags and left for Dallas before the lockout even happened.

I fully agree with the first part and I am frustrated at who they have been willing to give substantial contracts to.

As for the second point, although I can see that, it really doesn't excuse them. Their job as the front office of an MLB team is to know what is happening and potential to happen. The sudden shift didn't seem to stop a lot of other teams, and only fosters more what they have always done... wait. They like to wait to see who else runs out of money and go after the scrap players that are left and try to get discount prices on them. They had blinders on working on a player that we had team control and was not going anywhere, right now. With that continued mindset, we will never compete in the offseason.

[Brock Beauchamp]

3 minutes ago, Kipp35 said:

As for the second point, although I can see that, it really doesn't excuse them. Their job as the front office of an MLB team is to know what is happening and potential to happen. The sudden shift didn't seem to stop a lot of other teams, and only fosters more what they have always done... wait.

Agreed 100%. I'm not excusing them of anything, just outlining a possible reason why this happened the way it did.

[dex8425]

My answer comes down to whether the Twins actually intend to compete in 2022. If they don't sign or trade for at least three starters better than Bundy, then I wouldn't bother signing Simmons. Just let Gordon play there. Or Palacios. Don't really care, since we won't be winning games anyway. 

If the Twins signed Rodon, and traded for, say Manea, then sure, I'd bring back Simmons for 5m since the Twins are not going to overpay for Story. 

I think he's a good bounceback candidate, and he still gives you great defense at short. He never had elite speed or range. His great defense is predicated on that arm, and instincts, which don't go away. He's not nearly as bad with the stick as he was in 2021. 

[Doctor Gast]

When selecting any player we need to be realistic and objective, not subjectively bias.

[darwin22]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   I'll repeat that...........NO!!!!

[Russ]

Interesting to see Martin and Lewis as shortstop options.  If this were the mid 40's to mid 50's having Martin and Lewis as your shortstop would be considered a joke.  Hopefully our version can be good and preferrably very soon

[Wax Kepler]

If you want to help Royce Lewis become a SS, than definitely sign Simmons, one of the greatest defensive SSs in the history of baseball.

If you want solid defense to help out the young pitchers' ERA and you aren't going to land Story, sign him.

If you think Polanco's success at the plate somehow depends on him not playing SS (despite his 2019 stats), as most commenters are convinced, sign Simmons.

 

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, Kipp35 said:

I fully agree with the first part and I am frustrated at who they have been willing to give substantial contracts to.

As for the second point, although I can see that, it really doesn't excuse them. Their job as the front office of an MLB team is to know what is happening and potential to happen. The sudden shift didn't seem to stop a lot of other teams, and only fosters more what they have always done... wait. They like to wait to see who else runs out of money and go after the scrap players that are left and try to get discount prices on them. They had blinders on working on a player that we had team control and was not going anywhere, right now. With that continued mindset, we will never compete in the offseason.

 

Honestly, I think the issue is they are over deliberate. They are too cautious and scared to make a bad decision. They have so many checks and balances and red tape to cut through so they can internally justify their actions, that they'll never be able to react fast enough to get in on these guys early.

But that shouldn't be the case, we went through a couple of decades where the Twins were only trying new things after all 29 other clubs had tested them out first. The new front office was supposed to be trail blazers they were supposed to be decisive and they were supposed to anticipate and be out in front of new trends.

That's why them sitting on their hands and acting shocked that the market was so hot and heavy is so disappointing. They were supposed to see it coming. They were supposed to be the causation, not the reaction. And there is no argument to be made that doing nothing until the scrap heap free agents acquiesce to their demands is any kind of forward thinking prerogative, as there were affordable players who could have helped this club who already signed deals.

 

[Fatbat]

Simmons is worth zero $$$. Sign an extra pitcher for the $5M. Play anyone at ss and lose nothing. 

[Kipp35]

18 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

 

Honestly, I think the issue is they are over deliberate. They are too cautious and scared to make a bad decision. They have so many checks and balances and red tape to cut through so they can internally justify their actions, that they'll never be able to react fast enough to get in on these guys early.

But that shouldn't be the case, we went through a couple of decades where the Twins were only trying new things after all 29 other clubs had tested them out first. The new front office was supposed to be trail blazers they were supposed to be decisive and they were supposed to anticipate and be out in front of new trends.

That's why them sitting on their hands and acting shocked that the market was so hot and heavy is so disappointing. They were supposed to see it coming. They were supposed to be the causation, not the reaction. And there is no argument to be made that doing nothing until the scrap heap free agents acquiesce to their demands is any kind of forward thinking prerogative, as there were affordable players who could have helped this club who already signed deals.

 

100%, I agree. You are saying what I wanted to, but I don't write as well as you. I feel the priorities could have been managed better. I say again, if they felt the Buxton deal was something that needed to get done, fine; I don't agree but that is beside the point. He was here, and not going anywhere, we had time. We needed to be moving on the guys that were not here, and we wanted to bring in...

[Dman]

19 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

 

Honestly, I think the issue is they are over deliberate. They are too cautious and scared to make a bad decision. They have so many checks and balances and red tape to cut through so they can internally justify their actions, that they'll never be able to react fast enough to get in on these guys early.

But that shouldn't be the case, we went through a couple of decades where the Twins were only trying new things after all 29 other clubs had tested them out first. The new front office was supposed to be trail blazers they were supposed to be decisive and they were supposed to anticipate and be out in front of new trends.

That's why them sitting on their hands and acting shocked that the market was so hot and heavy is so disappointing. They were supposed to see it coming. They were supposed to be the causation, not the reaction. And there is no argument to be made that doing nothing until the scrap heap free agents acquiesce to their demands is any kind of forward thinking prerogative, as there were affordable players who could have helped this club who already signed deals.

 

I agree with most of this.  They have an MO now that they are not going to be in on the big fish and they are going to wait the market out for bargains.  The one thing I do want to add to this though is they aren't acting any different than any of the other teams that receive revenue sharing money. What bottom ten team in revenue has gone out and signed any of the big names?  I can't think of any.  I think they are operating or trying to operate like a Tampa or Oakland to get where they want to go.  Those teams try to make something out of nothing as well.  So Honestly I am not too surprised that this is the way FA went for the Twins.  I think this is more operating by design than being surprised by the early run on top players.

[KirbyDome89]

On 12/9/2021 at 6:14 AM, wsnydes said:

Note that I said IF that is the plan.  I'm not crazy about the consideration either, but there are worse things that could happen.

Yep, that's why I said I agreed with the logic, but doubt the outcome. 

[bdodge22]

We suffered through Simmons all last year, and frankly I don't want to have to do it again. I understand that his defensive metrics were still good but I watched most games last year and I just didn't see what I expected to see. Maybe he was so good defensively that nothing looked difficult? I don't know. I think he hurt the team more than helped it. If we have to go with a stop gap, I'd bring in Iglesias or Goodrum. But I think the FO might go youth movement, for lack of better options. This may have been their plan anyway. Give Lewis his shot to earn the job now. I'd be much more excited to watch the team with the upside of Lewis, Palacios, or Martin at short

[RpR]

On 12/9/2021 at 8:37 AM, sabeck said:

Never.  Don't bring back Simmons for $1 million.  Go find some better pitching.  As others have noted, we have several candidates to play shortstop.  Frankly, Polanco was an all-star shortstop. But the wizards believed he needed to be moved to second.  It cost him half a season last year getting used to playing a new position.  Then he got hot.  If Lewis is who everyone thinks, he should be able to play short and Gordon as a utility guy can supplement.  I repeat, Go Find Better Pitching. 

I amamazed at all the wishful thinking here, especially after AAA boys last summer with one exception were from poor to awful.

Sano would be better at short stop than Polanco.