REPORT: Twins Lose JT Chargois On Waivers

[jorgenswest]

I can’t imagine how any minor league reliever would be perceived by a front office as too valuable to trade. Most major league relievers are former starters. Did any of them ever make anyone’s top 100 prospect list? The Twins front office’s decision to draft college relievers was foolish and a failure. Those pitchers never had significant value to other teams.

[TheLeviathan]

 

They went from being too valuable to trade, to not worth a roster spot, in under 24 months. There's a lesson in there somewhere. Tyler Jay is next -- I hope he gets his cup of coffee some day, at least.

Jake Reed might be the other last one of the bunch. He's been in Rochester two years now and the Twins ought to give him a chance and see what he can do. Who knows.

 

Right - Reed, Burdi, Jay, Chargois might never be a factor for this team after looking like near locks just months ago.  

 

And that's why I'd be quite happy to sign Lynn or Cobb rather than thinking Gonsalves and Romero are our keys to success.

[Guest]

That's unfortunate, we don't have anything to show from all those hard throwing relievers we used to love.

Yeah, the “draft college relievers” strategy has not worked well. Starting with Carlos Gutierrez, it’s a long list of no MLB success.

[Guest]

Concur, concur, concur.

I take the player with proven big league experience almost every time, and I don’t care what some spread sheet says about “decline phase,” “over 30,” or much else.

Depending on minor leaguers is folly.

It’s worked pretty well for the Astros, Yankees and Cleveland. The Twins’ problem is that they tried to rely on a pool that nobody else cared about, college relievers, while thinking they could convert them to starters without knowing a proven path to do so.

[Oxtung]

I think what we're really seeing here is a difference between the Ryan regime and the Falvine. At the end Ryan's FO believed in premium velocity as a means to strikeouts and effective pitching. Given the quote by the new FO about Odorizzi not having premium velocity but still being a valuable pitcher combined with the DFA'ing of all the hard throwing relievers.... It seems to me clear that Falvine has different thoughts on what makes a good pitcher. I'm not at all convinced Ryan would be making these same decisions. I'm also not at all convinced these are the right decisions. We'll see I guess but I think a couple of these guys have some very good years left in them.

[Vanimal46]

This is a little disappointing since many of the hard throwing RP'ers that we were hopeful of really turning the bullpen around in the next year or two are out of the organization.

 

There seems to be a preference for durability also.

I'd think any baseball team values durability over all else. Chargois could be the next Mariano Rivera... It will be a moot point if he spends more time in the training room than the actual field.

[Vanimal46]

It’s worked pretty well for the Astros, Yankees and Cleveland. The Twins’ problem is that they tried to rely on a pool that nobody else cared about, college relievers, while thinking they could convert them to starters without knowing a proven path to do so.

Yep. So far only Duffey had a couple months of success as a starter in 2015. The rest are now org filler for the AA or AAA team.

[d-mac]

Yep. So far only Duffey had a couple months of success as a starter in 2015. The rest are now org filler for the AA or AAA team.

Or org filler for somebody else.

 

I've been saying this was a stupid strategy circa 2014. Sometimes, I hate being right.

[David HK]

Boy, I hope he slips through, and can overcome his injury issues.

 

On the other hand, if it means getting Lance Lynn, yes, please.

[jimbo92107]

Is it typical across MLB for something like 90 percent of a farm system's flame throwers to consistently injure and re-injure their elbows? 

[USAFChief]

It’s worked pretty well for the Astros, Yankees and Cleveland. The Twins’ problem is that they tried to rely on a pool that nobody else cared about, college relievers, while thinking they could convert them to starters without knowing a proven path to do so.

Depending on minor leaguers doesn’t ever work, for anyone. Don’t make plans that include them. Don’t worry about “blocking” them. Don’t fail to add proven talent in hopes that “by mid-season, so-and-so will be ready.”

 

Fill your team with proven talent. When/if a minor leaguer forces his way onto your team, then you’ve got a great problem to deal with.

 

When you fail to fill your bullpen because all that A ball talent is “going to need room” you are very likely to still have that room much longer than you anticipated.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

And that's why I'd be quite happy to sign Lynn or Cobb rather than thinking Gonsalves and Romero are our keys to success.

The Twins can do both. If they sign either Lynn or Cobb and he has a decent season, you essentially swap out that contract for Santana's and rotate in a younger guy in 2019, freeing up more money to spend elsewhere.

 

Given how neither Gonsalves nor Romero are ready to pitch in Minnesota today, the timelines don't really interfere with one another.

[Riverbrian]

 

It’s worked pretty well for the Astros, Yankees and Cleveland. The Twins’ problem is that they tried to rely on a pool that nobody else cared about, college relievers, while thinking they could convert them to starters without knowing a proven path to do so.

 

I think what Chief was saying... Well.. Ok what I'm saying. 

 

If you find yourself thinking... We don't need Darvish because Enlow will be here in 3 years. I'd rather you wait for the actual hatching and go ahead and sign Darvish. 

 

If it is January and you find yourself thinking... We don't need Lance Lynn... Gonsalves can get the job done even though Gonsalves has never ever gotten the job done before. I'd say that was unnecessarily risky. 

 

 

 

I think Chief understands the importance of building your organization with development. Well... OK... I think I do anyway. 

[TheLeviathan]

The Twins can do both. If they sign either Lynn or Cobb and he has a decent season, you essentially swap out that contract for Santana's and rotate in a younger guy in 2019, freeing up more money to spend elsewhere.

 

Given how neither Gonsalves nor Romero are ready to pitch in Minnesota today, the timelines don't really interfere with one another.

I agree, signing another arm doesnt stand in their way. It stands in the way of the potential dregs we could throw out there.

[bcs4]

I can't see why they would do this unless they actually want to keep him or they actually think he'll never recover. It's the perfect time to remove someone from the 40 considering none of the other teams have had much of a chance to see him. At least that's what I'm going to keep telling myself because he's become one of my favorite pitchers for some strange reason.

[Elliot]

Most effective major league relievers are failed starters. High end pitchers are generally starters in college and the minors.  The previous FO became infatuated with mph rather than effective pitchers. The Twins bullpen future probably lies with May, Romero, and others from the pool of potential starters who don't crack the rotation.  The college relievers were flawed pitchers that the Twins took a flier on.  Probably not a terrible plan, but better when used later in the draft.  High velocity throwers are not that hard to come by as evidenced by the Twins recent pickups via Rule 5 and minor league trades.  Hard throwers that can stay healthy and show command are the difficult part.  My guess is that JT is done, regardless of what team he ends up with.  He may recover enough to make a roster but arm troubles every year dating back to college is not a good sign.

[beckmt]

He is one of mine too.  Hope he does not get claimed.

[Seth Stohs]

 

Because he was added to the 40-man between August 15th and the Rule 5 draft, with less than 3 years service time, Slegers can't be outrighted until 20 days before spring training, even if he clears waivers.

https://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3520

Not that I think the Twins would do it, even if he didn't have this restriction.

 

Slegers isn't going anywhere. The Twins really like him as a depth guy, and there are likely others they would still DFA first. It's clear, based on their 40-man roster adds (or non-adds) and this move that the front office clearly values starting pitching over relief pitching for guys that haven't done it. 

 

Something must be coming. But I can understand it. It's clear Chargois isn't right. And, frankly, might be a change-of-scenery guy for both sides just due to frustrations.

[bcs4]

 

Slegers isn't going anywhere. The Twins really like him as a depth guy, and there are likely others they would still DFA first. It's clear, based on their 40-man roster adds (or non-adds) and this move that the front office clearly values starting pitching over relief pitching for guys that haven't done it. 

 

Something must be coming. But I can understand it. It's clear Chargois isn't right. And, frankly, might be a change-of-scenery guy for both sides just due to frustrations.

But why would they need a spot now?

[tvagle]

Just thinking on this fine Friday morning...Is JT a better trade candidate, does he have more value if he's not a 40-man guy?

 

Saves the acquiring team from having to run the risk he gets nabbed when they DFA him??

 

I didn't say it was good thinking...just thinking

[Guest]

Slegers isn't going anywhere. The Twins really like him as a depth guy, and there are likely others they would still DFA first. It's clear, based on their 40-man roster adds (or non-adds) and this move that the front office clearly values starting pitching over relief pitching for guys that haven't done it. 

 

Something must be coming. But I can understand it. It's clear Chargois isn't right. And, frankly, might be a change-of-scenery guy for both sides just due to frustrations.

Agreed. Right now, Slegers could be #5 or 6 in the pecking order of available starters (Berrios, Gibson, Odorizzi, Mejia. . . Hughes?, Sanchez?). Depending on the who-knows factor in Hughes and Sanchez, Slegers could be batting Duffey to start the year in the rotation.

 

Chargois could be much lower as a reliever, no higher than 11th, without counting perhaps a half dozen or more starters that could be used as relievers. And if he’s not physically well, it’s all moot.

 

It wouldn’t make sense to jettison someone who is potentially in line to make the team in order to keep someone who isn’t, especially if you value starters over relievers and have a lot more relievers.

 

Also, Slegers could have been coached wrong for several years, so there may be untapped potential there.

 

Best of luck to Chargois. I hope he gets healthy and can pitch for the Twins.

[Rosterman]

Agreed. Right now, Slegers could be #5 or 6 in the pecking order of available starters (Berrios, Gibson, Odorizzi, Mejia. . . Hughes?, Sanchez?). Depending on the who-knows factor in Hughes and Sanchez, Slegers could be batting Duffey to start the year in the rotation.

 

Chargois could be much lower as a reliever, no higher than 11th, without counting perhaps a half dozen or more starters that could be used as relievers. And if he’s not physically well, it’s all moot.

 

It wouldn’t make sense to jettison someone who is potentially in line to make the team in order to keep someone who isn’t, especially if you value starters over relievers and have a lot more relievers.

 

Also, Slegers could have been coached wrong for several years, so there may be untapped potential there.

 

Best of luck to Chargois. I hope he gets healthy and can pitch for the Twins.

There's actually a nice piece in the latest Baseball America about Slegers in the Twins report section. So he is still considered a viable prospect for this season, before he is passed by others. He may/may not be a career minor league guy, but pretty sure some otehr team would grab him for the moment and 40-man him if the Twins put him on waivers now. You just need to ask at what point IS he passed by Gonsalves or Romero or even Jorge as the next in-line fer sure. Then you part ways. Or even Thorpe and Littell. The Twins have potential in the wings, not just someone ready to come up and pitch come May 1.

[Taildragger8791]

 

Slegers isn't going anywhere. The Twins really like him as a depth guy, and there are likely others they would still DFA first. It's clear, based on their 40-man roster adds (or non-adds) and this move that the front office clearly values starting pitching over relief pitching for guys that haven't done it. 

 

Something must be coming. But I can understand it. It's clear Chargois isn't right. And, frankly, might be a change-of-scenery guy for both sides just due to frustrations.

 

Is it possible this was done to preserve his final option year? If he isn't healthy and the timing is prime to sneak someone though, that seems like a viable strategy and worthwhile risk.

[Doomtints]

I'm surprised anyone is too worried about this. It sucks for him that he got injured during what should have been his prime year, but the reality is he won't be back in form until his window has closed. Yes this is on the Twins, you can't hit the snooze button on older college grads too long. He was performing and he should have been up sooner. But it is what it is at this point. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Is it possible this was done to preserve his final option year? If he isn't healthy and the timing is prime to sneak someone though, that seems like a viable strategy and worthwhile risk.

If anything, the fact that he has an option left would make him more likely to be claimed, right? I think it could just be a good time to sneak someone through, regardless of options -- I would suspect most teams have reasonably full rosters entering spring training, and perhaps eyes on one of the remaining free agents. They may be less inclined to pick up a question mark like Chargois at the moment. We may not even have a plan for the roster spot at this point, but trying to clear it has value -- especially when we've already taken advantage of the 60-day DL.

[nicksaviking]

I'd like to see Slegers get an extended look in the pen. Towering righthander without much velocity but with control that's unique for large men? Seems like Jon Rauch is a pretty close comp. 

[puckstopper1]

Looks like the Twins PA department will have to cancel plans for their "Scooby-doo and Shaggy" night at Target Field...

 

"Wrorry Wraggy...."

 

Seriously, I hope he can get healthy first and foremost.  Then if he does slip through waivers and and can turn things around that would be a bonus.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Just thinking on this fine Friday morning...Is JT a better trade candidate, does he have more value if he's not a 40-man guy?

 

Saves the acquiring team from having to run the risk he gets nabbed when they DFA him??

 

I didn't say it was good thinking...just thinking

He definitely has more value off the 40-man but with his injury situation, his value is so low in the first place that I doubt it matters.

[PseudoSABR]

[Mike Sixel]

It was a bad draft strategy at the time. It looks even worse in retrospect. Let's hope he gets healthy and pitches a few years in the majors here or elsewhere.