Article: Twins Sign RHP Anibal Sanchez... No, Really

[KirbyDome89]

 

Players have misread the market and signed for less than the QO that they turned down. This isn't a rare circumstance.

 

There are other mediocre players on the 40 man that can be cut if necessary. The amount of teeth knashing over Rule V, 40 man spots, #5 starter competition, etc... is baffling.

 

My concern right now is only about the bigger signing/trade for the rotation. If there isn't one then that is when my pitchfork comes out. Not having a 40 man roster spot is not a reason that prevents them from making another move.

Roster spots are valuable, hence the knashing of teeth when a guy like Kinley clogs up the 25 man or Anibal Sanchez inexplicably is given a 40 man spot. It isn't hard to argue that the arm(s) they expose in the event of another signing(s) are more likely to help than Sanchez.  

 

The Twins are a team that operates on the fringes. They've made that abundantly clear this offseason. It follows then that fringe moves carry greater importance. 

Edited February 17, 2018 by KirbyDome89

[Penthang]

This move is just flat out depressing at this point.The difference between Darvish and Sanchez is huge. At this point I just don’t see how Sanchez can be a good pitcher. Someone like Tillman at least has the lure of a potential bounce back that I just don’t see from Sanchez. I hope that they are seeing something I don’t.

[howieramone2]

 

In a word, depressing. These are the kinds of moves we made back in the '90s, when we were just looking for bodies and arms because the game requires nine men on the field. I'm handicapping this year's squad at about 69-93.

I'll take 90-72.

[ashbury]

I'll take 90-72.

While many scoff at the usefulness of W-L for individual pitchers, it is nevertheless true that by MLB rules each win and loss will be assigned to someone. Care to take a crack at allocating those decisions to the pitchers currently on the 40-man roster, in a way that plausibly adds up to 90-72?

[howieramone2]

 

This is our BIG HINT: The Twins are going to use 2018 as a season-long tryout for every plausible pitching prospect in AAA and AA. 

 

If you thought 2017 was musical chairs in the starting rotation, you ain't seen nothing yet. Expect to see half again more candidates try their hand at pitching in the majors. Wouldn't surprise me to see 25 different starters this season. 

Expect to see the opposite. We are actually stronger 6-10. Eliminating the Chinese fire drill may be a small consolation at this time, but it's a place to start. 

[Danchat]

 

 

 

Derek Wetmore‏
@DerekWetmore


Paul Molitor said the Twins have identified some things with the analytics that suggest Anibal Sanchez is better than his numbers indicate. We'll see.

 

Well, they're definitely committed to analytics...

Edited February 17, 2018 by Danchat

[howieramone2]

 

Why not just give him an invite to camp then?  

 

Everything about this smells like they plan to actually have him in the rotation.  There is nothing about that anyone should be happy about.

It smells to me as if he'll be in ST, nothing else.

[howieramone2]

 

Zero WAR is still better than -2 WAR.

I'm just baffled how this conversation even started. Was the front office really brainstorming and thought, how about Anibal Sanchez? Let's give him a call!

I'm guessing it was that advanced metrics non-sense the guys on the board are always talking about.

[tvagle]

 

Who were the other ones?

Going back to 2000 here are just a few of the fellas that have started a game for the Twins

 

 

(Not all, but a large majority were FA acquisitions)

How many can you name?

[USAFChief]

 

 

 

Well, they're definitely committed to analytics...

They are particularly intrigued by the monetary analytic, is my guess.

[USAFChief]

It smells to me as if he'll be in ST, nothing else.

I'm guessing it was that advanced metrics non-sense the guys on the board are always talking about.

Which one are you going with?

[bird]

 

Wasn't there a theory the Twins passed on Darvish because they could get both Lynn and Cobb for the same money?

If nothing else, the Sanchez signing and putting him on the 40-man roster would seem to put that long-shot theory to rest.

 

 

Yes, that theory was posited by commenters, but not by the FO. I can't recall anything that gives us a hint about what their real assessment is on either of these guys. All we can point to are some rumors and speculation that they had conversations with their agents, and one would expect that to have happened.

 

My own theory is that they got beat out on their bid for Darvish, their obvious first choice (you'd prefer to say they "passed" on him). Simultaneously, they poked around the trade market, with their first choice perhaps being Archer. "Right" or "wrong", they didn't like the prospect prices being demanded. And all along, they monitored the asking prices of Lynn, Cobb, and perhaps others, and haven't felt their demands fit with their own risk/reward calculations. So, at least for now, they're "passing" on those two. We don't know why, we just have theories. Pretty much our own theories.

 

Edited February 17, 2018 by birdwatcher

[scottz]

DID

 

DID WE

 

DID WE WIN

 

DID WE WIN YET?!??

[jkcarew]

 

and then the casual fan who takes her family to that second Twins game in summer 2018 is seeing not an 89-73 team, but a 78-84 team, and with the excitement gone in 2019, this casual fan decides to do something else besides go to the Twins game.

Honestly, even before the disappointing (so far) off-season, I was more excited about 2019 than 2018...and more excited about 2020 than 2019.  And the FO is acting as if they felt the same.  I'm not saying that I'd be willing to defend what has transpired so far.  This certainly has rattled the faith that the FO would take advantage of any future "whatever it takes" moments.  Still, I like the core, the on-the-verge prospects, and I'm thinking this window is not going to slam shut on us.

[gil4]

 

They turned down 17.4 QO. I realize that is only a one year QO but I'm guessing they will want the AAV to be above that or else they got bad advice from the agent. 

If they get 4/60 that would probably be better the 17 now and betting on 3/43 or more at age 32. I'm not sure where you would draw the line. Would 4/50 be better? 3/42? A pitching arm is a fragile commodity and I'm sure there is a desire to lock in as much total compensation as possible, and players will likely accept a lower AAV if they can lock in enough years.

[bird]

 

I don't agree with the they don't "owe" us an explanation as to what they see or are doing. Why not? That kind of attitude by the FO in regards to the fans that make it all work, is disgusting.

 

Yeah, it's a good thing that we don't see anything that resembles that kind of attitude.

 

If they feel a need to hold their cards close to their vest, it is not out of disdain for you.

Edited February 17, 2018 by birdwatcher

[bird]

 

Didn't waste any time selling us on the ol' veteran leadership either huh?

 

 

Who sold you on that?

[RaoulDuke]

 

Twins needed a #1 starter and got a #11. Is that twice as good? 

 

I can only quote what Harry Doyle would have said. "Well, they sign Sanchez to release someone off the 40-man. Falvine must have been thinking . . . I don't know WHAT the hell they're thinking!"

 

Terry Doyle is the one that would be an upgrade.

[ChrisKnutson]

If the Twins are looking towards reclamation projects rather than Cobb or Lynn, then why not look at players that actually just had a rough/injured season and not a waste of a roster spot (no offense to Anibal, but cmon).

 

Why not sign Jeff Locke or Matt Garza to minor league contracts? Or maybe bring back a healthy Ricky Nolasco, R.A Dickey, or even Scott Feldman.

 

We should've signed Cashner, Chatwood, Chancin when we had the chance.

[Oxtung]

 

If there is $2.5 million to throw away on Sanchez then why not use that EXTRA money that can be thrown away and add it to an offer for a good pitcher? These guys think quantity is better than quality. What a joke!

 

Do you really think that this $2.5 million (which isn't even guaranteed) is going to stop the Twins from signing a $60 million contract?

[Mike Sixel]

Honestly, even before the disappointing (so far) off-season, I was more excited about 2019 than 2018...and more excited about 2020 than 2019. And the FO is acting as if they felt the same. I'm not saying that I'd be willing to defend what has transpired so far. This certainly has rattled the faith that the FO would take advantage of any future "whatever it takes" moments. Still, I like the core, the on-the-verge prospects, and I'm thinking this window is not going to slam shut on us.

I'm guessing the white Sox are planning on 2020 also.... And the tigers can't be as bad as they will be this year, I'd guess.

[Oxtung]

 

Roster spots are valuable, hence the knashing of teeth when a guy like Kinley clogs up the 25 man or Anibal Sanchez inexplicably is given a 40 man spot. It isn't hard to argue that the arm(s) they expose in the event of another signing(s) are more likely to help than Sanchez.  

 

The Twins are a team that operates on the fringes. They've made that abundantly clear this offseason. It follows then that fringe moves carry greater importance. 

 

Thing is, Sanchez has the most upside of all our current options. Sure, he might not be likely to reach it but he has been a very good pitcher in the past.

 

Of the Kinley, Slegers, Jorge, Enns, Dietrich what exactly do you think their upside is? They all look like they top out at back of the rotation starters at best. Losing one of those makes no difference in the grand scheme of things. Even Terry Ryan had no problems finding those and getting them to come to Minnesota.

[Mike Sixel]

Francisco Liriano has been good more recently....

[yarnivek1972]

Read the comments. And, he's been one of the worst pitchers in baseball for three years. This isn't a fluke.

Some on this board still believe Kyle Gibson isn’t a 5 ERA pitcher, despite the results the last 2 1/2 seasons.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Thing is, Sanchez has the most upside of all our current options. Sure, he might not be likely to reach it but he has been a very good pitcher in the past.

 

Of the Kinley, Slegers, Jorge, Enns, Dietrich what exactly do you think their upside is? They all look like they top out at back of the rotation starters at best. Losing one of those makes no difference in the grand scheme of things. Even Terry Ryan had no problems finding those and getting them to come to Minnesota.

He hasn't been good for years so unless the Twins have discovered a time machine, I'm not sure I see what upside Sanchez has. 

 

It isn't that I'm high on anybody you mentioned, it's that I'm down on Sanchez. He has proven for 2 years now that he isn't a major league pitcher. You're not wrong that that anybody you listed is a backend guy at best, but I think Jorge, Enns, and Slegers can at least give you what Sanchez has the past few years and if nothing else they haven't demonstrated that their arrow is clearly pointing down. 

 

If you want to argue that Kinley will be the odd man out I'm fine with that. I don't think either one of them should be on the roster but I think Sanchez has the better chance of being cut loose soonest.  

[Lee-The-Twins-Fan]

Rhett Bollinger obviously puts a positive spin on this move. If he's correct, and the Twins can correct some of his pitch-selection problems, then they may have grabbed a pitcher of worth. If, If, If. No guarantees here. We're still looking for a much better pitcher via trade or FA. I suspect it will be Odorizzi, but that could be late in spring training.

[laloesch]

I'm absolutely speechless with this move.  I mean there HAS TO BE better options that Falvey and Levine can fall back on.  Do Cobb, Lynn, Tillman, Garcia ALL not want to pitch in Minnesota?  This is depressing beyond belief.    I just read too that the Twins are stretching Duffey back out to compete for a starting rotation spot.  In my opinion if these are the moves they are now settling on they are pretty much done for this offseason.  I'll give them credit on the bullpen acquisitions but the starting pitching hunt has been a total let down and utter disaster.

[laloesch]

 

He hasn't been good for years so unless the Twins have discovered a time machine, I'm not sure I see what upside Sanchez has. 

 

It isn't that I'm high on anybody you mentioned, it's that I'm down on Sanchez. He has proven for 2 years now that he isn't a major league pitcher. You're not wrong that that anybody you listed is a backend guy at best, but I think Jorge, Enns, and Slegers can at least give you what Sanchez has the past few years and if nothing else they haven't demonstrated that their arrow is clearly pointing down. 

 

If you want to argue that Kinley will be the odd man out I'm fine with that. I don't think either one of them should be on the roster but I think Sanchez has the better chance of being cut loose soonest.  

 

I agree Enns and Slegers should get innings.  I also read the Twins plan on stretching Duffey out.  So how does the rotation fill out to start the year?

 

Berrios

Gibson

Meija

Sanchez 

Hughes / Slegers / Enns / Duffey

 

Yuck!

[adorduan]

Another post referenced a response made by Molitor that apparently the Twins see something in the analytics that suggest Sanchez is better than is numbers indicate.  So apparently our analytics dept has gone from basically the bottom of the heap to being able to see things that even all the other teams that have very good/great analytics departments can't/don't see.  Count me as skeptical.

[jimbo92107]

 

Expect to see the opposite. We are actually stronger 6-10. Eliminating the Chinese fire drill may be a small consolation at this time, but it's a place to start. 

The staff strength in the pen is part of the hint. If your bullpen is strong, you can afford to experiment with the starting rotation. That is exactly what I expect this season from the Twins FO. I think they stayed away from high-priced deals so they can try out guys like Gonsalves, Romero, Jorge, Jay, and Stewart, along with several other non-prospects, some of whom are now on the Spring Training roster. This is the year we find out if any of the guys in AAA and AA have something special to offer the big league club, and which ones need to go back down and work on something. 

 

I predict an interesting season, but not a playoff season. Lots of up's and down's.