White Sox 8, Twins 0: Bradley Gets Rocked, Offense Remains Negligible

[Vanimal46]

Abel and Bradley’s performances weren’t inspiring, obviously. But at this point I just don’t care. These opportunities aren’t being wasted by 30 something year olds with zero future anymore. 

[jorgenswest]

3 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

All season long our issue has been offense.  I was 100% for blowing up this team at the deadline, but one thing I do scratch my head at is the lack of talent acquisition that centered on position players.

I really hope this team uses the offseason to bolster the everyday players around Keaschall, Buxton, and whomever else is still around in the years ahead.  The lineup just has way too many gaping holes in it.

Teams have been holding on to their prospects. It is really hard to get a prospect with an FV over 50 and if you do they come with the risk of being a few years away. According to ESPN one prospect with an FV of 50 moved this year in DeVries. The Twins got two of the four 50s that moved in Tait and Abel. I wonder if the blow up path is available anymore if the top 20 or so of the top 100 are untouchable. 

It would have been great to find a Stowers but a year ago at this time he looked like the guys the Twins acquired this year. He had been up and down for three years with the Orioles with an OPS+ of 83 and a minus glove on the corner. He was awful for Miami in 172 PAs after the trade with an wRC+ of 56. That is Roden’s wRC+ as a Twin. Outman as a Twin is 75. Somehow he turned it around.

I wouldn’t have traded Duran or Varland or Jax without getting back that elite prospect. As many told me I was asking too much and that wasn’t going to happen. It didn’t. I would have kept them and moved them next deadline if they were out of it. I think the return would have been close to the same.

[Dave Overlund]

You can’t keep Kriskie on the bench all weekend and expect to win. 

[Hashim]

Abel & Bradley 💩💩💩. Twins are great at giving talents away. 

[Old Twins Cap]

3 hours ago, Glorybound said:

  Nothing points to success like going 1-5 against the Athletics and White Sox. Everyone was clamoring to so Abel and Bradley. Well now you have seen them in Twin’s uniform.

Joe Pohlad's "let them eat cake" quote is looking worse by the series.  Why is it that no one else can see how "optimal" this whole process has worked out?

[Hashim]

55 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

Teams have been holding on to their prospects. It is really hard to get a prospect with an FV over 50 and if you do they come with the risk of being a few years away. According to ESPN one prospect with an FV of 50 moved this year in DeVries. The Twins got two of the four 50s that moved in Tait and Abel. I wonder if the blow up path is available anymore if the top 20 or so of the top 100 are untouchable. 

It would have been great to find a Stowers but a year ago at this time he looked like the guys they acquired this year. He had been up and down for three years with the Orioles with an OPS+ of 83 and a minus glove on the corner. He was awful for Miami in 172 PAs after the trade with an OPS+ of 56. That is Roden’s OPS+ as a Twin. Outman as a Twin is 75. Somehow he turned it around.

I wouldn’t have traded Duran or Varland or Jax without getting back that elite prospect. As many told me I was asking too much and that wasn’t going to happen. It didn’t. I would have kept them and moved them next deadline if they were out of it. I think the return would have been close to the same.

True 💯. Twins are great at giving talents away. Selling teams have the leverage. You get the best deals or no deal. Twins had all those players under team control for multiple years. Cheap owners probably didn’t want to pay new arbitration salaries in the millions. 

[Hashim]

4 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

My takeaway from this weekend is to be weary when a team is willing to trade away a (once) starting pitching prospect.

Yeah true. Phillies refused to cough up Andrew Painter. I don’t care if he had TJ surgery. That should have been the ultimate red flag. 

[David HK]

Popped into the game in the middle of my night, and made a comment about the Bears being up by an early touchdown.  

I forgot these are the Les Steckel days.... 😞

[Hashim]

1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said:

Abel and Bradley’s performances weren’t inspiring, obviously. But at this point I just don’t care. These opportunities aren’t being wasted by 30 something year olds with zero future anymore. 

Kind of agree I’m tired of seeing 30 year old failures and has beens being trotted out by the Twins. I don’t like any minor leaguers over 26/27. If you can’t figure it out by then, you’ll never make it. 

[David HK]

Glad to have a chance to "see what we have" in the 2 gems we got from the fire sale.

Woof.

[JADBP]

It’s official!! Twins lose 2/3 to 2nd worst team in AL.  I think this makes them the WORST team in the AL right now!  
 

Disgusting . . .

[Woof Bronzer]

27 minutes ago, David HK said:

Glad to have a chance to "see what we have" in the 2 gems we got from the fire sale.

Woof.

Yes, I agree!

[Danchat]

Abel struggling is one thing, but this is Bradley's third full year as a starting pitcher in the majors... I really have to wonder if there was a better package on the table for Jax rather than swapping him with a struggling starter straight-up. I understand that Jax isn't having the best year but he had value, and I would have preferred taking the package of several farther away prospects. Maybe they can transition Taj to the pen and make some bullpen magic?

[terrydactyls]

The Twins probably can't catch the White Sox or Pirates, but they are hanging tough in third place for top pick.

P	Team	W	L	PCT	Eligible
1	Colorado Rockies	37	94	0.282	N0
2	Chicago White Sox	47	83	0.362
3	Washington Nationals	53	77	0.408	N0
4	Pittsburgh Pirates	57	74	0.435
5	Atlanta Braves	59	71	0.454
6	Minnesota Twins	59	71	0.454
8	Whatever Athletics	60	72	0.455
7	Baltimore Orioles	60	70	0.462
9	Miami Marlins	61	69	0.469
10	Los Angeles Angels	61	69	0.469
11	San Francisco Giants	63	68	0.481
12	Tampa Bay Rays	63	67	0.485
13	Arizona Diamondbacks	64	67	0.489
14	St. Louis Cardinals	64	67	0.489
15	Texas Rangers	66	66	0.500

[jkcarew]

1 hour ago, terrydactyls said:

The Twins probably can't catch the White Sox or Pirates, but they are hanging tough in third place for top pick.

P	Team	W	L	PCT	Eligible
1	Colorado Rockies	37	94	0.282	N0
2	Chicago White Sox	47	83	0.362
3	Washington Nationals	53	77	0.408	N0
4	Pittsburgh Pirates	57	74	0.435
5	Atlanta Braves	59	71	0.454
6	Minnesota Twins	59	71	0.454
8	Whatever Athletics	60	72	0.455
7	Baltimore Orioles	60	70	0.462
9	Miami Marlins	61	69	0.469
10	Los Angeles Angels	61	69	0.469
11	San Francisco Giants	63	68	0.481
12	Tampa Bay Rays	63	67	0.485
13	Arizona Diamondbacks	64	67	0.489
14	St. Louis Cardinals	64	67	0.489
15	Texas Rangers	66	66	0.500

Pohlads hoping to slide in the lottery. If they could trade the pick, they would.

[Doctor Wu]

Another depressing series of games, but I'm not giving up on either Abel or Bradley yet. They both have shown talent in the minors and/or the majors (Bradley had some great starts with Tampa Bay), so this is just another period where we need to let them pitch, learn from their mistakes, and hope, really hope that it clicks. 

[Doctor Gast]

11 hours ago, AceWrigley said:

Half of that is the positioning of the infielders doesn't coincide with the pitch selection or maybe execution from the pitchers. If Cal Ripken were watching he'd be tearing his hair out. Ummm, too late for that. 🙂

Thank you, Ace for going more in-depth on my statement. IMO, many didn't realize how much Correa, in his expertise, was able to help position the other INFers to maximize the defense. Julien was bad at 2B, he would have been much worse w/o Correa.

[Riverbrian]

I haven't really been able to update while I was on my road trip. I'm back home now so let's get caught up. 

As of this morning. 

The Chicago White Sox have 18 pre-arb players. The Twins also have 18. 

The White Sox are 47-83 while the Twins are 59-71. 

I didn't update the previous series so let's do get caught up.

The Athletics currently have 21 pre-arb players. 

The Tigers have 13 and the Yankees have 9. The A's are 60-72, Tigers 78-64 and the Yankees are 70-60. 

Youth doesn't means wins. Youth doesn't mean losses. 

[jmlease1]

Good thing Keaschall continues to hit, because he's been looking rough on defense. If this had been Ed Julien booting the ball like this, people would be calling for his head. Fortunately, Keaschall has a visually pleasing style at the plate or he might be getting criticized for his poor defense. For me, while I'm willing to give him a pass on throwing issues since he's coming back from surgery and a busted arm...it's not too great seeing him boot grounders.

Disappointing start from Bradley, who doesn't really get the rookie excuses since he's made more than a few MLB appearances. Definitely not what the Twins wanted to see back-to-back from two of their most notable trade deadline acquisitions. CWS are not a good team and Bradley got rocked.

Offense is bad. Need reinforcements here. Seems unlikely we're going to get them with the Cheap Pohlads in charge.

[Bodie]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

Thank you, Ace for going more in-depth on my statement. IMO, many didn't realize how much Correa, in his expertise, was able to help position the other INFers to maximize the defense. Julien was bad at 2B, he would have been much worse w/o Correa.

Not sure how you get worse than the worst 2B since Steve Sax had a public nervous breakdown in the Bronx, but it might be the one thing I'd have confidence in Julien doing...

[NotAboutWinning]

"Negligible" is being kind.

[BrokenCompass]

14 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

I am weary of how many times Falvey & Sons struggle to identify talent. Oh well, maybe things change in the future. Why does it seem like a few GM's are excited to discuss Ryan and Lopez with the Twins brain trust this coming offseason?

Doesn't it seem like Griffin Jax might have returned a guy like Harry Ford? I guess it gets tough when a team takes 15 minutes to complete a deal. Doesn't leave much time to float other offers or interest.

Nobody was too surprised that the White Sox took the series. 

Twins got Joe Ryan for Nelson Cruz. 

They can identify talent - it just seems that during this teardown they really missed. Unfortunate considering that they dismantled the entire team for what appears to be a bag of magic beans. 

[BrokenCompass]

10 hours ago, Danchat said:

Abel struggling is one thing, but this is Bradley's third full year as a starting pitcher in the majors... I really have to wonder if there was a better package on the table for Jax rather than swapping him with a struggling starter straight-up. I understand that Jax isn't having the best year but he had value, and I would have preferred taking the package of several farther away prospects. Maybe they can transition Taj to the pen and make some bullpen magic?

I agree it would be nice to salvage something from him - but it seems like "put him in the bullpen" is a catch-all solution for players that just aren't performing. The shine is coming off Connor Prielipp? Put him in the bullpen. Simeon Woods-Richardson can't pitch more than 4.2 innings? Put him in the bullpen. Taj Bradley gets rocked by the worst team in baseball? Put him in the bullpen. 

Maybe these guys just aren't that good? Twins seem to have an awful lot of starting pitching prospects that we're now just hoping for a Hail Mary that they might be good for 2-3 outs per game. 

[David Maro]

How about escorting Maki out the door!! Oh that's right he's Rocco guy. Team is now going to get smoked by the Blue Jay's and the Padres.

[jmlease1]

41 minutes ago, BrokenCompass said:

I agree it would be nice to salvage something from him - but it seems like "put him in the bullpen" is a catch-all solution for players that just aren't performing. The shine is coming off Connor Prielipp? Put him in the bullpen. Simeon Woods-Richardson can't pitch more than 4.2 innings? Put him in the bullpen. Taj Bradley gets rocked by the worst team in baseball? Put him in the bullpen. 

Maybe these guys just aren't that good? Twins seem to have an awful lot of starting pitching prospects that we're now just hoping for a Hail Mary that they might be good for 2-3 outs per game. 

I don't think the shine is coming off Prielipp, it's just he's had 2 major elbow surgeries and there's real concern about whether or not he'll ever be able to hold up as a starter. This season he's thrown more innings than he has in the prior 4 seasons (college and pro) combined...and he's still only thrown 65 innings to date. I don't think anyone has come down on his ability, and if they have they're foolish to do so.

It's fair to be concerned about Bradley: he's new to the organization, not new to MLB. But I also think they people pushing for SWR to go to the bullpen are doing a lot of the "oooh, shiny new thing!" for why they want him moved there, rather than reflect what the Twins might think of him. He's been able to compete as a starter, better than some of our other guys, but since he's not an instant star people are already tossing him over the side for the next shiny object that you can project all your hopes and dreams on who hasn't had a chance to disappoint yet.

[LambchoP]

I wonder what I and of offensive help we can get from trading Lopez? I would hate to lose him, but paying an ace 20 million a year on a last place team just doesn't make sense. Now keeping Ryan and attempting to build a rotation around him does make sense. Falvey needs to clear the dead weight on this team though. Clear up the 40 man roster spots for upcoming prospects and free agents. Gasper should be nowhere near a major league team. Same with Outman, Roden, Wallner, Julien, Miranda. I'd rather see a new young "core" get called up and develop together in the majors.

[ashbury]

3 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Youth doesn't means wins. Youth doesn't mean losses. 

I dunno.  I'm not good with MS Excel charts ("Chart Title," LOL), but the data you provided looks like a pretty strong trend with one outlier (the White Sox).

[Danchat]

4 hours ago, BrokenCompass said:

I agree it would be nice to salvage something from him - but it seems like "put him in the bullpen" is a catch-all solution for players that just aren't performing. The shine is coming off Connor Prielipp? Put him in the bullpen. Simeon Woods-Richardson can't pitch more than 4.2 innings? Put him in the bullpen. Taj Bradley gets rocked by the worst team in baseball? Put him in the bullpen. 

Maybe these guys just aren't that good? Twins seem to have an awful lot of starting pitching prospects that we're now just hoping for a Hail Mary that they might be good for 2-3 outs per game. 

True, though the reason why I say "put him in the bullpen" often is because this strategy is the easiest way to create relievers and this team is badly in need of them in 2026.

I will say that if Bradley has no idea where his pitches are going, moving to the pen isn't going to help. It's more likely to help the kinds of pitchers whose stuff isn't quite good enough / they struggle in the 2nd/3rd time through the lineup.

Yeah, these guys might not be that good. But it's worth figuring out if they can function as a reliever before giving up on them.

[Riverbrian]

3 hours ago, ashbury said:

I dunno.  I'm not good with MS Excel charts ("Chart Title," LOL), but the data you provided looks like a pretty strong trend with one outlier (the White Sox).

People who know such things have often said that if you own a book store. They say you should name your book store "Books" so everyone knows what you sell. 

Therefore "Chart Title" is a perfect name because everybody knows that they will be reviewing a chart. 

I'd like to see all 30 teams on that chart but come this time of year it can be a little misleading post trade deadline. The Twins for example started with 8 pre-arb and have risen to 18 post deadline. The Tigers started with 18 Pre-arb and have dropped to 13 post deadline. 

All in all.. I'm just trying to show everyone that pre-arb players make up a majority portion of the majority of teams and I'm trying to show that youth isn't necessarily scary and that vets are not necessarily guaranteed producers. 

I believe that Pre-Arb players have a similar production range that free agents on one or two contracts produce.

I believe they have similar production ranges from Bad to Good with one major consideration. The Pre-Arb players makes the minimum along with club control that provide potential production upticks and the one year contract free agent cost at least double if not 10 times more per player and provides no future benefit to the club. 

The Twins have shot up to 18 pre-arb players and that's good. (let's see if they invest the money saved in the off-season which remains to be determined).

I just wish that reaching 18 pre-arb players didn't happen all at once with massive amounts of deadline deals. I wish it have been something that was accumulated year by year. I still hope for that day. 

[sweetmusicviola16]

47 minutes ago, Danchat said:

True, though the reason why I say "put him in the bullpen" often is because this strategy is the easiest way to create relievers and this team is badly in need of them in 2026.

I will say that if Bradley has no idea where his pitches are going, moving to the pen isn't going to help. It's more likely to help the kinds of pitchers whose stuff isn't quite good enough / they struggle in the 2nd/3rd time through the lineup.

Yeah, these guys might not be that good. But it's worth figuring out if they can function as a reliever before giving up on them.

That would be Richardson. Good stuff most times once or twice through the order then he's done. Unless you're OK with a guy that only gives you 4 plus innings. But if you are, then you better have a deep pen. Which we do not. Of all the guys we've discussed of converting Richardson would be my top choice.