Like It or Not, Pohlads Staying Put Means Stability for Twins Leadership

[RpR]

Buxton, Baldelli happy about Pohlads remaining Twins' principal owners

https://www.mlb.com/news/byron-buxton-rocco-baldelli-talk-pohlads-staying-as-twins-owners

[Wedman13]

8 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

I'm not going to dignify that title by reading it.

Read the room, good god.

How can't folks understand Cody was stating facts, not his supported desires.  Pretty unfair responses.  I hate it, but what he has stated is true.

[Wedman13]

3 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

I mean....you slap a headline like that on your article.....you sorta bring it on yourself?

Look, maybe there is a time to talk about the fact that there will be "stability".  But today?  With that headline?  It's so tone deaf you can't be shocked when people read into it with their feelings.

The headline is reality, not opinion.

[h2oface]

2 hours ago, Doc Lenz said:

Glad everyone has all the answers and can see into the future. What if Mauer and someone else are the limited partners? Plus they would have input into baseball operations? The conjecture here is nothing but conjecture. No one here including me has any idea what is coming. Moping, crying and complaining is certainly your right but it does no good because it is what it is right now. Cheer on the players and enjoy your home team.

What ifs? Time for What ifs?

What if Mauer? Why then doesn’t he say so if it is? Deal not actually a deal yet? Afraid to? What if a minority owner doesn’t have input that means anything? After all, they won’t be managing partners. Why suggest anything since no one here including you has any idea what is coming? 
 

 Sell your family and bring in a cheaper group and cheer them on just the same and enjoy your new home. Why not? They are your new home team. Love them the same as the last one!

[Fatbat]

Well yes, the Pohlads still own most of the team and control the culture and dynamics of the organization but what if the investors work within to make positive changes? 
Two investors that essentially bring bail out $$$$ to the table are going to want to make a profit AND bring an EGO driven result winner to its fans.  
Lets go down the road of indifference (I am for now) …. How far does that road go when the team starts winning on a regular basis?

Like it or not, we won’t have a $200M payroll of star players anytime soon but we will have a ton of youngsters to cheer for as underdogs in ‘26/27.  Cheer for the kids and hate the Pohlads frugality has worked for me for the last 30 years. At least now I can hope on a minority investor advocating in a board room that player x, y & z need to be paid by us instead of playing for someone in the visitors dugout. Maybe, the investors will put their money and their ideas into a culture of winning instead of just winning  someday.  
Go ahead and be indifferent for now.  I am already down that road but will be watching for the intersection of the road to “Twins Win, Twins Win” .

[twinssporto]

8 hours ago, Doc Lenz said:

Glad everyone has all the answers and can see into the future. What if Mauer and someone else are the limited partners? Plus they would have input into baseball operations? The conjecture here is nothing but conjecture. No one here including me has any idea what is coming. Moping, crying and complaining is certainly your right but it does no good because it is what it is right now. Cheer on the players and enjoy your home team.

Having Mauer involved does not necessarily mean success. Ask the Marlins how Jeter did while involved with that franchise.

[Russ]

Stability for those who should be  replaced?  Awarding mediocrity 

[TwinsDr2021]

14 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

I 100% agree with your take on indifference.

Without getting into the discussion of the good/bad view of Falvey/Rocco, I do not think making a change at either/both of those positions moves the public perception needle. Less die-hards want to see successful players, cheaper tickets, the ability to find the game on television, positive national recognition.

I think Rocco is the face of the failures, not Falvey, and I think firing him helps with public perception. I don't really think firing Falvey and keeping Rocco is an option. 

But the hatred of Rocco is real, not sure the casual fan know enough about Falvey to have hatred. 

IMO the order of hatred by casual fans is Owners, Managers and then any high priced player, then injured players, Falvey is some place lower on the list. 

And if the piece of sh!t owners had half a brain they would realize this and do something, anything to try to win back some casual fan support. 

[TwinsDr2021]

9 hours ago, Doc Lenz said:

Glad everyone has all the answers and can see into the future. What if Mauer and someone else are the limited partners? Plus they would have input into baseball operations? The conjecture here is nothing but conjecture. No one here including me has any idea what is coming. Moping, crying and complaining is certainly your right but it does no good because it is what it is right now. Cheer on the players and enjoy your home team.

Not sure what Mauer being a minority owner does to help, but if we are playing the what if game, I am going to with @chpettit19 won the mega millions and is one of the minority owners and is taking over at GM (just an FYI, I am available in an assistant role) 

 

As for you second part of not knowing what is coming, that could be said about anything in life, but you take history and other things that have been done and project,

FYI that is baseball works. Sure you can bury your head in the stand and think this 28 year old career minor player is going to work, and ignore the 1000's of examples that says it doesn't. We have seen how this front office works for 8 plus years do you think that is going to change? Sure there has been a surprise here and there (Donaldson, Correa) , but they are going to go cheap, they are going to believe in their process they will makes some trades but ultimately the changes will be around the edge, the team next year will be built the same way as the teams the last 4 years. 

[wavedog]

After the trade deadline selloff - my only hope was that we would get new ownership and new baseball people because I don't trust the current baseball group to be able to develop talent, teach fundamentals  and form a baseball team - not just a collection of individuals.   It appears that hope is now gone.  The best possible situation I can hope now is that the infusion of new money will let our payroll go back up to maybe average,  but not sure I trust the management group to be able to use it wisely.   

[Whitey333]

Yes the non selling of the team is bad.  The out and out bs that keeps coming from the Pohlads is just outrageous.  This means Falvey and Baldelli are here to stay to "lead" this franchise.  Good lord the dark ages are here.

[chpettit19]

58 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Not sure what Mauer being a minority owner does to help, but if we are playing the what if game, I am going to with @chpettit19 won the mega millions and is one of the minority owners and is taking over at GM (just an FYI, I am available in an assistant role) 

 

As for you second part of not knowing what is coming, that could be said about anything in life, but you take history and other things that have been done and project,

FYI that is baseball works. Sure you can bury your head in the stand and think this 28 year old career minor player is going to work, and ignore the 1000's of examples that says it doesn't. We have seen how this front office works for 8 plus years do you think that is going to change? Sure there has been a surprise here and there (Donaldson, Correa) , but they are going to go cheap, they are going to believe in their process they will makes some trades but ultimately the changes will be around the edge, the team next year will be built the same way as the teams the last 4 years. 

The surprise twist is that I'm actually Joe Pohlad so I'm not a minority owner, but I am going to take over at POBO. The right size for my business now is to do it all myself.

[TopGunn#22]

This news just kind of lets the air out of the balloon of hope we all had.  I don't know how many times I referenced "once the new ownership group takes over and we get a new FO,  manager and coaching staff to bring a new strategic plan and philosophy..."

Well, there is egg all over my face now.  It's like I was in purgatory, was told I would be going to heaven soon, and then found out heaven wouldn't happen for another million years.   Howeda said, if passion gives way to indifference, then the franchise is cooked until new owners emerge.  I can't think of a less positive development than the Pohlad family remaining as majority owners.  With Glen Taylor finally going away for the T-Wolves and the positivity of the Wilf family owning the Vikings, it's clear that of the 4 major sports franchises in Minnesota, the Pohlad family, as owners, are the most reviled.

So if attendance, selling Twins merchandise and the rest of it hits rock bottom, how long do the Pohlad's hold out??  Every sports franchise business model is dependent on selling tickets to the games.  Selling LOTS of tickets.  TV revenue is not enough.  You could always assume that with all the young talent the Twins have now, they could become a winning team in the near future. After all, life is never so bad if you compete in the A.L. Central. But with the fanbase disgusted with the owners, the FO and the manager, will a winning team even matter??  

Can the Twins sell enough tickets?  It seems highly doubtful.  How are the new investors going to react, when in 2-3 years they realize the Twins are a money pit and they're not seeing any positivity on their investment?  The fanbase is already inflamed.  What happens if Joe Ryan or Pablo Lopez are traded this off season?  What if BOTH are traded???  

Most of us in TD follow baseball pretty closely.  If any part of the fanbase can get excited about "prospects" coming over in a Ryan or Lopez trade, it's US !!  But very few of us WANT to see Ryan or Lopez traded and the average fan will have very little to zero appreciation for a "prospect" they know nothing about and who made not even make it to the major league roster for a couple of years.  By the time they do, the average fan won't even remember that prospect arrived as part of a Ryan or Lopez trade.

I didn't think things could get any lower for the Twins following the "trade deadline massacre."  How foolish I was.  With the Twins, it seems things can always get WORSE.  

 

[spanman2]

17 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

The floor for their commitment to building a winning team and culture is funding a payroll that is at the league median. By sportrac that would be around 159 million this year. I assume that moves up but 160 million next year would be a good entry point for commitment.

All they had to do in '24 was leave payroll alone...I believe in '23 it was 163 or so...no one was expecting 200+, just like no one was expecting a 30 decrease. 

[CarpetGuy]

12 hours ago, Doc Lenz said:

Glad everyone has all the answers and can see into the future. What if Mauer and someone else are the limited partners? Plus they would have input into baseball operations? The conjecture here is nothing but conjecture. No one here including me has any idea what is coming. Moping, crying and complaining is certainly your right but it does no good because it is what it is right now. Cheer on the players and enjoy your home team.

I agree with Doc Lenz here.  We fans can simply fold our tents and look for another team to cheer on, or we can take a cleansing breath, be happy to move on from the front office debacles of the Correa, Mahle and Paddack transactions (a few others as well) and embrace a future with our excellent existing core and the outstanding talent we have coming up in the next 2 or 3 years.   Yes, we’ll all miss the 10 players we just moved at the trade deadline, but as hope springs eternal I’m looking forward to the fresh new faces we’ll see in 2026.

 

[Pat]

The  Pohlads should write a book and entitle it, " How To Be Tone Deaf and Completely Mismanage a Sports Franchise."

[TheLeviathan]

10 hours ago, Wedman13 said:

The headline is reality, not opinion.

I wouldn't label it as "stability" - that gives off a positive connotation.  

How about stagnant?  Rigid?  Complacent?

The frame you present your argument in....is part of the argument.

[mnfireman]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/mlb-just-moved-one-big-step-closer-to-a-lockout-that-could-ruin-the-sport/ar-AA1KthHR?ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=23b2473b2fe84e6fdf250a035e06b550&ei=11

[jmlease1]

12 hours ago, mluebker said:

They aren’t interested in winning, they’re interested in making a profit. Time for the Pohlads to refocus on their banking business and find somebody to buy the team that actually likes baseball.

Pohlads exited the banks years ago as well. If anything, the primary family business these days is commercial real estate, which is going through some real struggles as an industry. But they're diversified as well. The Twins are probably the single biggest, saleable asset though. 

"Stability" was a poor term for what we're likely to see for Twins leadership: stagnation is a better term at this point.

I can respect loyalty and there is something to be said for not being reactionary in your decision-making for sports franchises; we've seen many times in pro sports how teams get sunk by wild/impulsive moves (are things going well for the Phoenix Suns?). And stable organizations tend to do better over the long term, and can often bring sustained success. But you also can't get complacent. You have to recognize when things are going in the wrong direction or when new voices are needed.

And the Pohlads have pretty consistently shown complacency since '86. The only real instances of them being somewhat aggressive is moving out Bill Smith (who had a bunch of notable and high profile fails) and Molitor (who still got 4 full seasons).

I don't have the hate or contempt for Falvey that some do around here, but he's had 9 years, and instead of getting us to sustainable winning, they've missed the playoffs 4 of the last 5 seasons and are back in a rebuild. Twins may not be losing 90+ games like they did in the late 90's or early '10s, but there's been a lot of mediocrity. They haven't developed enough hitters, even if the pitching pipeline that some like to mock constantly is actually looking pretty deep and strong. I don't have the hate or contempt for Rocco (and I refuse to make up stuff about him like some people do pretty consistently) than many around here do, but they've missed the playoffs 4 of the last 5 seasons and he's had 7 seasons to lead the squad.

It's more than fair to say it's time for someone else to get a turn at the tiller. But it seems like we won't get that, and expectations appear to have been drastically lowered by ownership, back to the bad old days. 

Ownership is responsible for setting expectations of the baseball staff. They're responsible for making smart business decisions, and putting together a competent business operation to market the team and grow the fanbase. The Pohlad Family is a failure at that, and their version of "stability" is a continuation of that kind of failure.

[mluebker]

44 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

The Pohlad Family is a failure at that, and their version of "stability" is a continuation of that kind of failure.

Yes. Regardless of whether they're in banking or real estate, they aren't in baseball to field winning teams. 

[tony&rodney]

3 minutes ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

Tony, I always love your takes as they are usually spot on, but this one is kind of hypocritical IMO.  You wonder whether the Brewers FO could build the Twins like the Brewers with a cheaper payroll and younger team. That is exactly what our FO just did.  They traded older players (Varland excluded) who were about to get expensive for younger cheaper players who MAY be exciting to watch just like the Brewers.

Thank you for the kind words.

I'm not and never have been a Pohlad family fan. In fact, I fought the purchase in 1984 but MLB only approved Old Carl.

The reference to Milwaukee should have been better explained by my comment. I'm sorry for the poor wording. Before I try to explain, I must say that I reject that the Twins are building a team through the recent trades. That was a sell-off for financial purposes. The weakness of the team was in position players. The problem still remains. Any hope rests solely with prospects, most of them were already in the system before the trades.

Milwaukee has an owner who is quite transparent concerning the limits of their financial support. The Milwaukee market is roughly just more than half the size of the Twins market. Milwaukee is either the smallest or second smallest market in MLB by any measure.

The Milwaukee front office has a strong view on identification of potential players to sign, draft, or acquire. There is a strong development, promotion, and playing style for their franchise. The differences in playing style and philosophy of winning or development between the Brewers and Twins are vast. The Twins adhere to (fill in the blank), while the Brewers use every tactic ever known in baseball. They play the game with an open mind. 

If the Twins copied everything the Brewers do starting today I could get on board with the current front office. 

Finally, the Pohlads have zero baseball knowledge. Signing and then trading Carlos Correa were probably their only contacts with player personnel in the 9 year Falvey era. They are terrible absentee owners who are apparently also lacking any business acumen. The team we see on the field is therefore, by process of elimination, a direct product of the mind of Derek Falvey alone. I'm not sure how any other conclusion can be drawn. 

[Brandon]

This leadership group got us a playoff series win and everything since, I pin on the owners and some bad performances.  During the winter the front office makes good moves that I usually agree with.  Last offseason we signed a few good bench players that were everyday players leaving no one good on the bench which hurt.  The Twins of recent depend on rotating their bench players in often so a 100-110 OPS+ is a good thing to have off the bench.  We don’t have that this season.  Lewis and Correa not hitting like we hoped either.  We were one good hitter short otherwise and Falvey was given scraps.  He did good with what he had.  Coloumbe, Bader and I guess France.  Kody Clemens has been a good pickup.  I don’t see how you can blame the front office after they were ordered to cut payroll after being told they were out planning on going to 180 million in payroll.  I’m sure they wouldn’t have signed Correa if they knew what was going to happen to payroll.  

[Brandon]

I will give the Pohlads this.  They have been even handed as owners but I think the losses from COVID and the media contract situation has them losing a lot the last 5 years hence the desire to sell and stuff.  Not giving them a pass for the trade deadline BS but a little understanding.

[Nshore]

If the Pohlads grow enough sense to stand aside and let their baseball people run things, the Twins might have a chance.  Drew MacPhail, their Director of Player Development, most likely learned a few things from his father who guided the Twins to their 2 World Series wins.  Let them work.

[howeda7]

3 hours ago, spanman2 said:

All they had to do in '24 was leave payroll alone...I believe in '23 it was 163 or so...no one was expecting 200+, just like no one was expecting a 30 decrease. 

All  they had to do was shut the F up. If they had just "tried and tried" to re-sign Sonny Gray and he went to St. Louis, the payroll would have gone down to the $130 million it was. Announcing it in advance the way Joe Pohlad did is one of stupidest self-inflicted PR things I've ever seen. Perhaps only topped by his grandpa Carl's announcement that he was "giving" 49% of the team to the State for a stadium back in the 90's when he was really selling it. 

And making the announcement yesterday instead of waiting until the new minority partners could be revealed is similarly dumb. People would still be upset, but if there were actual names, faces and some sense of what will change it would be easier to take.

[howeda7]

35 minutes ago, Nshore said:

If the Pohlads grow enough sense to stand aside and let their baseball people run things, the Twins might have a chance.  Drew MacPhail, their Director of Player Development, most likely learned a few things from his father who guided the Twins to their 2 World Series wins.  Let them work.

Can we fire Falvey and promote him?

[howeda7]

2 hours ago, Pat said:

The  Pohlads should write a book and entitle it, " How To Be Tone Deaf and Completely Mismanage a Sports Franchise."

If they did, they would sign a deal to distribute it exclusively through Barns and Noble in print. No e-version. Not available on Amazon. Then they would be puzzled by the lack of sales.

[Nshore]

2 minutes ago, howeda7 said:

Can we fire Falvey and promote him?

I'm trying to give Falvey the benefit of the doubt.  How much of this is Falvey and how much is the Pohlads we'll never know.

[howeda7]

1 minute ago, Nshore said:

I'm trying to give Falvey the benefit of the doubt.  How much of this is Falvey and how much is the Pohlads we'll never know.

The Pohlad's give Derek a budget. And I'm sure he'd like it to be higher. But they don't meddle beyond that. So he owns pretty much everything else about the current team. His fellow GM's with even less $$ in Tampa, Cleveland, KC, Milwaukee etc. are all lapping him in success. He deserves to be fired.  

[Doc Lenz]

10 hours ago, twinssporto said:

Having Mauer involved does not necessarily mean success. Ask the Marlins how Jeter did while involved with that franchise.

Also doesn’t mean in won’t work.