Twins Lackluster Attendance and Impacts On the Team’s Sale

[Linus]

34 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I think it's a massive overreaction and the Twin Cities are as safe as St Cloud. I will agree that there are people who say things like that. However, it doesn't explain why the Vikings, Wild and Wolves are still able to draw fans while the Twins are struggling.

This. You can’t get a ticket for the Vikings or Wild. There is a weird vibe to the claims of how unsafe the Cities are. 

[DJL44]

3 minutes ago, Byrdman said:

Honestly, no one can afford to go to the game.  We cant anymore, sports and entertainment was the first thing cut with everything else getting so expensive.  20$ for parking, family of 5 for mid range tickets are 200$.  Food for the kids and family another 150$.  Why would I do that when we can go to a park or other things that are way cheaper.  My kids will probably enjoy the cheaper option more than the game anyway.  

People seem to be able to afford tickets to the NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA hockey, MLS, Gopher football and the WNBA. Concerts downtown are well attended. Twins tickets are often cheaper than those other entertainment options. Going to a Twins game can be cheaper than seeing a movie at the theater.

[Parfigliano]

24 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I agree with you on safety, but the Wolves have Ant and a have been spending money on trying to win, the Wild are the different because it is the state of hockey, the Vikings play 9 home games. The Twins don't have that star power, they play a boring brand of baseball and there are 162 games.

If Jenkins, EROD or some early 20's guys that had a hall of fame type tragedy it would help, might not overcome everything but it would help, nobody except a few people on here care to watch Keirsay, Gasper, Vazquez or any of the unproven 26+ unproven players.

Edit Add - I will add that while most people I know believe that downtown is safe, most also don't like giving MPLS any of there money.

I think I can safely say nobody on here wants to watch Gasper.

[Patzky]

10 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

I think I can safely say nobody on here wants to watch Gasper.

His family saw his hit in St Louis. We good.

[The Great Hambino]

39 minutes ago, Linus said:

This. You can’t get a ticket for the Vikings or Wild. There is a weird vibe to the claims of how unsafe the Cities are. 

It's a claim made almost universally by people that haven't actually set foot in the downtown area in over five years.

I go to a dozen or so games a year.  Sometimes with small children.  Unless you count the one time there was an old lady smoking a cigarette on the Green Line, never once has there been anything close to anything resembling a safety issue

[nicksaviking]

Pretty sure we as fans are screwed either way. If the prospective buyer(s) are willing to pay 1.5B but playing hardball going up to 1.7B, I we can all but be guaranteed that these are prospective owners we do NOT want running this team.

[Byrdman]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

People seem to be able to afford tickets to the NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA hockey, MLS, Gopher football and the WNBA. Concerts downtown are well attended. Twins tickets are often cheaper than those other entertainment options. Going to a Twins game can be cheaper than seeing a movie at the theater.

Oh i understand that, but more so on this economy.  What is the first thing most people cut when they have less money than normal.  Entertainment and sporting events.  Average family goes to say 5-10 events a year? With the economy now, they can to maybe go to 1-2 a year.  That is all I am trying to get to.  This is not you or Phil down the street with season tickets.  This is a family of 5 with dad/mom working everyday to provide to feed and house a family. 

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, bean5302 said:

The Twins are following a broken model for marketing. It's old fashioned, out of date, and it won't be successful.

The Twins should to be marketing to the fans at the Minnesota United games. They should to be marketing to high schools. They absolutely need to be marketing to people in the North Loop. I mean.. come on, that's just... it's just marketing 101. But the Twins don't.

Right, their marketing philosophy is insane. They're trying to sell tickets to out state people who live off the kinds of news programs that tell them to never go to Minneapolis or they'll be kidnapped and murdered, meanwhile the highest density population in the state, which also happens to be amongst the wealthiest populations in the state is in their backyard; walkable and full of young professionals with disposable income because they are largely without children and other responsibilities.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

Target Field is considered as much in North Loop as it is downtown. Based on your comments, not sure you spend much time there or near there.

Certainly not since they were in first place last summer....

Most people (including MLB's description of TF's location) consider TF located in the Minneapolis' downtown warehouse district.  Congrats on your local knowledge.

You're avoiding the big question about the big picture....

[Richie the Rally Goat]

13 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Pretty sure we as fans are screwed either way. If the prospective buyer(s) are willing to pay 1.5B but playing hardball going up to 1.7B, I we can all but be guaranteed that these are prospective owners we do NOT want running this team.

The Pohlads are trying to package 425m in debt with the sale, so think of it more like 1.5b to 2.1b. More than 25% delta

[DJL44]

25 minutes ago, Byrdman said:

Average family goes to say 5-10 events a year? With the economy now, they can to maybe go to 1-2 a year.  That is all I am trying to get to. 

I agree with this. More and more it seems like the event they're skipping is a Twins game. They're still going to the State Fair, a hockey or basketball game, a football game, and a concert.

[twins_89]

The cratering attendance seems pretty heavily correlated with the ownership's decision to cut payroll. This choice demoralized the fanbase and we are seeing the result. The other issue is that there has been nothing to generate excitement in over 2 years. The team hasn't made the playoffs and there have been zero acquisitions that are even a little interesting.

[lukeduke1980]

A lot of good posts here that resonate.   Star power has put butts in seats before despite costs.  It's just not there.  

[bean5302]

1 hour ago, Minderbinder said:

Certainly not since they were in first place last summer....

Most people (including MLB's description of TF's location) consider TF located in the Minneapolis' downtown warehouse district.  Congrats on your local knowledge.

You're avoiding the big question about the big picture....

Downtown is a generic term for the area of a city where there is a high concentration of tall buildings. There is no such thing as "downtown warehouse district" neighborhood. The name of that neighborhood is "North Loop." You're right in that I don't understand what your version of the big picture actually is. 

I had season tickets from 2022-2024, and I've attended at least 80 games during that span, plus I have quite a few friends who like to hang out in North Loop so I meet them out there fairly regularly. The North Loop neighborhood is vibrant, very busy, and it continues to build up even today. 

"Downtown Minneapolis" has never had a particularly strong neighborhood vibe as residential buildings have been scarce for many decades which is why downtown has typically been absolutely dead on weekends. For the past 2 years, there's been a lot of turnover in the actual Downtown West and Downtown East spaces, but gradually, conditions are improving as many companies are making a push back to the office, partially to avoid wasting money on vacant buildings and to push for real estate rebounds. Downtown West continues to have trouble with assault and robberies (strip clubs, service industry workers, late night college age bar crowd), but Downtown East is safe.

The topic is about attendance. The core of the season ticket holders for the Twins should be coming from North Loop and the areas immediately around it. Season ticket holders within 5 miles of the stadium are critical. More than 15-20 miles away from the stadium is not that important because those people will attend a handful of games at most. If your argument is people in Rogers or Savage or Forest Lake are scared of Minneapolis, your big picture needs to be narrowed down. Columbia Heights, Minneapolis, St. Paul, Golden Valley, St. Louis Park, Brooklyn Center, Edina, Richfield, Roseville... the perception of Target Field safety in those cities is what matters in regard to higher attendance. People living in those cities, in general, aren't terrified of safety around Target Field.

[LA Vikes Fan]

It looks to me like the Twins don't draw well because the team isn't particularly good so far this year, was bad in the second half of last year, and the weather has been bad. Add to that the epic collapse in the last two months of 2024, the lack of action from a team that doesn't hit the ball well, and the softening economy, and you have a recipe for a drop in attendance. It's much harder to convince people to pay the prices pro sports cost to go see a somewhat boring team that frankly appears to be going nowhere fast. It strikes me that if the team improves and become truly competitive, it is likely that the fans will return. I completely understand people not wanting to spend the $200-$400 it costs to take a family of four to a baseball game to watch an uncompetitive team that doesn't hit much or play a very exciting brand of baseball. That also explains why the other pro sports teams in the area seem to draw better; they are all at least reasonably competitive/playoff bound teams. At this point, Twins have not shown that.

 

[Sjoski]

Here's why the Pohlads will NEVER get another nickel out of me. 

 I sent a kid to a Twins vs Nationals game in 2019... Gave them enough money for a ticket and a meal. 

Due to a new policy introduced mid- season my kid was forced to check in a small backpack for $10. She wasn't allowed to bring a small backpack into the stadium. Her meal money went into the Pohlads pockets. 

Pohlads won the battle, but the lost the war.

I've gone from attending 10-12 games a year to ZERO. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bean5302]

2 hours ago, jkiemele said:

Two observations from a Twins fan afar living in Arizona...

2. The price to take a family to a game now is insane. Even going solo is often more than comparable entertainment activities. The economic reality is real. You can buy Twins TV for $100 and come out way ahead, especially if there’s not much reason to see the team in person. As noted in the first point. 

Definitely cheaper to get Twins TV and watch the games than try to attend them from AZ.

2 hours ago, Byrdman said:

Honestly, no one can afford to go to the game.  We cant anymore, sports and entertainment was the first thing cut with everything else getting so expensive.  20$ for parking, family of 5 for mid range tickets are 200$.  Food for the kids and family another 150$.  Why would I do that when we can go to a park or other things that are way cheaper.  My kids will probably enjoy the cheaper option more than the game anyway.  

You can bring bottled water and food into the game. $0. But, lets plan this out for your family of 5 and compare it to the movies, shall we?

Movies: We'll say you and the fam go to the new Snow White show at AMC in Coon Rapids. Tickets = $80. Food 3 large popcorns and 6 drinks. Whatever. I'll estimate. $79. Service fees and taxes $14. Total = $179 for a family of 5 to go to the movies.

Twins: Seatgeek for Sunday (family day). Tickets, left field bleachers section 128, row 11 (lower level) where kids can run down to the first row and get balls tossed to them by the players every half inning. The seats give a good view of the game, are covered from potential rain or sun and have monitors above them. $125. 2 beers, 3 fountain drinks, 5 hot dogs, 2 popcorns, 1 bag peanuts = $42. Street parking on 4th. $9. = $176.

The Twins are cheaper than the movies, even if you're not trying to save money. There are certainly less expensive options for the Twins for a family of 5 as well like bringing in food or choosing less expensive seats (as low as $15/ea with fees). Choose a Wednesday evening game to get $1 hot dogs and save another $15. Cut back on the food a little. Whatever. Attending a Twins game with a family of 5 with some food/drink/parking/seats can be done fairly easily at $100.

[tony&rodney]

Good weather and winning baseball will help. Agree that the team seems to be poorly marketed. 

 

[RpR]

1 hour ago, Minderbinder said:

Certainly not since they were in first place last summer....

Most people (including MLB's description of TF's location) consider TF located in the Minneapolis' downtown warehouse district.  Congrats on your local knowledge.

You're avoiding the big question about the big picture....

I landscaped the Minnepolis/St.Paul metro area in the nineties and how the area is referred to now is a hodge-podge of names by people who never spent much time there.

In the Hennepin area, when Block E was destroyed, downtown (Hennepin) changed NOT for the better.

 

[1985Fan]

The product they’re selling isn’t in high demand. It’s that simple. All of the posts here about the team, the stadium, the fans reluctance to travel to watch a game, the high cost of tickets and food/beer, etc. are all part of the product. 
You can’t expect fans to flock to TF to see this team after the collapse last year and generating zero interest in the offseason. Who wants to pay to watch this team get beat and play Rocco ball? Not me! 
Get rid of Falvey and Rocco, rebuild with the young guys, get rid of the veterans, and maybe they’ll generate fan interest. When you’re running out the same product that isn’t winning, can’t hit, can’t play defense, can’t run the bases, and a manager that mismanages, they’re not going to sell tickets. 

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

The topic is about attendance. The core of the season ticket holders for the Twins should be coming from North Loop and the areas immediately around it. Season ticket holders within 5 miles of the stadium are critical.

Here's where the demographics don't help the team. 15% of the population of Minneapolis is made up of immigrants. Only 35% of the young residents are non-Hispanic white. It would be better for baseball attendance if those immigrants were mostly Dominicans, Puerto Ricans or Cubans instead of mostly Somali and Hmong. 

Your "5-10 miles from the stadium" rule is apt. It is one of the reasons the Tampa Bay Rays draw so poorly. Much of the area 5-10 miles from Tropicana Field is either Tampa Bay or the Gulf of Mexico.

[Dave Borton]

Product, branding, effective marketing, ambiance, cost.

º Product. Twins languish near the bottom of the league on steals, BA, slugging, and OPS. Very boring baseball.
º I live here and have no idea of a solid branding.
º Marketing? Where, when? 
º Ambiance is great. Love this park and ushering team is superb.
º Cost has escalated beyond the value of the experience for me.

I find myself listening to the Tigers, Yankees, Guards, and White Sox (Dickerson, Waldman, Hamilton, and Jackson announcing, respectively). A's games on when the Sandman greets me.
Ris Chatteberry? Really. Only tune in when Molitor sits in Gladden's vacant seat. I wore black for a week when radio-waves lost Provus.

Falvey and Baldelli have failed. St Peter's legacy lives on. Pohlads need to dump for $1.5BB and move on. Then look for me on a 20-strip. Until then, I will pick and choose depending on visitor and their SP.

[BillyBallLives]

1 hour ago, Sjoski said:

Here's why the Pohlads will NEVER get another nickel out of me. 

 I sent a kid to a Twins vs Nationals game in 2019... Gave them enough money for a ticket and a meal. 

Due to a new policy introduced mid- season my kid was forced to check in a small backpack for $10. She wasn't allowed to bring a small backpack into the stadium. Her meal money went into the Pohlads pockets. 

Pohlads won the battle, but the lost the war.

I've gone from attending 10-12 games a year to ZERO. 

I've had my pocket picked too, so I understand why you've gone from a dozen games a year to zero.
I attended 13 losing Twins game in a row from 2011 to 2015....I felt like my pocket was picked even that far back. 

[Craig Arko]

Perhaps after the lockout in 2027 contraction will be an option, probably for several teams.

[ScottMNTWINSFAN]

For me this problem has three parts:

*The Lack of the Dream Sale that so many of us were hoping for.

*The Collapse Last Season

*The Lack of Serious Upgrades to Our Team

And of course...the very MN Twins that we have are off to a rather sad start. It's a long season and things can change. We all hope that they do. But my morale for this team IS indeed at an all-time low. Blaming and resenting and regretting is not very effective, but it is a feeling that I have inside. We blow leads, we hit sub .200, and we have people that keep getting injured. I know that professional sports are famous for injuries. But does it seem to others...Buxton, Correa, Lewis...that we have a problem with conditioning and keeping our athletes on the field at a higher percentage than other teams? Of course I trust our trainers, but seriously...gone are the days of Kirby Puckett and Kent Hrbek and their stamina and on-field time. And Kirby with all due respect, was not a lean machine in appearance, but still kept himself ready to go. I miss things like "durability, consistency, stamina, toughness, constancy." Hoping supreme, but extremely disappointed in these past several years.

[Dawgzilla]

No impetus to watch...no zip, zest, fire, excitement to.  Owners make fans not want to go.  Twins can't hit worth a ___!  Waayyy to much to go watch a team that isn't going anywhere, let alone not backed by present ownership.  Lastly, MLB has a real problem with the money teams and the proverbial "small market teams", meaning most teams have little to no chance in present format to sniff a world series!!!!  This also is another reason for poor attendance.  Sorry!!!!

[Dawgzilla]

Brutal games to watch....very boring!!!!???  Again, team can't hit and pitchers fold late in games= disaster and a 4-9 record to go with it.  I wouldn't go, even if tickets are free, being I'm from outstate, would have to pay much for multiple good seats (if payed), parking costs, hotel costs, gas to get there, concessions are expensive, etc ..!  No thanks!  It really is hard to "pay" just watching them on TV, even though my cable did agree to cover them= I'm sure there is a price hikes coming soon for it....whatever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Fezig]

7 hours ago, #3Killer said:

You are making this too complicated. I choose not to drive 4 hours and spend several hundred dollars to see a lackluster effort by participant's, Baldelli’s  insane lineup manipulations, and a team that cumulatively hits below the Mendoza line. If they fire up and start playing well- I’ll be there. 

I'd add, if I may, 4 inning starts for pitchers, 6 relievers, poor defense, and over 1/3 of outs by K. 

[Woof Bronzer]

4 hours ago, Minderbinder said:

Certainly not since they were in first place last summer....

Most people (including MLB's description of TF's location) consider TF located in the Minneapolis' downtown warehouse district.  Congrats on your local knowledge.

You're avoiding the big question about the big picture....

It hasn't been called the warehouse district in maybe 20 years?  And nobody anywhere has ever called it the "downtown warehouse district."  Again, thanks for telling us you've never been to Minneapolis.  

[D.C Twins]

8 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

There are just so many ingredients coming together for a rebuild. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the team tries to unload Correa and Lopez near the deadline, and then sits back and puts out a league-minimum salary squad for 5-6 years. The Pohlads will collect the revenue sharing cash, pay off their debts, and then consider selling again when the next wave of prospects emerges.

Good luck unloading Correa....