Why Twins Made Right Call By Bringing Back Rocco Baldelli for 2025

[olerud]

100% disagree! He has no feel (gut) for the game! They'll NEVER win with him as manager!!!!! He's not a leader just horrible decisions!!!!!!

[JD-TWINS]

39 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

1. His record over the past several years is actually not that good and downright mediocre at best if one takes away the juiced ball season.

2. Rocco staying and firing a good part of his staff is embarrassing.  Yeah, that’s right, blame this dumpster fire on someone else. The interns better watch out.

3. Among his many faults, is that Rocco is very poor at transitioning strong, promising minor league players into true blue major leaguers.  There are a lot of reasons why this is the case.  If the Pohlads’ business model is to compete as a small/mid market team, making the most out of your draft and minor league system is paramount.  Rocco is simply a terrible fit for the business model. This is a huge Pohlad problem - not having the type of leader in place for the type of team you have.

4. We could’ve had Terry Francona? Seriously, he was back in play?

5. The “majority” of Twins fans want Rocco to stay?  Really? I’d like to see the data on that one, especially among the high revenue super fan base.  Maybe I missed the poll, but I’ll take the under on that claim.

The other Teams use a different ball in 2019?

Wallner was sent down after a glowing ‘23 stint - he fixed himself in St Paul with a bit of coaching in ‘24 and seems OK. Julien, not so good. Lee can’t hit at proper level, he needs more time in St Paul OR he was a poor draft pick? Lewis seemed to transition just fine, until he had to play regularly and pitchers made some adjustments to combat his aggressiveness……..players come and go at the AAA/MLB levels in every organization in the game initially. Then they either sink or swim with that organization or they pursue opportunities elsewhere…….very common!

A Manager that can coach and understand a tight budget situation seems to be in Baldelli’s wheelhouse per his numerous seasons in the Ray’s organization - right? Maybe he doesn’t embrace the approach but he surely understands the nuances.

[Dave Borton]

1 hour ago, Whitey333 said:

He's supposed to be the leader.  That he is not.

Bingo.

[jmlease1]

I think the impact of the manager on W-L is frequently overrated, sometimes massively overrated by fans, so I'm not that spun up about whether Rocco comes back or not. Overall, I think he's been average to good as a manager and seems to have done well at managing the clubhouse and personalities. Tactically, I think he's been generally fine; there are some things to quibble with: bullpen management (i.e, I thought they handled Alcala poorly this season), pinch hitting (not just Margot, but the practice of pulling the LH hitter early enough in the game that the pinch hitter was going to get another AB against the platoon side later in the game. Over-relied on the "try to jump on the big inning early" move), and failure to engage more in the running game despite having more players this season with the skills to utilize it.

but Rocco hasn't been bad, even with the collapse. he ran out of levers to pull with injuries and ineffectiveness; at the end of the day players have to play. It's not like he was a clown like Grifol in Chicago who never had a plan and very quickly lost the team.

If they'd moved on from him, I wouldn't have been too upset; Rocco's got plenty of money and will do just fine. He's very likely to get another MLB job if he wants it. And if the team underperforms next season, he'll be gone. If they bounce back and win the division, then he's going to contend for manager of the year.

The manager is a good target for fans and occasionally players, but we frequently overrate their impact when they're not obviously in over their heads (i.e., Grifol) or some of the few truly superior managers (i.e., Francona). 3/4 are in a mushy middle class where any of them can win Manager of the Year if their players kick butt and any of them can get fired if injuries and underperformance strike.

[Dave Borton]

1 hour ago, JD-TWINS said:

The assumption is the Manager should get the Team into the playoffs every year he manages regardless of player performance?

40% do.

[Aerodeliria]

90+% to make the playoffs in August and a 0% chance a month later. I'm sorry but that can't be ignored.

[Aerodeliria]

BTW, the injury argument is a red herring or at the very least overemphasized. Every team deals with serious injuries. It just feels like your team is the one that is bitten the worst, especially when your team starts spiralling.

[JD-TWINS]

Surprise…….watching MLB Central this a.m. & “Thad Levine has left the Twins to pursue other opportunities inside and outside of Baseball……”

That should make some people here smile!!

[USAFChief]

This defense of Rocco is as poorly written as Rocco's management.

"Vocal minority?"

"It became obvious meaningful change was needed .... would Rocco be the scapegoat"? How would needed meaningful change be a scapegoat?

His calm demeanor is "exactly what's needed for a long season"...which has ended in utter collapse twice in three seasons? And which has sputtered to a weak postseason when he did manage to get there?

 

Dedend Rocco, sure. Have at it.

But this collection of unsupported claims, flat out embellishments and platitudes?

LOL worthy. 

[In My La Z boy]

13 minutes ago, Dave Borton said:

Bingo.

Rocco is the parent that wants to be their kids friend. It doesn't work out well. Human nature is what it is. A very small percentage of people are 100% self starters & 100% self motivated. Coaching/Mentoring matters a great deal to most people. Squeezing the absolute most out of everyone, helping everyone reach their utmost potential day in, day out. That's leadership. Starts at the tippy top. Actually starts w/Pohlad. Which will always be the chief problem here.

[TopGunn#22]

Just got back from a trip to Italy with my wife and thankfully missed the last 10 games of the season.  There was a guy in our group who was a Reds fan from Cincy.  We talked about what a good fit Francona would be for both the Twins and the Reds.  I wasn't surprised the Reds won out there.  

The Twins and Reds are actually very similar teams.  Both have young, up and coming position players and pitchers.  Both have suffered tremendously from injuries to key players and pitchers.  Both had key young players fall flat on their faces after a promising 2024.

I have to call out Matthew for his "strong vocal minority" statement.  Nice try.  It's "strong" and it's "vocal" but it's absolutely NOT a minority.  Most good managers have clearly defined roles for their players.  Whether it's the bullpen or the lineup, players thrive under a clearly defined structure that plays to their strengths.  Rocco is the most disorganized manager I've ever seen for the Twins in this regard.

I would say that a bullpen, based on how this season unfolded, that would employ Duran as the closer, Jax as the 8th inning setup guy and Cole Sands as the 7th inning guy would have thrived.  Clearly defined roles.  Instead, we had games where Duran came in in the 7th or 8th inning in a non save situation.  Near the end of the season the TV broadcast put up a graphic that showed Duran's effectiveness in "save" and "non-save" situations.  It was stunning.  He's a beast when it's a "save" and terrible in the "non-save" situation. 

I understand the theory of "leverage" situations, but when you're a slave to the spreadsheet, that leads to a disorganized mish-mash of bullpen roles.  

Wallner and Larnach showed some real progress this season while other young players regressed badly.  I don't think young guys can develop in a system where they are in the lineup to begin a game and then when the opposing manager removes his right handed "opener" and inserts a lefty our current manager removes the young LH hitter for a pinch hitter in the 2nd or 3rd inning.  THAT is not conducive to development.  Not every young LH hitter is destined to be Rod Carew or Tony Oliva, but they will only learn to hit lefty's by facing them.  

Finally, we chop a bunch of coaches but leave Watkins as our 3rd base coach???  How many rallies does Watkins have to kill before we realize he's not the guy for that job??  Just bring Toby Gardenhire up as a manager in waiting and put him at 3B.  That's what he's currently doing as the Saints manager.  

So, No.  This is not a "vocal minority."  We had a chance at Francona (who our FO should be quite familiar and comfortable with) and with the immediate vote of confidence for Rocco took ourselves out of the running.  I don't doubt for a minute that the reason was the Pohlad's didn't want to pay 2 managers firing Rocco/hiring Francona. 

In Minnesota, the competition for sports revenue is intense.  The Twins are being effectively boxed out by the Vikings and T-Wolves.  On a scale of 1-10 right now, how excited is the Minnesota sports fan for the Vikings (currently at 4-0) and the T-Wolves?  How excited are they for the Twins off season and outlook for 2025?  You couldn't have a more stark contrast.  And the Twins are on the wrong side of it.    

 

[MGM4706]

This article is exactly what ownership loves!! Simply put: The acceptance of mediocrity!

The disappointing part of the Baldelli run is the lack of improvement in basic baseball fundamentals.

Kepler is the only Twins outfielder who knows how to play the walls in the outfield. Then how about missing the cut-off men or throwing to the wrong bases? Then there is base running. Not taking the extra base or the opposite trying to take the extra base when it is obvious the runner didn't have the speed to do it. All of these things happened on a regular basis all year long. And because of the "Country Club" atmosphere Baldelli has created the players knew there would be no consequences. Rocco would only say "We need to do better" week after week after week!

Maybe its an issue in St Paul. Is Gardenhire doing anything to teach Fundamentals with the Saints? If not get somebody in there that can. Its obvious the players are not prepared when they get to the Twins.

The last issue is the management of the Pitching Staff. Even down the stretch during critical playoff deciding games Rocco still went with his Cyber Metric Que Cards that told him to remove hot pitchers to go Lefty/Righty Blah Blah Blah. There has to be a time where a manager uses his eyes to manage a game. Having a Pitcher who is on his game and hitting corners with a low pitch count just HAS to override the cyber metric numbers. Especially when you know your Pen is struggling! Rocco needs to be more of a Manager and stop being a Robot in crucial periods of games!

[Schmoeman5]

The Francona angle is not very good. He's not going to come cheap. And the Twins aren't going to fire a manager under contract for 1 more year and turn around and hire a more expensive one. That would NOT be considered right-sizing.

[MinnesotaTwins26]

I think Baldelli is still a good option although it's clear that Rocco's .523 winning percentage is no longer suitable for the young, strong AL Central. I would've liked if we had signed Terry Francona as a new manager except the Reds got to him first.

[Five minute major]

2 hours ago, #3Killer said:

Let’s hope he learns from this years debacle. His lineup “manipulations are motivation destroyers. He needs to combine his statistical approach with a feel for the game and let his players play when they get on a roll. 

I absolutely 100% agree with this.  I have posted this on other threads.  He treats his players like numbers, regardless of how well they perform constantly and consistently favoring analytics.  Baseball does not work that way.  There is no harder thing to do in sports than hit off a MLB pitcher.   Confidence is absolutely crucial and you could tell that this was a major issue of almost all the batters at year end.  Great post.

[Schmoeman5]

22 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Surprise…….watching MLB Central this a.m. & “Thad Levine has left the Twins to pursue other opportunities inside and outside of Baseball……”

That should make some people here smile!!

Levine fell on the sword. Personally I think he was the wrong one to have to do it.

[specialiststeve]

Vocal minority? Most all of the Twins fans that I know are scratching their heads with this one. 

He is calm and steady I will give him that.

He is also Terrible with the pitching staff ... his dependence on the "metrics" and not having a feel for the game is so bad I have to turn off games knowing he is so incompetent. 

He also basically puts a lineup in and sits on his hands for the rest of the game on offense.. again not having a feel for the game or not being "aggressive" with the run game or bunting with guys that have shown the ability in crucial situations... again NOT acceptable. 

2 complete collapses in 3 years .... not learning and not getting better. 

Accountability he asks for from his players but doesn't have the insight to look in the mirror. 

I would say that his lack of managing skills cost this team at least 10 games that I can think of... argh! 

Not good. Terrible decision to bring him back.. 

[old nurse]

What this front office would hire is another person with the same mindset. The only reason to move on from Baldelli would be problems between the position players and Baldelli. 

[Schmoeman5]

23 minutes ago, specialiststeve said:

Vocal minority? Most all of the Twins fans that I know are scratching their heads with this one. 

He is calm and steady I will give him that.

He is also Terrible with the pitching staff ... his dependence on the "metrics" and not having a feel for the game is so bad I have to turn off games knowing he is so incompetent. 

He also basically puts a lineup in and sits on his hands for the rest of the game on offense.. again not having a feel for the game or not being "aggressive" with the run game or bunting with guys that have shown the ability in crucial situations... again NOT acceptable. 

2 complete collapses in 3 years .... not learning and not getting better. 

Accountability he asks for from his players but doesn't have the insight to look in the mirror. 

I would say that his lack of managing skills cost this team at least 10 games that I can think of... argh! 

Not good. Terrible decision to bring him back.. 

I don't even believe he is calm and steady. Several times at the end of the year, there were no post-game Rocco interviews. That's a move that a person who doesn't want to face the fire and answer potentially tough questions. Which never get asked anyhow.

[CRF]

Tito would've looked pretty good wearing red, white, and blue. He would've even looked good in those city connect uni's!

[mrcharlie]

2 hours ago, Old Crow said:

I'm sorry Roco ball is not exciting ball,  I don't believe the game was ment to be played most dingers win.

To me this is the problem.  The Twins are boring under his direction.  Rarely putting pressure on the opposing team and swinging for the fences.  It is uninspiring and lazy.  Many other teams practice a more aggressive and active style that produces wins.  And more wins when it counts...like in August and September.

[gregens]

After watching Rocco manage the Twins for 6 years now it's obvious to me he doesn't have what it takes to lead a team to the kind of success I'd like to see.   I'd like to see the Twins go deep into the playoffs on a frequent basis.  I'm not expecting the Twins to be the best team each year, but I'd like to have confidence that the manager can guide the team to get the most out of their players when things align such as when the team doesn't have major injury problems.

I believe the only way Rocco could lead a team to a world series title is if his roster was head and shoulders above any other team.... that isn't happening with the Twin's organization.

It's way past time to try a different manager.  The current rate of team success is not cutting it, and it's a lot easier to try a different manager than replacing all the players.

 

 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

I agree with your article Mathew. Rocco is Minnesota nice, intelligent, positive, respected by the players, well spoken, and experienced. I'm very glad he is going to manage my favorite team in 2025.

[bean5302]

The best reason is to get a better chance at a higher draft pick...

Baldelli has lost the team, few people like his in game decisions or the theories he steadfastly ties himself down with.

[PatPfund]

I guess I agree keeping Rocco makes sense, but the jury is still out on whether or not it is the right call.

This makes two epic collapses (from 1st place to 14 games out, all after September 2, '22) in three years. The culprit both times was mainly talent-related (3 of our top SPs by games pitched were Bundy, Archer, and Smeltzer; only Smeltzer made it to '23 and that for only 9 games; Celestino was the main CF), but Rocco teams have a disturbing tendency to go belly-up far too often. (Everyone focuses on the last 6 weeks, but this team was AWFUL against good teams all year long. I look at Boston which has its own issues, but Cora's team kept fighting all year. And none of the players felt a need to point out they weren't the White Sox.

One reason the OP doesn't mention, but also makes sense; if the team starts terribly next year, it will be tough for both Falvey and Rocco to hide, and you usually let the new head of baseball operations hire their own manager.

[LA Vikes Fan]

3 hours ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Looking at wins and saying he is a good manager is crazy   , 2019 the players had career years and Baldelli sat back and hardly had to manage for a 100 plus win season  , the playoffs were different  , he managed and it was awful and has been awful since , their game is not exciting  unless they use a juiced ball  ...

win or lose ,   it's how you play the game , and the game isn't exciting  , because Baldelli's technic is not exciting ...

The players have no comfort in an ever changing unstable lineup ...

Expect more of the same next year ..I'm done spending money on the twins , ( twinfest , spring training ,  target field games  and apparel ) ...

 

I don't think this is Very fair. You can't say "ignore his good years because he didn't have to do anything, look only at the down years" any more then you can say "ignore the down years because of injuries, look only at his good years". You have to look at all of the years. The good is that he has a solidly winning record overall, the Twins won 2 division titles so far during his reign, and won one playoff series. I agree with you on at least some of the bad; I think he is too rigid when he platoons, two loyalty to underperforming veterans, and he doesn't use small ball enough. The latter may be the result of the players he has not being able to execute. But if it is the players execution, that's on him and the coaching staff. All of these guys can be taught to move runners over, bunt, etc. and should be. 

The thing that bugs me more than anything is the platooning and his loyalty to underperforming veterans. I said at the beginning of this season that this should be a development year because a playoff spot was within reach without having to win 90 games and this was the year to really develop the young guys before Detroit and Kansas City started getting better. Turns out I was a year late on Detroit and Kansas City, they are already better, but this was the season we needed to find out whether Wallner, Larnach and Julien could hit left-handed pitching well enough to play every day, whether Miranda could play first base, and whether we had a backup centerfielder in St. Paul. instead, a lot of ABs went to veterans who we knew were not going to be part of the future like Kepler, Santana, Margot, and Farmer. Santana actually performed to be fair, but the rest did not. We do know more about the young starting pitching because it was forced on us by injury, but not so much about younger relief pitcher. Now we have to find  out about our younger players abilities in 2025 because the veterans that got in the way of those learning experiences will be gone AND we have to do it in a context where Cleveland looks likely to end and 90 games, and both Kansas City and Detroit look like they might be at that same level. This is no Bueno. It is directly on Falvey and Baldelli.

I'm okay with Rocco returning for another season. I hope he learned something this year and we don't see that same rigid approach in 2025. Frankly, I don't think the Front Office is going to give him any veteran players due to payroll constraints so he won't have a whole lot of choice other than to play and develop the young core. That should have happened this year. It didn't, and that's on Rocco.

[gunnarthor]

4 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Add 2019, also under Baldelli as Manager of the Year, they are 421 - 389. Facts in the big picture w/Baldelli. ……..I don’t love the guy but nobody gets on Rob Thompson when Phillies go in the tank for 6 weeks - hitting coach isn’t blamed when Castellanos goes Ofer a series, in 3 of 4 series, because HE’S expected to come out of it on his own and does. Players play, and Managers give guys an opportunity to succeed in differing situations.

Lewis has to get HIS act together, for example.

My assumption, other than not having a better idea, is that Management kept Rocco to send a message to the players in the entire organization that they won’t be bailed out by placing blame elsewhere……it’s up to them.

I figured four years was more than enough to gauge recent performance of the team.

[LastOnePicked]

"Despite a vocal minority of fans calling for change,"

Ugh. This is a common tactic of dismissal. And my guess is that you have no real idea as to which side on this issue is the minority, unless you've done some sophisticated polling.

"Some fans may want fiery speeches or emotional outbursts."

Let's put this old strawman to rest. Those of us who against keeping Rocco are NOT asking for thrown chairs and tipped tables. Were asking for fundamentally sound baseball and an ability to elevate the play of the roster. Sometimes that involves confrontation. Not aggression, not buffoonery ... timely and direct confrontation. 

"The most successful franchises, in any sport, don’t constantly shuffle their leadership. Stability fosters success."

First, please don't tell me you think the Twins are one of the "most successful franchises" - that's just patently false. Also, I think you have it backwards. Success more often fosters stability. Time alone won't simply turn a poor coaching staff into a great staff. And failure rewarded with stability leads to stagnation and incompetence.

"we also can’t forget the 12-game winning streak they posted earlier this year"

Since we're on the subject of not forgetting, 2022's epic collapse is worth remembering. It might also be good to remember that the regular season records you boasted about were built off of a fairly weak AL Central. And Rocco's postseason record still isn't something to write home about.

"2025 will be a critical year for Baldelli. He’s earned another chance, but if the team falters again, it will be tough to justify keeping him on."

Okay, is 2025 the new goalpost? Just so we don't have to repeat ourselves next offseason, what does "falters" mean?

Look, if you love Rocco, just say you love Rocco. That's fine. He seems like a great human being. I'd love to have Rocco as a neighbor. I just can no longer stand having him as the Twins manager. I'm tired of watching this team falter, flail and fade away in crucial stretches and big games. I'm tired of our rookies looking disoriented and unprepared to play major league baseball. Rocco has had decent rosters and decent payroll support. Whatever the "it" factor is that makes a great manager, Rocco doesn't have it. And we've had more than enough time now to judge this fairly.

 

 

 

[David Maro]

With Levine leaving it is probably more in line with a rat leaving a sinking ship.

With Francona going with the Reds you will probably see Carl Willis make the move as well once Cleveland is eliminated.That would be a move that would improve their pitching staff.

[JD-TWINS]

4 hours ago, USAFChief said:

This defense of Rocco is as poorly written as Rocco's management.

"Vocal minority?"

"It became obvious meaningful change was needed .... would Rocco be the scapegoat"? How would needed meaningful change be a scapegoat?

His calm demeanor is "exactly what's needed for a long season"...which has ended in utter collapse twice in three seasons? And which has sputtered to a weak postseason when he did manage to get there?

 

Dedend Rocco, sure. Have at it.

But this collection of unsupported claims, flat out embellishments and platitudes?

LOL worthy. 

2024 was a debacle - lots of blame to be spread around - lots of point of views.

2022…….can’t expect to win games with Nick Gordon being a Top performer in the line-up down the stretch. Jake Cave - Celestino in the OF every day……..he’s not David Copperfield. Sandy Leon catching……..Buxton out 8/23 for balance of season……..Kyle Garlick & Billy Hamilton on roster for OF August/September. Jorge Lopez on the mound with a big grin while he’s getting lit up (nuts) …….Joe Smith. Can’t win with no players…….i.e. Casey Stengel w/Mets.