Final: Astros 13, Twins 12: Miranda Makes History, but Twins Comeback Comes Up Short

[tony&rodney]

Those who attended the game must have enjoyed all of the offense.

I thought that 83-85 wins would be enough to win the ALC back in March. The Twins were seen (widely) as a 83-87 win team before the season. At this time the Twins are well ahead of expectations, but it now looks like there may be a need to win around 90 games.

It is a long season and I hope those who get frustrated with the team make it to September because the season should close with an exciting final couple of weeks. 

Falvey may need to find a relief pitcher or two.

[Brandon]

40 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

?

When he was PH for, Hader wasn't even warming up, much less in the game.

I didn’t watch the game so substitute Hader for specialized reliever.  

[LambchoP]

We really need Pablo to start figuring things out, we need him in top form for our series' against the Guardians. I hate to keep ripping on Rocco but man, WHY send Winder out for that second inning? Even I knew he looked cooked. And even worse, you pinch hit for a guy who has TEN STRAIGHT HITS? Said he wanted to get him off his feet...he was DH'ing today! Really wish we had a real manager with some common sense.

[roger]

Read something interesting in the Strib related to pinch hitting for Miranda.

First, Rocco was managing as if the game was lost thru much of the game.  Otherwise he would have had a quicker hook for Pablo in the 6th and would not have brought Winder out for a second inning.  After Twins pitchers hit three Houston batters, Rocci likely envisioned Miranda coming to the plate and getting blasted by a hard inside fastball.  With him thinking the game was lost, i can understand getting Martin an at bat.  The pitching decisions aren't understandable.

[David Maro]

It is time for everyone to realize Lopez is not a #1.He also needs to start working on pitching.He has spent time on Wheel of Fortune and Homerun vests and Hats as well as Pablo Day.Game after game he has a blow up inning as happened again tonight.

Miranda kept the Twins in the game tonight with hit after hit.Lee followed with good at bats.Poor manager choices kept putting the game out of reach.

[tony&rodney]

Just me maybe, but I am not understanding the emphasis on Baldelli's role. Yes, he is the manager. I would pull Miranda after my pitchers had hit several batters in a blowout game. As far as the choice to use Winder, it might be useful to look at the options provided by upper management.

The Twins are doing pretty good this year and have some ability to improve in a couple of areas.

[Shaitan]

Weird place to put an ad for a place in Blaine.

[mnfireman]

Down 8 in the bottom of the 9th is a very acceptable time to PH, even for a guy with 10 straight hits. And TD is bent out of shape because the PH (Martin) got a hit!!

I'm more upset that Lopez went out for the 6th. Bring Alcala in to start the 6th with a 4-3 lead and it might be a different game, perhaps even a W for the good guys. 

Putting Winder in what was  a 2 run game was more or less throwing in the towel, giving him a second inning was plain irresponsible. 

As for how much momentum scoring 7 runs in the bottom of the 9th may give the team, remember, Houston scored 10 runs from the 6th inning on. The bigger take-away from the 9th may be that Correa took Hader deep in a game he shouldn't have been pitching in.

[Patzky]

4 minutes ago, mnfireman said:

Down 8 in the bottom of the 9th is a very acceptable time to PH, even for a guy with 10 straight hits. And TD is bent out of shape because the PH (Martin) got a hit!!

I'm more upset that Lopez went out for the 6th. Bring Alcala in to start the 6th with a 4-3 lead and it might be a different game, perhaps even a W for the good guys. 

Putting Winder in what was  a 2 run game was more or less throwing in the towel, giving him a second inning was plain irresponsible. 

As for how much momentum scoring 7 runs in the bottom of the 9th may give the team, remember, Houston scored 10 runs from the 6th inning on. The bigger take-away from the 9th may be that Correa took Hader deep in a game he shouldn't have been pitching in.

The bullpen is in great shape today (better if they went ahead and replaced Winder w Castillo) because of last night's usage. Sure a win would have been better! Didn't see a close game coming when we were down that much..

[USAFChief]

25 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Just me maybe, but I am not understanding the emphasis on Baldelli's role... As far as the choice to use Winder, it might be useful to look at the options provided by upper management.

 

Winder was, by definition, the 8th best option provided by management. With at least 6 of the better ones rested and available.

And "8th best" is generous, in that Winder is actually lower than that on the actual bullpen depth chart. He was 8th of those available yesterday to Baldelli. Why would he be the 2nd reliever called on in a 2 run game? For multiple innings, no less, after coughing up a run in his first inning?

If you won't question THAT, I submit you're not objective. 

 

 

[MMMordabito]

Rocco and Margot need to go.

[D.C Twins]

More. Bullpen. Arms. At. Trade. Deadline.....

[tony&rodney]

Criticism is not a bad thing and I would submit that analysis and criticism is occasionally warranted. 

It seems like these players (I'll skip pitchers for brevity) have been flooded with calls for DFA: Farmer and Margot. Santana was an early recipient but his play has calmed the storm on him for now. Guys not seen as worthy of an MLB job on many posts: Kirilloff, Julien, & Martin. Vazquez = yikes. Buxton and Correa have quieted their critics a bit in the last five weeks. Larnach and Jeffers have generally received the benefit of doubt. Lee and Lewis are saviors. Kepler get pilloried on a routine basis. Miranda has been a machine and I saw a call to trade him. Castro seems under-appreciated given his play.

The Twins are on a 91 win pace and in a good position at this time. I'm always interested in sound criticism but when your team is exceeding expectations Is it unreasonable to expect that most of the comments are positive in nature?

[JD-TWINS]

3 hours ago, USAFChief said:

They wouldn't BE behind 7 without Winder's contributions. 

Why TF was he the 2nd reliever called on in a winnable game, with a rested pen? By definition he's the 8th best reliever, and that's generous. 

You have no crystal ball……Houston’s won 12 of 14 coming in……who’s to say Sands doesn’t get lit up? You want Jax in the game down 2 in the 6th?? How about Caleb - he’s been nothing but stellar - right? You don’t burn guys up that are leverage arms when down 2 in the middle of the game. He can only pitch guys that are in the Pen - it’s not fantasy baseball.

It’s easy to bitch about the manager after one sees results - it’s easy to disagree with a point of view and then offer no alternative thought or plan!

Show us the progression of arms you would parade out on the first night of a 3 game series, down 2 to start the 7th. Alcala was already used. Jax & Duran aren’t coming in then. You got 5 guys - who’s throwing the 7th - 8th - 9th? I’ll let you know how you did in Monday morning.

[Patzky]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

Winder was, by definition, the 8th best option provided by management. With at least 6 of the better ones rested and available.

And "8th best" is generous, in that Winder is actually lower than that on the actual bullpen depth chart. He was 8th of those available yesterday to Baldelli. Why would he be the 2nd reliever called on in a 2 run game? For multiple innings, no less, after coughing up a run in his first inning?

If you won't question THAT, I submit you're not objective. 

 

 

Winder was maybe designed to be a rent-a-wreck for the weekend before a starter for Monday was provided. 

He wrecked early.

[Cornholio]

While I can understand wanting to get Miranda out before he gets plunked, commenting about it will probably only get him plunked early today. Also, I cannot find any record of a hitter having back-to-back 5 hit games. He could have been the first.

[h2oface]

5 hours ago, CRF said:

I thought maybe...just maybe...Pablo might have figured some stuff out after his last two starts. Last night was more proof that he hasn't. This is looking more and more like kind of a lost season for him. Great comeback in the 9th, but it was too much of a mountain. Get them today with Ryan on the hill. 

Here’s hoping. This team notoriously doesn’t get runs for Ryan. No runs, and when he leaves with the small leads after 6-7 innings, the bullpen “deGrom’s” him and blows the lead.  
 

But there is always that hope…..

[Whitey333]

It's always interestin̈g to me to listen to the pro Rocco group.  They can't take any criticism of this "great" manager.  The Twins are doing OK.  I agree with that and am happy about it.  But I'm of the belief they should have a better record if we actually had a game manager.  In my opinion he does a poor job during g the game. Making and not making prudent pitching decisions is important.  Leaving Winder and Funderburk in way too long in a two run game at the time shows he had given up.  Also the Twins do a great job of beating up on poorer teams.  Their record is 17-26 against teams with winning records.  Winder and Funderburk shouldn't even be on the team.  I just wish Rocco would mix in some baseball sense with all the analytics.  After all he keeps pinch hitting Margo for guys like Larnach.  Margo is 0  for 20 pinch hitting .  Besides how do you know  the lefties can't hit lefties if you never let them do it?

 

[h2oface]

3 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Just me maybe, but I am not understanding the emphasis on Baldelli's role. Yes, he is the manager. I would pull Miranda after my pitchers had hit several batters in a blowout game. As far as the choice to use Winder, it might be useful to look at the options provided by upper management.

The Twins are doing pretty good this year and have some ability to improve in a couple of areas.

Wow. You think? No pitcher in the history of the game has ever purposely tried to hit the batter! Just ask them! Never. That would be totally unsportsmanlike and cowardly. 

[Bamboo Bat]

8 minutes ago, Whitey333 said:

But I'm of the belief they should have a better record if we actually had a game manager.  In my opinion he does a poor job during g the game. Making and not making prudent pitching decisions is important.  Leaving Winder and Funderburk in way too long in a two run game at the time shows he had given up.  

 

Agree 100%. I was at the game last night & they ought to take the "L" off of Lopez' record & hang it around Rocco's neck. So many poor decisions, again. Without looking in detail, I suspect Rocco getting out-managed (which ain't hard) costs the team at least 5 wins a season. This was one of them. 

[JD-TWINS]

I keep seeing how Baldelli mismanaged the staff last night……maybe 40% or more of the posts are behind this thinking.

Lopez sucked and got the Team in a hole….not the Manager.

Winder - Sands - Thielbar - Funderburk are 50% of his choices in the Pen. He doesn’t run the Club - probably has some input but he Manages the guys he has to manage.

Alcala was used in the 6th because Lopez couldn’t get an out……..everyone here complains if Alcala is EVER being used more than 1 inning! He was done.

Can’t throw Staumont - Jax - Duran down 2 starting the 7th.

So with the options he had, he chose Winder & he underperformed. Absolutely nothing that couldn’t have happened with Sands. Winder was specifically brought up to take a look at and get some feel for where he’s at right now AND to give some innings in lower leverage situations.

Thielbar could have given up a 3 run homer just as well as Funderburk. Caleb hasn’t been automatic in his role by any means.

The Astros are HOT & Teams lose 45% of their games in a 90 win campaign…..did ANYONE see the Team scoring 4-7 more runs entering the top of the 7th?

………………..

TWINS are up 5-0 at the end of the 2nd inning on Saturday - why the hell isn’t the Astros Manager taking the pitcher out?!?!???? It’s 162 games season and there are only so many options, that’s why.

[DJL44]

3 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Can’t throw Staumont - Jax - Duran down 2 starting the 7th.

Why can't you use Staumont in the 7th? That's a great place to use Staumont.

[JD-TWINS]

40 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

41 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Why can't you use Staumont in the 7th? That's a great place to use Staumont.

If you throw Staumont when trailing Friday who throws Sunday if you are up in the 6th or 7th?

[USAFChief]

4 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

 

Winder - Sands - Thielbar - Funderburk are 50% of his choices in the Pen. 

No, they're not.

For this weekend they're 4/9 of his available choices.

And Winder is number 9.

[USAFChief]

29 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

If you throw Staumont when trailing Friday who throws Sunday if you are up in the 6th or 7th?

First of all, no manager in baseball is managing Sunday's pen on a Friday night in the middle innings of a two run game. 

Secondly, I'd guess only Alcala and Sands are off limits Sunday. And HAD Staumont thrown an inning Friday night, that's not necessarily reason to think he can't pitch again Sunday. Believe it or not, MLB relievers have, on occasion, thrown on 2 out of 3 days. 

Which is an example of why nobody is managing Sunday's bullpen on a Friday night. 

[jkcarew]

15 hours ago, thelanges5 said:

Saw this in a Gleeman tweet. Have some work to do on the pitching side of the house. 
 

Pitching staff through 88 games.

Last year — 329 runs allowed (#1 in MLB) This year — 391 runs allowed (#20 in MLB)

Think how bad it would be if we didn’t have the Best Bullpen in Baseball!

[Riverbrian]

21 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

He’s just trying to get them a rep to be ready for when it may count later in the weekend.

Generally, if the Twins don’t inexplicably score 7 runs in the 9th there’s no angst for pinch hitters - Winder and Funderburk eating some innings & not pitching well while behind - etc.

Lopez had a 2.00 WHIP through 5 innings and gave up 6 earned. That’s the root of the problem, IMO. The managing criticism after that is pretty subjective based on hindsight. Need to burn all the Pablo Day jerseys as it surely seems to be in his head or they’re just bad luck???

”On their feet” is just a quick comment in the moment……,”we were out of it so I thought I’d get a couple other guys AB’s” isn’t the right thing to say either in a competition.

My comment wasn't a manager criticism per se. It was an 8 run deficit. All managers do it... it's time to put in the scrubs.

My problem is having scrubs... who the manager just identified by garbage time play. 

The quote was bull. I agree with you that Rocco can't say the truth... which was... we were out of it so I'm putting in the scrubs. 

And... I'm saying... if you have scrubs that you need to get 1 AB in a blow out. Get them off the roster.

As good as the offense is doing in comparison with other teams around the league. We still have some guys who have been average to below average that could still use some pushing.

Kepler and Larnach have been OK. Yet they have not been so good that they have to be in the lineup every day. They haven't been so good that we can just sit back and say... it's cool. They haven't been so good that they shouldn't be challenged for playing time. 

They could use players pushing them... not players who Rocco has to get 1 AB when it safe to do so. 

Farmer and Martin are not pushing anyone... or allowed to push anyone... they need to be fed a single AB when it's safe... Rocco identified them by sending them out in garbage time... so get them off the roster. 

 

[dxpavelka]

On 7/6/2024 at 4:33 AM, h2oface said:

Baffling. The guy is so hot, in the grove, and it would be a super low pressure at bat because of the 13-5 score. As low as it could be when it involves how each at bat now is pressure filled because of the streak/record. But to pinch hit? Because the 26 year old athlete, that is sitting down half the game on the bench between innings, could be ……tired? (correction: most of the game, as Miranda was DH) exhausted? really Baldelli? the great cooler? Because anything could happen before his next at bat...... like a rain out. Food poisoning. whatever. The time and momentum was then. Baldelli tries the "poor guys are tired" crap to spin it. 

"Those guys, they play virtually every day and they’re doing a good job,” Baldelli said. “In an eight-run game, they’ve been on their feet for a while. No reason not to get them off."  

Shame on the manager. You ask Miranda if he wants to hit, and listen to him. You don't get him off his feet because he has10 consecutive plate appearances with a hit !!!!!! And he is ready to set a record!!!!! Baldelli is so so so ......  the words that are not allowed to type here. 

Love Rocco but sometimes ya gotta go old school and ride the hot hand.

[dxpavelka]

On 7/6/2024 at 8:09 AM, Brandon said:

I think the thought process is he will have a better shot at extending his streak against a starting pitcher tomorrow after he gets some rest after the game vs hitting against Hader who we didn’t know was going to implode 

You wanna be the best, beat the best.

[dxpavelka]

On 7/5/2024 at 10:59 PM, Peter said:

Hate hate hate the one run losses😡🤬🤮💩👎no more one run games rest of season!!! 

Just to clarify, would you prefer two or three or five run losses?