Is It Time for the Twins to Shuffle the Coaching Staff?

[Blyleven2011]

It's pathetic pitiful piss poor baseball  ...

I for one think the preparation in spring  training is not advantageous for success ...

Are the players careers in jeopardy  because of our major league philosophy of all or nothing , I would say yes , I am a player and a fan of yesteryear , results matters , results get you voted to the Allstar games , results win awards , results might win you a hall of fame selection ... don't any of today's players have the desire  for these accolades  ...

Results of batting average , rbis  , stealing bases  , scoring runs and OPS  earn respect from other teams players and fans  ,  with the current  coaching staff coaching our players , they just seem to be going through the motions and the motions are unwatchable baseball games  ...

It's time for the players to take back the way the game is supposed to be played and win some ball games , every small details matters .... 

In the last series against Baltimore  , Baltimore batters swung at good pitches and lay off the bad pitches ....

the the twins batters continue to swIng at bad pitches  and let the good pitches  go by  ....

Discipline  ....

[FilthyMogwai]

lol, is this an honest-to-God question? Followed by a TLDR article? 

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

I actually don't have a clue what Levine actually does. A real "What would you say.... you do here???" Office Space, Tom Smykowski situation. Evidently, whatever Levine does, it's not particularly impressive as Boston didn't even want to talk to him for a second round of interviews.

It's frustrating that we don't have a clear understanding of job delineation for the front office, but as it is, I presume Falvey is the architect of the organization as he was the assistant director of baseball operations in Cleveland. I'm guessing he's building the infrastructure. So then I'd guess Levine is largely in charge of player management as he was the assistant GM with the Rangers.

I really dislike the idea that those two are some conjoined monster that do the same things and for a couple years now I've been in favor of replacing Levine to see what if anything changes. I'd test it out for a couple years and if they still keep stocking the roster with the same kind of players, that's when I'd replace Falvey as well.

[D.C Twins]

Um...yeah... better than doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results..... because that would be.....oh what's the best word for that again....

[chpettit19]

36 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Ignoring the "coaches/managers don't matter" which os lunacy ...

The issue to me seems execution of the offensive philoosophy.

A new set of  coaches, even implementing the same philosophy, may be better at it. Actually...successful. 

 

My read on the people most strongly calling for heads to roll is that they don't believe in the philosophy. So I was really talking to those people. If their hope is that firing Popkins leads to a Cleveland style contact team coming to a Target Field near them they're going to be disappointed.

I think the issue is that many of the Twins hitters aren't very good hitters. I don't think they're this bad, but I don't think they're near as good as many claimed them to be. The Twins have 3 hitting coaches. Are 3 new ones really going to make a huge difference? I guess it's possible, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[MABB1959]

This team or Rocco needs to learn how to manufacture runs.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

Unless this season completely bottoms out, and by that, I mean 90+ losses, I would be surprised if there's a major move with the FO or with Rocco. Their hands were already tied thanks to Joe P.'s cheapskate ways and now they have the added excuse of injuries to Lewis and Correa. A different franchise with different expectations, then yeah, seats would be getting warm right now. But, I don't think the Pohlad's care enough about winning to make sweeping changes.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

These next 16 games loom large. Presuming that Correa, Duran and Kepler return during that stretch and looking at the opponents, the Twins could position themselves to be at or slightly over .500 as the calendar turns to May and that's pretty much where they lived last year until the end of August when they got hot. How will Cleveland, Kansas City and Detroit play - and will a .500 Twins' team be within striking distance?

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

6 minutes ago, MABB1959 said:

This team or Rocco needs to learn how to manufacture runs.

This is an interesting point. I think the Twins have like 3 stolen bases on the season and Farmer has 2 of them! Buxton not running and Castro never being on base - certainly throws a wrench into small ball but the Twins rarely seem to do things to jumpstart the offense. Yesterday, they did send Margot and he with Watkins helped they were aggressive in pushing a run across. Need more of that. On the flip side, hard to manufacture runs when you're striking out 15 times a game and don't have guys on base.

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

It's frustrating that we don't have a clear understanding of job delineation for the front office, but as it is, I presume Falvey is the architect of the organization as he was the assistant director of baseball operations in Cleveland. I'm guessing he's building the infrastructure. So then I'd guess Levine is largely in charge of player management as he was the assistant GM with the Rangers.

I really dislike the idea that those two are some conjoined monster that do the same things and for a couple years now I've been in favor of replacing Levine to see what if anything changes. I'd test it out for a couple years and if they still keep stocking the roster with the same kind of players, that's when I'd replace Falvey as well.

I think it's a triangle of power with Falvey, Levine, and Rocco all making MLB roster decisions together. Levine appears to do most of the contract negotiating based on the stories I've seen, but I'd bet there isn't a player brought in here that isn't signed off on by all 3 of those guys.

[nicksaviking]

3 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I think it's a triangle of power with Falvey, Levine, and Rocco all making MLB roster decisions together. Levine appears to do most of the contract negotiating based on the stories I've seen, but I'd bet there isn't a player brought in here that isn't signed off on by all 3 of those guys.

They might sign off on the players, but they don't all find them, decide their value and sniff out the agents to get a feel for their demands. Somebody identifies players, gathers data on them and presents them to the others. I'm sure that's not Baldelli outside of him saying something like, 'Hey, what about so-and-so'. That's also not Falvey's background, it would seem like he'd be the one saying, 'We need a guy who does this and this, but not that'. Though surely he has much more input and the final say (second final say after Joe Pohlad). This has basically been the GM's job since time immortal. There's clearly way more collaboration now, but I'd still guess if one of these guys did most of the legwork in this area, it would be Levine. I doubt Levine would still be here if he's doing the exact same thing as his boss but getting paid less.

But it's an opaque situation to us, so that's just my math.

[LastOnePicked]

2 hours ago, USAFChief said:

A new set of  coaches, even implementing the same philosophy, may be better at it. Actually...successful. 

Exactly this. Philosophy and execution are two very different things. Popkins has proven to be a weak spot in the coaching staff. The Twins lose nothing from letting him go. If anything, the players may appreciate a sign from the executives that failure of this magnitude isn't going to be tolerated.

But then again, these are the Twins. 

[Woof Bronzer]

There's a reason Falvey hires young, hungry, inexperienced guys like Popkins and Baldelli:  they're willing to carry out his philosophy uncritically, and they don't have a track record of success that would give them the equity or expertise to push back or disagree.  If Popkins or Rocco are fired they'll get replaced by clones.  For me, as long as this organization is unfailingly committed to a deeply flawed philosophy built upon severe misunderstandings of statistics and the game of baseball itself, nothing will change.  

[Karbo]

3 hours ago, terrydactyls said:

If there is a team philosophy of home run or nothing,  why haven't the "exceptions" you noted above been traded for players that fit the mold?  I think the problem is that the Twins have a team comprised of mostly boneheads that believe the old adage that homeruns get the chicks.

And following up on that, I have a serious question.  Is it the front office's job to create a philosophy for the team?  Or is their job to find players that fit the philosophy of the coaching staff?  The front offices in other sports seem to draft/trade for players that fit the coaching philosophy.  Why is baseball so different?  Or is it?  The blame the front office attitude at TD may be incorrect (about this subject, not in general).

I think its the FO who hires the manager that fits the philosophy they establish.

[Karbo]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

I think it's a triangle of power with Falvey, Levine, and Rocco all making MLB roster decisions together. Levine appears to do most of the contract negotiating based on the stories I've seen, but I'd bet there isn't a player brought in here that isn't signed off on by all 3 of those guys.

IMO Falvey is the big dog, with Lavine doing a lot of the scouting and advises, Rocco just handles the clubhouse

[sweetmusicviola16]

Maybe it is Falvey that needs to be called on the carpet. He dumped Polanco for a prospect. He traded for a broken SP in DeSclaffani. His big sign is Carlos Santana. He brought in a unperforming Margot. I get it.They were told to cut payroll. But the off season moves were poor ones. A division winning team was made poorer by the FO.

[Jocko87]

3 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

I think it's a triangle of power with Falvey, Levine, and Rocco all making MLB roster decisions together. Levine appears to do most of the contract negotiating based on the stories I've seen, but I'd bet there isn't a player brought in here that isn't signed off on by all 3 of those guys.

I think you are probably correct that they all are on board with the moves they make as they seem to be a very cohesive unit but the hierarchy and roles are pretty distinct. Just from interviews with Rocco we know he's not involved in free agents until very late in the game but I'm sure they've talked at least in general prior to that.

Falvey owns the trump card though, it doesn't matter how much Rocco and Levine are on board if he's not. Conversely, if Rocco or Levine have reservations he's probably not going to force something through. It would be out of character from what I can tell and not a great idea in general.

[Doctor Gast]

5 hours ago, terrydactyls said:

If there is a team philosophy of home run or nothing,  why haven't the "exceptions" you noted above been traded for players that fit the mold?  I think the problem is that the Twins have a team comprised of mostly boneheads that believe the old adage that homeruns get the chicks.

And following up on that, I have a serious question.  Is it the front office's job to create a philosophy for the team?  Or is their job to find players that fit the philosophy of the coaching staff?  The front offices in other sports seem to draft/trade for players that fit the coaching philosophy.  Why is baseball so different?  Or is it?  The blame the front office attitude at TD may be incorrect (about this subject, not in general).

This FO sets the philosophy & they hire coaches that they expect to follow through these philosophies. It's well known that when the Twins draft 1st round (except for a non brainer athletic prospect available Lewis, Lee or Jenkins) they usually draft unathletic big bat college player that fits into their philosophy, They also couldn't help themselves to throw money away at Gallo that fits perfect into this philosophy even though they had so many of this LH- cOF, 1B/ DH already.

The reason that they still hold unto the other players that don't fit into their philosophy (except Polanco) is because they need them to bail the team out so they can give credit to their "all or nothing" approach. They signed mediocre contact hitters Santana & Margot to help curb the SO average, while letting their players go wild. that hasn't worked out so well.

[KnoblauchWasFramed]

"Rocco Baldelli, and he’s largely been a success story in terms of communication and results"  

Actually putting those words into writing with your whole chest is STRAIGHT WILD.  "The Spreadsheet" has been the Twins manager for 4 full seasons and one COVID season before 2024.  The team won the division 3 of those years - the Bomba Squad 2019, COVID 2020, and last season.  His overall record is 381-344 (.526) and he is 3-8 in the playoffs.

But remember, the AL Central has historically been the weakest and softest division in baseball the last several years, or so we are constantly told every year.  And yet, with that being the standard set in this division, he still constantly runs an under performing team that is all or nothing when it comes to hitting.  Home Run swing or strike out.  The team doesn't bunt, the team doesn't steal bases, the team doesn't do any form of basic "small ball" under Rocco.  Which is what quality teams and mangers do when the home runs aren't showing up.  They find other ways to produce and manufacture runs.  But Rocco's Spreadsheet doesn't allow for those kinds of moves, and thus, he won't allow himself to get beyond his analytics and Sabermetrics.  He has NEVER had any instincts and ZERO ability to make changes on the fly.  

This is the Dennis Green scenario with the Vikings all over again.  We keep around a guy who made the playoffs more times than not.... but he had no heart and no drive to take chances.  And always collapsed when the pressure was on but we kept him around because he made the playoffs.  He failed consistently in the playoffs, but we convinced ourselves that it was better to make the playoffs and lose horribly then to not make them at all.

And this is where we are with the Twins.  Yes, the biggest problem with this team is the owners and their lack on commitment to put a winning product on the field that can move on to the next level(s).  But Rocco is a very close second as has consistently failed just as much with his refusal to change his thinking and logic which is, again, always based on The Spreadsheet.  The FO is right there at third with allowing him to continue to run the team the same way he did in 2019.

Regime change should always start at the top, but the owners aren't going anywhere, and I doubt they fire the FO because they fall in line with the self imposed budget restraints.  So it needs to be Rocco and the hitting coach that have to be sacrificed because this isn't working this year, and it really didn't work great since 2019 either.  

 

[JD-TWINS]

I do not understand the “let’s fire the F.O.” nor the “coaching staff needs to go” mentality.

One writer says, Kirilloff, Lewis & Martin are pure hitters and don’t pay attention to the coaching. Jeffers & Miranda & Julien have modified their approach to more contact.

If the 6 guys above are on the same team as the 7-8 other guys that haven’t hit. I don’t get how the F.O. or the hitting coach are at fault? The players need to hit the ball - not Falvey & not Popkins. Same F.O. & hitting coach as last year and in early July they took off and looked better than good the rest of the way.

Lewis - Kepler - Wallner have contributed nearly zero. Not the batting coach nor the F.O.’s fault.

10 days ago Jeffers sucked and was a regressing mess - now, on his own with no poisonous coaching, he’s fixed himself. Seriously?

Guys get hurt - some are washed (Santana & Vazquez possibly) - guys start slow…….it’s baseball. Bailey Ober got absolutely rocked in his Game 1 throwing 1 1/3 innings and since has given up 1 run & 6 hits over 11 innings……did he get coached up in his four days off?

6-11 is no fun. 4 or 5 wins in the 7 game home-stand and things look better. If they can reach .500 by end of May & have everyone back & healthy, they’re just fine. They were 58-57 last year in the middle of August.

SWR & Festa & Duran to the rescue in May!!

[Riverbrian]

The last time (maybe the only time) that I have ever called for someone's head was Terry Ryan. Out of respect... I still suggested that we build a statue in his honor but yeah... I was ready for a change with Ryan. 

The reason was development. We went through a long stretch of no development, a roster full of players with very little trade value, if we wanted to tear it down and rebuild, players that played every day that no other clubs had any interest in once they reached free agency. blown high draft picks due to consistent losing seasons. It took me awhile to get there but I think it's the only time that I've called for the head of anyone that I have never seen what they do every day or met in person. 

If I ever reached the point where I feel that someone has to go... I'm going straight to the top. I'm not messing around with a hitting coach. I'm looking at the people who hire the people.  

If I ever reach the point where I feel that Falvey has to go. It will be for the same reasons... no development. a roster full of players with very little trade value, players that play every day that no other clubs have any interest in when they reach free agency, blown high draft picks due to consistent losing seasons. 

Yes, I have criticisms with what is happening. I'm worried that the platooning taking place is not going to develop players like we need them to be developed, I'm worried that sub-par cheap veterans on expiring contracts like Santana and Bundy are going to get in the way of development and cause L's in the L column but I'm not there yet mainly because I'm seeing young talent bubbling up, I'm seeing trade value increase, I'm seeing players hitting the free agent market and picking up multi year deals, I've seeing improvement in draft pick success and I'm not seeing consistent losing seasons.  

Every fan base has a large core of people passionately calling for the firing of the coach or the water boys. 

I have no plans to be one of those people.  

[stringer bell]

17 games is less than 11% of the season. Just about every team will have a stretch where they lose 11 of 17 games. That said, if the Twins are having their worst stretch of baseball, they've used up most of the slack they have in a quest to have postseason success.

The hitting has been abominable, there is no other way to describe it. If I'm placing blame, it is the players that are the biggest problem and the front office has compiled the roster. I think it is kind of a "Moneyball reimagined" with an emphasis on pulling balls into the seats above athleticism and contact (in hitting). The theory that hitting with power is undervalued somehow doesn't really fit. I'd like to see more players that can win games with their gloves, legs and bats. 

It also doesn't make sense to me to have not one, not two, but three batting coaches. Too many voices IMHO. Perhaps send one to the minors or something. 

Finally, let's see what happens in the next 15-20 games. There are guys with track records that say they should be much better. It would figure that there would be some regression to the mean. 

[Parfigliano]

7 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

I think fair or not to the current manager, a change often is the kick in the pants the players need. However, Baldelli was extended through the 2025 season, and after this past offseason, I don't see Joe Pohald willingly pay two managers.

I'm happy replacing Levine too. I really don't care for his roster decisions and low ceiling free agent choices.

I also assume this hitting method of taking two strikes before swinging is more on the organization than the hitting coach, but possibly it was the hitting coach's idea. It didn't show up until they hired Popkins; he may have sold the team on it. If it's a chicken or the egg scenario, I'm all for cracking the egg if for no other reason than to see what spills out of it.

His FA choices stink.  Margot, Santana, DeScalf horrible.

[nicksaviking]

2 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

His FA choices stink.  Margot, Santana, DeScalf horrible.

For sure. Add Vazquez, Gallo, Taylor, Farmer, Bundy, Archer, Simmons, Shoemaker, Happ, Colombe, Robles, Jason Castro, Marwin Gonzalez and Martin Perez to the list and there's a clear through-line going through these aging, hope-and-a-prayer kind of players. So if the arrow can be drawn to ONE person (Levine) than there is a really, really simple path to getting out from under this same decision every year.

I think it's him, but maybe it's not. In any case, this nonsense needs to stop and I'd start by trying a new GM to see if it fixes this philosophy that doesn't at all mesh with developing cheap young talent.

[KirbyDome89]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

The last time (maybe the only time) that I have ever called for someone's head was Terry Ryan. Out of respect... I still suggested that we build a statue in his honor but yeah... I was ready for a change with Ryan. 

The reason was development. We went through a long stretch of no development, a roster full of players with very little trade value, if we wanted to tear it down and rebuild, players that played every day that no other clubs had any interest in once they reached free agency. blown high draft picks due to consistent losing seasons. It took me awhile to get there but I think it's the only time that I've called for the head of anyone that I have never seen what they do every day or met in person. 

If I ever reached the point where I feel that someone has to go... I'm going straight to the top. I'm not messing around with a hitting coach. I'm looking at the people who hire the people.  

If I ever reach the point where I feel that Falvey has to go. It will be for the same reasons... no development. a roster full of players with very little trade value, players that play every day that no other clubs have any interest in when they reach free agency, blown high draft picks due to consistent losing seasons. 

Yes, I have criticisms with what is happening. I'm worried that the platooning taking place is not going to develop players like we need them to be developed, I'm worried that sub-par cheap veterans on expiring contracts like Santana and Bundy are going to get in the way of development and cause L's in the L column but I'm not there yet mainly because I'm seeing young talent bubbling up, I'm seeing trade value increase, I'm seeing players hitting the free agent market and picking up multi year deals, I've seeing improvement in draft pick success and I'm not seeing consistent losing seasons.  

Every fan base has a large core of people passionately calling for the firing of the coach or the water boys. 

I have no plans to be one of those people.  

Does it need to reach TSF levels though? If you feel yourself drifting off the road, why not correct in the moment rather than wait for impact?

Some of the reason's you wanted TR out certainly apply to the current FO. 

[Riverbrian]

8 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Does it need to reach TSF levels though? If you feel yourself drifting off the road, why not correct in the moment rather than wait for impact?

Some of the reason's you wanted TR out certainly apply to the current FO. 

Yeah it does.

If the team fails to develop players...  that is the only way I'd get to that point. If they don't develop we will get to TSF levels (I don't know what TSF Means), 😁 

Every team drifts. Corrections are momentary until another correction is necessary. Every team is an operation designed to play competitive baseball. The Margins between Good and Bad is losing 40% or losing 60% over 162 games.

There are Dodger fans who passionately want Freidman gone... Roberts gone. The fans demand for perfection is insatiable. Auto Mechanics who don't have to worry about other auto mechanics trying to knock the wrench out of their hands throw wrenches at players when they strike out on a 98 MPH fastball. 

Baseball has been a part of my life for 50 plus years. I've learned that the baseball gods enjoy a crazy hop. 

[USAFChief]

1 hour ago, Parfigliano said:

His FA choices stink.  Margot, Santana, DeScalf horrible.

Of those three only Santana was signed as a FA.

[USAFChief]

10 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Yeah it does.

If the team fails to develop players...  that is the only way I'd get to that point. If they don't develop we will get to TSF levels (I don't know what TSF Means), 😁 

Every team drifts. Corrections are momentary until another correction is necessary. Every team is an operation designed to play competitive baseball. The Margins between Good and Bad is losing 40% or losing 60% over 162 games.

There are Dodger fans who passionately want Freidman gone... Roberts gone. The fans demand for perfection is insatiable. Auto Mechanics who don't have to worry about other auto mechanics trying to knock the wrench out of their hands throw wrenches at players when they strike out on a 98 MPH fastball. 

Baseball has been a part of my life for 50 plus years. I've learned that the baseball gods enjoy a crazy hop. 

Gonna go out on a limb and say it's "Total System Failure."(tm)

And It's precisely because margins are slim that you really shouldn't wait until you hit the canyon floor after your Dodge Dart drifts off the cliff to make course corrections.

I once heard baseball described as the sport least likely to go according to form in the short term, while at the same time most likely to go according to form over the long term. 

You can't just hope things will get better by themselves. We were having discussions about the Twins hitting coaches last year. I believe they set some sort of strikeout record, no? 

And here we are again. 

 

[KirbyDome89]

8 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Yeah it does.

If the team fails to develop players...  that is the only way I'd get to that point. If they don't develop we will get to TSF levels (I don't know what TSF Means), 😁 

Every team drifts. Corrections are momentary until another correction is necessary. Every team is an operation designed to play competitive baseball. The Margins between Good and Bad is losing 40% or losing 60% over 162 games.

There are Dodger fans who passionately want Freidman gone... Roberts gone. The fans demand for perfection is insatiable. Auto Mechanics who don't have to worry about other auto mechanics trying to knock the wrench out of their hands throw wrenches at players when they strike out on a 98 MPH fastball. 

Baseball has been a part of my life for 50 plus years. I've learned that the baseball gods enjoy a crazy hop. 

"Total System Failure." I just feel like that's an awfully low bar to clear if we're talking about staying employed. 

I think the development is questionable, particularly when it comes to arms. They've had some pretty bad whiffs at the top of the draft. They've certainly had their share of players on the active roster who hit FA (or worse get DFA'd) and draw little to no interest. Value is relative, but there are certainly players on the current 26 man who wouldn't yield a return worth talking about. None of the above are blips over an 8 year period either. 

Sure, the expectation isn't 90 wins year over year. That's unrealistic. I'm asking whether this team is actually correcting (are they capable of doing so) or if they're content to stay their own path that's leading them off the road. You could've convinced me that 2021 was a crazy hop, but 2022 happened, then they played middling baseball through most of 2023 until a division where every other team threw in the towel and the softest schedule in baseball saved their a****, now it's deja vu to start this season. 

[Riverbrian]

38 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Gonna go out on a limb and say it's "Total System Failure."(tm)

And It's precisely because margins are slim that you really shouldn't wait until you hit the canyon floor after your Dodge Dart drifts off the cliff to make course corrections.

I once heard baseball described as the sport least likely to go according to form in the short term, while at the same time most likely to go according to form over the long term. 

You can't just hope things will get better by themselves. We were having discussions about the Twins hitting coaches last year. I believe they set some sort of strikeout record, no? 

And here we are again. 

 

Ahh... I thought it stood for Total Square Feet. But then I realized that feet aren't square. They are more rectangular... At least mine are. 

Here's the thing. Among many things that I don't know... I don't know what level of autonomy that hitting coach has.

Before I send him to the line for food stamps. I'd like to know what his supervisors want him to do. Then I think about those supervisors and figure that I'm focusing on the wrong guy. 

It's the people who hire the people.