Ohtani and Gambling

[nicksaviking]

19 minutes ago, jkcarew said:

Yes. I am cynical on this topic. I’m not ‘against’ gambling on moral or religious grounds. I’ll dabble rarely. But, IMO, it’s insidious, and more dangerous than our current culture acknowledges…and not just for sports, but in general.

The way the professional leagues have fully embraced gambling is, in itself, cynical. Yes, simple greed is in play. But, IMO, it also says, we’re not sure our product is great, and can’t figure out how to make it as great as it could be…but we’re happy to mitigate that via your gambling compulsion.

Yeah, the greed of it is what bothers me the most. Another way for the billionaires to take more money from the most susceptible, with no effort or or any contributory benefit to anyone else, and then the hypocrisy of raking in the cash while acting like nothing bad can happen from this. 

[2wins87]

2 hours ago, Parfigliano said:

More then one of these public positions will definitely reposition before this ends.  Fed offense convictions involving wire fraud can go up to 20yrs/$250k fine. 

Ohtani also has to worry about the real possibilty of deportation with permanent bar on reentry if convicted.

I'm not a lawyer but my impression is that wire fraud would typically only be charged this way when it was a part of more general criminal activity that might be harder to charge and prove, i.e. it's a RICO charge.  Prosecutors have a lot of leeway in which crimes are prosecuted, and I think they would mostly only be interested in charging the people betting or wiring money if they believed that they had information (and weren't already fully forthcoming) on the bookmaker or other associated people who would be the main targets of the investigation.

The criminal system probably does tend to be much less forgiving to those in the U.S. on visas, which could explain an attempt to shield Ohtani from whatever part he knowingly played.  If the original story from the interpreter turns out to be true and Ohtani did technically break the law by wiring money, I still tend to think that most prosecutors wouldn't be that interested in charging someone as prominent as Ohtani for the role of helping a friend, and would probably settle for a fine, but I could be off base there.

It seems like the Feds probably already have the bookie dead to rights.  It could still be revealing to see what kind of charges they end up bringing against him.  A lot of people have pointed to letting an interpreter rack up $4.5 million as evidence that it was actually Ohtani's bets.  It is certainly still a possibility based on what we know, but I'll also submit that it's possible that the bookie wasn't actually a particularly good bookie and maybe that's how this is coming to light.  Did he extend too much credit to Ippei and other clients and get caught somehow trying to collect?  I've heard something to the effect of: "If you're not part of the mob and are able to hire a hitman, you've hired a Fed"

[Rod Carews Birthday]

2 hours ago, jkcarew said:

Yes. I am cynical on this topic. I’m not ‘against’ gambling on moral or religious grounds. I’ll dabble rarely. But, IMO, it’s insidious, and more dangerous than our current culture acknowledges…and not just for sports, but in general.

The way the professional leagues have fully embraced gambling is, in itself, cynical. Yes, simple greed is in play. But, IMO, it also says, we’re not sure our product is great, and can’t figure out how to make it as great as it could be…but we’re happy to mitigate that via your gambling compulsion.

I’m in complete agreement with you, as I really don’t care about gambling in general.  HOWEVER. . . It’s against the rules for any MLB baseball player or connected employee.  Ohtani has earned millions of dollars from baseball and either knows it’s against the rules (in addition to being illegal depending on how it is handled) or most certainly can afford to pay someone to tell him that it is against the rules.  If some poor schlub like me were involved in a situation like this, no one would cover up the situation for me.  However, I expect the handwringing and “aw shucksing” to be turned up to 11 on this from the Dodgers and the league because he’s somebody important, and that is what I think is wrong with this situation.  If he broke the rules, let him pay the dues. 

[sweetmusicviola16]

The league has opened up an investigation.

As for gambling,it's reached some terrible levels in society. Our own state having promoted it for years and continuing to do so is disgusting at best. I watch people over and over buying many dollars worth of tickets at the convenience stores. Who are most of these people as a general rule? The less well to do of society is who. Those who can ill afford to lose the $50-$100 they will lose. Our own government is preying on its people. That's my opinion anyway.

[Vanimal46]

On 3/22/2024 at 6:03 PM, sweetmusicviola16 said:

The league has opened up an investigation

Pictured: Rob Manfred digging deep to find out the truth in this investigation. 
 

[Vanimal46]

If an investigation is open for MLB, shouldn’t Ohtani be placed on the restricted list until the investigation is complete?

[DJL44]

On 3/22/2024 at 6:03 PM, sweetmusicviola16 said:

As for gambling,it's reached some terrible levels in society. Our own state having promoted it for years and continuing to do so is disgusting at best. I watch people over and over buying many dollars worth of tickets at the convenience stores. Who are most of these people as a general rule? The less well to do of society is who. Those who can ill afford to lose the $50-$100 they will lose. Our own government is preying on its people. That's my opinion anyway.

The lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math.

[Vanimal46]

On 3/21/2024 at 4:26 PM, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

I'll start off by saying that I am not a gambler and frankly don't get it (the thrill of winning).  I believe that all this online sports gambling stuff will lead to nothing but trouble for major league sports and players, outside of the damage done to the gamblers and their families.

Right there with you, and the damage is already happening in other sports. The NBA like you mentioned, has sports books inside some teams’ arenas where it’s legal to gamble. NBA coach J.B. Bickerstaff recently discussed being threatened by a gambler who obtained his personal phone number. He also said there are fans courtside yelling at him to keep certain players in because it’s an 11 point spread. 

I’m not a gambler and probably never will be when it’s legalized. I don’t care if others do, but it would be nice to watch sports content without the over/under and money line shoved in our faces every second. 

[nicksaviking]

52 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

If an investigation is open for MLB, shouldn’t Ohtani be placed on the restricted list until the investigation is complete?

I think the distraction is going to be bigger issue for the Dodgers than they think. Especially if the feds start requesting information and interviews. Hope MLB not putting him on the restricted list bites them in the butt in the long term.

[Doctor Gast]

On 3/21/2024 at 4:28 PM, cheeseheadgophfan said:

This whole story doesn't pass the smell test......you've seen the video of Ohtani and the interpreter talking very friendly to each other in the dugout supposedly after it was known that he had "stolen" 4.5 million dollars?  SMH. All sports gambling is illegal in CA so even if Ohtani wired the funds to the bookie to cover illegal bets, he's in trouble.  I haven't seen any reports that any of the bets were on baseball, so a lifetime ban is unlikely (ala Pete Rose) but I can see a years suspension or something along those lines.  

What I can't fathom is how you an lose 4.5 million dollars betting on sports.  How can you be that bad at picking winners???  LOL

Yeah, if someone stole 4.5MM from me I wouldn't be so chummy.

[nicksaviking]

43 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

Yeah, if someone stole 4.5MM from me I wouldn't be so chummy.

I wouldn't be chummy with him if I had to pay off a 4.5M gambling debt of his either.....

[Doctor Gast]

36 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I wouldn't be chummy with him if I had to pay off a 4.5M gambling debt of his either.....

Yeah, they must be very good friends, for him to pay off his gambling debt & remain friends. But to steal is total betrayal of his trust & IMO would be much more difficult to remain chummy.

[Parfigliano]

5 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

If an investigation is open for MLB, shouldn’t Ohtani be placed on the restricted list until the investigation is complete?

Shhhhhhh.

[Parfigliano]

6 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

If an investigation is open for MLB, shouldn’t Ohtani be placed on the restricted list until the investigation is complete?

Yes

[Parfigliano]

On 3/22/2024 at 10:27 AM, bean5302 said:

This is a pretty good link if people are interested in the illegal bookmaker element.
https://sportshandle.com/ohtani-bombhell-shifts-investigation-to-bowyer/

From everything I can tell right now, MLB, the Dodgers, Mizuhara, Ohtani and Bowyer's public positions currently amount to:
No MLB betting
No Ohtani involvement
Embezzlement of Ohtani's money by Mizuhara
Wire fraud by Mizuhara
Illegal book making if bets were placed by Mizuhara from prohibited states.

MLB and L.A. probably aren't going to have a lot of power to influence the case since it's being handled by the feds.

Im gonna go conspiracy here...the Feds handled the JFK investigation...not alot of confidence in Feds

[MMMordabito]

Ohtani didn't know where $16 million was?

 

 

[Squirrel]

20 minutes ago, MMMordabito said:

Ohtani didn't know where $16 million was?

 

 

Yeah ... seems like they are working really hard to make sure he's innocent, but who knows. When you have that much money and hand over your trust to someone else? Who knows. I mean, embezzlement is a thing. How does anyone not know, yet, it happens. I guess when you have too much money, it's easier for some of it to get 'lost' in the shuffle?

[chpettit19]

8 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Yeah ... seems like they are working really hard to make sure he's innocent, but who knows. When you have that much money and hand over your trust to someone else? Who knows. I mean, embezzlement is a thing. How does anyone not know, yet, it happens. I guess when you have too much money, it's easier for some of it to get 'lost' in the shuffle?

The language barrier adds another dimension to this all, too. I have no idea what the truth is, but Ohtani had to rely on Ippei for far more than the average rich person has to rely on someone.

[chpettit19]

I will also note that Amit Patel was just sentenced to 6.5 years in federal prison for embezzling over 22 million from the Jacksonville Jaguars over the course of 3+ years. These things do happen. I have no idea what the truth is with Ohtani and Ippei, but the idea that it isn't realistic is probably based more on our "everyday Joe" lifestyles and experiences. It's crazy to me that this kind of stuff can happen, but it happens all the time. Smart but shady people get access to large sums of money and can make some of it disappear for quite a while without anybody noticing.

[MMMordabito]

It just doesn't add up to me that Ohtani was so smart and aware of the CBA that he could suggest to the Dodgers how they could make an unprecedented contract work, but then he's not aware of his own personal finances including $16 million.  I guess he can hit and pitch with the best of them, so maybe he can analyze the CBA and be a dumb jock with the best of them too.

[chpettit19]

4 minutes ago, MMMordabito said:

It just doesn't add up to me that Ohtani was so smart and aware of the CBA that he could suggest to the Dodgers how they could make an unprecedented contract work, but then he's not aware of his own personal finances including $16 million.  I guess he can hit and pitch with the best of them, so maybe he can analyze the CBA and be a dumb jock with the best of them too.

Bobby Bonilla is still getting paid now despite not having played an MLB game since 2001. Deferred money isn't some magic idea somebody just thought up. It's been happening for decades. Ohtani's deal just has much bigger numbers involved.

You don't think anybody in the Jags organization was paying attention to their finances and should've noticed 22 million going missing? It happens. All the time. And everyone in that org, I assume, speaks english and didn't need somebody to talk to the bank for them.

[Unwinder]

The best possible outcome for baseball is that Ohtani isn't guilty but was involved just enough to get suspended for one year while he isn't pitching anyway. And then when he comes back he's sort of a bad boy who everyone can feel good about rooting against.

[jmlease1]

This story does just keep getting wilder and wilder. $16M is a LOT of money, even for Ohtani.

[Schmoeman5]

I'm not a gambler. Yet I'd be willing to bet the house that Ohtani will be completely exonerated. The language of what's being reported all point in that direction. The language barrier allowed Ippei access to his accounts. Ippei impersonating Ohtani. Ohtani cooperating with DOJ. Giving up his cell phone. He's going to come out clean. No one's going after him. I'm not going to say he knew or didn't know what was going on. Whether he did or not,  it won't matter. Ippei is toast. Unless he's got some secret recordings or some documentation of Ohtanis involvement. 

[chpettit19]

https://theathletic.com/5409393/2024/04/11/shohei-ohtani-interpreter-affidavit-takeaways/

Pretty good breakdown of the affidavit here for anyone with an Athletic account. Sounds like Ohtani really never even accessed that account and Ippei just turned it into his own personal account. 

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

There's plenty of stories about professional athletes who lost millions, if not everything, because they let the wrong people manage their finances. It is not out of the realm of possibility that Ohtani wasn't at all aware of what was going on.

But...

What I find interesting is that his agent was aware of the account and asked Ippei about on multiple occasions. The agent wasn't implicated. So, that begs the question for me. What was the deal with the agent? Did he accept Ippei at face value and never mentioned it to Ohtani? That's where it gets murky for me. I would suspect the agent would've given his client a head's up...

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

There's plenty of stories about professional athletes who lost millions, if not everything, because they let the wrong people manage their finances. It is not out of the realm of possibility that Ohtani wasn't at all aware of what was going on.

But...

What I find interesting is that his agent was aware of the account and asked Ippei about on multiple occasions. The agent wasn't implicated. So, that begs the question for me. What was the deal with the agent? Did he accept Ippei at face value and never mentioned it to Ohtani? That's where it gets murky for me. I would suspect the agent would've given his client a head's up...

Ippei was the only person in the room with the agent, bookkeeper, and financial advisor who spoke Japanese. He told them Ohtani wanted them to track all of his accounts except for that one. On one occasion he's accused of telling the agent and his team that Ohtani was sick and having a meeting with them alone where he told them Ohtani wanted that account to be private. The affidavit suggests that Ippei used the language barrier to his full advantage.

[Mike Sixel]

He should sue the hell out of the agency and every athlete should leave them. Seriously awful job by them.