Candidates to be removed from the 40-man

[LA Vikes Fan]

Makes sense to DFA Floro. He wasn't going to make the team for the playoffs and his contract is up at the end of the year. Why save him for 6 meaningless games?

I think this is it. No reason to rush Alcala back; he won't be on a post season roster either.  Post season bull pen is Duran, Thielbar, Jax, Pagan, Stewart, Paddack, Maeda, Varland. Maybe add one of Funderburk, Keuchel or Ober, most likely Funderburk (my choice)or Keuchel. I don't see Ober in the BP for the first round and Ryan is starter #3. Still gives us only 11 or 12 pitchers so we can take 14 or 15 bats. 

[LA Vikes Fan]

On 9/23/2023 at 2:57 PM, Parfigliano said:

Buxton.  Drop the anchor.  Now.

Too soon for the long term. I agree with you for this year. He didn't hit in AAA (SSS) so it's hard to see why we would activate him for the playoffs if he can't play in the field. And he can't. Have to keep the DH spot open for Lewis in the first round. I hate to say it, but I wouldn't be surprised if Buxton is left off of the post season roster for at least the first round and maybe even more, IF there is more. 

[GusGus11]

4 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

Makes sense to DFA Floro. He wasn't going to make the team for the playoffs and his contract is up at the end of the year. Why save him for 6 meaningless games?

I think this is it. No reason to rush Alcala back; he won't be on a post season roster either.  Post season bull pen is Duran, Thielbar, Jax, Pagan, Stewart, Paddack, Maeda, Varland. Maybe add one of Funderburk, Keuchel or Ober, most likely Funderburk (my choice)or Keuchel. I don't see Ober in the BP for the first round and Ryan is starter #3. Still gives us only 11 or 12 pitchers so we can take 14 or 15 bats. 

Yup. No room for Alcala who hasnt done enough up here when healthy anyways to make that a move.

BP is set for playoffs with the guys you said with Funderburk as the potential added option if we feel we need another lefty vs whoever we play in WC

Ober is off the WC to wait for ALDS and Keuchel is just a dugout fan.

[nicksaviking]

29 minutes ago, GusGus11 said:

Floro DFA'd for Stewart.

We officially had no trade deadline. 

Yet, still infinitely better than last years....

[jorgenswest]

2 hours ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

Regarding Gallo - the Twins like doing business with Boras. That's the primary reason Gallo is still around. 

There is a baseball reason to keep Gallo around. Now that he has served out his IL days, if the Twins need to they can add a player not on the 40 but in the organization to the playoff roster.

For example if an injury were to knock a catcher out of the first series they could add Camargo as an injury replacement for Gallo who is on the IL. If Farmer is injured and they could add Lee or Martin as SS insurance.

I think the Boras narrative about Gallo is nonsense. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

On 9/23/2023 at 6:46 PM, Richie the Rally Goat said:

No way Celestino gets DFA’d.

my guess

Floro, Gallo, Stevenson

edit to add, agreed that Alcala might get optioned and Stevenson would not get optioned/DFA’d

[Squirrel]

2 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

You’re not. I wouldn’t have guessed it to come this early, but so it goes.

[Danchat]

Celestino was highly likely to be removed once the season was over, so It’s not a big deal DFA’ing him now. Ironically it’s to get Alcala, the other half of the Pressly trade, onto the roster.

[lecroy24fan]

1 hour ago, Danchat said:

Celestino was highly likely to be removed once the season was over, so It’s not a big deal DFA’ing him now. Ironically it’s to get Alcala, the other half of the Pressly trade, onto the roster.

But they had an open spot on the 40 man. 

[Linus]

Pressly trade is looking pretty bad right now. Don’t know if Alcala will make it to spring on the 40 man either. 

[jorgenswest]

Celestino was removed. It isn’t surprising but maybe a little sobering for our perception of Martin’s progress in AAA. Celestino had a WOBA .001 points better than Martin and their ISO, OBP and SLG were very close. Both are 24 but Celestino is out of options and Martin has 3.

Hopefully Celestino will get a chance from someone and make the most of it as Castro did this year.

edited to fix mistake on number of options. Thanks chpettit19.

[chpettit19]

58 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

Celestino was removed. It isn’t surprising but maybe a little sobering for our perception of Martin’s progress in AAA. Celestino had a WOBA .001 points better than Martin and their ISO, OBP and SLG were very close. Both are 24 but Celestino is out of options and I think Martin has two left. 

Hopefully Celestino will get a chance from someone and make the most of it as Castro did this year.

Martin has all of his options left as he has never been on a 40-man roster.

[stringer bell]

2 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

Celestino was removed. It isn’t surprising but maybe a little sobering for our perception of Martin’s progress in AAA. Celestino had a WOBA .001 points better than Martin and their ISO, OBP and SLG were very close. Both are 24 but Celestino is out of options and I think Martin has two left. 

Hopefully Celestino will get a chance from someone and make the most of it as Castro did this year.

Careers aren’t a straight line. Austin Martin (at 24) is showing the tools (and production) that made him a top draft choice, while Celestino has stagnated. 
 

I wish Celestino well, but I doubt that that the team will regret his DFA. 

[jorgenswest]

10 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Careers aren’t a straight line. Austin Martin (at 24) is showing the tools (and production) that made him a top draft choice, while Celestino has stagnated. 
 

I wish Celestino well, but I doubt that I will regret his DFA. 

I do see the difference in stolen bases and the ability to play second base. I don’t see more production at the bat by looking at that stat line. They are virtually the same in AAA. Celestino really has very little minor league time. He had a full season at lower full season A level in 2019, no baseball in 2020, rushed to the majors in 2021, sat on the bench in 2022 and battled back from injury this year. Is that what you mean by stagnated?

It really reminds me how useless traditional stat lines can be even after a season of play. A 24 year old with a .392 OBP a several more walks than strike outs looks at least somewhat worthwhile. You can find a nearly identical AAA season from LaMonte Wade in 2019. Wade was a year older and his WRC+ a few ticks lower. Another player that stagnated?

[Riverbrian]

When Celestino got hurt this year... the chance of Celestino remaining with the Twins became slim to none. It was his last option year... he needed this year to show what he could do.

There is a big wall of players in front of him on the 26 and 40 man roster and a pack of wolves coming behind him. 

You can't keep the wolves away when you are hurt with your last option exhausted. 

Celestino wasn't going to survive the winter.   

[Kenny Powers]

10 hours ago, stringer bell said:

Careers aren’t a straight line. Austin Martin (at 24) is showing the tools (and production) that made him a top draft choice, while Celestino has stagnated. 
 

I wish Celestino well, but I doubt that that the team will regret his DFA. 

I agree with you.  But...part of me also thinks circumstances can also create stagnation.  Celestino started 2021 at AA at age 22.  Then was promoted to AAA where he hit .290 with a .827 OPS at AAA in 2021.  And he got his first promotion to the majors that year as well.  Things were looking pretty good for only age 22.

Last year at age 23,  he was back in the majors because of Buxton's health.  He only had 183 ABs at AAA up to that point.  In a perfect world, he would have been back to AAA - but they needed him to play CF.  His second season at the MLB level was better than his first go around, but he still only hit .238.  Surprisingly, that batting average was better than:  Polonco, Larnach, Wallner, Kepler and Buxton.  Of course we all know batting average is only half the equation and his lack of power is certainly a drawback.  It's too bad he couldn't have had more time in AAA to see if they could have developed him more.

At the end of the day, you make your own breaks in this world.  He didn't hit this year at AAA, so I guess I'm at peace with removing him from the 40.  Martin can fill that CF depth void and provide greater positional flexibility as others have noted.

[jmlease1]

When you're on the fringe, everything plays into the decisions. lack of options, limited success in MLB (even if celestino was pushed sooner than he should have been, though sheer necessity), limited progress as either a hitter or defender (he wasn't bad in in AAA this year, but he was a better hitter in 2021 and wasn't showing much power this year), and he'd had a professionalism blip during his time in the majors. Going into his age 25 season, he looks like a replacement level player/organizational depth guy. 

Maybe it would have been different for Celestino if he would have had a 2020 season to grow, hadn't been pushed up to MLB before he was ready in 2021, had been able to spend more time in AAA in 2022 before being called into action again, and hadn't gotten hurt early this season. He had a lot of things go wrong for him that weren't in his control. He also never took off as a hitter and was good (while a little erratic) but not great defensively.

[Craig Arko]

The obvious elephant in this room is Gallo.

[wabene]

20 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Yeah I'm guessing Cele's base running gaffes has something to do with them grabbing Stevenson. 

[nicksaviking]

11 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

I do see the difference in stolen bases and the ability to play second base. I don’t see more production at the bat by looking at that stat line. They are virtually the same in AAA. Celestino really has very little minor league time. He had a full season at lower full season A level in 2019, no baseball in 2020, rushed to the majors in 2021, sat on the bench in 2022 and battled back from injury this year. Is that what you mean by stagnated?

It really reminds me how useless traditional stat lines can be even after a season of play. A 24 year old with a .392 OBP a several more walks than strike outs looks at least somewhat worthwhile. You can find a nearly identical AAA season from LaMonte Wade in 2019. Wade was a year older and his WRC+ a few ticks lower. Another player that stagnated?

If they are similar slap-hitting players, then they don't need two of them. I'd rather have the guy with options and the higher OBP.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

26 minutes ago, wabene said:

Yeah I'm guessing Cele's base running gaffes has something to do with them grabbing Stevenson. 

I thought they nabbed Stevenson so when MAT came back they could waive Stevenson and not lose Celestino.

turns out, it was likely a performance/trust thing as you suggest

[FlyingFinn]

4 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

I thought they nabbed Stevenson so when MAT came back they could waive Stevenson and not lose Celestino.

turns out, it was likely a performance/trust thing as you suggest

It was all about Stevenson's base stealing, speed and defense. It's at a high enough level to consider a spot on a playoff roster. I do think the Twins will DFA him this winter but hope to have him back at AAA next year in hopes to repeat this in 2024.

[jorgenswest]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

If they are similar slap-hitting players, then they don't need two of them. I'd rather have the guy with options and the higher OBP.

In this case it is one or the other. Martin has the options and Celestino the higher OBP. Celestino had the best BB/K ratio in the organization at 1.14 with St. Paul leading to the high OBP.

As for slap hitters the Twins certainly don’t seem to favor the low strike out contact type hitters. It can take time to develop that skill as players need to learn to be aggressive on the good pitches to drive and patient on pitches where they have the skill to make contact but the contact is weak. Wade was 27 before he showed any power. It is tough with international players who run out of optIons so soon. Detroit gave Castro through age 25 to show his value and the Twins were the benefactor at 26. Celestino ran out of time here.

I don’t disagree with the move as I think they would have had to make room on the 40 and it doesn’t appear that he would be among the top 4 outfielders next year. I do wonder if he would have had a little more trade value into the off-season. Some teams must value those on base low strike out skills. They would have needed to release Keuchel instead of IL him to clear that spot. The Twins received very little for Wade so it probably doesn't matter. Teams are needing to clear spots on the 40 now for the 60 day IL players and players need to add to avoid the rule 5. The demand will be low.

[nicksaviking]

3 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

In this case it is one or the other. Martin has the options and Celestino the higher OBP. Celestino had the best BB/K ratio in the organization at 1.14 with St. Paul leading to the high OBP.

As for slap hitters the Twins certainly don’t seem to favor the low strike out contact type hitters. It can take time to develop that skill as players need to learn to be aggressive on the good pitches to drive and patient on pitches where they have the skill to make contact but the contact is weak. Wade was 27 before he showed any power. It is tough with international players who run out of optIons so soon. Detroit gave Castro through age 25 to show his value and the Twins were the benefactor at 26. Celestino ran out of time here.

I don’t disagree with the move as I think they would have had to make room on the 40 and it doesn’t appear that he would be among the top 4 outfielders next year. I do wonder if he would have had a little more trade value into the off-season. Some teams must value those on base low strike out skills. They would have needed to release Keuchel instead of IL him to clear that spot. The Twins received very little for Wade so it probably doesn't matter. Teams are needing to clear spots on the 40 now for the 60 day IL players and players need to add to avoid the rule 5. The demand will be low.

Martin's minor league OBP is .30 points higher than Celestino. Add in that he has options and this seems a no brainer. Celestino was never going to be more than the 26th man on the roster.

I mean if you're going to lose players, lose the players that you can easily replace in free agency (or waivers). Even if he were a capable MLB hitter, (which Celestino has shown no indication of) you can sign guys just like him for peanuts. Guys like Wade or Castro are never going to be a tough sign for the Twins, or heck, even the Pirates.

As much as I'm in favor of trying out Martin in CF next year should Buxton be unable to play there, I'll likely be saying the same thing about him in 3 years should he not be able to push is OPS over .800.

[wabene]

On 9/24/2023 at 12:01 PM, Linus said:

He’s not really looking like an attractive 4th outfielder and he does make a ton of mistakes on the bases and in the field. 

Location, location, location, this comment is clearly made from somewhere in Minnesota🙂