Buxton can run like a flash on the base path but can't play right field?

[KirbyDome89]

5 minutes ago, wabene said:

Are you actually laughing? I hope so. But yes I get that you will express your opinion on this subject you have limited knowledge of. Ok now I'm laughing, lol. 

If you've got inside info on what's going on feel free to share friend....

[wabene]

17 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

If you've got inside info on what's going on feel free to share friend....

I don't have this inside info you speak of. It is a strange and exasperating situation that I would like to see resolved, as much as these things can be, and then just please fade away. 

[mrtwinsfan]

23 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Welcome to the site!

Gladden talked about how Mullins robbed Buck of that home run Friday and how maybe it would get his competitive juices flowing to go back out there, and in the interview with Levine, it was more about what wasn’t said— for example, Buxton’s knee wasn’t mentioned. 

So we wait. 

And Wait ? Getting Old

[Doctor Wu]

23 hours ago, CRF said:

I'd just like the FO to level with the fans and tell us EXACTLY wtf is really going on with him. That would end all the speculation. Is there permanent damage to his knee, that will never improve? What did they discover when they went in there the first time? Does he need another procedure done? Why can't he play the OF, but he can still run/slide/etc? Just tell the truth...what's the big secret? 

Exactly. We are ALL frustrated and impatient, desperately wanting Buxton to play centerfield again. And I think most of us can accept the fact that he has physical issues that prevent him from taking the field. And yet, he is still in the lineup as a DH most days, and running the bases. I don't recall seeing him being lifted for a pinch runner, so what exactly is this mysterious condition that prevents him from taking the field? Caution is one thing, but I don't see any reason for the team continuing be so mysterious and not just letting us know what is going on with Buxton.

[Azviking101]

On 7/10/2023 at 4:32 PM, Frank123 said:

We all know Buxton is not "able" to play outfield due to his knee. The Twin so much stated that a few weeks back. This past weekend it looked like he was moving pretty good rounding the bases to score and didn't look like he had any knee issues. I would think running the bases is just as much "work" and puts as much stress on your knee as playing outfield. So what is it? As a DH he is not getting it done. Bring back Lew Ford.

Seems like you’re referring to 95% of the plays that include jogging over to catch a fly ball for fielding a single, but what happens when he’s able to catch up to a ball at the fence or the foul line in right? That’s what they’re worried about. When he has to make a low probability play, what happens?

[mnfireman]

On the subject of trading Buxton, he has full no-trade protection. And MLB contracts are guaranteed, so he will not be DFAd, at least not by this team. 

I do think the team could place him on the IL for 10 days followed by a rehab in St. Paul, maybe a little rest followed by crushing some AAA pitching might be the re-set he needs. Kirilloff, Julien, Gallo, Solano and Jeffers could handle DH duties. Polanco is also due back shortly. Wallner could be called up. Correa could use the DH spot as a day off every so often. Even Miranda, maybe not having to bring his glove to the ballpark helps his hitting. 

If Buxton was crushing it I wouldn't suggest this, but he is league average at DH and the other players could provide the same results without hurting the defense or forcing a "hot" bat to sit.

[Nine of twelve]

In addition to the many posts saying he should be playing CF there have been many posts recommending that he be put on the IL or have another procedure done on his knee. It seems obvious that the consensus within the organization is that there would be little to no benefit from time on the IL. It also seems obvious that the consensus regarding any procedure that may be indicated is that it would best be done after the season ends.

Again, I trust the organization in this matter. For that reason I think the proper course of action is to accept their decisions and simply hope for the best.

 

[nicksaviking]

*****Moderator Note*****  

Keep the discussion on point and not aimed at other posters or their commenting tendencies.

[chpettit19]

On 7/10/2023 at 9:50 PM, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

One thing Levine said is they were waiting to hear from Paparesta and Buxton. Paparesta is the brand new head trainer and not exactly one of the medical professionals per se, at least not in the sense you intended. Important job, but not one of the doctors.

He actually says "There's a lot of people who are participating in this conversation. I think the ones that are most central to the dialogue Nick Paparesta, our head athletic trainer, our strength and conditioning group, and Byron himself...We as a front office, and even Rocco I think, are really leaning into our medical staff, and ultimately Byron." He literally mentions the medical staff so I'm not sure why you'd suggest he didn't. I'd also be pretty willing to bet that Paparesta gets some pretty sizeable input from the team doctors.

[chpettit19]

This topic is truly getting exhausting. For many reasons. Mostly because it's just so disappointing to not be able to see Buxton be Buxton. 

I am still not sure why people think the Twins wouldn't put Buxton in CF if they thought he could physically do it. Of course this team is better if Buxton is in CF. There are a whole bunch of people with their jobs on the line depending on how the team performs. You don't think those people would put him out there if they thought it was a manageable thing for him to do?

As for the "hitting vs fielding" debate. It's about wear and tear, isn't it? If your belief is that they simply are trying to avoid an acute, "random" injury I get why you question it. I would, too. But they're trying to limit the wear and tear in hopes of his injury situation (I think we all assume it's a knee) improves. Hitting+Fielding>Hitting. Pretty simple equation. We don't even have to get into the differences between running the bases or tracking a flyball. It doesn't have to be that complicated. They're trying to limit wear and tear. Having him do less (read: don't play defense) achieves that goal. Don't see the controversy there. Sprinting 4 times is less than sprinting 4 times plus playing defense. Simple.

I want Buxton back in CF. You all want him back in CF. The team wants him back in CF. Buxton wants to be back in CF. That interview that was posted was actually encouraging to me. Sounds like Buck has been doing some fielding work recently in hopes of getting back out there. Hopefully that means we'll get to see him out there again "soon." 

I'm super excited for when he goes back out there and then we get to have daily threads about "see, told you he could do it!" instead of daily "why won't they put him out there?" threads. At least we'd have Buxton in CF to make those threads less annoying to me.

[insagt1]

over the last several years, it becomes more and more clear that organizations keep medical stuff close to the vest. Notice that in hockey when a guy is hurt it is only reported as 'upper body' or 'lower body'...and not one thing more. They don't want the opponents to know anything that might give them an edge if/when the player comes back. Frustrating for us, the fans to not know more, but we aren't going to get more. I dont think we fault the Twins or any organization for not giving away too much unless its completely obvious to everyone. (ie, a broken leg is a broken leg if the guy can't walk off the field..and even there, there are different levels of 'broken'.)

Buxton used to be a 5 tool Mr Excitement. Unfortunately his body is betraying him at every turn. His desire hasn't dimmed and he still works his behind off but he just can't be who he used to be anymore and it doesn't appear that this will change.

[Bodie]

On 7/10/2023 at 3:43 PM, Mike Sixel said:

It's been a few days since we had a Buxton can play the field thread.

As if the team wouldn't play him out there if they thought it was a good idea....

You're talking about the same people/person who thinks it is a "good idea" to run Joey Gallo out almost every day...

[Badjuggler]

You are correct. Straight line running is a whole lot easier on a bad knee than zig zagging in multiple directions that playing in the outfield requires. This should be easy to understand.

[KBJ1]

If Buxton was producing like Nelson Cruz at DH, fine. But he is NOT

 If he can't play, IL him.

Get a new hitting coach, bring up all the youngsters (Lanarch, Walner, Kiriloff, Lewis, Julien) lose Kepler, Gallo, Pagan , Sands.

This team starts hitting, there's no telling how far they can go!

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

22 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

He actually says "There's a lot of people who are participating in this conversation. I think the ones that are most central to the dialogue Nick Paparesta, our head athletic trainer, our strength and conditioning group, and Byron himself...We as a front office, and even Rocco I think, are really leaning into our medical staff, and ultimately Byron." He literally mentions the medical staff so I'm not sure why you'd suggest he didn't. I'd also be pretty willing to bet that Paparesta gets some pretty sizeable input from the team doctors.

Thanks for transcribing. For all we know, the sizable input from team doctors could very well be: Buxton is cleared to play outfield as well as run the bases. 

Levine’s comment about “ultimately up to Byron” should be very concerning to some people. Aside from the usual aches and pains, is this team actually encouraging guys to play through injuries that are hurting their performance?

Look. This Buxton situation could pay off brilliantly if Buxton starts hitting and ramping up in center just in time for the Twins to play in the postseason. This makes the discussion fun. In the meantime, if people are bothered by the discussion, nobody is forcing them to participate. 🙂

[chpettit19]

36 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Thanks for transcribing. For all we know, the sizable input from team doctors could very well be: Buxton is cleared to play outfield as well as run the bases. 

Levine’s comment about “ultimately up to Byron” should be very concerning to some people. Aside from the usual aches and pains, is this team actually encouraging guys to play through injuries that are hurting their performance?

Look. This Buxton situation could pay off brilliantly if Buxton starts hitting and ramping up in center just in time for the Twins to play in the postseason. This makes the discussion fun. In the meantime, if people are bothered by the discussion, nobody is forcing them to participate. 🙂

I'd be awfully surprised if that's what the Drs are saying and Paparesta, Buxton, and the strength and conditioning guys are just deciding to ignore it. But it is a possibility.

Why would that be concerning? Aren't literally all of our health and lifestyle decisions up to us? I don't see the connection between "ultimately up to Byron" and "encouraging guys to play through injuries that are hurting their performance." Byron, and the Twins, have a whole lot of smart, well trained people giving them advice and information. Byron takes that information, adds his own knowledge of how his body is truly feeling day to day, and makes a decision on what he'd like to do. The team can't force him to run out to CF, or take an AB, if he doesn't want to. The Twins play way more games than they should with a short bench because they don't force guys to play through things. I don't see that at all. If anything they're overly cautious with injuries.

[Hubie29]

With a .208 average, they don't have to be concerned with Buxton running the bases.  I also believe there was some understanding between Buxton, his agent and the Twins on the knee issue and long term ramifications that allowed us to sign him at such a "bargain basement" price.  Cough.

[Finlander]

In the outfield, it's not just running, it's often running while looking upwards. Recall that Bux used to suffer from migraine headaches, and he's had some collisions in the past. I wonder if something like vertigo or some other form of imbalance is impeding his return to CF more so than his knee. You look straight ahead or scan around in a generally level plane while running the bases. Much different than looking up...

[Minny505]

There is so much more running when playing the OF. Every inning in fact. And much more sprinting as well. Playing in the OF is draining. 

He only has to run once or twice a game, on average, as a DH. He would be increasing his running by 10x playing the OF. 

Plus OF requires a lot more sudden stops than running the bases. Sudden stops put a lot of pressure on your knee joints. Running in a straight line with no urgency to stop, or stopping by leaving your feet, are much easier on those knees.

I do think when he is ready to play OF again it might be wise to move him to RF as a precaution because COF is 30%-40% less wear and tear than CF. Every bit can help keep a player like Buxton on the field and productive.

[Frank123]

On 7/11/2023 at 9:39 AM, AlGoreRythm said:

Buddy, what's silly is not realizing the difference between running the bases for 90-360 feet every hour or two vs playing the outfield and running all over the field PLUS running the bases.

It's extremely straightforward, obvious, and logical that the amount of running involved increases quite a bit playing the outfield.

Load management, look it up.

In 2022 Buxton played 57 games in CF and recorded 133 putouts. An average of 2.3 a game. We're not asking him to do much. It would be even less "taxing" if he played a corner position.  It is what it is. A DH hitting 208.

[Guest]

Say hello to Club Rocco....

[Nine of twelve]

1 hour ago, Frank123 said:

In 2022 Buxton played 57 games in CF and recorded 133 putouts. An average of 2.3 a game. We're not asking him to do much. It would be even less "taxing" if he played a corner position.  It is what it is. A DH hitting 208.

There's way more to playing CF than making putouts. There are two corner outfielders who need to be backed up when they make plays. There are base hits to field, especially gappers which often require more running. Outfielders also back up infielders, for example the CF on an attempted steal of second base or the RF moving toward the line on routine ground balls. Outfielders need to move almost every time a batter puts a ball in play.

[FossSellsKeys]

It's just completely different. As someone who was an outfielder, albeit just at a high school and low-end college level, 98%+ of the running in a game is on defense. You might be on base once or twice a game and have to run (hopefully!) As much as 360 feet around, usually in a line or with a couple of pretty predictable turns in the middle. You run way more than that just running out to your position and back every inning on defense. Then, you have to be backing up the other outfielders on fly balls not just ones hit to yourself, and backing up the infielders on all the plays on the infield. You're basically running on every play quite a bit if you're doing a good job. And, it's much less predictable: you might have to move any direction at any given speed at any moment. It's quite a lot more dynamic stress on the joints and muscles. I 100% get where he could get a good burst a couple times a game on the bases but not be able to play the outfield. It's a huge leap up in work and stress and strain. 

[wabene]

Bump.

Just thought this needed more discussion, 

[Doctor Wu]

At this point, the current Buxton situation is not only frustrating, but very confusing for us fans. In most cases that we are aware of, if a player has an injury or some type of physical disability, he will go on the IL for a certain period of time, or have surgery performed. You do what needs to be done.  But other than the hit-by-pitch incident a month or so ago, Buxton has NOT gone on the IL this year (at least I think that was the only time). He continues to DH most days, almost like clockwork. Okay, we can accept that he can't take the field, or won't take the field this year, just let us know why that's the case, and don't keep us in suspense. We are adults and accept injuries and diminished capacity for performing certain tasks. Playing center field like Buxton has shown in the past takes a LOT of physical effort.  You want players in that position to play at the top of their capacity.  Either put Buxton on the IL and/or get him the operation he needs (if that's a solution) to be healthy again. But prolonging the inevitable and continuing this DH charade just isn't going to work long term. 

[SteveLV]

I am starting to wonder whether or not the Twins were able to insure all or part of Buxton's contract.

Long-term, this could impact decisions. Not this year or maybe even next, but if Buxton can never play in the field again he may have to retire for medical reasons and that could return some or all of his contract monies to the Club.

Not that I am concerned for the Pohlad's pocketbook, but as a fan if they recoup some or all of the contract that, ultimately, could allow them to spend that money on other players.

[AlGoreRythm]

22 hours ago, Frank123 said:

In 2022 Buxton played 57 games in CF and recorded 133 putouts. An average of 2.3 a game. We're not asking him to do much. It would be even less "taxing" if he played a corner position.  It is what it is. A DH hitting 208.

Ever played CF Frank?

You do a lot more running than 2.3 outs per game.

Obviously everyone would prefer him in CF, but you're minimizing the amount of effort and physical stress playing CF puts on a body. That's why it's considered one of the 2 most demanding defensive positions on the field...

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

16 hours ago, FossSellsKeys said:

It's just completely different. As someone who was an outfielder, albeit just at a high school and low-end college level, 98%+ of the running in a game is on defense. You might be on base once or twice a game and have to run (hopefully!) As much as 360 feet around, usually in a line or with a couple of pretty predictable turns in the middle. You run way more than that just running out to your position and back every inning on defense. Then, you have to be backing up the other outfielders on fly balls not just ones hit to yourself, and backing up the infielders on all the plays on the infield. You're basically running on every play quite a bit if you're doing a good job. And, it's much less predictable: you might have to move any direction at any given speed at any moment. It's quite a lot more dynamic stress on the joints and muscles. I 100% get where he could get a good burst a couple times a game on the bases but not be able to play the outfield. It's a huge leap up in work and stress and strain. 

May be so. I wouldn’t say it is completely different to minimize base running and bat swinging, which have their own funky torques and movements too. 

Either way, it would have been nice to hear something like what you said from the team, the trainer, or Buxton himself back in May.

But we didn’t. 

Imagine the Twins talking about Jorge Polanco or Tyler Mahle or any other player’s injury the same way they talk about Buxton’s injury, to the point where Levine didnt even speak the word injury in response to that interview question. I do like Levine. He’s got an honest communication style that I think other executives dont.

[ashbury]

7 hours ago, SteveLV said:

I am starting to wonder whether or not the Twins were able to insure all or part of Buxton's contract.

The team is owned by banking money.  I speculate that, within whatever league rules there are (and in particular there is no hard salary cap, just luxury taxes) the team to some degree self-insures in a way that the general public has no particular right to know about.  I choose to believe ownership would not let a truly disastrous contract cripple their asset for half a decade - front office personnel might have to forgo annual performance bonuses for a while.  All this, in preference to paying another company for the same insurance.

You can spin that as, "the Pohlads are cheap.  They won't even pay Lloyds of London for a policy."

Even more so than usual, just my opinion.

[Hubie29]

I am tired of the whole conversation. Buxton playing CF is the least of this clubs worries and should be the least of our worries.  Buxton doesn't score runs, or hit with runners in scoring position, or move runners up instead of striking out, while playing CF.  Those should be our worries.  Taylor is plenty adequate defensively in CF.