Buxton can run like a flash on the base path but can't play right field?

[Mike Sixel]

3 hours ago, Craig Arko said:

I’ll answer it. For this season, most likely. It won’t shock me if he has a follow up procedure after the season. As far as predicting the future, you will pick the four of hearts.

This. We have no idea what his condition is. Other than they don't play him in the field, which is an indication of what they think it is. I really wish he could play the field, but wishing isn't going to change anything.

[Nine of twelve]

3 hours ago, CRF said:

I'd just like the FO to level with the fans and tell us EXACTLY wtf is really going on with him. That would end all the speculation. Is there permanent damage to his knee, that will never improve? What did they discover when they went in there the first time? Does he need another procedure done? Why can't he play the OF, but he can still run/slide/etc? Just tell the truth...what's the big secret? 

 

2 hours ago, Squirrel said:

I don’t think they can give us absolutes at this point. And it’s frustrating, I’m completely there with you. They are trying various things to get to that absolute but obviously just aren’t there yet. As 9/12 pointed out above, after listening to the interview, there are a lot of people involved in the discussion and no one entity is making decisions alone, without lots of input. And I get that without absolutes, posters speculate, it’s the nature of it. However, some posters take that speculation and wondering to levels of conspiracy theories, and that gets to be more annoying; for me, anyway. It’s natural to wonder, when we see Bux running the base paths, to ask, ‘Why not CF?’ Our perception tells us something, but we have to remember, that perception isn’t the whole story, and I don’t think anyone really knows the whole story at this point in time. But I do think they are looking at everything and trying a course of action to try and get the best possible result, even if that course is so dang frustrating to all of us.

And I'll add this: what is to be gained for Buxton or the team by going public with detailed medical information? Nothing. Am I frustrated? Not really, because I am confident that all involved are doing what is best in their professional judgement. I miss seeing Buck playing CF, but I'm not going to whine about it.

[Schmoeman5]

14 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Are you of the belief Buxton has played his last meaningful innings in the outfield?

Yes! For the Twins.

[Squirrel]

11 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

Yes! For the Twins.

Do you think he's going to be traded or released or something?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

4 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

And don't demean athletic trainers by implying they are not professionals. They have much more knowledge and training in their field of expertise than you apparently give them credit for.

I literally said the athletic trainer is an important job.

I didn’t demean Paparesta in any way.

I get that you are incurious about this and don’t want a deeper discussion to happen. However, it is worth talking about. There are lots of other angles to it beyond just Buxton. Like what changed between mid-May when Buxton was scheduled to go back out into center, and today. Why hasn’t Buxton been put on the IL. Why have other head athletic trainers taken the fall for Falvey in the past.

One thing I like about Thad Levine is he is refreshingly honest in the things he doesn’t say. I don’t get the impression he wants to gaslight us. He recognizes this is a subject worth talking about.

[MABB1959]

I think his body is worn out and he should medically retire.  I think this terrifies both the Pohlad's and FO as they do not want to see the face of the franchise go.  Just looking at it he is hurting himself and the team as the FT DH (it hurts to say that).  

[AlGoreRythm]

26 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

I literally said the athletic trainer is an important job.

I didn’t demean Paparesta in any way.

I get that you are incurious about this and don’t want a deeper discussion to happen. However, it is worth talking about. There are lots of other angles to it beyond just Buxton. Like what changed between mid-May when Buxton was scheduled to go back out into center, and today. Why hasn’t Buxton been put on the IL. Why have other head athletic trainers taken the fall for Falvey in the past.

One thing I like about Thad Levine is he is refreshingly honest in the things he doesn’t say. I don’t get the impression he wants to gaslight us. He recognizes this is a subject worth talking about.

Where are you finding any info stating Buxton was "scheduled" to go back into CF?

I read a lot of reports stating the Twins "hope"was for him to play CF, but nothing that indicated anything beyond hope.

I think you're over-thinking the issue. They're managing Buxton's load with a mind toward the next 5 years of the deal as well as keeping him in the lineup this season as much as possible. Simple as that.

[Schmoeman5]

34 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Do you think he's going to be traded or released or something?

I think he will get traded at some point. Or retire. To think he's going to make a miraculous recovery is just wishful thinking. 2022 they tried to change things up. Some days in CF some at DH and sprinkle in some days off to try and maximize his playing time. This year he's been limited to strictly DH as I said in March while he was getting ready on the back fields in Ft. Meyers. He's stayed off the IL because he wants to contribute.  But he still has issues. Is he going to play until he breaks down again. Will he be able to get back to form in 2024? I doubt it. His history pretty much proves that. And father time always wins. Unless the Twins find a recipe to the fountain of youth or Buxton bucks the trend and miraculouly gets better and stronger as he ages. 

[Squirrel]

3 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

I think he will get traded at some point. Or retire. To think he's going to make a miraculous recovery is just wishful thinking. 2022 they tried to change things up. Some days in CF some at DH and sprinkle in some days off to try and maximize his playing time. This year he's been limited to strictly DH as I said in March while he was getting ready on the back fields in Ft. Meyers. He's stayed off the IL because he wants to contribute.  But he still has issues. Is he going to play until he breaks down again. Will he be able to get back to form in 2024? I doubt it. His history pretty much proves that. And father time always wins. Unless the Twins find a recipe to the fountain of youth or Buxton bucks the trend and miraculouly gets better and stronger as he ages. 

So, if this is the prognosis, who trades for him, even if he agrees to be traded?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

41 minutes ago, AlGoreRythm said:

Where are you finding any info stating Buxton was "scheduled" to go back into CF?

I read a lot of reports stating the Twins "hope"was for him to play CF, but nothing that indicated anything beyond hope.

I think you're over-thinking the issue. They're managing Buxton's load with a mind toward the next 5 years of the deal as well as keeping him in the lineup this season as much as possible. Simple as that.

Except for the part about people overthinking this, your last paragraph is exactly right and does not contradict the idea that he is still going to be eased back into center field at some point. 

A tweet from March:

 

[Schmoeman5]

1 minute ago, Squirrel said:

So, if this is the prognosis, who trades for him, even if he agrees to be traded?

Thats a great question.  What team will trade for a player who's going to be available for 60% of the season. And what would the Twins get in return? A team might give up a good prospect if the Twins absorb part of his contract. And if you're Buxton, and you agree to be traded. It would be to a contending team with a chance to win it all. And also  realize that he won't be the MAN or need to be for that matter. But as a contributor. That's not Buxton's mental makeup right now. Maybe Atlanta since he's a Georgia native. I don't think it'll happen this year. I love Buxton and enjoy his play when he's physically able. Still his physical history is against him. I just believe at some point he and the Twins will part ways. 

[FlyingFinn]

1 hour ago, AlGoreRythm said:

Where are you finding any info stating Buxton was "scheduled" to go back into CF?

That was clearly said in April by Rocco on the pregame radio show for the Twins. That changed in May to "we will reevaluate in June." So the date was moved back and terminology changed from scheduled to reevaluated. So plans have changed or not improved as expected early in the season.

[Parfigliano]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

So, if this is the prognosis, who trades for him, even if he agrees to be traded?

Also what would/could the Twins get for a guy who can only DH and is K prone?

[Mike Sixel]

19 minutes ago, FlyingFinn said:

That was clearly said in April by Rocco on the pregame radio show for the Twins. That changed in May to "we will reevaluate in June." So the date was moved back and terminology changed from scheduled to reevaluated. So plans have changed or not improved as expected early in the season.

Wait, so as time goes on, things change with more data and more playing?

I'm confused why this is an issue. 

I'm confused by what anyone would gain if the FO said he wasn't playing there this year, or that he might? What would change for anyone?

[wsnydes]

About the only thing that I'm getting out of this thread is that if the FO doesn't say anything, they'll get raked over the coals for it.  And if the FO DOES say something, they'll get raked over the coals for it.

[Parfigliano]

26 minutes ago, wsnydes said:

About the only thing that I'm getting out of this thread is that if the FO doesn't say anything, they'll get raked over the coals for it.  And if the FO DOES say something, they'll get raked over the coals for it.

Bingo!!!

[IndianaTwin]

3 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

 

And I'll add this: what is to be gained for Buxton or the team by going public with detailed medical information? Nothing. Am I frustrated? Not really, because I am confident that all involved are doing what is best in their professional judgement. I miss seeing Buck playing CF, but I'm not going to whine about it.

And I'll add to this that when they do make statements, folks start to read things into it. But stuff changes and then we get honked off that they seemingly didn't carry through. "They said that Buxton was going to start playing CF every day in May,* but now he isn't. They haven't been honest," etc.

I'm with you, 9/12. Disappointed? Sure. But also willing to trust that people a lot smarter than me are doing their best to maximize the team's performance, which includes figuring out to best handle Buxton's health.  

*They didn't actually say this, but that's how "we're going to start him at DH for a month or so, with the hopes that he's able to play some CF later" gets interpreted. 

[KirbyDome89]

18 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

Nope, and I don't have to be. Can you think of one good reason to limit Buck to DH if he is physically up to playing the OF? I sure can't. It's obvious that the consensus within the Twins organization is that playing him in the OF would be a bad idea.

Does it have to be a good reason? This is the same FO that couldn't bear to part with Kepler in the offseason and continues to run him out in RF and bat him in the middle of the order. Is it really that crazy to think they're completely comfortable with MAT in CF and keeping Buxton at DH because preservation is being prioritized over production?  

[IndianaTwin]

37 minutes ago, wsnydes said:

About the only thing that I'm getting out of this thread is that if the FO doesn't say anything, they'll get raked over the coals for it.  And if the FO DOES say something, they'll get raked over the coals for it.

The thread also popped a new question into my head, namely...

I wonder if Tony O ever reads TD and says to himself, "I'm sure glad I didn't have to deal with the Internet in the early 1970s."

[KirbyDome89]

17 hours ago, stringer bell said:

When Buxton has "busted it" down the line, he runs halfway to the right field stands (Maybe a small exaggeration). Often when he has slid into a base, he has a hard time gathering himself. I think there is definitely something wrong and that changing directions while in the field is less predictable than running the bases. He might not be able to make the cuts and route adjustments in the field. It may have also figured in the collision he had during the April Chicago series. Yes, he still can run fast, but being able to cut and stop quickly might be a problem. 

I continue to speculate on why the surgery in October was unsuccessful, at least on getting him back in the field. My speculation as a fellow sufferer is that the knee joint is arthritic and that the amount of recovery he can make is limited. 

If it's a stability issue with the knee I doubt he'd have medical clearance. 

[jharaldson]

2 minutes ago, IndianaTwin said:

The thread also popped a new question into my head, namely...

I wonder if Tony O ever reads TD and says to himself, "I'm sure glad I didn't have to deal with the Internet in the early 1970s."

Tony O was upfront with fans and media about his injury.  It is well known that he wrecked his knee on a sprinkler head in Oakland.  He missed most of a year with it and basically had no cartilage left after.  The specificity of our knowledge about Tony and the distance that Byron keeps fans from his injury journey are basically not comparable.  

[LA Vikes Fan]

17 hours ago, stringer bell said:

When Buxton has "busted it" down the line, he runs halfway to the right field stands (Maybe a small exaggeration). Often when he has slid into a base, he has a hard time gathering himself. I think there is definitely something wrong and that changing directions while in the field is less predictable than running the bases. He might not be able to make the cuts and route adjustments in the field. It may have also figured in the collision he had during the April Chicago series. Yes, he still can run fast, but being able to cut and stop quickly might be a problem. 

I continue to speculate on why the surgery in October was unsuccessful, at least on getting him back in the field. My speculation as a fellow sufferer is that the knee joint is arthritic and that the amount of recovery he can make is limited. 

The last player us are running halfway down right field line after busting it to first base was Barry Bonds his last few years. He did so because he had a bad knee and the abrupt stop caused pain so he shut it down slowly kind of like a drag racer. I've had six knee operations and can tell you that it's the cutting and quick stop and start that causes pain and can reinjure the knee, not the running in a straight line. 

Having said all that, I do really hope they put Buxton in the OF would soon. I really think that the lack of like playing in the field is one of the things that is significantly impacting his hitting. Also, as a completely amateur diagnosis, I noticed he tucks in his left foot in to act as a fulcrum when he swings. If he were to open up the toe of the left foot and realign his hips rather than closing the toe he would greatly reduce the torque on his knee and also save his hip, assuming his left knee is the bad one. Hey, it worked for my golf game but you do have to realign your hips or it screws up your swing path.

[AlGoreRythm]

2 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Except for the part about people overthinking this, your last paragraph is exactly right and does not contradict the idea that he is still going to be eased back into center field at some point. 

A tweet from March:

 

Well the issue is that y'all are making assumptions based on tweets from March or timelines from April.

Here's an update, since you guys missed it...

https://www.mlb.com/news/byron-buxton-still-not-healthy-enough-to-play-center-field?partnerID=mlbapp-android_article-share

Keeping that link in my clipboard for the next "Why isn't Button playing the OF" thread... 🥱

[AlGoreRythm]

In fact, here's the latest quote from June 20th, since I can't expect y'all to click a link and read more than a tweet...

“Do I think there's a chance this year? Sure, there's a chance this year,” manager Rocco Baldelli said. “Do I know what's going to happen? I absolutely don't. Nothing has really gone up or down on that scale since the beginning of the year. It hasn't gotten closer. It hasn't gotten further away. It's basically in a similar spot.”

There you have it. The only thing missing is Do quoting Dumb and Dumber, "So you're saying there's a chance!"

They aren't closing the door on Buxton playing the outfield this year, but DHing has him treading water physically, not improving as they'd hoped. If half a season not playing OF hasn't improved his knees, are we really so foolish to think he'll get better over the break and be ready to go 0-60 in the OF and make the catches we all love to see? Obviously that's silly.

Now we can close the book on these "just put Buxton in CF" threads, right?

[Rod Carews Birthday]

53 minutes ago, jharaldson said:

Tony O was upfront with fans and media about his injury.  It is well known that he wrecked his knee on a sprinkler head in Oakland.  He missed most of a year with it and basically had no cartilage left after.  The specificity of our knowledge about Tony and the distance that Byron keeps fans from his injury journey are basically not comparable.  

While Tony O's injury seems like it was more straight-forward (with a cause and a date), I'm guessing that had the internet (TD) been around, lots of speculation would have ruled the day.  People were also more willing to accept the explanation that had been offered.  Imagine what the speculation on the Tony Conigliaro injury would have been.  Now, everybody's an expert and knows more than the people who are paid to do these jobs.  That's not directed at you at all. It's unfortunately just fact -- for all of us, including me most of the time. 

I think we are dreaming if we think Buxton will see the outfield this season, and I'm guessing that next season is 50/50 at best.  He's immensely more valuable when he can play CF, but if he can only do it for a few games before his knee(s?) break down and he's out for the rest of the season it doesn't really seem worth it.  People who are much smarter than I am about medicine and baseball are going to make those decisions, and that's how it should be. 

[Craig Arko]

2 hours ago, FlyingFinn said:

That was clearly said in April by Rocco on the pregame radio show for the Twins. That changed in May to "we will reevaluate in June." So the date was moved back and terminology changed from scheduled to reevaluated. So plans have changed or not improved as expected early in the season.

So, adjusting to changing realities is now a bad thing. Darwin just made a triple gainer with a half-twist in his grave (in Westminster Abbey, I visited it).

[AlGoreRythm]

I totally get where the "I want Buxton in CF" crowd is coming from.

We all miss watching him out there. But are y'all watching the games? He is obviously not anywhere near 100% and there's probably little hope he ever gets back to 100% of what he was in 2017.

We can be disappointed or even angry, but getting angry with the FO or Rocco or Buxton, or other fans for that matter, doesn't make anything better, even if you find catharsis in venting on TD.

We live in a world where Buxton's knees prohibit him from being physically well enough to pay the outfield. Being mad about it or at others doesn't change it, thinking you know better than the staff the Twins pay to make those decisions doesn't change it, though it probably means you're wrong.

Best thing you can do is try living in the reality we have and try to enjoy the frustration that is Twins fandom or stop following a team that will disappoint you more often than not.

Go become a Dodgers fan or something, there's usually plenty to cheer about with bigger market teams.

[Squirrel]

3 hours ago, Parfigliano said:

Also what would/could the Twins get for a guy who can only DH and is K prone?

Exactly, which is why he isn’t being traded

[KirbyDome89]

11 hours ago, wabene said:

I would say the reason they haven't played him in center is because they think it could cause further, irreparable, damage. 

Defensive innings will destroy his knee, but sprinting at full speed and diving on the bases gets the green light. Laughable. 

[wabene]

13 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Defensive innings will destroy his knee, but sprinting at full speed and diving on the bases gets the green light. Laughable. 

Are you actually laughing? I hope so. But yes I get that you will express your opinion on this subject you have limited knowledge of. Ok now I'm laughing, lol.