Rays 7, Twins 0: Twins Take an Extra Off-Day in St. Pete

[Dave Overlund]

1 hour ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Why hasn't the pohlads said enough is enough and this isn't the game of baseball that the fans want  ??? 

I took this photo during Sunday's game. A picture perfect June afternoon, first place against second place. The entire outfield is completely empty. 

The fans are letting their money do the talking. It isn't the stadium, it isn't Minneapolis, it's just boring, robotic baseball with little energy. Something has to give. 

[Doctor Wu]

37 minutes ago, Dave Overlund said:

The Twins are averaging 10.25 K's per game. Luis Arraez has struck out 11 times all season. 

I am still not against the trade at all, but it does seem like Arraez is exactly what this team is missing. 

Yeah, in retrospect it would be nice to have Arraez still in the lineup, but then again, he'd be just another runner left on base. 

[umterp23]

13 minutes ago, Dave Overlund said:

I took this photo during Sunday's game. A picture perfect June afternoon, first place against second place. The entire outfield is completely empty. 

The fans are letting their money do the talking. It isn't the stadium, it isn't Minneapolis, it's just boring, robotic baseball with little energy. Something has to give. 

completely empty must have a new definition.  granted it shouldn't be this bad, but I get your point

 

[umterp23]

Rays are the best team in baseball.  So, yes result was to be expected and the Twins have their faults.  All stats lead to a slow death by 1,500 K's the rest of the year, but everyone has to play the Rays.  So good for us to get this over with early in June

[roger]

Watched the entire game last night and was as depressed as have ever been watching the Twins.

Appears that Varland got outta whack after the ump blew the call giving Raley a lead off triple.  Don't misunderstand, I am not saying that call cost us the game.  But it did seem to rattle him.  Was thinking about Raley a lot last night and couldn't remember what the Twins got when he was traded.  I think he was a throw in, but many of us thought the kid could play.

What was most discouraging is that there aren't a lot of big, well known names in that Rays lineup.  I don't follow the game like I used to, but other than Franco and Raley, I didn't know anyone. 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am assuming their payroll remains towards the bottom of baseball.  Yet, they have the best record in the game.  Why?  They don't strike out, they put the ball in play and come thru in the clutch.  Isn't that three important aspects of the game the Twins don't do?  

Why don't the Twins do so many of the things that win games?  Only answer I can think of is coaching.  I refuse to believe that all these guys with the talent to make it to the big leagues can't do what it takes to win.  That is unless the coaching they get doesn't emphasize it.  So add me to the list that believes the entire coaching staff, top on down, needs to go.  Will agree with the above comments that you don't do it until the off-season, but it has to happen.  And if the FO doesn't realize that, then young Pohlad needs to make changes there also.

As we go thru the last 3+ months of the season, I pray that AK and Lewis have the will power to not allow all these bad habits/coaching destroy what should be phenomenal careers,

[Doctor Wu]

Just now, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

I am absolutely amazed by the Rays.  How does this team consistently have low payrolls and continue to shine.  They are at 75MM this year compared to the Twins at 156MM.  How does this happen every year?  I thought plucking Rocco from the Rays was going to help but apparently not.

Maybe our best option for spending money is to buy out the Ray's FO personnel and staff and lower the payroll.  I jest here but there must be something in the water down in Tampa.

The Rays are sure doing something right. Every year they end up with a bunch of no-names in their bullpen and continue to win games. And they also seem to find an outlier like Raley to stick in the lineup and produce well too. 

[David Maro]

Turned this one off when 33 million dollar boy stood in the box watching his liner to left stay in the yard. Then Solano takes the center fielder falling backwards and 33 million dollar boy still standing on 2nd. A real manager would have said I've seen enough and put him on the bench. I did see that 33 million dollar boy also had 25% of the strike outs.

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, Dave Overlund said:

The Twins are averaging 10.25 K's per game. Luis Arraez has struck out 11 times all season. 

I am still not against the trade at all, but it does seem like Arraez is exactly what this team is missing. 

Arraez alone doesn’t do it, though. He didn’t last year, he wouldn’t have this year. One player isn’t the answer.

[Whitey333]

Someone said the Twins offense was pathetic yesterday because Buxton and Gallo weren't in the lineup?  Have you seen them help the team in the lineup?  Sure they have hit a few Homer's between them.  But very few RBI.  Gallo is hitting .188 striking out at 39% of time.  Buxton, has hit .177 since May 1.  Hus strikeout rate is over 38%.  They have been automatic outs most if the time.  This team is so outclassed by Tampa it's laughable.  People say we'll we are still in first place.  Really?  Get serious.  This team shows no life or spank.  It hasn't over the past three years now.  This a very boring team playing very boring baseball whomever us in the lineup. 

[DJL44]

I wanted the Twins to sign Eflin but it sounds like he took a hometown discount to play near home in Orlando.

[Woof Bronzer]

45 minutes ago, Dave Overlund said:

I took this photo during Sunday's game. A picture perfect June afternoon, first place against second place. The entire outfield is completely empty. 

The fans are letting their money do the talking. It isn't the stadium, it isn't Minneapolis, it's just boring, robotic baseball with little energy. Something has to give. 

Sadly a summer of photos like this may be fans only hope for change.  

[Dave Overlund]

2 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Arraez alone doesn’t do it, though. He didn’t last year, he wouldn’t have this year. One player isn’t the answer.

What is the answer?

[USAFChief]

11 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Arraez alone doesn’t do it, though. He didn’t last year, he wouldn’t have this year. One player isn’t the answer.

One player is part of the answer though. A .450 OBP and .900 OPS would absolutely help ANY offense. 

 

"Arraez wouldn't do it by himself" is a nice strawman, though. 

 

It's ok to admit we miss Arraez. Even if we understand the trade, or even liked it.

And OK to consider the possibility the Twins, to date, would be better had they not made the trade.

[John Belinski]

11 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

It's really hard to comment in such a frustrating time. What about the hottest hitter that we sent down and continues to be hot in St Paul? Wallner. Do we wait until he cools off before we call him up.  

Just do not understand why Wallner is not being called up?  Twins need hitters and Wallner would seem to be the player that could help them.

[LastOnePicked]

2 hours ago, CRF said:

The players that we're counting on to lead this team and perform well...have been complete disappointments so far. What is the core reason for all of this?

I think the main problem is this - there's no one to get behind on this team. There's no "big dog" with a big bite. This FO has built around a perennially-injured former centerfielder, and then supplemented him with a former superstar SS who couldn't pass an offseason signing physical for other ballclubs.

I don't like saying this about players I like, but you can't build around players who can't take the field or lead the charge. And with a milquetoast manager, there's no one for younger players to get inspired by or to at least have their yips diverted or distracted.

[John Belinski]

11 hours ago, PDX Twin said:

And it gets worse going forward.

Between strikeouts and injuries, Byron Albatross provides little value and is being paid $15m per year for another half-decade. Carlos Albatross makes $33.3m for a similar time and mostly just strikes out and grounds into double plays.

This team has two strikes against it for the next five years. And that's not counting the non-trivial likelihood that the $20+m that Pablo Lopez makes starting in two years ends up paying for disappointing performances, or even for a pitcher sidelined by injuries.

Twins fans had better hope that their kids all turn into superstars (and several might!), because they won't be able to afford anything more expensive.

It is hard to support the front office of the Twins with all the questionable moves they have made recently.  Over paying Correa, extending Lopez, extending Rocco, trading our best hitter for .500 pitcher, sending Wallner down and many more moves. Can not think of one really good move that the front office has made in last 6 months that helped the Twins.

[John Belinski]

1 hour ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

I am absolutely amazed by the Rays.  How does this team consistently have low payrolls and continue to shine.  They are at 75MM this year compared to the Twins at 156MM.  How does this happen every year?  I thought plucking Rocco from the Rays was going to help but apparently not.

Maybe our best option for spending money is to buy out the Ray's FO personnel and staff and lower the payroll.  I jest here but there must be something in the water down in Tampa.

The Rays have a good front office and good manager something the Twins do not have. The Rays do not overpay players like Buxton and Correa plus bring up young players from minors. Without leadership the Twins will continue to be, at best, a .500 club.

[Blyleven2011]

1 hour ago, Dave Overlund said:

The Twins are averaging 10.25 K's per game. Luis Arraez has struck out 11 times all season. 

I am still not against the trade at all, but it does seem like Arraez is exactly what this team is missing. 

Look at arraez's career stats ,,, 

I'm pretty sure he has 50 something walks with only 40 something strikeouts  ....

Arreaz is a major leaguer and won a batting title last season  ...

Only a hand full of players in the American league hit over 300 last year , 2 are gone that I know of , Arraez and Bogaerts , Judge was another one  , he might win the triple crown this year with an average under 300  , that would be pathetic  , what would be more pathetic is if Judge goes into the hall of fame with accolades of a triple crown and a average under 300 ...

Baseball might just have to ammend it ruling and change it to a triple crown winner has to hit 300 ,,, 

Baseball sure has changed , good hitters hit and bad hitters need not apply  ...

 

[Heiny]

Just my opinion, but let's start with the basics.  We have a very talented team with Buxton, Correa, Kirilloff, Larnach, Lewis, Polanco, and others in peripheral roles that are all performing well below their talent level.  I'm not seeing alot of hustle.  Situational hitting has been horrible.  It looks to me that we need a phisophy change on offense.   Buxton at DH is not working.  Yes, he has been in the lineup more, but to what end?  He slides into second and gets up slow, runs into second baseman, gets drilled in the ribs by a pitch, and strikes out at an extremely high rate.  I say put him in center and take what you get. If he gets injured, well he gets injured.  And he wants to play defense.  Correa is not playing to his capabilities.  Why?  Team strikeouts are just disgusting.  Do we need to make changes in the coaching staff?  I don't think that's the answer.  I just think we need to change the way we are approaching our at bats.  Yes, that is going to have to come from the manager and coaching staff, but we are not making adjustments to the poor perfomance to date.  Will we realize this as a team?  It's not too late.  We are still in first place, but that is not going to last if we don't make some changes.  I will continue to watch the games and root for my team because I am a die hard, but everything has its limits.  I am fast becoming disgusted.  You can't win games without scoring runs.

[MABB1959]

3 hours ago, wabene said:

For a guy who doesn't want to see anybody lose their jobs, your plan sure involves many getting fired.

Firing a staff mid-season is a desperation move. If you were in a upper management meeting and suggested this for a team in first place, you might find yourself heading to human resources, lol.

The time for a major change of course is in the off-season. Constant clamoring for people's heads during the season, especially a team in the Twins position, is just hystrionics. 

I have seen other Managers fired during the season and I do hate for anyone to lose their jobs.  Just saying it seems like we are in desperation now over some of the decisions made.  This is just my opinion and you don't need to be so snarky.

First place in the ALC is not much to hang your hat on and the way the last few weeks have went we may not be there for long

[MABB1959]

31 minutes ago, Heiny said:

Just my opinion, but let's start with the basics.  We have a very talented team with Buxton, Correa, Kirilloff, Larnach, Lewis, Polanco, and others in peripheral roles that are all performing well below their talent level.  I'm not seeing alot of hustle.  Situational hitting has been horrible.  It looks to me that we need a phisophy change on offense.   Buxton at DH is not working.  Yes, he has been in the lineup more, but to what end?  He slides into second and gets up slow, runs into second baseman, gets drilled in the ribs by a pitch, and strikes out at an extremely high rate.  I say put him in center and take what you get. If he gets injured, well he gets injured.  And he wants to play defense.  Correa is not playing to his capabilities.  Why?  Team strikeouts are just disgusting.  Do we need to make changes in the coaching staff?  I don't think that's the answer.  I just think we need to change the way we are approaching our at bats.  Yes, that is going to have to come from the manager and coaching staff, but we are not making adjustments to the poor perfomance to date.  Will we realize this as a team?  It's not too late.  We are still in first place, but that is not going to last if we don't make some changes.  I will continue to watch the games and root for my team because I am a die hard, but everything has its limits.  I am fast becoming disgusted.  You can't win games without scoring runs.

They seem to make the coaching changes in the wrong place (hitting coach, bench coach, pitching coach) over and over again with no results.  Time to move it up a level if they want to try to salvage this season.

[MABB1959]

28 minutes ago, MABB1959 said:

I have seen other Managers fired during the season and I do hate for anyone to lose their jobs.  Just saying it seems like we are in desperation now over some of the decisions made.  This is just my opinion and you don't need to be so snarky.

First place in the ALC is not much to hang your hat on and the way the last few weeks have went we may not be there for long

We are 9th in the AL and would be almost 5 games out of the Wild Card.  All of the ALC teams are way down in the Wild Card standing it is almost pathetic

[RickOShea]

Putting performance aside for just a moment, the one thing this Twins team lacks is a bit of swagger.  A couple of guys show it, but then don't back it up with their performance.  But just look at the team when the camera pans the dugout. Most of them look like they just sat through watching  "Old Yeller".  Kepler, looks like he's gonna cry (as well he should), Kiriloff looks depressed and the bullpen guys look like deer staring into headlights.  Most of the guys look embarrassed wearing the vest and playing with the toy fishing rod.  Come on, get tough, let's see some 'marbles'.  Maybe some intensity can jump start these guys.  This is a terrible division.  It's there for the taking.  

Rocco, let these guys play.  Ok, if they're hurt take them out, but don't automatically make a move and escort back them to the dugout.  Show some grit, and employ some basic strategy that has been around for years.  What you're doing now is not working.

[sjunisu]

3 hours ago, USAFChief said:

One player is part of the answer though. A .450 OBP and .900 OPS would absolutely help ANY offense. 

 

"Arraez wouldn't do it by himself" is a nice strawman, though. 

 

It's ok to admit we miss Arraez. Even if we understand the trade, or even liked it.

And OK to consider the possibility the Twins, to date, would be better had they not made the trade.

I would take it a step further.  Consider the possibility of the Twins if none of the Trades/Moves Falvine have made occurred.  No Rocco, Molitor as manager.  One more step - drafting the BPA (by MLB ranking service) in 2019/2020 instead of Cavaco and Sabato. Heck, even BPA for every pick in every draft the last six years.

Basically taking the FO out of the equation the last 6 years and go on autopilot.  No Donaldson deal, No Buxton extension, No Correa signing, etc...  Only thing missed would be Joe Ryan.  One move.  Certainly would not be any worse and would have more minor league talent.

[wabene]

1 hour ago, MABB1959 said:

I have seen other Managers fired during the season and I do hate for anyone to lose their jobs.  Just saying it seems like we are in desperation now over some of the decisions made.  This is just my opinion and you don't need to be so snarky.

First place in the ALC is not much to hang your hat on and the way the last few weeks have went we may not be there for long

Sorry didn't mean to be snarky and my comment wasn't directed solely at you, should have made that clear.

[Blyleven2011]

4 hours ago, roger said:

Watched the entire game last night and was as depressed as have ever been watching the Twins.

Appears that Varland got outta whack after the ump blew the call giving Raley a lead off triple.  Don't misunderstand, I am not saying that call cost us the game.  But it did seem to rattle him.  Was thinking about Raley a lot last night and couldn't remember what the Twins got when he was traded.  I think he was a throw in, but many of us thought the kid could play.

What was most discouraging is that there aren't a lot of big, well known names in that Rays lineup.  I don't follow the game like I used to, but other than Franco and Raley, I didn't know anyone. 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am assuming their payroll remains towards the bottom of baseball.  Yet, they have the best record in the game.  Why?  They don't strike out, they put the ball in play and come thru in the clutch.  Isn't that three important aspects of the game the Twins don't do?  

Why don't the Twins do so many of the things that win games?  Only answer I can think of is coaching.  I refuse to believe that all these guys with the talent to make it to the big leagues can't do what it takes to win.  That is unless the coaching they get doesn't emphasize it.  So add me to the list that believes the entire coaching staff, top on down, needs to go.  Will agree with the above comments that you don't do it until the off-season, but it has to happen.  And if the FO doesn't realize that, then young Pohlad needs to make changes there also.

As we go thru the last 3+ months of the season, I pray that AK and Lewis have the will power to not allow all these bad habits/coaching destroy what should be phenomenal careers,

We got Raley in the dozier trade to dodgers and then traded him back with graterol to dodgers for maeda ...

Raley might have had a cup of coffee with the dodgers  Last year or two years ago too .

[roger]

13 minutes ago, Blyleven2011 said:

We got Raley in the dozier trade to dodgers and then traded him back with graterol to dodgers for maeda ...

Raley might have had a cup of coffee with the dodgers  Last year or two years ago too .

Thanks.  Was thinking it may have been part of a Dodgers trade, didn't realize it was both coming and going.  Loved his production at Rochester (AAA) those few months he was with the Twins.

[Blyleven2011]

3 hours ago, John Belinski said:

The Rays have a good front office and good manager something the Twins do not have. The Rays do not overpay players like Buxton and Correa plus bring up young players from minors. Without leadership the Twins will continue to be, at best, a .500 club.

Without leadership  and ACCOUNTABILITY  the twins will continue to fail   , Rocco keeps saying the players have skills  but continue to blunder and blunder every aspect of the game , running  bases , cut off throws , wrong base  , no hit and run , not many stolen bases and so on ...

ROCCO  , I know your listening and don't care what others are saying ,  but you got to keep reminding these players To play the game the right way , ROCCO ITS UP TO YOU TO SHOW US THAT THESE PLAYERS HAVE THE SKILLS YOU SAY THEY HAVE  ...

SINCE YOU LIKE PAPER MAYBE COMMUNICATE WITH A PERSONAL MEMO PRINTED OUT ON PAPER FOR EACH PLAYER TO READ  OF WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE FOR THEM TO IMPROVE ON  , or remind them that it's easy to get to the majors but harder to stay , you got to play the game hard like Buxton once did but it looks like that has been taken away from him and the FANS ...

[roger]

4 hours ago, Squirrel said:

Arraez alone doesn’t do it, though. He didn’t last year, he wouldn’t have this year. One player isn’t the answer.

Agree 100% with what you are saying, Squirrel.  But had they kept Arraez they would be one player closer to the answer.  And a guy getting on base over 40% of the time is a great start to answering the call.

[Blyleven2011]

4 minutes ago, roger said:

Thanks.  Was thinking it may have been part of a Dodgers trade, didn't realize it was both coming and going.  Loved his production at Rochester (AAA) those few months he was with the Twins.

You betcha  and your welcome  , boy has last night twins / Rays  game got the twins fans rattled , uncompetitive game against a good team we weren't even close  ...

Not even close as I'm shaking my head in disbelief that we are really this bad  ... 

It's not tough being a twins fan ,  but It's tough to watch them ,   but I do ...