Miller: Several teams pursuing Berríos

[mike8791]

And then there were none!   Don't want to be an alarmist but recent report says Dodgers acquiring Danny Duffy.  Ouch!  Can't imagine them still having interest in Berrios.   Who's left?  Hope the Wonder Boys aren't outsmarting themselves again.  A Berrios trade has to happen, as he will most definitely will not be resigned.  So who's left with prospects that could speed up a Twin's turnaround in 2022?  

[TNtwins85]

4 minutes ago, mike8791 said:

And then there were none!   Don't want to be an alarmist but recent report says Dodgers acquiring Danny Duffy.  Ouch!  Can't imagine them still having interest in Berrios.   Who's left?  Hope the Wonder Boys aren't outsmarting themselves again.  A Berrios trade has to happen, as he will most definitely will not be resigned.  So who's left with prospects that could speed up a Twin's turnaround in 2022?  

I never really thought the dodgers were “in” on Berrios. We’ll see. If scherzer goes to San Diego I think the other teams shift to Berrios. I really wanted the Padres to land him as they seem the most desperate and have the prospects. We’ll see if SD gets Mad Max but I’m sure everything is about to shift to the Berrios market once Max has found a destination 

[Steve71]

Duffy is on the IL and in no way helps out the Dodgers SP rotation now, when they need it.

Berrios is slated to pitch Friday night.  Still time for him to catch a flight to the left coast.

Not saying the Dodgers will trade for Berrios, but Duffy should have nothing to do with that decision.

[KirbyHawk75]

I just don't trust Falvey anymore.  

[wyowib]

Isn't it reported that Duffy was had for a PTBNL, hasn't come back from injury yet. If Padres get Max and this is the only move the Dodgers make that's quite the gamble that Kershaw and Duffy come back with no issues.  I don't think that's the Dodgers thinking, seems like a depth move.  Not saying they pony up with another move but I don't think they view Duffy as the be-all-end-all answer.  Doesn't fit their MO.

[MN_ExPat]

7 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Sounds like Seattle is also looking at bats. Wonder if there's a way to package Berrios and one of our hitters to bring back Hancock and Kirby. Can't imagine Seattle would have any desire to trade either, let alone both, but if that's the only other deal the Twins make this season I'd be happy with those 4 arms (these 2 plus the 2 from Cruz trade) being what we added to the farm.

Note: This isn't realistic. The Mariners aren't shipping out both guys. But this is my 1 outrageous dream-of-a-trade-to-make-this-season-better idea.

Given Jerry DiPoto’s trade history, I honestly believe he would actually trade both Kirby and Hancock for Berrios. 
 

Plus how cool would it be to have the Kirby Hancock trade ? (.get it!?…. Nothing?…. Crickets).

[Joey P]

I think some of us are forgetting that Berrios is still under contract for next year. I mean that in the sense, the Twins will compete for the division next year. We are far to talented not to. Therefore, there is nothing lost by failing to trade Berrios. The Twins are going to be competitive for years to come. So what if we lose him to FA next year. If it comes on the coattails of a deep playoff run, who cares? The Twins do not NEED to sell Berrios. However, if we really find a good deal, one where we get a pitcher of his caliber who is major league ready, plus some other prospects, then by all means go for it. But there is no reason to panic if he fails to move. I just hope that all the focus on him is not unduly distracting our FO from all the other players on expiring contracts that we SHOULD move, if we can. 

[Mike Sixel]

17 minutes ago, KirbyHawk75 said:

I just don't trust Falvey anymore.  

Isn't a bit early for that? 

[ashbury]

11 minutes ago, MN_ExPat said:

Plus how cool would it be to have the Kirby Hancock trade ? (.get it!?…. Nothing?…. Crickets).

Approves:

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

[KirbyHawk75]

I have actually been spending a lot of time reading about top prospects for other teams.  It is fun.  

[Twodogs]

6 hours ago, bean5302 said:

Prospects are great, but teams competing for a World Series teams do not count on them to lead the way. Starting pitchers are always viewed with skepticism until they prove it at the MLB level, and you can bet no team expecting to compete for a World Series is counting on any of their pitching prospects leading the way so even if the Twins farm system was absolutely stacked, I think it would be foolhardy to count on prospects carrying the heavy load.

When teams sign players in free agency, I think it should always be expected they're going to overpay relative to the cost of pre-arbitration and arbitration players. Also, I think it's fair to "overpay" when you fail to develop talent, but you still want to compete while paying your young players peanuts relative to their production. After all, for their first 6 years at the MLB level, players are almost always dramatically underpaid.

• When Justin Moreneau won the MVP in 2006, he made $385,000.
• Joe Mauer, who had a better year than Morneau in 2006, only made $400,000.
• Mike Trout made $1,000,000 in 2014 after winning RoY in 2012 and placing 2nd in MVP voting in 2012 and 2013.
• Johan Santana won his first Cy Young in 2004 while making $1,600,000.

There are at least 5 pitchers better than Berrios slated to hit free agency at the end of this year and the Twins should have enormous payroll capacity to work with.

San Diego is a great example.  They have one of the best pitching prospects in all of baseball in Gore, but look at how many pitchers they brought in during the off season.  They brought in enough to the point where they don't need Gore.  Teams looking to go after the world Series don't usually want to bank on rookies.

[Twodogs]

1 hour ago, TNtwins85 said:

When are all you on the keep Berrios train gonna realize he’s not signing here. Stop being delusional. He wants top dollar on the open market. Now is his peak value. Anytime after the deadline his value is just gonna decline. Tell yourself this is a good thing. This is a great opportunity for the twins. 

Yes as with all AAA teams their players always have to move on to Major league teams eventually.

[RonCoomersOPS]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Isn't a bit early for that? 

I dunno, I find the all the hyperventilating to be kind of amusing and a nice break from Twitter today.

[TNtwins85]

35 minutes ago, Twodogs said:

San Diego is a great example.  They have one of the best pitching prospects in all of baseball in Gore, but look at how many pitchers they brought in during the off season.  They brought in enough to the point where they don't need Gore.  Teams looking to go after the world Series don't usually want to bank on rookies.

Isn’t it almost every year though some young prospect or rookie takes over a few games in the post season and becomes a star? Andrew Jones, k-rod,ellsbury, wacha, last year arrozarena. The young guys usually don’t get you there or carry you through the postseason but it’s good to have those hot prospects on your postseason roster.

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Isn't a bit early for that? 

Plus Levine is the GM. I mean, maybe his role is different than all the other GMs, but if not, this seems like his territory.

[TNtwins85]

Dodgers going all in for Scherzer and Turner. If that deal happens Berrios “is” going to San Diego!!! Maybe him and someone else

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/07/dodgers-making-significant-progress-on-deal-to-acquire-max-scherzer-trea-turner.html

[Steve71]

San Diego better get Berrios and Donaldson to compete with LA, no?

[PseudoSABR]

3 minutes ago, Steve71 said:

San Diego better get Berrios and Donaldson to compete with LA, no?

Where will Donaldson play for the Padres? Are we getting Hosmer back (no thanks) in this scenario.

[Don't Feed the Greed Guy]

9 hours ago, Dodecahedron said:

Sure, but you have to consider the Twins don't have the prospects to field a good pitching staff next year, and it looks like if the Twins want to bring in a free agent or two they will need to overpay them.  

This just doesn't seem like the right moment to send away Berrios, even if he only has a year and half left with the Twins.  With Berrios being the only starter of any reputation on the team, sure others want him.  But the Twins would be making their situation a lot worse over the long haul if they get rid of him now.

What's to say the Twins can't sign Berrios in 2023? Trade him now, build payroll flexibility for 2023, and let the White Sox dominate the Central for another year. Berrios may want to return in 2023 after a taste elsewhere. Also, we may have a much better rotation in 2023, depending upon the pitchers we aquire by trading him and Cruz now.

[Brock Beauchamp]

4 minutes ago, PseudoSABR said:

Where will Donaldson play for the Padres? Are we getting Hosmer back (no thanks) in this scenario.

It would be interesting to see what kind of deal could be worked up for a Donaldson/Hosmer swap. Donaldson is owed $51.5m guaranteed, Hosmer is owed $60m guaranteed (assuming he doesn't opt out after 2022, a longshot at this point).

Obviously, some prospects would have to come back to Minnesota but how many and of what quality?

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

22 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

It would be interesting to see what kind of deal could be worked up for a Donaldson/Hosmer swap. Donaldson is owed $51.5m guaranteed, Hosmer is owed $60m guaranteed (assuming he doesn't opt out after 2022, a longshot at this point).

Obviously, some prospects would have to come back to Minnesota but how many and of what quality?

The only reason the Twins would do that deal is to buy prospects, right? Donaldson is more valuable than Hosmer, probably on both sides of the ball but certainly in the field, and if blocking a younger player at 3B is your concern, that certainly seems to apply at 1B/DH where Hosmer would play, too. So I'd think the prospects coming back might be only 1 or 2 players, but their value would be significant.

[Brock Beauchamp]

3 minutes ago, whosafraidofluigirussolo said:

The only reason the Twins would do that deal is to buy prospects, right? Donaldson is more valuable than Hosmer, probably on both sides of the ball but certainly in the field, and if blocking a younger player at 3B is your concern, that certainly seems to apply at 1B/DH where Hosmer would play, too. So I'd think the prospects coming back might be only 1 or 2 players, but their value would be significant.

The Twins would want the prospects, yes. It wouldn’t be a performance-based trade from their their side. 

[RpR]

1 hour ago, TNtwins85 said:

Isn’t it almost every year though some young prospect or rookie takes over a few games in the post season and becomes a star? Andrew Jones, k-rod,ellsbury, wacha, last year arrozarena. The young guys usually don’t get you there or carry you through the postseason but it’s good to have those hot prospects on your postseason roster.

Yeah , what's his name that started a game for the Twins last year?

[Twodogs]

1 hour ago, TNtwins85 said:

Isn’t it almost every year though some young prospect or rookie takes over a few games in the post season and becomes a star? Andrew Jones, k-rod,ellsbury, wacha, last year arrozarena. The young guys usually don’t get you there or carry you through the postseason but it’s good to have those hot prospects on your postseason roster.

Yeah for sure no doubt, however those guys usually come in and add something to an already veteran roster that got the team there in the first place.  Usually, those teams in the post season runs to the WS didn't get rid of all of their main guys the year before.  Plus many of these guys have been playing together for a long time, like Buxton, Kepler, Berrios, Polanco, Rosario etc.... They made it through the system together.  So to start replacing one here and there often will break up the chemistry that the team once had.  So that is why when people talk about competing next year then most likely you won't compete by adding a bunch of new faces every year.  If they trade Berrios they might as well get rid of the whole team and start over with a new core that have been playing together while they have been on the way up which at that point it is once again a 3 or 4 year rebuild.  So I say trade the guys that are on expiring contracts but keep your core if you want to compete.  I realize that all of these guys are supposed to be professionals, but as mid 20 year old guys you just don't know what it might do to them as human beings to see their friends discarded here and there.  So if that's what you're going to do then do it 100% and give up on the next 3 or so years.  If you don't want to do that then getting rid of Berrios right now is not the answer.

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, Don't Feed the Greed Guy said:

What's to say the Twins can't sign Berrios in 2023?

(Sorry.)

[TNtwins85]

21 minutes ago, Twodogs said:

Yeah for sure no doubt, however those guys usually come in and add something to an already veteran roster that got the team there in the first place.  Usually, those teams in the post season runs to the WS didn't get rid of all of their main guys the year before.  Plus many of these guys have been playing together for a long time, like Buxton, Kepler, Berrios, Polanco, Rosario etc.... They made it through the system together.  So to start replacing one here and there often will break up the chemistry that the team once had.  So that is why when people talk about competing next year then most likely you won't compete by adding a bunch of new faces every year.  If they trade Berrios they might as well get rid of the whole team and start over with a new core that have been playing together while they have been on the way up which at that point it is once again a 3 or 4 year rebuild.  So I say trade the guys that are on expiring contracts but keep your core if you want to compete.  I realize that all of these guys are supposed to be professionals, but as mid 20 year old guys you just don't know what it might do to them as human beings to see their friends discarded here and there.  So if that's what you're going to do then do it 100% and give up on the next 3 or so years.  If you don't want to do that then getting rid of Berrios right now is not the answer.

So because they’re trading one guy who we obviously are not going to sign because he wants top dollar on the market we should just trade everybody? The fact that these guys are negotiating till the bitter end for every last dollar shows you that these guys understand that mlb is a business. If these guys are getting upset that guy A or guy B is getting traded in order to make the team hopefully better in years to come then they are doing themselves a massive disservice. Not only to themselves but to the team ultimately. If your coworker leaves to go to another company in order to better his life that’s gonna make you not want to work as hard instead of trying to work harder to gain that same job yourself? You make it sound like we’re just giving up on him when actually the twins are trying to better themselves when the inevitable is staring them in the face.

[TheLeviathan]

I dig that the Blue Jays are still in this.  They have some nice pitching and infield options that fit well with this team.  Not a pure shortstop, but some dudes that are appealing.

But a deal to San Diego with Abrams as the centerpiece is my favorite option.

[Twodogs]

1 hour ago, TNtwins85 said:

So because they’re trading one guy who we obviously are not going to sign because he wants top dollar on the market we should just trade everybody? The fact that these guys are negotiating till the bitter end for every last dollar shows you that these guys understand that mlb is a business. If these guys are getting upset that guy A or guy B is getting traded in order to make the team hopefully better in years to come then they are doing themselves a massive disservice. Not only to themselves but to the team ultimately. If your coworker leaves to go to another company in order to better his life that’s gonna make you not want to work as hard instead of trying to work harder to gain that same job yourself? You make it sound like we’re just giving up on him when actually the twins are trying to better themselves when the inevitable is staring them in the face.

You are kinda saying exactly what I am saying only differently.  Yeah if my co-worker left the company that I work for to better himself, it will depend on why he is leaving.  If he is forced to leave to better himself you better bet on it that I'm going to work my ass off too so I can get the hell out of there to better myself too.  See what I'm saying?  It means that the company that we are currently working for is failing if it is unable to keep it's employees, and it's employees have to leave in order to better themselves then everyone who comes to work there won't really be thinking about the company but will be thinking about themselves so they can get out of that company and into a better one.  It kind of creates the type of environment where everyone who comes to work for that company is using it as a stepping stone and not as a destination company.  That was a great example you used to prove both of our points.  I get it, I'm overreacting a little to say that the twins might as well get rid of everyone, but if you get rid of everyone and start over the twins will be near the bottom of the league next year and probably another year or two or three.  If the twins don't get rid of everyone but they get rid of their best starting pitcher they will be near the bottom of the league next year and probably another year or two after that again.  So why keep guys around that are going to cost money when you are going to be near the bottom of the league anyway? Might as well start over and start preparing a bunch of new guys to play together.

[RaoulDuke]

Berrios isn't going to sign anything team friendly before hand and he will get an offer the Twins won't match when his free agency comes.  It is time to trade him. 

Scherzer has now moved for a haul and Jose is the best arm available in an extreme sellers market.

Sell him to the highest bidder! 

My money is on San Diego who is going to have to make up a lot of ground with Scherzer/ Turner/ Duffy all going to LA.  Bos/ Sea/ TB/ SF/ NYY all seem to be in the mix bidding against each other. 

Berrios is a good #2 with an extra year of control, in this market they should be able to get a pitching prospect with more than that upside in addition to another truly valuable piece(s).  Zero guarantee those guys work out but its a better return than the draft pick from giving him a qualifying offer when he hits free agency.