Buxton: "Pissed" at Twins for No Call-Up Decision in 9/2018

[KirbyDome89]

 

I pretty much agree with you there.  I never understood why they rushed him back.  The only thing I could think of at the time is maybe the injury just wasn't that bad.  That is the part of this deal that doesn't look good to me in hindsight.  

 

If they rushed him back and then as a consequence his service time fell short that ends up looking pretty bad to me.  I have no idea what information they had when making those decisions but if they didn't have Byrons best interests in mind then that seems like negligent behavior IMO.  If Byron felt he was OK and was pushing to get back and proved he could play with it then that decision is on him.  I don't know how that played out.

 

I hate that he lost the year of service time but as I have stated things haven't worked as planned for either side so far so I can see how things ended up this way.

At the end of the day Buxton consented to coming back early. Neither he nor the Twins were completely wrong; Buxton, even at 80%, still made the defense considerably better, but it was evident early on that he was affected at the plate. The team continued to trot him out there. I don't have a huge issue with bringing him back too soon, so much as I do with how his subsequent performance was assessed and what the early call up allowed the team to do down the line. 

 

Rushing him up was no doubt a mistake, albeit an innocent one, but leveraging that into essentially stealing a FA year from Buxton is where things went off the rails. 

[KirbyDome89]

 

agreed 100%, but on the flip side, why eff with his service time if you don’t think he can hack it?

He’s had like 3 good months over 3 years. He’s been bad... so why screw around with his service time at all?

Buxton didn’t deserve to be up anymore than Field did. He was bad.

So I’m baffled, perplexed, puzzled, and dismayed. Why would Falvey pick this fight? Certainly Buxton won’t extend. Another season like the last and 2016, non-tender... The odds of seeing this through to the bitter end are low.



More service time brings back more value in trade. All this other nonsense is just driving up, or down trade value

I'm not as down on Buck but yeah I agree, there are definitely mixed signals being sent regarding what's said and what's done.

 

The Twins stated that Buxton had things he needed to work on, hence him being optioned to AAA in July. Then they cut his season short by a month and deprived him of a month's worth of MLB ABs..... 

 

Buxton is such an asset that the Twins were willing to potentially wreck a relationship with him to gain one more year of team control. They couldn't find developmental innings for him in September between Grossman, Cave, and Field getting OF starts.... 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I'm not as down on Buck but yeah I agree, there are definitely mixed signals being sent regarding what's said and what's done.

 

The Twins stated that Buxton had things he needed to work on, hence him being optioned to AAA in July. Then they cut his season short by a month and deprived him of a month's worth of MLB ABs.....

 

Buxton is such an asset that the Twins were willing to potentially wreck a relationship with him to gain one more year of team control. They couldn't find developmental innings for him in September between Grossman, Cave, and Field getting OF starts....

how does one work on hitting big league curveballs at home in September?

[TheLeviathan]

 

I can't speak for gunnarthor, but my position is that he's been a below-average hitter, but above-average defender, and roughly average MLBer overall. Obviously we all hope for better, but that's not necessarily a bad outcome either.

Also, your awful/putrid numbers are somewhat skewed by his debut. For 2016-2017, he was exactly even by your earlier criteria: 385 PA in average or better months, 385 PA in poor months. (Plus another 80 PA near average at .701 OPS, which could roughly offset his 94 bad PA from 2018.)

You need his debut 138 PA from 2015 to tip the scales toward the awful side, and I'm not sure we should weigh those equally. (And perhaps not coincidentally, his 2015 and 2018 were his least healthy MLB years, and account for an outsized share of his poor PAs.)

 

See, this is my problem though, people want to cherry pick segments of his time to make him look better.  And they also like to use the whole sample to make him look better.  The truth is that the Twins have invested 600 PAs in him in which he was a really awful player. 

 

Now, I admit my way of breaking it down has limitations too, but the point is a valid one IMO: he has been mostly bad in his time with the big league club.  Most of the games we have penciled him in he has been well below average.  He's just had some absolutely amazing stretches that have helped make the bottom line look a little better.  

 

That in no way makes me want to give up on him.  Quite the contrary, I still believe in him, but I've accepted that my belief in him is mostly unsupported by the facts and driven more by hope and the abundant talent the man has.  The facts say he's closer to Billy Hamilton than Mike Trout.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I don't think you're understanding how badly those small sample sizes affected his season numbers. 

 

Of course, this has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Buxton got less than 250 at bats last year at all levels combined and was sent home while players with worse performance weren't ****ed with b/c they didn't have service time considerations. The team screwed Buxton over several ways last year - including letting him play on an ****ed-up foot and then claiming that they let him play hurt in AAA - that i don't really understand anyone taking the teams side on this. Had the Twins shut him down in August, they would've had a better argument.

 

I don't care whose side you choose.  I believe this strategy could absolutely fail, but I also think it has a chance to succeed.

 

But your first sentence is exactly the opposite of the truth.  The small samples that skew his numbers are the three months where he was Babe Ruth.  That's the small sample that skews the numbers.

 

Again, the fact is, most of the time he's been in a Twins uniform - he's been a putrid hitter.  So much so that even his defense doesn't warrant keeping him in the lineup.  

[beckmt]

All players develop at a different rate.  Messing with Buxton's service time was the worst thing the Twins could have done.  Pohlad's have paid players who became the face of the franchise, for the Twins in the next 2 - 3 years this is Buxton.  Chances of keeping Sano if he becomes good are small, since opinion seems to be he wants to play on the east coast.

Twins behavior toward Buxton has created 2 or 3 outcomes.

1. Buxton never does hit well and becomes a  glove only 3rd or 4th outfielder, and probably hits FA in 4 years.

2. Buxton turns things around next year or the year after and one of two things happens

    a.  Agent tells Twins he is leaving after 6 years, so Twins have a choice and the only way to get full value(if they can) is to trade Buxton after year 4 or during year 5 (sell that to these posters and your fan base).

    b.  Twins have to give Buxton a Harper like contract based on 1 to 2 years and maybe an overpay to get him to stay.  This (like Mauer) handicaps your payroll to be competitive. 

 

This scenario could well get the FO fired,  was it worth the risk?  

Only way to justify this is if the FO knows he is  leaving when Buxton reaches FA.  We don't have the answer to that question. 

[Dr. Evil]

I find it unlikely that he might stay healthy and learn to hit at the major league level. Until both occur, I yawn at his hissy fit.

[Kelly Vance]

I piss off a lot of people. They eventually get over it. 

 

Buck, show up, shut up and PLAY 

[nytwinsfan]

 

He has excellent defense. I fail to see how his hitting was excellent. 90 out if a47 in wrc+ is abysmal. his .312 woba is near the bottom.

He was worth 3.5 fWAR in 511 PAs. That's excellent. His offense was around average for a CF, and his defense and baserunning were both exceptional/nearly unparalleled throughout the entire legal. That's an excellent player.

[Vanimal46]

I think there is virtually zero percent chance of a Buxton extension this winter. What would that even look like? Has any player ever signed an extension coming off a season as bad/lost as Buxton's 2018? There's just no salary figure for those FA years that would make sense for both parties right now.

No doubt. Let's start with both parties listening to one another, and agreeing on at least a couple of compromises for the next season. The marriage is lasting 4 full years...

[Rosterman]

Well, he could've signed a nice 4-5 year contract in the off-season, which looking at things now might've put him ahead, especially is he is the bad player he was in 2018 (but injured)

 

The joy for the twins is that prospects loom in the wings. The better news for the Twins is he may be hungry in 2019 to prove himself. As well Schoop, too.

 

But, hey, anyone catch that Lynn is getting $30 million for three years from Texas. A decent payday after a miserable 2018.

[Kelly Vance]

 

At the end of the day Buxton consented to coming back early. Neither he nor the Twins were completely wrong; Buxton, even at 80%, still made the defense considerably better, but it was evident early on that he was affected at the plate. The team continued to trot him out there. I don't have a huge issue with bringing him back too soon, so much as I do with how his subsequent performance was assessed and what the early call up allowed the team to do down the line. 

 

Rushing him up was no doubt a mistake, albeit an innocent one, but leveraging that into essentially stealing a FA year from Buxton is where things went off the rails. 

Well, I said the same thing

 and I said a call up with him agreeing to the one year extension at market value was the class thing to do.  But then, I am Class of 1974. They do things differently nowadays. 

 

Still, it shouldn't be an irreparable rift, if both sides want to work together.

 

I suspect, though, the Twins will say, "OK, Buck, show everyone you are elite, and we will pay you or shop you to someone who will."

 

Buck has to raise or call. If he raises, that means he must sign an extension. Name your price for two extra years, Buck, maybe with loaded incentives. 

 

Thing is, Buck, you got a shot to prove it weren't a fluke. Good luck, kid. Go get em. 

Tell us how many years and how many zeros. 

[old nurse]

 

He was worth 3.5 fWAR in 511 PAs. That's excellent. His offense was around average for a CF, and his defense and baserunning were both exceptional/nearly unparalleled throughout the entire legal. That's an excellent player.

That is relying on defensive metrics.  No one can argue that he is a fine defensive player.  Measuring it is a whole different issue. Can you explain why in 331 PA the year before his defensive rating was far worse. Same player

[old nurse]

 

 

Well, he could've signed a nice 4-5 year contract in the off-season, which looking at things now might've put him ahead, especially is he is the bad player he was in 2018 (but injured)

 

The joy for the twins is that prospects loom in the wings. The better news for the Twins is he may be hungry in 2019 to prove himself. As well Schoop, too.

 

But, hey, anyone catch that Lynn is getting $30 million for three years from Texas. A decent payday after a miserable 2018.

Roughly consistent back of rotation starter money. After a season of Colon, Gallardo and Minor Lynn looks a lot better.

[nytwinsfan]

 

That is relying on defensive metrics.  No one can argue that he is a fine defensive player.  Measuring it is a whole different issue. Can you explain why in 331 PA the year before his defensive rating was far worse. Same player

He was younger and less experienced, injuries, random chance?

 

In 2017 Bryce Harper had an 1.008 OPS, whereas in 2016 he had a .814 OPS. No one can argue that he is a fine offense player. Measuring it is a whole different issue. Can you explain why his offense the year before was far worse? Same player.

[old nurse]

 

He was younger and less experienced, injuries, random chance?

 

In 2017 Bryce Harper had an 1.008 OPS, whereas in 2016 he had a .814 OPS. No one can argue that he is a fine offense player. Measuring it is a whole different issue. Can you explain why his offense the year before was far worse? Same player.

Offense is measured without subjective data.  A few less HR and doubles per at bat, more K%   You did not explain the difference in Buxton's defense. You can't.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

 

 

 

They f***** him. Full stop. He's pissed, as he should be. The decision the Twins made had absolutely nothing to do with anything other than gaining an extra year of control. 

 

 

And Buxton's play put him squarely in a place where they could. As others have pointed out. He's been 50 shades of awful over the last 3 seasons minus a couple months in 2017. The potential is there. The results have been, to put it nicely, insufficient. 

 

I understand him being upset, but if he's not looking in the mirror at this one, there's a much bigger problem. As it is, he made super 2 status b/c he was not sent to AAA even though he deserved it. The team has been far more patient with him than they should have been. 

[Doctor Wu]

 

 

I've got to say, though. I loved that video. Buxton actually broke the boring cookie cutter mold and said what he thought. Actually really respected that response. Sounds to me like he believes in himself. That is good to hear. Buxton says he has an "edge" to him after that? Great. Let' me see it.

 

Show me what you're all about, Buck. I'll root for you. 

 

I think there is justification for both sides of the argument, as to whether Buxton "deserved" to be called up late last year or not. But I love the OP's comments at the end. I also found that sort of blunt speaking and honesty very refreshing. And like others have said, I really hope this has lit a fire inside Buxton and will make him a better player.

[Doctor Wu]

 

He hit well for 250 at bats in 2017. Brant Alyea and Chris Colabello hit really good for a while, too

 

We can look back on those 250 at bats and accenuate that or we can erase them and focus on the over 700 other at bats.  Subtract out those two months where he had a clue at the end of '17 and what are his career stats?  THAT is a frightening thought.

 

I prefer to look at the whole picture and for now I am not liking what I see

Chris Colabello! Another one of those "what could have been" stories.

[Doctor Wu]

 

See, this is my problem though, people want to cherry pick segments of his time to make him look better.  And they also like to use the whole sample to make him look better.  The truth is that the Twins have invested 600 PAs in him in which he was a really awful player. 

 

Now, I admit my way of breaking it down has limitations too, but the point is a valid one IMO: he has been mostly bad in his time with the big league club.  Most of the games we have penciled him in he has been well below average.  He's just had some absolutely amazing stretches that have helped make the bottom line look a little better.  

 

That in no way makes me want to give up on him.  Quite the contrary, I still believe in him, but I've accepted that my belief in him is mostly unsupported by the facts and driven more by hope and the abundant talent the man has.  The facts say he's closer to Billy Hamilton than Mike Trout.

Ouch, I hope that's not the eventual outcome. But I fear the likelihood of that becoming reality is all too possible.

[killertwinfan]

In the beginning I appreciated Buxton's comments about not being called up.  I understand both sides. The FO feels that he has not delivered the promise that comes with a top flight prospect.  And from his perspective he fought through difficult circumstances (some of his doing and some not) to earn the call up.  My belief was that this was positive tension from both sides that should work towards better results from him and better usage, management, etc from the Twins.  

 

But this statement??? Self entitled Diva.  Imagine that from a pro athlete. I can respectfully answer your question Mr. Buxton.   I think the Twins liked your late season performance too.  However, they want you to be more consistent, from the beginning to the end of the season.  

 

 

 

https://www.twinkietown.com/2018/12/13/18138350/mlb-minnesota-twins-byron-buxton-miguel-sano-rocco-baldelli-fortnite-metrodome-us-bank-home-plate

 

 

[markos]

 

Offense is measured without subjective data.  A few less HR and doubles per at bat, more K%   You did not explain the difference in Buxton's defense. You can't.

The Statcast defensive metrics use the hang time of the ball and the distance that the defender needs to travel to determine the likelihood that the ball will be turned into an out. It is anything but subjective. The reason Buxton was better in 2017 is because he converted a significantly higher percentage of the low-likelihood plays than he did in 2016.

[wsnydes]

I guess that I don't see much to get bent out of shape about.

 

That said, this FO has already demonstrated that communication isn't necessarily their strong suit. And if that's Buxton's true feelings, then perhaps he should ask and find out.

 

However, the media is not the place to verbalize that question.

[NapoleonComplex]

I wouldn't know what my employer wants from me either if I dealt with everything Byron has with the Twins coaching staff and Front Office. Frankly I'm glad he is becoming more vocal about his frustrations. To me that's a sign of a leader forming. 

[yarnivek1972]

It is worth noting that one repurcussion of not calling up Buxton was that the Twins only had 2-3 healthy position players on their bench for the final week or so of the season. Meanwhile, every other team had like 9.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Diva? That is the last word I would use to describe Byron Buxton. There's loads of mixed signals coming from the media and Falvey regarding Buxton., I can't blame Buxton for being bitter or confused. 

 

If there are questions about his attitude, look to where he was - at Gillette Children's hospital in MN during the offseason.

 

Falvey has said that he really values Buxton, but did he activate Buxton in September, or send him home?

 

Actions speak louder than words. 

[RatherBeGolfing]

Byron Buxton is quiet, reserved, doesn't say anything: "I wish he would show some more fire"

 

Byron Buxton says something and shows some emotion: "Whoa, check your attitude you diva"

[AceWrigley]

Buck is a world class athlete. Last year was a disaster. I'd just let him play. Hire Devon White to teach him how to navigate outfield walls without sacrificing his aggressiveness. Stick him at the bottom of the order and leave him alone. I think that just staying healthy, putting in the work and playing everyday will take care of itself.

[dbminn]

 

Buck is a world class athlete. Last year was a disaster. I'd just let him play. Hire Devon White to teach him how to navigate outfield walls without sacrificing his aggressiveness. Stick him at the bottom of the order and leave him alone. I think that just staying healthy, putting in the work and playing everyday will take care of itself.

 

Well said.

[gunnarthor]

Not sure what comment you think makes him a diva or need of attitude adjustment. From the article. 

 

“Pissed? Yes,” Buxton said. “I ain’t sugar-coating nothing, simple as that.” (Honesty from a player)

 

“It’s business, they did what they did, I do what I do,” he said. “At the end of the day, I’m still going to keep playing hard, still want to play in Minnesota, still want to play beside my teammates. That’s all that matters.”  (God, no. He might play hard for us and wants to play in MN. What a freaking diva).

 

Buxton said being notified of the decision “kind of didn’t go over well” but added that he and the team have “turned the page.” (Good)

 

“I have no idea what they want now. I stayed in Triple-A for four months. What do you expect? What can you want?” Buxton said he expects to be at TwinsFest Jan. 25-17 but added, “I won’t be as quiet as I have been.” (Nothing wrong with that. Sounds like he's unsure of how he fits in the Twins plans)

 

Asked if he was healthy enough to be recalled before September, he said, “Apparently to them I wasn’t, so I’ll leave it at that, too. Everybody else saw that I was playing every day, but I’m going to leave it at that.” (His health was the excuse the Twins used to not call him up).

 

Buxton said he expect to have to win the center field job back. “That’s how I look at it,” he said. “I didn’t finish the year here.” (Going into ST thinking he has to fight for the starting job. What a diva).

 

 

Honestly, nothing in that article bothered me. It seems clear that the FO has bungled another relationship. This article didn't mention it but Molly said last year that he didn't think Buxton was promised the starting CF job back next ST and Buxton surely read that. Sounds like the FO hasn't done much in regard to patching up the relationship. I'm surprised our new manager hasn't met him face to face yet but there might be legit reasons why that hasn't happened. Buxton himself sounds like he's eager to prove the team wrong for sending him home early. That seems like a good attitude to me.