Buxton: "Pissed" at Twins for No Call-Up Decision in 9/2018

[markos]

 

Can we stop referring to 14 games in AAA like the dude was chasing down Mike Trout?  We've seen brief windows of brilliance before, this move (IMO) was done to permanently change his approach to being a big leaguer.

 

So far, mission accomplished.  Now we can only hope he actually takes off so we don't have to play "put the lipstick on the pig" about 14 minor league games.

The 14 AAA games are not brought up as evidence that he achieved some new stratosphere of performance; it is evidence that he was back to good health. I guess opinions vary here, but I'm still perfectly willing to say that Buxton, when healthy, is at least an average big league player. Yes, the peaks and valleys are sharp, and his overall performance is less than I had expected. But we have almost two seasons - over 230 games - that show that. The idea that 100 injury-riddled PAs in 2018 erased all that and he's now below Johnny Field on the depth chart is crazy to me.

 

In your opinion, what would constitute "success" as far as Buxton's performance going forward? If he settles in as, say, Jackie Bradley Jr or Addison Russell, would you say that the front office's decision worked?

[markos]

 

That's just it. He got for 2 weeks in the minors. He was pretty pedestrian in AAA prior to that.

But his overall AAA OPS last year was .790-ish, which for reference was way better than Jake Cave last year. And on par with Jorge Polanco's career AAA numbers. 

[bobs]

...If nothing else, he should be able to claim he is 100% healthy coming to ST...so that won't be an excuse.

[Nick Nelson]

It sounds like Buxton is fired up, and feels as though he'll need to earn his starting job back next year.

 

It sounds like the Twins still fully view Buxton as their starting center fielder, despite the mess of 2018.

 

I think those are both good things.

[Major League Ready]

 

You're right that it is not comparable so not really relevant. Buxton was paid 6m b/c of his draft status and that money should have no impact at all on how the Twins treated him last year.

 He was paid a very large sum of money because of the increased promise of performance. If we are making an analogy this is parallel to normal jobs, correct? Signing bonuses have been common in the industry I work and I know that more is expected out of the employees hired with a substantial signing bonus. Obviously, it's not $6M but the concept is the same. 

 

This is also why I compared Adrianza. Nobody would be defending him if he were demoted or even cut. When does the special treatment for the promise of performance end. He has sucked. You want respect, earn it. This is not high school or the minor leagues. At the MLB level he has been no better than Adrianza. 

 

Their real mistake was keeping him at the ML level for as long as they did while he was failing. Had they not given him special treatment, it would not have come down to a couple weeks in Sept making the difference in service time.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I would make sure he can recognize pitches and control his at bats.

So how does sending him home for a month help toward this goal? You could have parked him on the bench in Minnesota if you wanted him to work with coaches but not get exposed in MLB games right away again.

[gunnarthor]

 

 He was paid a very large sum of money because of the increased promise of performance. If we are making an analogy this is parallel to normal jobs, correct? Signing bonuses have been common in the industry I work and I know that more is expected out of the employees hired with a substantial signing bonus. Obviously, it's not $6M but the concept is the same. 

 

This is also why I compared Adrianza. Nobody would be defending him if he were demoted or even cut. When does the special treatment for the promise of performance end. He has sucked. You want respect, earn it. This is not high school or the minor leagues. At the MLB level he has been no better than Adrianza. 

 

Their real mistake was keeping him at the ML level for as long as they did while he was failing. Had they not given him special treatment, it would not have come down to a couple weeks in Sept making the difference in service time.

He earned the 6m when he got it. That's over and has no bearing.

 

That he is being treated differently than Adrianza is true. A nothing player like him (or Johnny Field) would've been promoted instead of being sent home to get the extra service time.

 

The other argument is he has to earn it. Well, as noted, he played in 15 games after mid-July (and played well). The team could've let him continue to get at-bats but decided not to for extra service time. (If the ML team had been in contention, he would've been promoted). it's not possible to square the idea that he needed to both prove it and then ignore that the Twins didn't give him time to prove it. If he was playing hurt in Sept, as the Twins allege, people should be fired. But of course he wasn't hurt, it was just an excuse for service time manipulation. 

 

2017 was a broken year for Buxton. He played in 11 games and then sat for 10 days. He played one game and was put on the DL for nearly three weeks. He came back to the majors for 17 games (almost certainly not healthy).  He was then put on the DL for another three weeks. He then played in 19 games before sitting "day-to-day" for 4 games. He got 1 more at-bat and was put back on the DL for two more weeks. He came back and got to play in 15 games before the Twins sent him home. 

 

He had less than 250 PA at all levels last year.

[yarnivek1972]

In 2018, Buxton had 94 ABs. There were 458 MLB players who had a minimum of 90 ABs. Out of those 458 players, Buxton ranked 457th in OPS. Players get demoted all the time for poor performance. I can’t think of a better justification than this.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=90&type=1&season=2018&month=0&season1=2018&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=10,d&page=16_30

I can’t believe there was someone lower. 90 at bats could almost be a really good NL pitcher though.

[markos]

 

 He was paid a very large sum of money because of the increased promise of performance. If we are making an analogy this is parallel to normal jobs, correct? Signing bonuses have been common in the industry I work and I know that more is expected out of the employees hired with a substantial signing bonus. Obviously, it's not $6M but the concept is the same. 

 

This is also why I compared Adrianza. Nobody would be defending him if he were demoted or even cut. When does the special treatment for the promise of performance end. He has sucked. You want respect, earn it. This is not high school or the minor leagues. At the MLB level he has been no better than Adrianza. 

 

Their real mistake was keeping him at the ML level for as long as they did while he was failing. Had they not given him special treatment, it would not have come down to a couple weeks in Sept making the difference in service time.

Going off your business world example, this is how I would describe what happened to Buxton:

Company hires a up-and-coming sales guy, enticing him with a large signing bonus.

Sales guy doesn't quite meet the lofty expectations, but is still above average for the industry and profitable for the company.

Sales guy gets in a serious car accident. Takes a few weeks off off. Tries coming back early, but isn't effective due to lingering head aches. His clients are temporary split to others in the company. He takes a leave of absence, then slowly works back to full time. Clients are gradually given back to him.

At the point he is ready to go back to full time, company decides not to give him all his clients back until after the fiscal year (which is a month away) because he is too close to a sales threshold that would require them to pay him a bonus.

[Pardon My Dinger]

I've seen almost nobody claim that.

Unfair? I guess not. But, it’s a pretty raw deal, and the fact is that millennial players/people in general don’t handle stuff like this the way someone may have ten years ago.

[Riverbrian]

He was paid a very large sum of money because of the increased promise of performance. If we are making an analogy this is parallel to normal jobs, correct? Signing bonuses have been common in the industry I work and I know that more is expected out of the employees hired with a substantial signing bonus. Obviously, it's not $6M but the concept is the same.

 

This is also why I compared Adrianza. Nobody would be defending him if he were demoted or even cut. When does the special treatment for the promise of performance end. He has sucked. You want respect, earn it. This is not high school or the minor leagues. At the MLB level he has been no better than Adrianza.

 

Their real mistake was keeping him at the ML level for as long as they did while he was failing. Had they not given him special treatment, it would not have come down to a couple weeks in Sept making the difference in service time.

Bingo

 

Nearly 3 years of service time well over 1,000 AB’s and we are still talking potential or half a season of showing it or defensive talent. He should have been in Rochester more frequently than he has been and then we wouldn’t be talking about this September service time issue.

 

Your post is exactly right.

[ewen21]

I don't like Buxton carrying this out so far.  Watching that interview he came off like a primadonna to me and I am kind of shocked and disappointed.  He already showed his dispieasure by having that little tantrum and heading home.  He deserves a reprimand for that if you ask me.  Yet here we are months later he's still emotionally rocked by it?   He needs to get over it.  

 

Be a pro.  Be accountable.  Take ownership.

 

 

[ewen21]

 

 He was paid a very large sum of money because of the increased promise of performance. If we are making an analogy this is parallel to normal jobs, correct? Signing bonuses have been common in the industry I work and I know that more is expected out of the employees hired with a substantial signing bonus. Obviously, it's not $6M but the concept is the same. 

 

This is also why I compared Adrianza. Nobody would be defending him if he were demoted or even cut. When does the special treatment for the promise of performance end. He has sucked. You want respect, earn it. This is not high school or the minor leagues. At the MLB level he has been no better than Adrianza. 

 

Their real mistake was keeping him at the ML level for as long as they did while he was failing. Had they not given him special treatment, it would not have come down to a couple weeks in Sept making the difference in service time.

 

Bravo.  I am so sick and tired of certain players operating on a level someplace beyond reproach.  I don't want to hear about how the Twins messed him up.  He has been given nothing but support and opportunities left and right.  Now he wants to say he's "not gonna sugarcoat nothin"????

 

His whole existance with this team has been sugarcoated.  Time to take off the kid gloves.  If he can't hit over .200 in spring training then Cave starts.  Let him throw another tantrum if he wants.  I thought this guy was supposed to be a high character guy and real humble?  Maybe he was but his actions tell me otherwise.

[Jacksson]

Twins "PISSED" at Buxton for his inability to stay on the field (constant injuries) and his inability to advance his hitting skills. No call up = Message Sent. Probably also means he bolts when he becomes a free agent.

[TheLeviathan]

 

The 14 AAA games are not brought up as evidence that he achieved some new stratosphere of performance; it is evidence that he was back to good health. I guess opinions vary here, but I'm still perfectly willing to say that Buxton, when healthy, is at least an average big league player. Yes, the peaks and valleys are sharp, and his overall performance is less than I had expected. But we have almost two seasons - over 230 games - that show that. The idea that 100 injury-riddled PAs in 2018 erased all that and he's now below Johnny Field on the depth chart is crazy to me.

 

In your opinion, what would constitute "success" as far as Buxton's performance going forward? If he settles in as, say, Jackie Bradley Jr or Addison Russell, would you say that the front office's decision worked?

 

I don't think that first sentence is true though.  Those 14 games have been phrased as "getting hot"  and that he "earned" his way back.  Byron Buxton's early 2018 may have been injury riddled, but there were major red flags in ST about his approach as well.  He was having some absolutely awful at-bats and that approach carried into the regular season even before the injury.

 

Now, he's a slow starter so that could be as simple as that, but one look back at some of those early game logs of 2018 (pre injury) are horrifying.  

 

And lastly, (before I answer your question), I think the Twins did this to light a fire under Buxton and protect himself from further injury.  For all intents and purposes they hit the hard reset button on a wasted season.

 

If he ends up as Addison Russell I'd be happy with that.  His ceiling is high, but no matter how good his defense is he can't be a .650 OPS player and play regularly.  And he has yet to prove to me he's more than that.  (In fact, more often than not, he's a significantly worse player than .650!)

[Otto von Ballpark]

He already showed his dispieasure by having that little tantrum and heading home. He deserves a reprimand for that if you ask me.

As far as I remember, Buxton had permission from the team to go home early from Rochester.

[TheLeviathan]

 

 

Sales guy doesn't quite meet the lofty expectations, but is still above average for the industry and profitable for the company.

 

I don't believe this is accurate.  Buxton has had long stretches where he has absolutely killed the Twins at the plate.  He's had some good stretches too, but people are way too quick to look at the highlights and explain away the low-lights.

 

I prefer we hope for the highlights and be realists about the lowlights.  He's often been a bad player for this team.  No matter what his WAR says, you can't be that putrid at the plate and a positive contributor overall to the team.

[ewen21]

Agreed, Leviathan.  

 

In addition to what you said, how long do we write off years for this guy?  If you can't stay healthy or hit what in the hell are we supposed to do with the guy?  He has to shut up and let it go.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Agreed, Leviathan.  

 

In addition to what you said, how long do we write off years for this guy?  If you can't stay healthy or hit what in the hell are we supposed to do with the guy?  He has to shut up and let it go.

 

I wonder why people are so worried he won't sign an extension with us.  At this point, the Twins aren't the ones who should want that anyway.

 

I hope Buxton earns his way to putting the Twins in a position to grovel for him to stay.  But right now, he's on the Billy Hamilton path.

[Number3]

General comment about the service time issue. So the same folks that pay journeyman pitchers multi year multi $10mil contracts and get burned repeatedly, sign the Canos and Mauers and many more to multi year multi $10mil contracts and get burned repeatedly or extending a managers contract and then firing him after the first year of the extension are worried about service time for Byron Buxton as an example that they know how to run a major league baseball team? Give me a f'n break. No way was that good for Buxton's development as a baseball player = no way was that good for the Minnesota Twins.

[Otto von Ballpark]

And lastly, (before I answer your question), I think the Twins did this to light a fire under Buxton and protect himself from further injury. For all intents and purposes they hit the hard reset button on a wasted season.

 

That's how I viewed the July 2nd option/demotion -- light a fire in the player, and let him get ample rest while trying to get healthy and back in the groove at AAA (which may not have been feasible on the MLB roster at the time, with a 3-4 man bench).

 

But once Sept. 1st rolls around, and rosters expand, while he's playing and hitting well at AAA, those reasons kind of go out the window, no? You can tell him he has to earn his starting job back, fine, you can even call up guys to compete with him (and sign more such guys in the offseason) -- but sending him home at that point is more like artificially handicapping him in that goal too.

[gunnarthor]

 

I don't believe this is accurate.  Buxton has had long stretches where he has absolutely killed the Twins at the plate.  He's had some good stretches too, but people are way too quick to look at the highlights and explain away the low-lights.

 

I prefer we hope for the highlights and be realists about the lowlights.  He's often been a bad player for this team.  No matter what his WAR says, you can't be that putrid at the plate and a positive contributor overall to the team.

None of this is actually true though. It's the narrative that's sticking but the reality is that Buxton's slow start in April of 2017 killed his season numbers. He adjusted and hit well, league adjusted to him, it took him a couple weeks and he adjusted back. 

[markos]

 

I don't think that first sentence is true though.  Those 14 games have been phrased as "getting hot"  and that he "earned" his way back.  Byron Buxton's early 2018 may have been injury riddled, but there were major red flags in ST about his approach as well.  He was having some absolutely awful at-bats and that approach carried into the regular season even before the injury.

 

Now, he's a slow starter so that could be as simple as that, but one look back at some of those early game logs of 2018 (pre injury) are horrifying.  

 

And lastly, (before I answer your question), I think the Twins did this to light a fire under Buxton and protect himself from further injury.  For all intents and purposes they hit the hard reset button on a wasted season.

 

If he ends up as Addison Russell I'd be happy with that.  His ceiling is high, but no matter how good his defense is he can't be a .650 OPS player and play regularly.  And he has yet to prove to me he's more than that.  (In fact, more often than not, he's a significantly worse player than .650!)

Between 2016 and 2017 combined, Addison Russell's OPS+ was 90. Buxton's was 92. Buxton had more bWAR and identical fWAR over that stretch as well despite Russell having 100 more PAs. Buxton was essentially Addison Russell for two straight seasons prior to his injury-riddled 2018.

[TheLeviathan]

 

None of this is actually true though. It's the narrative that's sticking but the reality is that Buxton's slow start in April of 2017 killed his season numbers. He adjusted and hit well, league adjusted to him, it took him a couple weeks and he adjusted back. 

 

It is not only true, it's demonstrably true.  He is a career .650 OPS player who has spent FAR more months being an awful hitter than a even an average one.  This is a fact. 

 

Your posts here are largely a narrative.  A wishful thinking one for a player you WANT to be successful.  I share your hope and desire (you should've seen where I drafted him in fantasy baseball last year!) but I'm not letting it cloud reality. 

 

I'd like you to consider how much it is actually clouding yours.  He has mostly been a very bad hitter for us in his first 1,000 at bats.  that needs to change.

[TheLeviathan]

 

But once Sept. 1st rolls around, and rosters expand, while he's playing and hitting well at AAA, those reasons kind of go out the window, no? You can tell him he has to earn his starting job back, fine, you can even call up guys to compete with him (and sign more such guys in the offseason) -- but sending him home at that point is more like artificially handicapping him in that goal too.

 

I guess we'll find out how much the decision motivates or handicaps him.  Ultimately, only time is going to tell. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Between 2016 and 2017 combined, Addison Russell's OPS+ was 90. Buxton's was 92. Buxton had more bWAR and identical fWAR over that stretch as well despite Russell having 100 more PAs. Buxton was essentially Addison Russell for two straight seasons prior to his injury-riddled 2018.

 

Oh, I'm dumb.  I was thinking Baez....why I have no idea.  

 

At this point I'd be happy with what the Rays have averaged over the last three years with Kevin Keirmaier.  

[Major League Ready]

 

I doubt it's motivation. The young man plays hard. I think the league just figured out he can't hit a breaking ball and they are going to kill him with breaking balls until he improves. Sano suffers from the same problem. 

[KirbyDome89]

Do we believe that Buxton was unaware of his struggles? I really doubt the Twins needed to damage that relationship for him to realize his play has to improve, or to jump start a work ethic that by all accounts is fantastic. 

 

The "he didn't earn/deserve," a call up bit went out the window when Field made the expanded roster.

 

The "rest for his health," bit was crossed out after he played for weeks at AAA while healthy. 

 

They f***** him. Full stop. He's pissed, as he should be. The decision the Twins made had absolutely nothing to do with anything other than gaining an extra year of control. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

I doubt it's motivation. The young man plays hard. I think the league just figured out he can't hit a breaking ball and they are going to kill him with breaking balls until he improves. Sano suffers from the same problem. 

 

Lighting a fire may not be to alter motivation, it might help him worry less about every at-bat and focus more on larger goals.  Buxton seems to over-think at the plate and his approach suffers from AB to AB.

 

This sort of kick may give him direction towards the macro vision of his success rather than over-scrutinizing every AB.

[ewen21]

 

Do we believe that Buxton was unaware of his struggles? I really doubt the Twins needed to damage that relationship for him to realize his play has to improve, or to jump start a work ethic that by all accounts is fantastic. 

 

The "he didn't earn/deserve," a call up bit went out the window when Field made the expanded roster.

 

The "rest for his health," bit was crossed out after he played for weeks at AAA while healthy. 

 

They f***** him. Full stop. He's pissed, as he should be. The decision the Twins made had absolutely nothing to do with anything other than gaining an extra year of control. 

At this point, it's just a lot of talk.  He needs to put his big boy pants on and shake it off.

 

Don't make it sound like last year "happened to him because the Twins screwed him".  He flat out needs to shut up about it now and he better start hitting.