Buxton: "Pissed" at Twins for No Call-Up Decision in 9/2018

[nicksaviking]

*****Moderator Note*******

 

I've merged the two Byron Buxton is pissed threads.

[TheLeviathan]

Yeah, I don't see how anyone can be upset that Byron is upset.  Moping?  Now that's a problem.  Fired up?  Good.

 

Calling him a diva is ridiculous.  Telling him to shut up and play is also ridiculous.

 

Be happy he's fired up and hope it translates into something more than we've seen so far.

[Dman]

 

Not sure what comment you think makes him a diva or need of attitude adjustment. From the article. 

 

“Pissed? Yes,” Buxton said. “I ain’t sugar-coating nothing, simple as that.” (Honesty from a player)

 

“It’s business, they did what they did, I do what I do,” he said. “At the end of the day, I’m still going to keep playing hard, still want to play in Minnesota, still want to play beside my teammates. That’s all that matters.”  (God, no. He might play hard for us and wants to play in MN. What a freaking diva).

 

Buxton said being notified of the decision “kind of didn’t go over well” but added that he and the team have “turned the page.” (Good)

 

“I have no idea what they want now. I stayed in Triple-A for four months. What do you expect? What can you want?” Buxton said he expects to be at TwinsFest Jan. 25-17 but added, “I won’t be as quiet as I have been.” (Nothing wrong with that. Sounds like he's unsure of how he fits in the Twins plans)

 

Asked if he was healthy enough to be recalled before September, he said, “Apparently to them I wasn’t, so I’ll leave it at that, too. Everybody else saw that I was playing every day, but I’m going to leave it at that.” (His health was the excuse the Twins used to not call him up).

 

Buxton said he expect to have to win the center field job back. “That’s how I look at it,” he said. “I didn’t finish the year here.” (Going into ST thinking he has to fight for the starting job. What a diva).

 

 

Honestly, nothing in that article bothered me. It seems clear that the FO has bungled another relationship. This article didn't mention it but Molly said last year that he didn't think Buxton was promised the starting CF job back next ST and Buxton surely read that. Sounds like the FO hasn't done much in regard to patching up the relationship. I'm surprised our new manager hasn't met him face to face yet but there might be legit reasons why that hasn't happened. Buxton himself sounds like he's eager to prove the team wrong for sending him home early. That seems like a good attitude to me.

 

The one thing that bothers me in his statement is:

 

Asked if he was healthy enough to be recalled before September, he said, “Apparently to them I wasn’t, so I’ll leave it at that, too. Everybody else saw that I was playing every day, but I’m going to leave it at that.” (His health was the excuse the Twins used to not call him up).

 

Maybe the Twins can't directly say they didn't call him up because of the service time issue but his statement there makes it pretty clear that is what the Twins did.  Not sure I like how that played out and if I was the player I would never sign an extension with a team that did that to me.  That being said I would still play my heart out for four years because that is the only way to get that big payday.  Time supposedly heals all wounds. I guess time will tell if he gets completely over this or not.

 

I don't see anything in any of his statements that make me think he is a primadonna.  Just someone trying to be real about what happened to him at the end of the year.  He has to take some responsibility for the way things turned out and it looks like he has but in my mind the Twins manipulated his service time to gain an extra year.  They also need to work on their communication with players because he shouldn't be in the dark about where he stands going into the season.

 

There is work that needs to be done on both sides.

[Mike Sixel]

I'm not sure what the FO could say to me when they took a year of FA away from me to make me happy, other than, "here is a boat load of money."

[Battle ur tail off]

I already said Buxton has work to do if he wants to be able to say these types of things and needs to play better in order to have any kind of pull within the organization. To me, he hasn't really deserved to be on the major league roster at all with the way he has hit the ball.

 

That said, this is just another example of the Twins being CHEAP and it will probably bite them in the butt, IF Buxton turns out to be any kind of ballplayer. They need to learn how to communicate with guys, or we will keep hearing stories like this. Don't want things to sour throughout the team and make this a place where no one wants to play because of the front office and ownership "cheapness". 

 

 

[Dman]

 

I'm not sure what the FO could say to me when they took a year of FA away from me to make me happy, other than, "here is a boat load of money."

 

It would be a tough conversation to be sure but I guess if it were me I would state that the organization started the year expecting him to be player he was at the end of 2017.  That even though he struggled to start the year they were behind him and gave him the playing time he needed to be successful. 

 

After being injured, not sure how that all went down but he obviously needed time to heal.  With his poor approach at the plate and not being able to play at the same level after the injury we had to send him down to try and get plate discipline and swing back. BY the time it looked like you might be ready join the team again the year had been lost and we didn't want to risk another injury or lose a year of service time as you are an extremely important part of this teams future.

 

We are committed to helping you become the best player you can be and we have confidence that in time you will become an elite player.  No one expected things to work out the way they did but we made the best decisions we could to help the team now and in the future. Unfortunately part of helping the team has come somewhat at your expense.

 

Granted that doesn't help the pain of not getting to FA earlier but if he plays well his arb awards will still be good and he has to realize he hasn't been that great of a player just yet.  If he had performed during the season not gotten hurt he would have gained that service time.  HE didn't perform and they chose to deny him the chance the last month as they had little incentive to play him.

 

That is how I would approach it. Not sure if that would make the situation better or worse but at the end at least he should know why the decisions were made.  In a lot of ways things just went too wrong for him to gain that time unless the Twins were really willing to help him gain the time at the end of the season and they weren't.

[Mike Sixel]

It would be a tough conversation to be sure but I guess if it were me I would state that the organization started the year expecting him to be player he was at the end of 2017. That even though he struggled to start the year they were behind him and gave him the playing time he needed to be successful.

 

After being injured, not sure how that all went down but he obviously needed time to heal. With his poor approach at the plate and not being able to play at the same level after the injury we had to send him down to try and get plate discipline and swing back. BY the time it looked like you might be ready join the team again the year had been lost and we didn't want to risk another injury or lose a year of service time as you are an extremely important part of this teams future.

 

We are committed to helping you become the best player you can be and we have confidence that in time you will become an elite player. No one expected things to work out the way they did but we made the best decisions we could to help the team now and in the future. Unfortunately part of helping the team has come somewhat at your expense.

 

Granted that doesn't help the pain of not getting to FA earlier but if he plays well his arb awards will still be good and he has to realize he hasn't been that great of a player just yet. If he had performed during the season not gotten hurt he would have gained that service time. HE didn't perform and they chose to deny him the chance the last month as they had little incentive to play him.

 

That is how I would approach it. Not sure if that would make the situation better or worse but at the end at least he should know why the decisions were made. In a lot of ways things just went too wrong for him to gain that time unless the Twins were really willing to help him gain the time at the end of the season and they weren't.

Agreed on all this.

[KirbyDome89]

 

how does one work on hitting big league curveballs at home in September?

Rest cures all I'm told.

[KirbyDome89]

 

 

 

 

 

And Buxton's play put him squarely in a place where they could. As others have pointed out. He's been 50 shades of awful over the last 3 seasons minus a couple months in 2017. The potential is there. The results have been, to put it nicely, insufficient. 

 

I understand him being upset, but if he's not looking in the mirror at this one, there's a much bigger problem. As it is, he made super 2 status b/c he was not sent to AAA even though he deserved it. The team has been far more patient with him than they should have been. 

 

You don't think the Twins mishandled his injury early in the year and put themselves in a position to keep him down? 

 

Look, nobody is arguing that Buxton's time at the Major League level has been anything short of disappointing. I've voiced my own concerns over his production and health in other threads. He played 11 healthy games last season. That's the ultimate SSS.  I have a hard time saying he did this to himself, especially after the way he finished in 17'. I can acknowledge that he's gone through stretches of poor play and at the same time not use that to justify what the team took from him. 

[DrNeau]

I loved how the Falvey Twins

[yarnivek1972]

I loved how the Falvey Twins

[DrNeau]

Which kinda should make Jake Cave and/or Max Kepler pissed.

Yeah, I don’t hear either of them sounding off to the media about how they are pissed.

[ewen21]

Pissed or not, Falvey's fault or not.....let's not lose the forest for the trees with this one.

 

Buxton has been a MAJOR disappointment.  I took nothing from him saying he "wants to end his career as a Twin" because he doesn't get to make that decision if he doesn't do a whole lot better.

THis is his last chance as far as I am concerned.  If he is hitting .150 at the end of April again I would be tempted to cut bait right then and there.

[yarnivek1972]

Buxton’s career might very well end as a Twin. Though not in the way he intends.

[AlwaysinModeration]

The facts say he's closer to Billy Hamilton than Mike Trout.

I’d say he’s closer to Aaron Hicks. Both were five-tool athletic high school outfielders drafted by the Twins in the first round, who were high on prospect lists.

 

In Hicks’ first four seasons in the show, age 23-26, he posted three seasons on OPS’ in the 600s, including his age 26 season with the Yankees, after the Twins gave up on him and traded him for a marginal catcher who is no longer with the organization. In the last two years, Hicks has posted 800+ OPS each year, hitting 15 and 27 home runs respectively.

 

In his first four seasons in the bigs, from age 21-24, Buxton has posted two seasons of OPS over 700, one in the 600s, and then last year (I won’t mention). He’s also already won a gold glove / platinum glove, and generally considered he best CF in the game. He is 25 this year, with two full seasons before he hits his prime. (And the Twins have him under team control for two of his three prime years, which are generally age 27-29). Incidentally, he also has 29 consecutive stolen bases, more than halfway to the MLB record.

 

As for anyone arguing that the Twins should pull the plug on Buxton in April, I don’t even know where to start. (Perhaps at Cooperstown at David Ortiz’ HOF induction ceremony in a few years?)

[TheLeviathan]

 

I’d say he’s closer to Aaron Hicks. Both were five-tool athletic high school outfielders drafted by the Twins in the first round, who were high on prospect lists.
 

 

Sure, so far his performance mirrors that of Hicks.  And we can hope that continues, but if it doesn't he will be Billy Hamilton.  In other words, a player who does provide defensive value and speed, but who just can't make enough contact to be anything other than a marginal big leaguer at best.  

[Don Walcott]

I've learned a lot reading through this thread.

 

First, Buxton is a terrible baseball player who doesn't deserve a spot on the Twins roster.

 

Second, the front office did a very smart thing by gaining an extra year of control over a terrible baseball player who doesn't deserve a spot on the Twins roster.

 

Third, if Buxton has a problem with it, he should just shut up. If he does talk about it, he's a diva.

 

Fourth, if Buxton does play well in 2019, it's probably because of the motivational prowess of our FO, who somehow knew how to press the right buttons while they ****ed him over.

[beckmt]

Having a hard time understanding how posters here feel. 

How would you feel or the league if Buxton announced 'I am going to sign with Atlanta and play close to home when I become a free agent'

So if he becomes a decent player, he has fixed the Twins by cutting his market value or letting teams know if they trade for him, they will have to overpay to sign him.  This is the treatment that maybe the Twins deserve after treating him this way.

[DrNeau]

 

Pissed or not, Falvey's fault or not.....let's not lose the forest for the trees with this one.

 

Buxton has been a MAJOR disappointment.  I took nothing from him saying he "wants to end his career as a Twin" because he doesn't get to make that decision if he doesn't do a whole lot better.

THis is his last chance as far as I am concerned.  If he is hitting .150 at the end of April again I would be tempted to cut bait right then and there.

 

Yeah, but I guess it's already been decided by Falvey that he's starting. What the heck. Nice message to send to Kepler/Cave. Also, I read Baldelli is flying to personally meet with Sano & Buxton. Is he meeting with anyone else? I haven't heard that. Lot of special treatment being afforded to Buxton this week. 

[beckmt]

Buxton is expected to be part of the future here.  May not totally make it, but have to give it a big chance.  Only have to look at Aaron Hicks to see what happens when you give up too early (not to forget David Ortiz).  

He could fail, players do all the time, but hard to see this happening that he becomes Billy Hamilton II.  Giving up too early is a good way to get yourself fired (or relieved of duties in the current time).

[old nurse]

 

The Statcast defensive metrics use the hang time of the ball and the distance that the defender needs to travel to determine the likelihood that the ball will be turned into an out. It is anything but subjective. The reason Buxton was better in 2017 is because he converted a significantly higher percentage of the low-likelihood plays than he did in 2016.

It is very important to catch the ball. How do they measure making the right throw, backing the plays correctly, runners not daring to advance?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Having a hard time understanding how posters here feel.

How would you feel or the league if Buxton announced 'I am going to sign with Atlanta and play close to home when I become a free agent'

So if he becomes a decent player, he has fixed the Twins by cutting his market value or letting teams know if they trade for him, they will have to overpay to sign him. This is the treatment that maybe the Twins deserve after treating him this way.

I have mixed feelings, but here goes:

 

Buxton has played poorly, and not hit near well enough to earn a starting CF role.

 

The FOs (plural) have mismanaged his service time terribly for 2+ seasons. That’s not Buxtons fault. September of 2018 he wasn’t hurt and needed to see big league pitching in order to develop. There was clear need for Buxton at the time.

 

The time to manage his service was 2016/2017 and earlier in 2018. He shouldn’t have been rushed back from injury, but should have been brought up for September. If Falvine and TR were managing Buxtons service appropriately he wouldn’t have service considerations at that point.

[Vanimal46]

Yeah, but I guess it's already been decided by Falvey that he's starting. What the heck. Nice message to send to Kepler/Cave. Also, I read Baldelli is flying to personally meet with Sano & Buxton. Is he meeting with anyone else? I haven't heard that. Lot of special treatment being afforded to Buxton this week.

Falvey and Levine have basically said they are waiting to make big moves until they figure out what they have in Buxton and Sano. So I'm not surprised both players are top priorities compared to other players. They're both a mess in their own ways.

[h2oface]

Buxton has not played poorly, he has just hit poorly, with brilliant hot streaks as well. Buxton is like no one else, no matter who one likes to compare him to. I wouldn't cut bait with him no matter what he does this year. But it is still time to put up or shut up for him. I'm betting he does, and right out of the gate this year.

 

I got no feelings about Sano. 

[rv78]

Could it be that both Buxton and Sano really aren't as good as anyone thinks they could/ should be? Just because you rake Minor league pitchers doesn't make you a lock for superstardom in the Majors. Buxton can probably run faster than anyone else in baseball. He hasn't proven much of anything else. Sano can probably hit a baseball just as far as anyone else in baseball. He hasn't proven much of anything else. I liken Buxton and Sano to 2 spoiled babies that think they deserve everything when they haven't earned anything.

 

Which Twins hitter will be the next Carew, or Oliva, or Puckett, or Killebrew, or Mauer. I don't think Buxton or Sano have the right head on their shoulders (at this time) to join them.

[Mike Sixel]

I would assume Sano is your starting 3B, and Buxton is your starting CF....why wouldn't you assume that right now? 

[ewen21]

 

Yeah, but I guess it's already been decided by Falvey that he's starting. What the heck. Nice message to send to Kepler/Cave. Also, I read Baldelli is flying to personally meet with Sano & Buxton. Is he meeting with anyone else? I haven't heard that. Lot of special treatment being afforded to Buxton this week. 

So long as this is encouraged we will be in trouble

 

Some players are above the fray.  That is what you're saying to the fans if Buxton is guaranteed an everydat spot!

[Mike Sixel]

So long as this is encouraged we will be in trouble

 

Some players are above the fray. That is what you're saying to the fans if Buxton is guaranteed an everydat spot!

As a fan, I'd want them to say he's the starting CF to start the year. The next two years rest on him and Sano. What do people want them to say? Because saying he has to earn it is not reality. Everyone knows he's the plan. Everyone.

[Twins33]

I’d say he’s closer to Aaron Hicks. Both were five-tool athletic high school outfielders drafted by the Twins in the first round, who were high on prospect lists.

Hicks could take a walk and struck out way less. Two things that Buxton needs to greatly improve. He's improved on his career numbers since he was first up, but it still needs a big jump. Right now, offensively, he's Tyler Austin but with only average power.

 

I'm not ready to give up on Buxton, I like him, but if anyone is Hicks than it's Kepler. And Kepler is actually better than the Twins version of Hicks.

[ewen21]

 

As a fan, I'd want them to say he's the starting CF to start the year. The next two years rest on him and Sano. What do people want them to say? Because saying he has to earn it is not reality. Everyone knows he's the plan. Everyone.

This is what you want?

 

I do not agree with this methodology.  This has nothing to do with merit, or achievement.  It has to do with the fact that he was a first round pick, was hyped unreasonably, hopes were pinned on him way too soon, reputations of baseball pundits and people in the organization who just can't accept what has happened.  And now we have a situation where a young player has a different set of rules than the rest of the young players.  Not good at all, in my opinion.

 

This isn't too say he has no chance and cannot turn things around.  Then again, seems to me it is just as likely if we give him all the rope in the world he'll be hitting .165 in May.  Everything seems to be all about making sure he doesn't feel pressure and that is futile and ridiculous.  There is a psychology to the game and especially hitting on the big stage.  Some guys, no matter the athletic talent, just cannot do it.  Only a small bunch can.  If the Twins are going to keep on insisting that his glove is so magical he doesn't need to hit his weight then they are digging themselves a big hole.

 

I want players making it based on merit.  We are not talking about a veteran player or some guy who is established.  We are talking about a guy who has been very shaky for most ot his four years with the team,  Two months of good hitting in 2017 is all we have to hang our hats on so no way would have made a statement saying the job was his.  No matter how mad he gets I would have not said a word about roster stuff.  Let him get mad at himself.  That is what I would rather see.  Rather than that he got mad at the organization.  While I get that, I expect him to look in the mirror and be more accountable if he is going to start pointing fingers.  He needs to start with himself and I have not seen that from him